|
The only way I can think of doing it is the gestalt rules from Unearthed Arcana, and I am not certain Hero Lab can handle that. Even if it can, it would be 3.5 and not Pathfinder.
Chad,
I had the same eye opening experience when I switched my 2nd Ed characters to 3rd edition. While at first I was highly annoyed I grew to love the balance the new Multiclassing rules came to bring (IMO).
Your best bet is to look for Prestige Classes that combine rogue and mage talents. Resign yourself to the fact that your NOT going to be as good as your 2nd Ed characters were since they in essence WERE twice their levels. A 12 Rogue and 12 Wizard was a 24th level character with terrible hit points.
That said though, you can get close or at the very least be workable in 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder.
Ideally you need to decide is the magic going to support your rogue-ing or is your rogue-ing going to support your magic. There is pretty much no way to have both equal any more so your going to need to decide what you want to do well.
One important question is what materials do you have access to? Are you converting 2nd ed characters into pure pathfinder or do you have any 3.0/3.5 materials/books you can draw from. 3.0/3.5 had several different prestige classes that might help you do what your trying to do.
|
1. Find the highest level the character has reached in any class. For example, Escolrande is an 8th-level fighter/9th-level wizard/9th-level thief. His highest level is 9.
2. Divide each level the character has achieved in any other class by three and round down. If the result rounds down to 0, record a 1 instead. For example, Escolrande’s remaining levels are 8 and 9; 8 ÷ 3 = 2.67, which rounds down to 2, and 9 ÷ 3 = 3.
3. Add the numbers you got in step 2 to the number you got in step 1. This equals the character’s level in the new edition of the D&D game. In Escolrande’s case, 9 + 2 + 3 = 14. 4. You can divide up the levels among classes any way you see fit. For example, Escolrande could become a 9th-level wizard/4th-level rogue/1st-level fighter, or an 8th-level wizard/3rd-level rogue/3rd-level fighter, or any other combination of wizard, rogue, and fighter levels that adds up to 14.
Looks like your wife has a 15th level character in 3rd Edition.
|
|
Hello all.
I have a question that I’m hoping someone here will understand and be able to help.
My wife and I used to play 2’nd edition AD&D and now I’ve been wanting to update her character to Pathfinder.
The problem I having is she’s a ‘multiclass’ Rogue/Wizard (level 12/11). Back in those days we used to half the experience between classes. Now it appears to be much different from what I’m used to and I can’t figure out how to add it to Hero Lab (or an excell character sheet so I can make sure my numbers are correct). If I add the 12 levels for rogue, and 11 levels for Wizard I’m of course ending up with a 23’rd level character.
Now I guess that’s not bad, but it’s not really what I’d like to have. Yes I want her to have her same spells/rogue skills, but not at the level 23. Is there a way I can input the levels (so I get her spells, rogue talents, etc.) without ending up with 200+ skill points, and just insane stats?
I pray this makes since and someone will get what I’m trying to do. She’s basically a 12’th level character, not a 23’rd level character.
Any help or advice is welcome and wanted!
Thanks in advance,
Chad
Hi,
The bad news is you won't be able to do a straight forward conversion.
The good news is you can get close to what you want with some compromises.
If I remember correctly, after 10th level, you needed a fixed amount of XP to level in 2e. So an 11th/12th multiclass character had about the same XP as a 14th single level character. With that in mind here a few options:
1) 7th rogue / 7th wizard, you get decent advancement in both classes but it's not near as close to the 2e version.
2) 3rd level rogue / 11th level Wizard or 11th Rogue / 3rd Wizard.
3) 3rd level Rogue / 3rd level Wizard, 8th level Arcane Trickster (or another rogue/wizard PrC
4) Play a bard
5) Other
That's about it.
The problem with prestige classes in this case, is that they fill a particular archetype, that may not be what you envisioned for the character or consistent with the way you have played it, thus the need for compromises.
You should first check the Conversion Manual PDF from WotC, which was created to convert characters from 2nd edition to 3rd.
Then make the adjustments from D&D3 to Pathfinder.
Note : I am not sure if this Conversion Manual is still available on WotC website nowadays.
If you can't find it, let me know, I can e-mail it to you.
If you have access to it, check the 'Complete Adventurer' book from 3.5 for the Daggerspell Mage Prestige Class. That is a decent Rogue/Mage combo prestige class which should be close to what you want for your wife's character.
If that is not exactly what you need it can be used as a decent basis to make a PrC of your own to do what you want.
|
|
If you don't want to go Gestalt, I'd recommend you convert the character as an Arcane Trickster with about the same "equivalent" levels. So, by my calculations, Rogue 3/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 8. (Or Rogue 4/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 8, if you want to get picky on the class levels. 8^)
WotC actually put out a "Conversion Guide" (can't find the link anymore) when 3rd Edition came out which, IIRC, said to take 2E multiclass characters and add one-third their lower level(s) to their higher level to determine their "total" level for converting. This works out to about the same total level as above, and using the "combo" prestige class, you get about the same abilities.
...majorly ninja'd. 8^)
A Rogue 12/Wizard 11 of D&D2 would become a 15th level character in D&D3 : 12 +11/3.
Then you can re-arrange the levels among the classes, like R8/W7, R9/W6, R10/W5...
WotC actually put out a "Conversion Guide" (can't find the link anymore) when 3rd Edition came out which, ...
D&D 2.0-3.0 Conversion Dowload from WotC
Google is easy to use!
I am nowhere near my 2nd edition books so I can't give exact numbers at this time, but here's how I would convert her:
1. Find her total XP. Yes, I know she was dividing it by two and leveling both classes separately in 2nd ed. So add it up to find the total.
2. Pick the class she "favors" the most. When she played that character, was she mostly a rogue with some wizard magic or was she more of a wizard who did a few roguish things now and then. If the was very balanced and didn't have a clear favored play style, then just ask her to pick one that she like the most - I would recommend wizard since they are the most "level-dependent" of the two classes.
3. Figure out what level she would have been in 2nd Ed. if she had her total XP applied to just that one class. This becomes her new character level in Pathfinder. Without my books, this is just a guess, but lets say she would have been a 14th level wizard if she had never multiclassed with rogue but still had exactly the same total XP.
4. Now to convert: We already have a "favored class" that we figured out in step 2 above. Decide what level she wants to be in that favored class. Assuming the numbers from my example hold true, she has 14 levels to "spend". If she still wants to be an 11th level wizard, then she can be a 3rd level rogue. Or she can split it down a bit, like wiz9/rog5, or even go 7/7, or whatever. Yes, that means she will lose some spells or, if she goes with 11/3, her rogue skills will be severely lacking compared to what she was in 2nd edition. This is pretty much unavoidable.
5. Build her from the ground up. It won't "convert" easily, so just figure out what she was at level 1, work out the details, then figure out level 2, level 3, etc., one level at a time. I recommend doing this together because so much has changed since 2nd edition that this will be like a whole new game system that she'll be learning from scratch, but she'll be learning it with a very powerful character - always much harder than starting a new game system at the beginning and learning it a little bit at a time, starting with beginning stuff and learning more complexity as you gain levels. Since she won't have that advantage, leveling her up one level at a time and working out the details together can help a little.
Toward that watering down of her power, I have two thoughts. One, she might want to look into Arcane Trickster. She could qualify for that prestige class at wiz3/rog3 which would leave her (using my imaginary example level) 8 levels of Arcane Trickster. This means her rogue and wizard capabilities will be much closer to what they were in 2nd ed.
Second, a 12/11 character in 2nd edition was virtually god-like. Given those XP tables, diving XP between classes, she would have been virtually an epic hero in that system, among the greats such as Drizzt, Elminster, etc. So if you don't want her to be 23rd level in Pathfinder, or even anywhere close to it, then her power will be somewhat watered down no matter what you do.
If this were my character, I would seriously consider rog3/wiz3/ArcT8 and call it a day.
Finally, after all that, you'll need to convert magic items. This should be fairly easy as most of it should convert straight across with little change, and what might need to change should be fairly obvious.
Lastly, write up her spellbook. Some 2e spells have vanished, and some new Pathfinder spells are available that didn't exist in 2e. Most importantly, many 2e spells have changed greatly through the many revisions, so make sure each spell gets examined and the differences are noted.
Whew!
Piece of cake, right?
|
Here is something I have going for me as a option for multi-classing in my game from crossing over from 2nd to 3rd and not liking the offering. It is a averaged out of the two classes.
Benefits - Decent power and tremendous flexibility. Full access to both class abilities
Drawbacks- Locked class progression - progress in both classes at the same time.
Must share resources of feats and skill points between both classes.
Slower class progression then other classes at same xp.
Keep alternate xp progression even if adding a new a different class level or Prestige class
Averaged out HP between classes.
About 1/2 level behind rest of party at same xp.
Class restrictions to armor and weapons apply - feats supercede this, but other factors may not- arcane spell failure for wearing armor.
Sort of like 2nd ed.
Sort of gestalt character -some drawbacks on numbers vs classes at similar levels.
Bonus feats -
3rd level - Arcane Armor Training
7th level - Arcane Strike
11th level - Greater Arcane Strike 2/day (homemade)
Abilities
4th level - Spontaneous Deception I (homemade)
8th level - Spontaneous Deception II (homemade)
Spontaneous deception is basically the ability for the rogue/wizard to spontaneous sub out a memorized spell to cast from a limited list of deceptive spells as needed ex:
Spontaneous Deception I -Ghost Sound, or Prestidigitation (O level)
Disguise Self, Magic Aura, Silent Image or Ventriloquism (1st level).
Anyway, I'm sure it'll get ripped apart over here, but this is what I have been using till I come up with something better. Listed to the 11th level.
Skill Points At 1st Level 8+ IN Mod
Skill points at each level thereafter: 8 + IN Mod
HD:1d7 per level
Starting Money: 3d6 x 10
Level Xp* BAB Fort Reflex Will
1st/1st 0 +1 +0 +2 +2
2nd/2nd 3,900 +1 +0 +2 +2
3rd/3rd 9,750 +2 +1 +2 +2
4th/4th 18,200 +3 +1 +2 +2
5th/5th 29,900 +3 +1 +3 +3
6th/6th 45,500 +4 +2 +4 +4
7th/7th 68,900 +4 +2 +4 +4
8th/8th 100,000 +5 +2 +4 +4
9th/9th 149,500 +6/+1 +3 +5 +5
10th/10th 208,000 +6/+1 +3 +5 +5
11th/11th 305,500 +7/+2 +3 +5 +5
1st/1st means exactly that - they get all the abilities of the the class at that level - spell progression, class abilities, etc.
*XP is based off of slow progression chart for standard characters.
Hasn't been a game breaker and in fact the other standard players actually need to be concerned about their mult-classed counterparts hp, ac, etc. Just like 2nd ed.
The slower xp progression keeps the class in check relative to other party members.
Can be a specialist mage - but cannot have illusion as an opposition school due to the Spontaneous Deception ability, but you could dump all that or change it as you see fit.
Well, here's what I would do...
1) Use the 2.0-3.0 conversion guide, and make a 15th level character.
2) Strongly consider DM Blake's suggestion of Rog3/wiz3/AT 8. If you like, compare it Rogue 3/ranger 2/3.5 assassin 10
3) You'll have bonus spells from INT, so more spells overall for a wizard of the same level. You might be able to get buy with a slightly lower wizard level.
4) It's MUCH easier to activate sneak attack compared to backstab. A smaller sneak attack amount that gets used more often might be a legitimate trade. If your wife misses the all or nothing backstab, go with the assassin build above.
5) It's now easier to replace skills with spells. Climb Walls isn't much compared with a fly spell. It's also easier to have good thief skills, bacause there are fewer of them. It's also easier for monsters to work around them (tremor sense, lifesense, etc). I HIGHLY recommend the Darkstalker feat from 3.5 Lords of Madness to get back to 2e Hide in Shadows and Move Silently effectiveness.