Simplified rules - for kids

[kraegar]

I'm taking my kids (7,9,11 + 2 of their friends) through the Beginner's box now, and have picked up a bunch of material (core rule book, bestiary 1, gm guide, some maps, a module or two, kingmaker ap 1, etc) so we can move on to the "full" game soon. (Going to start with Crypt of the Everflame)

I want to simplify the game some for my kids, to make it easier for them to handle and enjoy.

I plan to:
Remove Combat Maneuvers
Remove Prestige Classes
Remove Attacks of Opportunity
Remove Multiclassing (And so just one favored class)
I'm undecided about encumbrance, and whether I'll track it or not.

Any other suggestions for simplifying Pathfinder for a younger group of players?

[Anselth]

I'd definitely not track encumbrance, but make sure they're realistic about what they're carrying.

When you remove AoOs, on the flip eliminate things that would normally provoke an AoO other than movement and standing up, like casting when threatened.

Limit followers/mounts/animal companions/familiars, at least in combat, as PFS does.

And lastly, emphasize that it's about fun and having a good time together. Not about winning or beating eachother.

[Brianide]

Check out Old School Hack. Really simple character creation and rules, while still retaining the flavor of D&D. On top of that, it's free!

[LuceTheBard]

I don't even enforce encumbrance in my games with adults, unless they are carrying a silly amount of stuff or particularly large or heavy items.

As for combat maneuvers, I would encourage the kids to explore their options when fighting. If one of them says "I want to trip him" or "I want to push him into the pit" then I think it would be fun to allow them to attempt special tricks.

If any of them play spell casters, consider creating a "short list" of spells so they are not overwhelmed by choices.

[Evil Lincoln]

I would be sad to see maneuvers go. They're more imaginitive than stand and hack... But they are sometimes complex.

Maybe under certain conditions on an attack you could let them pick from the maneuver list and add that effect to the attack? It would keep things dynamic.

[kraegar]

Evil Lincoln wrote:

I would be sad to see maneuvers go. They're more imaginitive than stand and hack... But they are sometimes complex.

Maybe under certain conditions on an attack you could let them pick from the maneuver list and add that effect to the attack? It would keep things dynamic.

I could always add it in after they get used to things some. They pick up on things quick, so perhaps after a few sessions I'll expand the actions they can do to include combat maneuvers.

[Ironic Hero]

kraegar wrote:

Evil Lincoln wrote:

I would be sad to see maneuvers go. They're more imaginitive than stand and hack... But they are sometimes complex.

Maybe under certain conditions on an attack you could let them pick from the maneuver list and add that effect to the attack? It would keep things dynamic.

I could always add it in after they get used to things some. They pick up on things quick, so perhaps after a few sessions I'll expand the actions they can do to include combat maneuvers.

I did the same thing when running a campaign for my younger brother and his friends, all around 10 at the time. Every few sessions, I would introduce new options to them, and then in the next session, I would start having the enemies slowly begin to use the options as well. It worked wonderfully, and they quickly grasped how these mechanics could be used without being overwhelmed. By the time we finished playing, we were using the full rules. Also, I would suggest talking to whichever kids would like to play casters, and figure out what they want to do with their magic (attacks, protection, etc) and help guide them through spell selection.

[Kolokotroni]

How did your kids do with the cleric and wizard in the begginer box? If I was dealing with young children I would probably replace both of them with the sorceror and oracle, as I think those are much easier to handle. Prepared casting requires alot of forthought or you end up with a bunch of spells you cant use.

[kraegar]

Kolokotroni wrote:

How did your kids do with the cleric and wizard in the begginer box? If I was dealing with young children I would probably replace both of them with the sorceror and oracle, as I think those are much easier to handle. Prepared casting requires alot of forthought or you end up with a bunch of spells you cant use.

I helped them quite a bit. The clerics (we had two) ended up using channel energy a lot. The wizard was able to keep magic missile for the bad guys (we broke the game into two sessions, with a night of rest in the middle to re-memorize spells), and used the wand they found, along with orisons the rest of the time.

The fighter (and to a lesser extent the rogue) really carried the show for damage, but none of the kids seemed to mind.

[Kolokotroni]

kraegar wrote:

Kolokotroni wrote:

How did your kids do with the cleric and wizard in the begginer box? If I was dealing with young children I would probably replace both of them with the sorceror and oracle, as I think those are much easier to handle. Prepared casting requires alot of forthought or you end up with a bunch of spells you cant use.

I helped them quite a bit. The clerics (we had two) ended up using channel energy a lot. The wizard was able to keep magic missile for the bad guys (we broke the game into two sessions, with a night of rest in the middle to re-memorize spells), and used the wand they found, along with orisons the rest of the time.

The fighter (and to a lesser extent the rogue) really carried the show for damage, but none of the kids seemed to mind.

In that case I would strongly recommend switching out for sorceror and oracle. Divine and Arcane Magic are a big part of the game, but with spontaneous casters you could just print out a couple spell cards for each (perrams spellbook is a great free option for this) and make it much easier on the kids to play them.

I remember when I first played dnd as a young child probably around 9, when i played a 'wizard' my cousin who was dming gave me a very small set of spells to choose from, as opposed to the fairly expansive list that was actually available and that was a good idea.

[kraegar]

I'm using hero lab to help them build characters, and being able to walk through the spell list with them on the screen is a big help. So far I've been able to steer them into good choices for spells, skills and feats, so I think that's working well. I'm not making the characters for them by any means, just helping them understand the consequence of a choice.

I'm printing out the Hero Lab character sheet, and the short spell descriptions, and putting them in transparent sleeves. We're going to use wet erase markers to track things like spells used per day & HP, etc right on the sleeves. I got some of the item and condition cards to help track things like equipment acquired during a session, and then we'll add those & the xp earned into hero lab after each session, and print out a new character sheet to put into the sleeve for the next round.

Just a general question here - when do you divvy out XP and allow levels to increase? For instance, I got the pdf of Crypt of the Everflame. I haven't read through it yet, but I'm guessing it'll take a couple weeks for the kids to get through. Do I wait till the end of the adventure to total up XP and level up? Or the end of a session? (Maybe it says somewhere in the module, and I missed it when I skimmed it)

[Evil Lincoln]

I will normally do it at the end of a session (because most big XP comes from after a boss fight) BUT! If there's a big fight in the next room, and they earned the level's XP already, let them do it before the fight. Make a big show out of the new powers manifesting in the boss fight. For kids, I'd even let them get any new spells for that level prepared and new HP without resting.

There is nothing wrong with leveling up together as a group and going around talking about what new abilities you have. Party cohesion is really important in my game, so we like to discuss new abilities together before proceeding.

In the end, it's best to just use your judgement as a GM. Leveling mid-dungeon will never feel realistic, but it's often a necessary evil.