I'm making a new thread for these since the last one was getting a bit cluttered. Anyways,
Kits! Who doesn't love kits, or class variants as we have come to know them today. I've been working on a few class variants in my spare time (which is totally not so spare) and have now revised them, fixed them up and chosen the best out of them for you.
For those of you unfamiliar with class variants, the basic gist is that an existing class gains new abilities at the expense of older ones, resulting (hopefully) in a net gain of zero. Class variants should be as powerful as the original class, but in other areas. Without further ado, let's get down to business:
The Assassin
A variant for the rogue that strengthens its ability to, well, murder things, at the expense of non-murder related activities.
The Marshal
A variant for the fighter that sacrifices pure fighting power for the ability to fight smart, and lead your allies to victory.
The Stalker
A variant for the ranger that sacrifices animal companionship and combat style for the ability to better elude your enemies and deal damage when they don't expect it.
The Swashbuckler
A variant for the rogue with an emphasis on daring-do, who needs sneak attack anyways?
The Thug
A variant for the fighter and one mean customer. He'll stab you in the gut and punch you in the face, all in one round, and probably disarm your sandwich while he's at it.
The Vicar
A variant for the cleric. Less clanking about in full plate and clobbering stuff with morningstars, more skills, spellcasting and other stuff.
There you have it, the plan is/was to make two kits for every core class, but paizo has made that pretty hard to do because they've covered pretty much everything with their excellent customization options. Still, expect to see more in months to come (if you guys like it, that is).
Great work on these. I like all of them. I had some ideas that I think might improve them, in my opinion. Don't take my notes too harshly. I'm not trying to criticize; I'm trying to improve. Maybe you'll like some of my ideas or maybe not, but since you took the time to share, I inferred that you are soliciting opinions and suggestions, so here they are.
Sice note: I never saw the last thread, so this is the first time I've seen these kits.
Assassin - fun class with a couple issues
1. Naming conflict with the Assassin prestige class.
2. Too deadly. At 9th level with Swift Death this class can pretty much one-shot kill an enemy mage or cleric or rogue type class, and stand better than a 50/50 chane to one-shot a fighter. He would have about a 50/50 chance to kill a CR9 frost giant in one shot, about a 2/3 chance to kill a CR9 young blue dragon, and almost a 50/50 chance to one-shot a CR9 tyrannosaurus. At least the PrC assassin needs to "waste" three rounds setting up the attack. I would edit this class feature to put back in the rounds of study. Note: the text says your class gets Swift Death at 9th level but the chart doesn't list it until 10th level.
3. Angel of Death is way overboard, even for a capstone ability. I would expect a Fort Save DC of at least 35 on these attacks. The assassin himself could never survive such a huge DC without a nat20. Neither can many of his foes. Many monsters could make it with less than a nat20, but even some CR20 monsters don't have +16 Fort Saves, and those that do, many of them are still more likely to die in one round than they are to survive. For example, take a CR 20 Balor. +29 Fort save. Compared to a level 20 assassin with a 22 INT (14 + 2 level adjustments + item) the Balor needs to roll a 7 or higher to survive. 70% chance. But the assassin can Swift Death the balor three times in a round (I am assuming he's clever enough to get flanking or gain other full-round sneak attacks in some other way). Three sneak attacks (that's not even hasted) results in the Balor only having a 24% chance to survive the round. This capstone ability pretty much makes HP obsolete.
4. Based on that, Swift Death needs some further limitations. For example, put back at least 1 round of study and make it a standard action so it cannot be used more than once/round. Or maybe lower the DC when using Swift Death (hey, if he wants a sure thing he can take the three rounds, right?).
Marshal - looks good
1. Change his "Mental Training" to "Leadership Training" or some such and drop the INT/WIS from it - make this a bonus to CHA only. After all, that's what he needs for the Leadership feat and that's what he needs for his two new class skills. Make him the charismatic leader on the battlefield. However, this is a questionable mechanic. As far as I can recall, no official class ever adds anything to their ability scores. Instead, I would rewrite this to add +1/+2/+3/+4 to CHA-based skills and to his Leadership score and to Tactical Mastery.
2. Tactical Mastery sounds fun, but a DC 20 is too low. For example, a CR20 Balor needs to roll a -6 to fail his Will save. In fact, many foes will only fail on a nat1 (except other Marshals, for example, who are likely to have about a 50/50 chance of running away from each other). Me, I would put this save DC = BAB + CHA mod. Make that CHA count for something other than bluff and diplomacy.
Stalker - I like this one
1. It looks balanced, companion for sneak attack is a fair trade, medium armor and two feats is almost a fair trade for fast stealth and better spell list. Maybe a little extra tweak to balance this second trade - me, I might give back the medium armor or maybe throw in a second rogue talent, like Surprise Attack for example.
Swashbuckler - I am having a hard time with this one.
1. His BAB, AC, and HP are all worse than a fighter, so he doesn't fill the niche of the front-line types. But he loses Sneak Attack and really doesn't gain any other combat attack/damage benefit to replace it, so he doesn't fill the niche of the sneaky skirmisher. In fact, I don't see a niche for this class.
2. To fix #1, I would consider giving the Armor Training as a regular ability so he doesn't have to burn a talent to get it. I would also consider increasing his BAB progression to good. After all, swashbucklers are supposed to be deadly swordsmen. His lower AC and lower HP and slower feat progression will ensure he doesn't steal the fighter's spotlight, but at least this way he can stand next to the fighter without becoming a liability to the group's healer.
3. I don't really see anything that evokes the imagery of a "swashbuckler" in this class. Where is the swinging from a chandelier, or leaping from the masts of a ship, or any of the other "swashbuckler" derring-do stuff? Furthermore, I don't associate picking locks and finding traps with the whole "swashbuckler" motif. Maybe that's just me, but I might even suggest renaming this class entirely. Something like Brigand seems much more to the point here. Brigand sounds like a blend of fighter and rogue, which is really what this class is.
Thug - I am not sure if this is supposed to be an unarmed brawler or a guy running around thumping people with weapons.
1. His unarmed damage progression is too slow. I don't see a thug choosing unarmed combat over a longsword or greatsword for a very long time, if ever. True, sometimes it's not his choice, and it's nice to be good in a fistfight in case you get stuck in one, but for an adventuring class, this seems like a limited option. Really though, the feat is probably enough. Or change it up, stay away from the monk's flavor, and give him a small bonus to unarmed damage. Maybe the same bonus as the number of dice he gets for Dirty Fighting. He still won't choose it unless he is forced to, but at least he won't feel like a monk.
2. You missed a dodge bonus at level 19, when it should become +5. Maybe it was intentional, but the wording doesn't make this clear. In any case, this guy probably needs all the AC help he can get, so it seems like he should have it.
3. The capstone ability at level 20 is worse than a CR1 wolf with its Trip ability (the wolf doesn't need to score a crit). Me, I would consider just stuffing this ability into the existing Pugilism, make it apply to unarmed attacks only (or with weapons that have the Trip special quality), and find a new Capstone.
Vicar - The best class on the list.
1. I like everything you've done with him. Turned him basically into a wizard in light armor, with no spellbook, who can channel energy and use divine spells instead of arcane. Seems very well balanced and fills a niche that is missing from the current class list (the frail, scholarly priest).
2. I assume he can still spontaneously cast cure spells?
Thanks for the comments!
The assassin class was pretty much made because I think the prestige class sucks, so I don't really care about naming issues. I didn't do the math properly for the death attack DC, so I'm probably going to cut it down to 10+half the assassin's level+int modifier. Also, swift death as a standard action sounds good.
I want to keep the mental ability boosts on the marshal. There are a lot of people that want to play the smart fighter type but as it is, spending too many points on mental attributes is really nonviable and I think this fills the niche well enough. To tell you the truth, capstones are a weak spot of mine and I wasn't really sure what to do with this one, although it was really meant to scare off lesser foes, not balors :P . The DC improvement sounds good, though, and I'll chuck it in.
Although the swashbuckler doesn't get sneak attack, good base attack bonus or full hp progression, he gets access to fighter feats and more weapon training than the fighter himself. With greater weapon focus, greater weapons specialization and weapon training, the difference in attack between a fighter and a swashbuckler will only be 4, and the swashbuckler still has the option to use crippling strike even though he doesn't have sneak attack. He also has a lot more skill points and a better list of class skills.
The thug isn't really meant to be either a weapons guy or an unarmed specialist, he should be able to both (maybe even at once, with two weapon fighting). Again, the capstone was a big problem for me and I had no idea how to do it, but it meshed well with the Dirty Fighting ability. Further input would be great.
I'm ashamed you think the Vicar is the best class since it's pretty much a mildly modified Cloistered Cleric from Unearthed Arcana. And yeah, he can still spontaneously cast cure spells.
Going to fix a couple of things now.
I like the Vicar but, I think he should get the deities favored weapon as a weapon choice. I realize he's supposed to be a scholarly kind of priest but I also tend to think that devotees to a deity should benefit a little more than people that choose 2 random domains. That's just me though. Other than that I agree with pretty much everything DM_Blake said.
Changes made where needed. I'm not going to increase the thug's unarmed damage as it's decent enough as is, especially with two weapon fighting. My main problem now is finding him a suitable capstone ability, suggestions welcome!
Vicar
What you have is a weaker version of the very un-broken Priest from Tome of Secrets.
The Priest has d8's for channel, 2 domain spells/day [out of 3 available] and can cast one of his domain spell lists spontaneously. Also his spells each level cap out at 5 [although not until 10 levels after gaining each new spell level] and he has the Lore ability from Bard.
As the Vicar also has a Wizard BAB you should note that although this looks like it will only affect his fighting abilities, it does in fact impact his spell casting abilities also. There are many touch or ranged touch attack spells that are on the Cleric list [Slay Living, Harm, Inflict XXX wounds, Searing Light etc etc.] that will effectively be "unavailable" to the Vicar. Having a Wizards BAB and no need for high Strength or Dexterity scores these spells will make very poor options.
In short, I think the Vicar needs more spells/day somehow to make up for the lost spell options, lost fighting options and very poor AC [light armour and no shields without access to spells like shield, mirror image, displacement etc.]