Construction jobs tend to favor open employment for sometimes less than skilled workers. This does not mean the boss will expect the workers to go clean the dynamite, so to speak.I think I have to agree with basically everything Kirth has posted on this issue.
I've known guys who have been able to rebuild a good life after getting out, but as far as I can recall they all work in high risk construction fields.
There are a lot of reasons for the higher number of felons in specialized and hazardous construction fields.
High on that list of reasons is that I think ex-cons are treated better in these fields that any others. We have gone the extra mile to help ex-cons on some jobs for reasons ranging from nepotism to a need for specialized skills and occasionally just basic decency.
I've worked with a lot of felons in my field and almost all of them can site personal examples of what Kirth spells out in varying degrees. Some of them far worse than what Kirth outlined.
Construction jobs tend to favor open employment for sometimes less than skilled workers. This does not mean the boss will expect the workers to go clean the dynamite, so to speak.I think I have to agree with basically everything Kirth has posted on this issue.
I've known guys who have been able to rebuild a good life after getting out, but as far as I can recall they all work in high risk construction fields.
There are a lot of reasons for the higher number of felons in specialized and hazardous construction fields.
High on that list of reasons is that I think ex-cons are treated better in these fields that any others. We have gone the extra mile to help ex-cons on some jobs for reasons ranging from nepotism to a need for specialized skills and occasionally just basic decency.
I've worked with a lot of felons in my field and almost all of them can site personal examples of what Kirth spells out in varying degrees. Some of them far worse than what Kirth outlined.
I think another point is that an enormous amount of low skill jobs require public interaction: i.e sales associates and cashier workers and a whole lot involve being responsible with cash. Also, there are a whole lot of low risk construction jobs where working means one will have access to the house and personal belongings of customers and any theft (whether it be the felon, a co-worker hoping it will be blamed on the felon, or someone else entirely) will be looked harshly upon by the customer and there will be little room for forgiveness if it is discovered the business had a felon employeed.
About this:
"Hey, Spike, I need you to work 17 hours of unpaid overtime this weekend, in hazardous conditions, without sleep."
"Uh, Boss, that's suicidal."
"Want to look for another job? Good luck!"
"I could report you to OSHA..."
"And I could say you're threatening me and put you back in the slammer."
That smacks of slavery to me.
Although in a hyperbolic sense, it is reasonable to assume that anything happens among 300 million people, I see no reason to assume this happens in any way other than hyperbolic. I have worked a variety of construction and installation jobs, some residential and some commercial as well as working a variety of both light and heavy industrial jobs. The point here is that even in jobs that are non-union, workers are aware that their lives can be put in jeopardy and most won't let employers get away with anything like what is stated above with respect to other workers. These are jobs where people learn on site and most workers know they wouldn't have made it without the mentoring of someone else and someone will stand up for an employee getting abused less than that. So, even if the felon employee himself is afraid, someone else will have the employer castrated from my experience. That is the rule rather than the exception.
To be specific, I have worked in both residential and commercial electrical construction. I have worked in commercial and residential alarm installation. I have worked in non-union light industrial work: both on line in production and as a mold changer/maintenance mechanic in a plant that used steam presses. I have worked for the Steelworkers in a steel castings plant as an electrician and bridge crane mechanic. I have worked as both a marine electrician and marine electronics mechanic before moving up to calibrating equipment.
That's interesting. Do you live in the northeast? Most of my work is in Colorado, Wyoming, and California. I also work with a lot of Navaho and Louisianans.
Main fields include industrial paint, iron erection, pressure vessel welding, power plant and refinery maintenance.
We seem to have very different experiences in this regard. I wonder if it stems from regional or trade differences in our experience or some other factor.
That's interesting. Do you live in the northeast? Most of my work is in Colorado, Wyoming, and California. I also work with a lot of Navaho and Louisianans.
Main fields include industrial paint, iron erection, pressure vessel welding, power plant and refinery maintenance.
We seem to have very different experiences in this regard. I wonder if it stems from regional or trade differences in our experience or some other factor.
Non-union commercial and residential electrical/alarm installation was done in northeastern Kentucky/southern Ohio. Industrial electrician and crane mechanic was in Columbus, Ohio. Non-union light industrial work (at a job gained through a temp agency) was in Portsmouth, Virginia. Marine electrician/electronics mechanic and electronics measuring equipment mechanic (calibration) where I now work: Norfolk Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth (not Norfolk), Virginia. My father was a carpenter and boilermaker in eastern Kentucky but started out as a boilermaker in the Philly shipyards at the end of WWII.
But, since you stated that you think that your work treats felons better than others (gone the extra mile for a number of reasons) I am looking for where you have experienced what Kirth described and I reprinted in bold. Why did you or someone else not set the employer straight?
Just curious.
That's interesting. Do you live in the northeast? Most of my work is in Colorado, Wyoming, and California. I also work with a lot of Navaho and Louisianans.
Main fields include industrial paint, iron erection, pressure vessel welding, power plant and refinery maintenance.
We seem to have very different experiences in this regard. I wonder if it stems from regional or trade differences in our experience or some other factor.
Non-union commercial and residential electrical/alarm installation was done in northeastern Kentucky/southern Ohio. Industrial electrician and crane mechanic was in Columbus, Ohio. Non-union light industrial work (at a job gained through a temp agency) was in Portsmouth, Virginia. Marine electrician/electronics mechanic and electronics measuring equipment mechanic (calibration) where I now work: Norfolk Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth (not Norfolk), Virginia. My father was a carpenter and boilermaker in eastern Kentucky but started out as a boilermaker in the Philly shipyards at the end of WWII.
But, since you stated that you think that your work treats felons better than others (gone the extra mile for a number of reasons) I am looking for where you have experienced what Kirth described and I reprinted in bold. Why did you or someone else not set the employer straight?
Just curious.
I have not experienced it personally or first hand (I've never been convicted of a felony). Virtually everyone I work with on a project is a traveler. They go around the country where the work is, and they tend to work for what ever contractor has work when they are looking for it. I have the opportunity to work with a lot of different people. I have only worked for one corporation that might do something like this, but they treat everyone like crap anyway.
I have worked with dozens perhaps hundreds of convicted felons, and from what they say there is a reoccurring theme of individual exploitation rather than it being a matter of company policy. Things like "I'll hire you, but you're going to give me a tenth of you pay in cash every week." and "I'll loose your back ground check and let you rent a place here if you give me an extra $100 a month under the table"
are common. I'm told it's much worse in some fields like food service and laundry. There are also situations where ex-cons get blackmailed into illegal activities because they are ex-cons.
Parole officers abuse their power in some pretty hideous ways too.
Does that help clarify?
Will the Justice Department be held to account for arming lethal Mexican cartels?
There are some good links.
Eep!
That's nutzoid.
More on Quartzite, AZ.Eep!
That's nutzoid.
This is what government does.
I found this very interesting.
"Automatic weapons were not among those being trafficked from American gun shops to Mexican cartels. Not a single one."
I have heard numerous reports from all the major networks (including Fox and PBS IIRC) reporting that fully automatic and or select fire weapons (assault rifles) were being trafficked as part of F&F. It would not surprise me to learn that all the networks got it wrong yet again, but I continue to be impressed by the extremely high level of technical ignorance in the MSM.
Next month, I get a $.12 cost-of-living raise! And while that might not sound like a lot, in comparison to what a lot of my friends and family are getting this year for their straight up yearly raises, increases in insurance costs, etc., I feel pretty lucky!
I found this article surfing the internet, found it to be interesting, and thus, have linked it here.
I don't know anything about the author, but I ran across it on both the Socialist Worker's page and the Monthly Review page, so, chances are he's a leftie.
I continue to be impressed by the extremely high level of technical ignorance in the MSM.
I get the sense that you hit it on the head with this statement. I don't think they're "lying" as the article screams, but rather that they just have no idea of what the differences are between various firearms. The term "machine gun," when used by people who have no knowledge of firearms, can mean anything from a Glock 9 mm to a Gatling gun.
To the author of the article linked: maybe educating the "mendacious MSM" in the form of letters to the editor pointing out technical misuses would be a better strategy than ranting about how they "can't stop lying!!!" Because they have no idea what you're talking about, until you clue them in. Granted, it's lazy journalism to report on something you haven't done the research on, but as near as I can tell, there's about one investigative reporter in the whole world now, and everyone else just builds articles around what that person reports.
Until firearm safety becomes required coursework in public schools, it's our duty to educate the ignorant. Until then, correct usage of terms is confined to afficionados. Much as I personally can't tell one Anime cartoon from the next -- I freely admit that all Anime looks alike to me -- similarly, firearms all look more or less alike to people who know nothing about them.
Anklebiter, in the interest of getting a better grasp on why you favor Socialism or Communism, I'd like to know what aspects of those you'd like to see implemented here in the US, on what scale, and why you think it would work here favorably.
Sorry if I'm putting you on the spot, or if you've already posted this, I'm just curious...honest discourse.
Anklebiter, in the interest of getting a better grasp on why you favor Socialism or Communism, I'd like to know what aspects of those you'd like to see implemented here in the US, on what scale, and why you think it would work here favorably.
Sorry if I'm putting you on the spot, or if you've already posted this, I'm just curious...honest discourse.
I've been thinking about your question, and it is difficult to answer. I am trying to think of how I can answer it in the format you'd like, but I think that's impossible.
Fundamentally, I think that the root problem of the USA, and the world in general, is the capitalist system of production in which wealth is created socially, but owned privately. If the world could be ordered in a different way, stripped of the profit motive, I think that we as a species would easily be able to produce enough to feed, clothe, house and nurse every homo sapiens on the face of the planet and probably have enough left over to get everyone PlayStations and Cadillacs.
I don't think that the capitalist system, which is, after all, the foundation of the USA, can simply be legislated away, even if all of our politicians WEREN'T bought-and-paid-for by the rich and wealthy. I think this could only happen through, yup, that's right, communist-led workers revolution.
Not a popular opinion, I know. Anyway, I'd hate to abuse BT's thread while he's away, so I'll go make another one so people can call me a pinko bastard.
Thanks for the response Anklebiter.
The US prison system and felon system is inhumane and utterly indefensible, TSA us a cheap ploy to induce fear mongering, populace dividing, and to rack up "safety costs," and the news media is split between outright propaganda (Whatever Murdoch owns) and sensationalist garbage (everything Murdoch doesn't own)
Am I all caught up? ;p
As for capitalism, capitalism is a system that promotes accumulation of profit above all else. It is a religious institute built around the worship of greed. When you pander to the worst of humanity, how can you be surprised at the results?
Am I all caught up? ;p
Cost-of-living raises are cool.
Cost-of-living raises are cool.
Am I all caught up? ;p
I concur, but rarely are they enough to keep up with the cost of living.
I concur, but rarely are they enough to keep up with the cost of living.Cost-of-living raises are cool.
Am I all caught up? ;p
I agree, of course. The Teamsters for a Democratic Union (reform-minded dissident caucus) calculated that to really keep up with inflation, it should be $1.26 instead of 12 cents. But, nevertheless, a raise is a raise! (And, besides, I still get my yearly raise, too.)
I can see the PSA's now. DAD: "Son, How'd you get hooked on the nuts?"
SON (tearfully): "I learned it from watching YOU!!"
cue the "The more you know..." rainbow logo.
I can see the PSA's now. DAD: "Son, How'd you get hooked on the nuts?"
SON (tearfully): "I learned it from watching YOU!!"
cue the "The more you know..." rainbow logo.
I'm thinking someone at the FDA had stock in the company and is trying to shake things up a bit. Seriously, this has "bored employee" written all over it.
I got the following quote in an e-mail...
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America ’s debt limit
1. Is a sign of leadership failure.
2. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills.
3. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial
assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless
fiscal policies.
Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and
internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.' Instead,
Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006
I looked on Snopes and found nothing to refute this, but if it's true, blood is gonna shoot out of my eyes...
Yeah, well, these guys will pick up any stick to beat their opponent with. They keep going round and round on the same issues with their principles determined by the political alignment of the guy in the White House.
I always think it's strange, because they fight against each other really hard when they agree about so much.
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I agree. The hipocrasy from both sides is becomming so transparent, it makes me sick. And a bit angry, frankly.
I agree. The hipocrasy from both sides is becomming so transparent, it makes me sick. And a bit angry, frankly.
I'm thinking someone at the FDA had stock in the company and is trying to shake things up a bit. Seriously, this has "bored employee" written all over it.I can see the PSA's now. DAD: "Son, How'd you get hooked on the nuts?"
SON (tearfully): "I learned it from watching YOU!!"
cue the "The more you know..." rainbow logo.
The FDA has a long history of trying to expand its control of everything from vitamins to tea.
I continue to be impressed by the extremely high level of technical ignorance in the MSM.I get the sense that you hit it on the head with this statement. I don't think they're "lying" as the article screams, but rather that they just have no idea of what the differences are between various firearms. The term "machine gun," when used by people who have no knowledge of firearms, can mean anything from a Glock 9 mm to a Gatling gun.
To the author of the article linked: maybe educating the "mendacious MSM" in the form of letters to the editor pointing out technical misuses would be a better strategy than ranting about how they "can't stop lying!!!" Because they have no idea what you're talking about, until you clue them in. Granted, it's lazy journalism to report on something you haven't done the research on, but as near as I can tell, there's about one investigative reporter in the whole world now, and everyone else just builds articles around what that person reports.
Until firearm safety becomes required coursework in public schools, it's our duty to educate the ignorant. Until then, correct usage of terms is confined to afficionados. Much as I personally can't tell one Anime cartoon from the next -- I freely admit that all Anime looks alike to me -- similarly, firearms all look more or less alike to people who know nothing about them.
We have been sending letters to the editors for more than half a century trying to get them to correct their "errors". At some point I think generations of "errors" in favor of gun control goes beyond willful ignorance by the MSM and simply becomes lying.
Thanks for the response Anklebiter.
+1
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I got the following quote in an e-mail...
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America ’s debt limit
1. Is a sign of leadership failure.
2. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills.
3. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial
assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless
fiscal policies.
Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and
internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.' Instead,
Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006
I looked on Snopes and found nothing to refute this, but if it's true, blood is gonna shoot out of my eyes...
I don't know if these are the exact words, but I do know Obama (and many Dems!) did the same political theater against the debt ceiling in Bush's presidency that the Repubs do know.
"They've got a set of Republican waiters on one side and a set of Democratic waiters on the other side, but no matter which set of waiters brings you the dish, the legislative grub is all prepared in the same Wall Street kitchen.""
I got the following quote in an e-mail...
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America ’s debt limit
1. Is a sign of leadership failure.
2. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills.
3. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial
assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless
fiscal policies.
Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and
internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.' Instead,
Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006
I looked on Snopes and found nothing to refute this, but if it's true, blood is gonna shoot out of my eyes...
I don't know if these are the exact words, but I do know Obama (and many Dems!) did the same political theater against the debt ceiling in Bush's presidency that the Repubs do know.
"They've got a set of Republican waiters on one side and a set of Democratic waiters on the other side, but no matter which set of waiters brings you the dish, the legislative grub is all prepared in the same Wall Street kitchen.""
On this we agree.
I'm thinking someone at the FDA had stock in the company and is trying to shake things up a bit. Seriously, this has "bored employee" written all over it.I can see the PSA's now. DAD: "Son, How'd you get hooked on the nuts?"
SON (tearfully): "I learned it from watching YOU!!"
cue the "The more you know..." rainbow logo.
Glad to know that a "bored employee" would be able to destroy a business.
Glad to know that a "bored employee" would be able to destroy a business.I'm thinking someone at the FDA had stock in the company and is trying to shake things up a bit. Seriously, this has "bored employee" written all over it.I can see the PSA's now. DAD: "Son, How'd you get hooked on the nuts?"
SON (tearfully): "I learned it from watching YOU!!"
cue the "The more you know..." rainbow logo.
Oh come now. Diamond is in no danger. We can all buy walnuts at any store and from any distributor(although they are quite expensive). I should amend my previous statement to "stupid, soon to be fired employee".
Since there's no Media Folly thread...
More TSA shenanigans!
Isn't it great how the government keeps us safe?
"Leonhart claims that the DEA agents in El Paso and Phoenix were only “indirectly involved in the ATF operation through DEA-associated investigative activity,” and further absolves her agency by claiming that “DEA personnel had no decision-making role in an ATF operations” associated with Fast and Furious.
This claim appears to stand in stark contrast to claims made by the ATF special agent in charge (SAC) of the operation, William Newell, who stated in congressional testimony that the ATF, DEA, FBI, and IRS were all “full partners” in the operation."
crosswalks that don't cross anything...
explanation to come...
place keeper...
bump
Since most of the Republicans dont seem to remember any of this, Timeline of Iran & America
Socialists have long known that there's only one side in DC--the bosses', who have always used the government to protect their interests.