The other day, sitting around in the Super Genius Games Lounge (otherwise known as my living room), we were talking about the fact that Paizo has pretty much said that they have no current plans to introduce ways to make PCs using races from the Bestiary. Someone said aloud, "Man, that's too bad, because I really WANT to play a rakshasa!" and we all agreed that would be cool.
Then other people began to chime in with other Bestiary creatures that they might like to play as PCs, and stories about when they'd done such things in other games ... and how we'd improve on the various and sundry methods those games used to achieve such things. Pretty soon we'd come to a conclusion about HOW we'd approach that sort of thing ... and that it occurred to us that maybe we should write some of this up.
Clearly, we couldn't do a comprehensive collection (not at first) ... a product that big doesn't fit into our usual format, and we're already trying to manage putting together ONE mega-book with our P20 Modern patronage project. But we could certainly pick just a few Bestiary critters and put them into a more standard SGG product. And, if that proved popular, we could do it again with a few others.
The question is ... which races should we start with?
If you could pick just ONE PFRPG Bestiary creature that you would want to be able to play as a PC ... which one would it be?
Y'know ... just as a hypothetical question.
would 1 monster really be useful? I mean don't you need some kind of a system to sort that sort of thing out?
That said, vampire would definitely be at the top of my monster race desired list.
Can't give you just one, Stan! But I will give you a group - the goblinoids. Goblin/Hobgoblin/Bugbear would be the first place to start off. In addition, these guys can also cross niche into P20 Modern (if/when that gets off the ground ... .c'mon people who HAVE NOT pledged .... you need to PLEDGE!) vis-a-vis Urban Arcana.
Shoggoths.
Well not really, but lycanthropes would be good. I was just thinking earlier today that a prestige class might be the way to do it.
I am interested in pledging for the P20 Modern, but won't have money at hand until sometime in May. I noticed on your sight that the pledge period ends on April 30th, and you only have around 11% of the funds you need. Does this mean I am S.O.o.L., or what?
What happens if May roles arund and you don't have the amount you need? Is the project just going to die out on the burner, or be delayed until you get enough funding, or what?
Curious and wanting to pledge, but not drawing paychecks again until May.
I am interested in pledging for the P20 Modern, but won't have money at hand until sometime in May. I noticed on your sight that the pledge period ends on April 30th, and you only have around 11% of the funds you need. Does this mean I am S.O.o.L., or what?
What happens if May roles arund and you don't have the amount you need? Is the project just going to die out on the burner, or be delayed until you get enough funding, or what?Curious and wanting to pledge, but not drawing paychecks again until May.
There are alternative ideas being tossed up, but I don't want to speak out of turn for the Geniuses. I have concerns about the current pledging drive, but I don't expect P20 Modern to just die. At first if you don't succeed; try, try again.
That said, this part of the discussion should probably head here.
/Returning from my threadjack shill.
I wouldn't want to play a monster that would mobilize the town guard every time I went to the closest settlement. I mean, it's all well and good to be able to cast spells "at will" and have natural armor that's as strong as plate mail. If you can't buy a beer at the tavern, you're not going to have a lot of role playing potential.
My idea of a really cool monster to play would be a nymph. You'd look like an elf when you're on the down low, and you could blind everyone in 30' when you want to. Talk about sorcerers! What's your charisma mod? +7? Yee ha!
I once played a pixie character in a game in college. The Pathfinder rules on polymorph would have reigned him in. Still, that would be another fun character to play.
I might also like to go quadruped. A psuedodragon would be a fun spellcaster type.
Of if you wanted to play an evil character a Quasit or Imp would be fun.
I wouldn't want to play a monster that would mobilize the town guard every time I went to the closest settlement. I mean, it's all well and good to be able to cast spells "at will" and have natural armor that's as strong as plate mail. If you can't buy a beer at the tavern, you're not going to have a lot of role playing potential.
There is some truth to that. Sure there are times I'd even want to play fantasical creatures from a PC perspective, but your comment I'm quoting is the reason why I chose the goblinoids.
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The question is ... which races should we start with?
If you could pick just ONE PFRPG Bestiary creature that you would want to be able to play as a PC ... which one would it be?
Y'know ... just as a hypothetical question.
Lizardfolk. They are neutral as a race, which means other races could already have peaceful relations with them and it wouldn't necessarily be setting shattering introducing one into the game. They are distinctive as a reptilian race, rather than a normal mammalian one, which could open up the possibility of unique feats or prestige classes only a reptile could love. And they are already pretty much a level 0 monster, which means that the design effort could focus on new flavor and game elements, rather than having to focus on designing the race to work with 1st level starting parties.
I have always wanted to play a hound Archon. I know there are rules to spread the out as a character class, but my DM believes them unbalanced....Sigh...
Personally NONE
I dont mind the cool humaniod based races drow, tieflings asimar but i dont want rules for playing Dragons or anything crazy like that
Doppelganger.
I wouldn't mind the doppelganger, but if it were more in line with Eberron's changeling with the necessary facelift(s).
I see the possibility with the lizardmen, too. With Lizardmen and Hobgoblins, for instance, they have the capability to have half-breeds, which would make them more interesting.
lynchantropes, giants, gnolls, hobgoblins
lynchantropes, giants, gnolls, hobgoblins
Rite Publishing already covered the Giant niche here.
lynchantropes, giants, gnolls, hobgoblinsRite Publishing already covered the Giant niche here.
oops, forgot about that
is that really giants though? Frost giants?
Gorilla Grod . . . er . . . I mean a man-ape?
Maybe a celestial of some sort.
Centaur.
Shale . . . I mean . . . a stone based construct (I think metal constructs or partially metal constructs get all the lovin')?
Satyr.
Tengu.
A plant race?
Perhaps a sidhe type fey race?
Another shot at a giant race, maybe?
I guess I'm not looking for stuff that too "way out there," and I don't mind cross the streams between companies, because I think sometimes you can get some really interesting ideas between different people.
I guess I'm not looking for stuff that too "way out there," and I don't mind cross the streams between companies, because I think sometimes you can get some really interesting ideas between different people.
While I agree with you on this, I wouldn't want it to be the first thing that comes out of the gate on the debut of their monsterous races' line. While I appreciate certain publishers putting their touches on a previously released playable race for Pathfinder, I'd also want to see something more original and not readily available from others.
After all .... they're geeeeenniiiusssseessss. ;)
I wouldn't mind the doppelganger, but if it were more in line with Eberron's changeling with the necessary facelift(s).
I see the possibility with the lizardmen, too. With Lizardmen and Hobgoblins, for instance, they have the capability to have half-breeds, which would make them more interesting.
Dragonstar Dopples are a pretty solid race and fit well stats whize into Pathfinder
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Mariliths. Just to be difficult.
Honestly though, I would love to see planar beings approached in a way that let you evolve from a base, maybe newly-formed, example of ______ and let you gain the standard abilities bit by bit by taking levels in CREATURE NAME HERE whenever you didn't take class levels. Like say...going back to mariliths.
They start off Medium, with no spell-like abilities, weakened stats, and one pair of arms. Or heck, no arms if tail-slap and constrict are deemed enough to hold them over at 1st level.
Not that a fully-formed and standard marilith would be a particularly balanced PC option...but still. Just throwings that outs there.
Non-crazy answer? Orc.
Dragonstar Dopples are a pretty solid race and fit well stats whize into PathfinderI wouldn't mind the doppelganger, but if it were more in line with Eberron's changeling with the necessary facelift(s).
I see the possibility with the lizardmen, too. With Lizardmen and Hobgoblins, for instance, they have the capability to have half-breeds, which would make them more interesting.
Even better, Joey! I'll have to dig it out and see what's the OGL is like on them.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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*sigh* Half of the ideas being tossed out by people can already be played straight out of the Bestiary... Goblins/Hobgoblins/Tengu at least ahve all been mentioned and all of them have PC Race Stats in there. Not to mention that even more of them are Templates that can be added as is to your PCs (Vampires/Lycanthropes/Skeletons).
My take on what STAN! is asking is for Creatures that don't already have playable Stats in the Bestiary. Which of those would you like done?
My choice would be the Harpy.
I have already done a 5 Level Racial Class Progression for Harpies (amongst other Races) and even split them into 3 sub-races (Songbird , Avian and Reptilian). The Racial Progression is slightly above average Powerwise, for the simple reason that they were done for my Homebrew and Flying Races are the dominant Races of the various Nations.
It would be interesting to see another take on them, although hey if SGG want to pillage my work I'd be more than happy to share... ;)
Being the Only recorded Goblich in the realms, I like the idea of goblinoids.
THAT SAID, however, I think that the Barghest, maybe with the Feed ability redone for PCs, would be a wonderful thing to play.
Sahuagin. Put a fishbowl on your head and dont worry about water-breathing!
Awakened Undead, for sure. A Lawful Good skeleton wearing full plate could be a Paladin, and no one would ever have to know...
To heck with goblins, I want kobolds! Little, mean, dragon beasts.
Catfolk
definately centaur
*sigh* Half of the ideas being tossed out by people can already be played straight out of the Bestiary... Goblins/Hobgoblins/Tengu at least ahve all been mentioned and all of them have PC Race Stats in there. Not to mention that even more of them are Templates that can be added as is to your PCs (Vampires/Lycanthropes/Skeletons).
My take on what STAN! is asking is for Creatures that don't already have playable Stats in the Bestiary. Which of those would you like done?
Having stats in the bestiary and being playable are not the same thing. Paizo staff have specifically stated that the stuff in the bestiary was not designed to be player friendly. Kobolds and goblins for instance are intentionally weak because they are supposed to be low CR opponents, but that is not good when you want to make a playable race. In addition, I do believe part of the equation might be to make high cr monsters playable from level 1.
For instance, yes with the bestiary rules you could possibly play a vampire, but you cant play one at level 1 with the system that is in place. Same for lots of high CR monsters. It would definately be useful to have these products find a way to deal with that issue. Specifically if you only do 1 or 2 monsters per product rather then a whole 'system' you could balance them individually instead of trying to make one set of rules fit every monster.
Even better, Joey! I'll have to dig it out and see what's the OGL is like on them.Dragonstar Dopples are a pretty solid race and fit well stats whize into PathfinderI wouldn't mind the doppelganger, but if it were more in line with Eberron's changeling with the necessary facelift(s).
I see the possibility with the lizardmen, too. With Lizardmen and Hobgoblins, for instance, they have the capability to have half-breeds, which would make them more interesting.
They were in there races book I think their OGL was pretty open from that book but I wont swear to it
Githyanki. I know what you are saying and I will say it again, Githyanki. Badass is BADASS!
...and sadly, as you know, are WotC IP.
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I, on the other hand, do worry about companies crossing the proverbial streams.
If another publisher has already done a good job of making it possible to play a PC vampire or a skeleton, I'd much prefer that new ground be broken rather than existing ground retreaded.
I have the Obitu and even like the race quite a bit (I recommend the whole Remarkable Races Pathway to Adventure compendium). I also have Dire Press' Shroud of the Aether and thoroughly enjoyed their take. However, I would love Super Genius to take a swing at undead living with their super genius.
I have the Obitu and even like the race quite a bit (I recommend the whole Remarkable Races Pathway to Adventure compendium). I also have Dire Press' Shroud of the Aether and thoroughly enjoyed their take. However, I would love Super Genius to take a swing at undead living with their super genius.
Rite Publishing also did their take with Restless Souls.
Since there's already at least three different takes on this, I'm ready for something original. =)
Hound Archon.
Black pudding
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The other day, sitting around in the Super Genius Games Lounge (otherwise known as my living room), we were talking about the fact that Paizo has pretty much said that they have no current plans to introduce ways to make PCs using races from the Bestiary. Someone said aloud, "Man, that's too bad, because I really WANT to play a rakshasa!" and we all agreed that would be cool.
Then other people began to chime in with other Bestiary creatures that they might like to play as PCs, and stories about when they'd done such things in other games ... and how we'd improve on the various and sundry methods those games used to achieve such things. Pretty soon we'd come to a conclusion about HOW we'd approach that sort of thing ... and that it occurred to us that maybe we should write some of this up.
Clearly, we couldn't do a comprehensive collection (not at first) ... a product that big doesn't fit into our usual format, and we're already trying to manage putting together ONE mega-book with our P20 Modern patronage project. But we could certainly pick just a few Bestiary critters and put them into a more standard SGG product. And, if that proved popular, we could do it again with a few others.
The question is ... which races should we start with?
If you could pick just ONE PFRPG Bestiary creature that you would want to be able to play as a PC ... which one would it be?
Y'know ... just as a hypothetical question.
Umm gnomes... woops wrong game! (just teasing guys sheesh!) lol
Dragon
Mummy
Lycanthrope
Vampire
Lich
Ghost
Minotaur
to name a few.
I once played a pixie character in a game in college. The Pathfinder rules on polymorph would have reigned him in. Still, that would be another fun character to play.
I've said a dozen times on these boards I loved playing a pixie in 3.X. But since the Pathfinder pixie is too beefed up, maybe someone could create a fey race with a different name, but which has all the essential elements: flight, invisibility at will even when attacking, Sleep arrows that work on any target regardless of HD (maybe by use of "pixie dust,") and a level cost for these obviously powerful abilities. (And as you say, a high charisma mod is a nice plus.) The "invisibility while attacking" ability is the only condition under which I have EVER enjoyed playing a rogue.
Of course, a different sort of fey, with abilities that could compliment the Sorcerer class, would be very intriguing to me.
I have the Obitu and even like the race quite a bit (I recommend the whole Remarkable Races Pathway to Adventure compendium).
One problem with the Obitu is that they're NOT undead. The very first sentence of their description says so.
And if you're talking about a "race progression in place of class levels" idea, then I'd like to see Genies and Astral Devas.
Also, while I'm thinking of Savage Species, I'd like to see a level cost for a winged template. (OK, that one should be easily adaptable from SS, but still, seeing it in an officially labelled Pathfinder RPG book might be nice...)