John Spalding wrote: Just to reiterate, 2H and archery are really good back ups for each other. 2H is so not feat intensive that it is a cheap add on. Power Attack alone makes it viable.
Also, archery is great after level 6, but only so-so before that. It is especially bad compared to 2H at 1-3 (it can be hard to get a composite long bow with the appropriate strength when you have no money and your strength is probably higher than your Dex and you want to hit things) also Manyshot really makes the whole thing gel. But after Manyshot, you don't need much in the way of archery feats except weapon focus and the like.
H Step UP
1 Point Blank Shot
1 Power Attack
2 Precise Shot
3 Deadly Aim
4 Rapid Shot
5 Quick Draw
6 Manyshot
7 WF Falchion
8 Imp Crit Falchion
9 WS Falchion
10 GWF Falchion
11 Critical Focus
12 GWS Falchion
13 Staggering Crit
14 Critical Mastery
15 Improved Precise Shot
16 Bleeding critical
17 Weapon Focus Longbow
18 Weapon specialization longbow
19 GWS Longbow
20 GWS Longbow
This build is balanced (to my mind) around getting the best out of your surroundings. Sometimes a ranged weapon will flat out be better, like in difficult terrain or against flying creatures. But crits on a bow suck and crits generate a ton of damage after level 8. So my guess (and from a fair bit of testing it holds) that you are always better off will full attacks. But if you can get full attacks from either a bow or a 2H use the mellee weapon.
Throwing weapons until you can get a composite longbow are a great tactic as well if you wanna go ranged from level 1. Point blank, precise, and rapid shot at level 1, deadly aim at 2 and you are good to go.
Thrown weapons are ok. You need a bunch, you need quick draw to get any use out of Rapid Shot, and they still do sucky damage compared to your 2H at low level.
I think that ranged fighting is ok (on a fighter, it's different on a paladin or ranger) until 6th level when it starts to shine. I would really try to shine at mellee through 5, switch hit from there on out.
Thalin's advise on switching feats is good.
Sometimes I really think "Is this still P&P-RPG or theory-craft?"
Main-hand: Shield and Offhand: Dagger... come one.. how ridiculous is it? At least with a Full Plate.
Sure you have the best stats etc. but you will never fight because the enemy will die laughing...
P&P is also about the character, style etc.
I tend to build my char around a theme not around stats, that's what, in my point of view, P&P-RPG is for.
valshea wrote:
I am playing a Human for Role-playing purposes, I don't consider Exotic Weapon Prof. a "waste" of a feat if a Bastard sword is what I wish to weild as a weapon. I don't normally build a character around "racial" abilities, I build them to create a character that I will enjoy playing.
Are you allowed to take traits? If so, you could take the Heirloom Weapon Trait in Adventurers Armory and not have to take the Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
How much much does the critical feats mesh out with the extra dmg of a better weapon. I know the elven curved sword has a good crit range but it is solely a two handed weapon. I was thinking of using a weapon like the bastard sword that does good dmg and could be used two or one handed. I see the benefit of two handed dmg and the use of extra shield ac if needed. Any thoughts
Tarondor wrote: Do none of your GM's just say no?
I can't imagine allowing a PC in my campaign to use a scythe, dual kukris (or any kukris) or an urimi or any of that stuff. "It's not consistent with the (pseudo-European) setting," I'd say. "You're not the Angel of Death," I'd continue, "You're a fighter. Pick up a mace or a longsword or a greatsword and stop asking me about katanas and kukris and great big anime swords."
No?
I do the exact opposite. I'm tired of seeing Tommy the Longsword Fighter Number Eleven (mostly due to NWN and other online D&D-style games making Longsword more common than butterknives) so I actively encourage my players to use odd weapons.
If I could get through an entire campaign without a player using a longsword, crossbow, or morningstar it would make my year.
Orthos wrote:
If I could get through an entire campaign without a player using a longsword, crossbow, or morningstar it would make my year.
We should hang out.
Orthos wrote:
If I could get through an entire campaign without a player using a longsword, crossbow, or morningstar it would make my year.
Longsword I can see...but the crossbow is pretty much the only weapon an arcanist can use at low levels after spells run out in many cases so I really have no issues with these getting used. The morningstar is a terrible weapon...and nobody uses those.
Nobody on these boards even really uses long/great swords. .. It's all falchions and rapiers around here. Crossbow is generally the range weapon of choice for simple weapon users, so that would be tough to eliminate. When in doubt it was the weapon created to make someone be able to be deadly at range with no training.
Cold Napalm wrote: Orthos wrote:
If I could get through an entire campaign without a player using a longsword, crossbow, or morningstar it would make my year.
Longsword I can see...but the crossbow is pretty much the only weapon an arcanist can use at low levels after spells run out in many cases so I really have no issues with these getting used. The morningstar is a terrible weapon...and nobody uses those. Actually nearly every cleric in my games that didn't get a martial proficiency from some class bonus, racial ability, or other means used one.
Cold Napalm wrote: The morningstar is a terrible weapon...and nobody uses those. All my fightery types carry one, actually, though it's primarily a low-level thing. Why you ask? Because it does bludgeoning and piercing damage...so when you fight things that the falchion or whatever doesn't do so hot against, you switch it out for the spiked whackin' ball.
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If you wanna focus on a 2 handed fighter. This is my favorite build. Be aware. We allow 3.5 and Roll 4d6 drop low. 2 flaws allowed.
I'm having a ball with this (currently level 14) and I'm Kicking a$$ hard.
Build: Fighter 20
Race: Human Alignment: Lawful Good
Ability Scores:
STR 17+2human (20)
DEX 13 (14)
CON 15 (16)
INT 15 (16)
WIS 13 (14)
CHA 9
Favored Class:Fighter (hit point), Including Int, Human 5 per level until int =16 then 6 per level.
2 Flaws- – Honorable Challenge, Merciful
2 Traits Carefully HiddenYour life as a member of an unpopular ethnic group has given you an uncanny knack for avoiding detection. You gain a +1 trait bonus to Will saves and a +2 trait bonus to saving throws versus divination effects.
Threatening Defender You know how to avoid a blow while still maintaining your offensive posture.
Benefit: When you use Combat Expertise, reduce the number you subtract from your melee attack rolls by 1.
Char Lvl Class BAB Fort Ref Will Feats/Special
1 Ftr1 1 2 0 0 Wpn Fcs: Falchion, Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Fcs
2 Ftr2 2 3 0 0 Cleave (swap for Spring Attack at level 4)
3 Ftr3 3 3 1 1 Combat Stability, Armor Training
4 Ftr4 4 4 1 1 Wpn Spl: Falchion
5 Ftr5 5 4 1 1 Combat Expertise, Weapon Training
6 Ftr6 6 5 2 2 Whirlwind Attack
7 Ftr7 7 5 2 2 Elusive Target, Armor Training
8 Ftr8 8 6 2 2 Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing)
9 Ftr9 9 6 3 3 Combat Vigor, Weapon Training
10 Ftr10 10 7 3 3 Gtr Weapon Fcs: Falchion
11 Ftr11 11 7 3 3 Critical Focus, Armor Training
12 Ftr12 12 8 4 4 Bounding Assault
13 Ftr13 13 8 4 4 Lunge, Weapon Training
14 Ftr14 14 9 4 4 Gtr Weapon Spl
15 Ftr15 15 9 5 5 Blinding Critical, Armor Training
16 Ftr16 16 10 5 5 Blindfight
17 Ftr17 17 10 5 5 Combat Awareness, Weapon Training
18 Ftr18 18 11 6 6 Weapon Supremacy
19 Ftr19 19 11 6 6 Rapid Blitz, Armor Mastery
20 Ftr20 20 12 6 6 Combat Strike Weapon Mastery
AC= 10 +8 (Plate) +5(Magic)+5(Amuet)+5(Ring)+5 (Dex+Belt) +1(Dodge)= 39 or 44 if Fighting using Expertise.
Combat- Up until level 6 your best option is charge and cleave. You are hard to affect with combat manuveres, once you learn Whirlwind attack you can hit everyone in reach.
Level 7-12 You can now move at full speed in heavy armour (wear adamantine fullplate if you can get it- DR3/-) At these levels your defense gets a big improvement and damage increases. Because of three Focus feats, Combat Fcs your will save is high +4.
Combat vigor is fast healing 4- you are very durable. Elusive target grants some great abilities (Negate PA, Diverting Defense are the best) Bounding Assault makes a standard attack into a full attack.
12-17 Now with bounding assault there's no reason not to move around in combat. Combat Awareness grants blindsight to 5ft and gives you the HP total of adjacent allies, You can now blind opponents on a crit. Lunge lets you whirlwind everyone in 10ft. (15ft if enlarged)
18-20 You have a great will save (for a fighter). You obviously gain weapon and armour mastery (Taking you to DR 5/-) and confirming crits with the Falchion. Full attacks should be devastating thanks to supremacy. First and second attack should be auto,take 10 to the 3rd (now auto) and add +5 on the 4th (60%). Rapid blitz gives 3 attacks on a spring attack and against really tough foes you can end your focus for +5 to hit and damage on your next attacks.
Taking weapon Training and full power attack into account Final Full Attack is
BAB20 +4(Gtr Wpn Fcs, Mastery)+ 4(Weapon Training) + 5(STR) +3(Belt of Physical Perfection) +5(wpn enhancement) -5(PA) 36/31/26/21(plus another +36 for boots of speed)
Damage Primary= +5, Shock, holy, keen, ghost touch Falchion
D8+ 5(wpn enhance) +12(str,belt x1.5) +10(wpn train, wpn mastery, wpn spl) +1d6 (shock) +2d6(holy)+ 15(PA)= ave 49 or 55vs evil
So around at least 98 w50% of another 49 on a move- ave 125
DPR is 147 guaranteed with a 50% chance of anothee 49 so ave is 173.
** My Dpr Math may be off a bit. Truthfully I ain't great with the averages. my chars tend to do well because I find as many stackable feats for +1's as I can. I do notice however I do kill most things pretty easily and rarely need buffing. Mostly my mage helps me overcome obstacles so I can reach things that need killin.
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And this Is my favortie TWF'r build
Trip Master:
Build: Fighter 20
Race: Human Alignment: Lawful Good
Ability Scores:
STR 20
DEX 17 (20)
CON 11 (12)
INT 13
WIS 13 (14)
CHA 9
Favored Class:Fighter (hit points)
Skills- Including Int, Human 5 per level
2 Flaws- – Honorable Challenge, Merciful
2 Traits Carefully HiddenYour life as a member of an unpopular ethnic group has given you an uncanny knack for avoiding detection. You gain a +1 trait bonus to Will saves and a +2 trait bonus to saving throws versus divination effects.
Threatening Defender You know how to avoid a blow while still maintaining your offensive posture.
Benefit: When you use Combat Expertise, reduce the number you subtract from your melee attack rolls by 1.
Char Lvl Class BAB Fort Ref Will Feats/Special
1 Ftr1 1 2 0 0 Improved Trip, TWF, Weapon Fcs: Longsword, Weapon Fcs: Handaxe, Combat Expertise
2 Ftr2 2 3 0 0 High sword, Low Axe
3 Ftr3 3 3 1 1 Doubleslice, Armor Training
4 Ftr4 4 4 1 1 Gtr Trip (swap for Martial Stance:Leading the attack at lvl 12)
5 Ftr5 5 4 1 1 Wpn Spl: Longsword
Weapon Training
6 Ftr6 6 5 2 2 Two weapon pounce
7 Ftr7 7 5 2 2 ITWF, Armor Training
8 Ftr8 8 6 2 2 Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing)
9 Ftr9 9 6 3 3 Power Attack, Weapon Training
10 Ftr10 10 7 3 3 Gtr Weapon Fcs: Longsword
11 Ftr11 11 7 3 3 Two Weapon Rend, Armor Training
12 Ftr12 12 8 4 4 Combat Reflexes
13 Ftr13 13 8 4 4 Martial Stance: Martial Spirit, Weapon Training
14 Ftr14 14 9 4 4 Gtr Weapon Spl: Longsword
15 Ftr15 15 9 5 5 Gtr TWF Armor Training
16 Ftr16 16 10 5 5 Rolibars Gambit
17 Ftr17 17 10 5 5 Penetrating Strike, Weapon Training
18 Ftr18 18 11 6 6 Wpn Supremacy (Longsword),
19 Ftr19 19 11 6 6 Martial Stance- Thicket of blades, Armor Mastery
20 Ftr20 20 12 6 6 Standstill, Weapon Mastery
AC= 10 +8 (Plate) +5(Magic)+5(Amuet)+5(Ring)+8 (Dex+Belt)= 41 or 46 if Fighting using Expertise.
Combat- Up until level 6 your best option is full attack. At level 6 you learn two weapon pounce allowing you to make two attacks at the end of a charge. You are a trip monkey.
Level 7-12 You can now move at full speed in heavy armour (wear adamantine fullplate if you can get it- DR3/-) At these levels your defense gets a big improvement and damage increases. At 9 your weapon training bonus negates the TWF penalty with the primary hand and makes it -1 with the offhand. Healing stance lets you recover in a fight.
12-17 Here is where your damage gets to serious levels- Two weapon rend is great, Gtr Two weapon grants yet another attack. Power attack (-5) adds +10 to the primary hand and +5 to the off hand. Typically Power attack and TWF at level 17 (BAB) would impose a -7 to your attack bonus, but weapon training reduces this penalty to just -3 and Melee weapon mastery and Wpn fcs, Gtr reduces it to +1, offhand it's -1. So your full attack is 18/16/13/11/8/6/3. Your charges are now doing heaps more as well- two attacks at +18/16 (factoring in power attack) for +10/+5 bonus damage- leap attack doubles this to +20/+10 (+2 For wpn mastery, +4primary,+3 secondary for weapon training)Add rend to any attack that hits twice.
18-20 You are a blender. Heaps of attacks for big damage and good healing. You aren't much more than a full attacking, pouncing machine, but you are awesome at it and difficult to kill. You obviously gain weapon and armour mastery (Taking you to DR 5/-) and confirming crits with the Longsword.Thicket of blades lets you swap a healing stance for heaps of AOO, Standstill lets you pin them down (better than re-learning gtr trip because of frequency of use and lets you pin multiple opponents.
Taking weapon Training and full power attack into account Final Full Attack is
Primary Hand and off hand
BAB20 +4(Gtr Wpn Fcs, Mastery)+ 4(Weapon Training) -2TWF+ 5(STR) +3(Belt of Physical Perfection) +5(wpn enhancement) -5(PA) 34/33/29/28/24/23/19(plus another +34 for boots of speed)
Damage Primary= +5, Shock, holy, keen, ghost touch longsword
D8+ 5(wpn enhance) +5(str) +3(belt of perfection) +10(wpn train, wpn mastery, wpn spl) +1d6 (shock) +2d6(holy)+ 10(PA)= ave 40 or 46 if evil
Damage Secondary= +5 Sonic, Holy, Wounding Handaxe
D6+ 5(wpn enhance) +5(str) +3(belt of perfection) +10(wpn train, wpn mastery, wpn spl) +1d6 (sonic) +2d6(holy)+ 5(PA)= ave 34 or 40 if evil
Plus 1d10+ 12 for twr.
So around 91pts damage on a hit with both 1st primary and offhand.
On a full attack your first 2 are auto, 3rd is 80%, 4th 75%, 5th you can treat the roll as a 10 (auto), 6th is 50% and 7th (with 5added for supremacy) is 50%. Averages says 6 will hit (3primary, 2 sec and one either.
214 for the hits plus 17 for rend= 230dpr (+40 with BOS)
Without PA on your to hit increases to 39/38 on a charge (not counting +2 for charging) but you lose 15points of damage. Leave PA on for charges since you only get 2 and they'll both hit anyway.
For a full attack 39/38/34/33/29/28/23(plus another +39 for boots of speed)
VS AC 33 you'll get more hits but less PA damage.
7 hits is 210 points of damage (+29 for BOS) so vs AC's below 36 leave it on.
A ton of hitting attacks, self healing tripping death machine. Deals quite a bit more damage than the 2 hander (in fact most dual wielding rogues struggle to keep up.
Big Weakness- Will Save.
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Hexcaliber wrote: There are a few other builds that may be second class, but can be quite
effective.
5. Reach Fighter: combat reflexes and power attack are a must. Str only needs to be around 15 or so to compensate for str damage so you don't lose access to power attack immediately. Agile manuvers with a high dex so people can't tumble around you. Spring attack is very strong with this build as is whirlwind attack. The feats that give you concealment when moving can be fun here too.
6. Thrown Weapon: this build works just like a ranged fighter, but adds in two weapon fighing, QuickDraw and power attack to double as a switch hitter (ranged and melée combatant)
7. Expertise Fighter: you will almost never use expertise, but you will take improved unarmed strike and you will be taking weapons from people. You'll also be tripping foes, using reach weapons and taking combat reflexes to control what the opponents can do. This build is very MAD and not for the faint of heart!
8. Meat Wall: AC improving feats, toughness, some shield stuff, but not two weapon fighting. You're designed to out last everyone else. Saving Throw feats
along with their improved versions apply here as well. This is better as an NPC in my opinion.
Hi all. Depends on how you intend the role of your fighter. Personally I have a tank (defender/buffer too) build:
Dwarf Fighter (Armor Master Archetype)5/Golden Legionnaire 1
My feats are:
1 Antagonize
2 Weapon Focus
3 Dodge
4 Mobility
5 Combat Reflexes
6 Combat Patrol
He's focused on keep "aggro" of the enemies with Antagonize, withstand the blows and aid nearby allies
Hmm I was kinda kicking around a build as well
Make the archer build but use the Lore Warden Archetype. Now that the Ranged Tool Box has come out O see It having some more use than just in melee.
Race: Human
lvl 1: go Barb for and focus on Str and con when placing your stats.
2 Feats: Monstrous Physque (3rd party feat, if DM alows it.)
Power Attack.
Lvl 2: Go fighter from this point, with Two Handed weapon archtype for maximum damage outpout. and id go for Great sword.(With Monstrous Physique , your dmg base would be 3d6.) 1 feath for lvl 1 fighter: Weapon focus, is the one i get or cleave.
Lvl 3: 2 more feats: Cleave and Cleaving finish.
lvl 4: this is the level where you realy put out damage, and if you have like 18 str to start with, put your stat bonus in str. This is the level you get your Overhand Chop(Ex) from the fighter arch-type: get in close to a cluster of ennemys so you have the chanse to use cleave and great cleave and go in to rage mode and use power attack with Overhand chop: if you hit( your str score should be 23(+6 modifier) +12 damage from Overhand, +6 damage from PA. lets say you get an awrige 3 from each of the d6's, thats a 27 damage pr hit, witch is pritty dam good and wil easely crush most monsters in your CR rating for lvl 4.
From this point on, just get feats like Great cleave, Weapon Spez, Greater Finishing cleave etc etc and you'l decimate all.
Also, if your not using your Overhand Chop, then you get your 1.5 incrise in dmg for two Handed weapon, withc wil put your damage on avrige 24, but you get all of your attacks until you reach lvl 8, when you get your backswing(Ex) from the Archtype. with this build, you should have inuff HP to survive long inuff to get in a hit, and in that case, your most likely to kill anny thing that comes with in range of 10ft. Combat Reflexes might also be a good idea if you have a good inuff Dex.
I hope it helps , but if you want a PURE figther, then just drop the Barb lvl and go full Two Handed Archtype. I always get the first lvl as Barb to get the Rage .
Human Fighter || 18 14 14 10 10 10 ||Intimidate, Perception; Climb, Swim, Survival|| Seeker, Indomitable Faith(+1 Will)
1 |Toughness, Intimidating Prowess, Combat Reflexes
2 |Bravery +1, Power Attack
3 |Armor training, Cleave
4 |Great Cleave
5 |Weapon training(Blades, Heavy), Advanced Weapon Training: Versatile Training(Intimidate, Diplomacy)
6 |Bravery +2, Lunge
7 |Armor training, Iron Will
8 |Blind-Fight
9 |Versatile Training(Bluff, Ride), Cut from the Air
10|Bravery +3, Advanced Weapon Training: Armed Bravery
11|Armor training, Smash from the Air
12|Pin down
13|Defensive Weapon Training, Antagonize
14|Bravery +4, Dazing Assault
15|Armor training, Advanced Weapon Training: Weapon Sacrifice
16|Weapon Focus
17|Fighter’s Reflexes, Greater Weapon Focus
18|Bravery +5, Weapon Specialization
19|Armor mastery, Greater Weapon Specialization
20|weapon mastery(GS), Advanced Weapon Training: Weapon Specialist
If fighter than more warden even the skills and make sure maneuvers are alive .
Dirty trick specialist and debuffs.
Grapple...shaken..spear dancer ...stack effects to keep combat intersting
666bender wrote: If fighter than lore warden even the skills and make sure maneuvers are alive .
Dirty trick specialist and debuffs.
Grapple...shaken..spear dancer ...stack effects to keep combat intersting
Fixed that for you.
Ok, Worked out a sword and board build that looks really fun. Built using the human race for the extra feat. Only slower as a build using other races.
Feats- 1st- Two weapon fighting, Improved shield bash, Power Attack
2nd- Shield Focus
3rd- Free slot (see below for a few alt builds using this slot)
4th- Double Slice (plus weapon training in main hand)
5th- Free Slot
6th- Improved two weapon fighting (BAB TWF- +5/+4/0/-1)
7th- Shield Slam (Free bull rush with shield hits)
8th- Greater Shield focus
9th- Free Slot (Weapon training Main hand +2 and Close for Shield)
10th- Hammer the Gap (+1 dam/hit- +0/+1/+2/+3/+4= +10 if all hit)
11th- Shield Master (BAB TWF- +11/+12/+6/+7/+3)
12th- Greater Two weapon fighting (+12/+13/+7/+8/+3/+4)
13th- Two Weapon Rend (adds 1d10 + 1 1/2 str once/round)
14th- Weapon Focus (Main Hand weapon)
15th- Iron Will
16th- Weapon Focus (Shield of choice)
17th- Improved Iron Will
18th- Weapon Specialization (Main hand)
19th- Weapon Specialization (Shield)
20th- Free Slot/ Penetrating Strike (ignores 5 DR)
at 20th level your unadjusted BAB will be- +23/+24/+18/+19/+13/+14/+10
Every other attack will allow a free bull rush using your attack roll as your CMB giving great battle field control.
Using your free slots you have huge versatility for customization to your tastes, for instance-
Alt #1- go at least for a non-penalizing charisma
3rd- Antagonize [Standard action Diplomacy/Intimidate check to draw opponents to you. using Diplomacy (take Ease of Faith or World Traveler traits to make diplomacy +1 and a class skill) gives a 10% failure chance to opponents spells if they don't target you, with a one minute duration makes them suck or save for once!]
5th- Fast Learner (Advanced Races gives two of +1 HP, +1 Skill point or +1 CMD bonus vs two combat maneuvers- target trip and disarm. Falling in combat can be lethal, as well as loosing your weapons. This will stack quickly)
9th- Improvisation (+2 on skill checks with zero ranks, can use all skills untrained. Suddenly not a lump outside of combat lol)
13th- Greater Improvisation (+4 on skill checks with zero ranks, and 1/2 penalty for non proficient weapons which will probably never be used)
14th-20th, feats are simply bumped down the line.
Why? Always think battle field control. Keeping the bosses focused on you is your job, making them hurt if they don't is gravy. That disintegrate spell that just failed? wow from a level 3 feat lol. Maybe- maybe not but could help in a pinch.
Alt #2
alternatively you can chase DR from Stalwart. a Half Orc build can net you Endurance and Die Hard for free, but you loose the human bonus feat at first- which I'd suggest pushing power attack until a bit later
1st- Combat expertise instead of power attack
3rd- endurance
5th- diehard (don't use in combat! can be a death trap)
9th- Stalwart (using combat expertise trade dodge bonus for DR, stacks with other class abilities such as from the Armor Master Archtype- however you loose all Weapon Training as a trade. DR 3/- at 5th, using Stalwart at 9th- BAB- +9/+4; TWF- +7/+7/+2/+2; TWF and Combat Expertise= =+4/+4/-1/-1 gives DR 6/-; TWF, Combat Expertise, and Fight Defensively-+2/+2/-3/-3 giving DR 9/-. Hurts to give up so many bonuses but can save you in a pinch)
Obviously with a bunch of free slots you can customize as you like. Adding Critical focus, using rapier/scimitar and improved crit (crit on 15+), adding bleeding critical (an extra 2d6 damage) with two weapon rend (1d10 + 1 1/2 str)can net a lot of free damage. Remember base damage dice is unimportant. You want those crits. For instance at 13th level grab Improved crit vs two weapon rend netting you +14/+15/+9/+10+/+4/+5 with your main hand attacks having a crit chance at 25% of the time and the other half of your attacks free bull rushing you'll dominate!
Using Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack with Improved Trip lets you make a trip attack in place of a melee attack- potentially sweeping a crowd of adjacent enemies giving that lovely +4 to attack a prone enemy. Greater Trip with Combat reflexes gives you an attack of opportunity against each opponent tripped. Drop a feat into Viscous Stomp and you can hit them a second time for dropping prone. Great way to stack hits on boss types. You'll be loosing a ton of attacks of opportunity due to not enough dex bonus lol.
Anyway, fighters are super versatile if you keep battle field control in mind when building a character- have fun!
Ardenup wrote: Probably most effective and versatile is THF, Bow switch hitter w/quick draw. I like that, in principle, but in practice, within the context of the party you are adventuring in, it usually seems to work out that your character ends up with a single role. Either it's just not right for you to hang back and shoot arrows when you are so clearly needed on the front line, or your role is clearly to wade into combat and protect your fellows. It's usually 1 or the other. Even a melee-committed Fighter should have a good bow, though. Sometimes you are on a ship with people firing at you from shore; landing to melee with them is not an option, and you want to have something to do.
Ardenup wrote: Also, everyone likes to say trip builds suck after 13, This is only semi true- if you have a reliable way to get Large (either standing agreement w/caster or Magic item) you can make tripping viable longer as it will let you trip up to huge creatures. And below 13 Tripping rocks (where most of the game is played)- feat retraining can fix it later... I like Enlarge Person just for increased weapon damage, especially for the OP, since he expressed an interest of being a 2 handed fighter. I was going to suggest Butchering Axe, dipping a level in Ranger and using a Wand of Lead Blades then dipping a level in either Living Monolith or Cleric with the Growth Subdomain of Plant. Between the 2 the player will have 2 Size Increases, one of them Virtual, and increase his Base Damage to 6d6.
On the topic of Tripping and getting around the Size Restriction, remember that when Fighters can take Advanced Weapon Training, one of those gives them the ability to use Teamwork Feats as if all their allies had all their Teamwork Feats. That puts Harder they Fall on the table, which explicitly bypasses the Size Restriction on Tripping.
A thing I like about Tripping is that between Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp, each successful Trip can generate 2 Attacks of Opportunity. You could do something like fight with Sickle and Split Blade Sword--2 Tripping Weapons--and get like 4 attacks/round, or go big with that Butchering Axe so that each AoO does extra big damage. There are complications with what I'm suggesting here, but there are workarounds I can share.
What do you think of mine, Scars?
Half Elf with Ancestral Arms and Arcane Training, wields a Split-Blade Sword
Ancestral Arms gives you a free Exotic Weapon Proficiency. The Split Blade Sword is a 1 handed slashing, tripping, and disarming weapon that does 2d6.
Ancetral Arms gives you a level or half-level in any 1 Arcane Spellcasting Class. Make it Arcanist, and now this character can use any Sorcerer or Wizard Magic Wand. I really like Swift Girding, which lets you dress in even Heavy Armor as a Standard Action. Few things raise the hair on the back of my neck than that evil gleam in the GM's eye when he asks, "Are you sleeping in your armor?" Answer "yes," and you wake up Fatigued; answer "no," and you WILL be fighting Hill Giants in your underwear before dawn!
1Ranger1: Freebooter's Bane, 2 Weapon, BAB+1, uses a Shield, fights with Split Blade Sword and Armor Spikes.
2R1Cleric1: Growth Domain
Acquire a Wand of Lead Blades. Enlarge. The Split Blade Sword will then do 4d6 Damage. The Armor Spikes 2d6.
3R1C1Fighter1: Weapon Focus, Split Blade Sword, Weapon Focus Armor Spikes, BAB+2
4R1C1F2: Combat Expertise, Bravery +1, BAB+3
5R1C1F3: Improved Trip, Armor Training +1, BAB+4
6R1C1F4: Weapon Specialization Split Blade Sword, BAB+5
7R1C1F5: Greater Trip, BAB+6
8R1C1F5Cavalier1: Tactician, Paired Opportunist, BAB+7
Tactician gives everyone your Teamwork Feat. When everyone has Paired Opportunist, whenever anyone gets an AoO, all of you do!
9R1C1F5Cv1Brawler1: Unarmed 1d6, Martial Flexibility, Martial Cunning, Combat Reflexes, BAB+8
10R1C1F6Cv1B1, Bravery +2, Fury's Fall, BAB+9
11R1C1F7Cv1B1: Improved Grapple, Advanced Armor Training, Armored Juggernaut, BAB+10
12R1C1F8Cv1B1: Hamatula Strike, BAB+11
Hamatula Strike gives you a free Grapple with every hit with a Piercing Weapon. When you are wearing Armor Spikes, you do Armor Spike Damage with every successful Grapple Attack, and your off hand weapon is Armor Spikes, which is a piercing weapon.
13R1C1F9Cv1B1: Advanced Weapon Training, Fighter's Tactics, Harder they Fall, Weapon Training +2, BAB+12
14R1C1F10Cv1B1: Bravery +3, Coordinated Maneuvers, BAB+13
15R1C1F11Cv1B1: Armor +2, Weapon Versatility Split Blade Sword
Now your Split Blade Sword can do Piercing Damage, too!
16R1C1F12Cv1B1: Weapon Specialization Armor Spikes
17R1C1F13Cv1B1: Focused Weapon
Now you can do Sacred Weapon Damage with your Armor Spikes, the Base is 2d6, with 2 Size increases, that's 4d6.
Scars, there are a lot of problems with your build. From the top:
- Weapon training starts at L5 not L4. Also you will normally try to use the same bonus for both weapons, i.e. your non-shield hand will likely be a close weapon too.
- At L6 the TWF penalties for this build added to BAB come to +4/+4/-1/-1. If you're adding the weapon training bonus to one weapon here without saying so, note my point above.
- Without any bull rush feats shield slam isn't very effective. And if it does work the main effect is to push enemies out of your reach - possibly before you finish your full attack.
- Hammer the gap is a terrible feat. If you miss or have to switch targets the bonus resets to zero. On average it adds less damage than martial focus (+1 damage per hit) and that's a bad feat!
- If you need iron will in your game you need it a long time before L15. If you've worked out ways to live without it for 14 levels you don't need it then either.
- You talk a lot about battlefield control but you don't have any of it. Battlefield control could mean stopping enemies moving, or imposing penalties on them or something, but your character has nothing like that. Sometimes pushing your enemy 5' back is not control. Your suggested combo of whirlwind attack + improved trip comes online too late to be useful in the free feats of this framework, and lacks useful backup feats.
Edit: also, antagonize works best if you're a reach weapon user who can still take effective AoOs when your standard action is called for. Fast learner doesn't give access to alternate racial FCBs without GM fiat (not that the +1/+1 CMD options are anything to write home about). And weapon focus/spec. is more useful at low levels where a flat +2 bonus matters than late game where it doesn't.
You may like to note the advanced weapon training and advanced armor training options if you're looking at fun fighter options BTW.
Half Elf with Ancestral Arms and Arcane Training, wields a Split-Blade Sword
1Ranger1: Freebooter's Bane, Power Attack, BAB+1
2R1Cleric1: Growth (Plant) Domain
3R1C1Fighter1: Weapon Focus, Split Blade Sword, Cleave, BAB+2
4R1C1F2: Furious Focus, Bravery +1, BAB+3
5R1C1F3: Great Cleave, Armor Training +1, BAB+4
6R1C1F4: Weapon Specialization Split Blade Sword, BAB+5
7R1C1F5: Weapon Training +1 (Heavy Blades), Vital Strike, BAB+6
8R1C1F6: Bravery +2, Combat Reflexes, BAB+7
9R1C1F7: Armored Juggernaut, Stylish Riposte (any opponent 1/day provokes an AoO from you by missing an attack by 5 or more), BAB+8
10R1C1F8: Devastating Strike, BAB+9
11R1C1F9: Weapon Training +2, Advanced Weapon Training, Fighter's Tactics, Broken Wing Gambit, BAB+10
12R1C1F9Cavalier1: Tactician, Paired Opportunist, BAB+11
13R1C1F9Cv1Brawler1: Unarmed 1d6, Martial Cunning, Martial Training, Martial Flexibility, Improved Vital Strike, BAB+12
14R1C1F10Cv1B1: Bravery +3, Versatile Weapon, BAB+13
15R1C1F11Cv1B1: Armor Training +2, Improved Grapple, BAB+14
16R1C1F12Cv1B1: Hamatula Strike, BAB+15
17R1C1F13Cv1B1: Advance Weapon Training, Weapon Training +3, Focused Weapon, Weapon Focus Armor Spikes, BAB+16
18R1C1F14Cv1B1: Bravery +4, Greater Vital Strike, BAB+17
19R1C1F15Cv1B1: Armor +1, Advanced Weapon Training, Armed Bravery, BAB+18
Half Elf: Ancestral Arms: Split-Blade Sword, Arcane Training
1Ranger1: Weapon Proficiency, Modified Split Blade Sword, Freebooter’s Bane, Tracking, Wild Empathy, BAB+1
The Split Blade Sword is Modified so that it is also in the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.
2R1Inqisitor1: Judgement 1/day, Monster Lore, Spells, Stern Gaze Growth Subdomain of Plant
3R1I2: Cunning Initiative, Detect Alignment, Weapon Focus, Split-Blade Sword, BAB+2
4R1I2Fighter1: Combat Expertise, BAB+3
5R1F1I3: Solo Tactics, Broken Wing Gambit, Combat Reflexes, BAB+4
6R1F1I3Cavalier1: Tactician, Challenge, Paired Opportunist, BAB+5
7R1F1I4C1: Improved Trip, Judgement 2/day, BAB+6
8R1F1I5C1: Bane, Discern Lies
9R1F2I5C1: Bravery+1, Greater Trip, BAB+7
10R1F2I5C1Monk1: Master of Many Styles, Ascetic Style
11R1F3I5C1M1: Armor Training +1, Vicious Stomp, BAB+8
12R1F4I5C1M1: Harder they Fall, BAB+9
13R1F5I5C1M1: Weapon Specialization Split Blade Sword, Weapon Training +1, BAB+10
14R1F6I5C1M1: Coordinated Maneuvers, Tandem Trip, Bravery +2, BAB+11
15R1F7I5C1M1: Weapon Versatility, Armored Juggernaut, BAB+12
16R1F8I5C1M1: Improved Grapple, BAB+13
17R1F9I5C1M1: Hamatula Strike, Advanced Weapon Training, Focused Weapon, BAB+14
18R1F10I5C1M1: Weapon Focus, Armor Spikes, BAB+15
meatrace wrote:
6-This ends up being somewhat untenable and expensive. You still need point blank and precise shot. Either you will be enchanting 20-30 daggers up to an appropriate level, or enchanting shuriken which is treated as ammunition so you get a deal on it, but they are likely irretrievable after being thrown.
Another option at high level is the Sharding property.
Thalin wrote: Nobody on these boards even really uses long/great swords. .. It's all falchions and rapiers around here. I would not say nobody.
I definitely have a few characters with longswords.
Volkard Abendroth wrote: Thalin wrote: Nobody on these boards even really uses long/great swords. .. It's all falchions and rapiers around here. I would not say nobody.
I definitely have a few characters with longswords. I'm not sure meatrace will read your post. He hasn't posted on this thread in 9 years.
Vanilla Fighter 1-20...
Probably use a Half-Orc for Darkvision, and Shaman's Apprentice/Endurance, and Sacred Tattoos/Fate's Favored...
Or Half-Elf for Skill Focus Perception, and Arcane Training for Bard wands...
Or Human for Heart of the Fey/Low-Light Vision and +1 Ref/Will saves and Perception, and Focused Study for Skill Focus Perception/Intimidate/whatever
Race doesn't matter...
Toughness
Endurance
DieHard
Power Attack
Shield Focus
Unhindering Shield
Stalwart
Furious Focus
Advanced Weapon Training Warrior Spirit
Iron Will
Advanced Weapon Training Armed Bravery
Cut From the Air
Smash From the Air
Item/Flight Mastery
Additional Traits
If you don't have those, you probably aren't trying... everything else is just fluff.
Throw in some Vital Strike and Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique, maybe a little Cornugon Smash/Hurtful, a little Weapon Trick, maybe some Sunder stuffs...
For a real hero, you can probably throw in some archery feats, because the Fighter can afford it... throw Deadly Aim in the mix, because we are prepared...
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Be a dwarf for all twenty levels.
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