OK, so I'm making a steampunk campaign and I want to make something similar to the arcane mechanik from Privateer Press' Iron Kingdoms. I was thinking about using the wizard as a base. Though I'm not sure how to go about. In this setting the tech is powered by elemental crystals, they have all the elements within them, called catacryst (still working on a name for them). Any way should I try to figure out how incorporate that into the class or am I thinking too much into that? Any thoughts?
So, I get no help here?
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So, I get no help here?
Chill for a second.
Steampunk covers a lot of ground, almost as much as saying sci-fi/fantasy. Narrow it down a little, maybe set up a google doc page with all the info you've decided upon.
I'm not familiar with Iron Kingdoms but it's basically low magic / magitech?
I assume you are looking at Pathfinder Compatable?
Sorry for that, I just get tired of seeing threads about people whining how the rogues sneak attack is op (over powered) and everyone comments on them instantly. But if i have a legitimate question it takes forever for someone to comment.
In my world there is magic and tech. the tech that exists are iron horses (trains), a few horseless carriages, blimp/zepplins, limited communication devices (telegraph), clockworks, and firearms. The thing is the tech runs on elemental power crystals. For instance the iron horses have a large elemental crystal in the engine room that powers them. Also the magic weapons run on the crystals as well. So I was wondering if I should make an ability so that they can create the elemental crystals?
Yes I want to make it Pathfinder Compatable.
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Sorry for that, I just get tired of seeing threads about people whining how the rogues sneak attack is op (over powered) and everyone comments on them instantly. But if i have a legitimate question it takes forever for someone to comment.
Sure, but lets keep on topic from here.
In my world there is magic and tech. the tech that exists are iron horses (trains), a few horseless carriages, blimp/zepplins, limited communication devices (telegraph), clockworks, and firearms. The thing is the tech runs on elemental power crystals. For instance the iron horses have a large elemental crystal in the engine room that powers them. Also the magic weapons run on the crystals as well. So I was wondering if I should make an ability so that they can create the elemental crystals?
Ok, so High magic and plentiful psudoscience.
Are elemental power crystals magical, or are they some other power source (radiation, chemical reactions, etc?)
If they are magical, I'd suggest making them a mandatory spell component , replaces spell component pouches, and probably most other forms of spell component (such as gems).
Yes I want to make it Pathfinder Compatable.
Have you taken a look at the Alchemist Class Playtest? That fills an excellent gap between magic and science, as well as providing a good example of not quite magic.
I think a lot of what you need can be done with alterations to flavortext.
Change the Flavortext on a Summoner and you have the Roboticist, with their crystal powered companion.
Add a gunslinger option for a ranger's fighting style,
Give a bard a light pistol and you get the musketeer.
Also here's some engineering inventions I made with an eberron Artificer. http://docs.google.com/View?id=dcb4nm9n_260hdcdmfdk
I like the Alchemist, it represents a chemist in my world.
But I want to make a class that blends arcane magic with machines, basically a technomancer. Essentially they're a group of wizards that got together and started to use their magic toward making the technology using the crystals. Besides it was the alchemists and wizards (more so the wizards) that figured out how to operate the crystals.
The crystals aren't really magical, more like electricity absorbed into crystals. They're from core of the elemental plane and made they're way to the material plane after it was split into four different sections.
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I like the Alchemist, it represents a chemist in my world.
But I want to make a class that blends arcane magic with machines, basically a technomancer. Essentially they're a group of wizards that got together and started to use their magic toward making the technology using the crystals. Besides it was the alchemists and wizards (more so the wizards) that figured out how to operate the crystals.
Have you looked at the Eberron's Artificer?
The crystals aren't really magical, more like electricity absorbed into crystals. They're from core of the elemental plane and made they're way to the material plane after it was split into four different sections.
Elemental plane? Elemental Plane(S?) um, I hesitate to ask, but how does magic work in your setting (assuming there is a logic) if not by energy differentials between planes?
This sounds like a worthwhile project, but one that requires a lot of work which may have already been done by someone else. Have you looked at the eberron campaign setting at all? I am only loosely familiar with it myself, but I'm pretty sure the techno/magic setting you describe aligns pretty closely with the one in eberron. There may well be a class or mechanic that does precisely what you're after, buried somewhere in the setting's materials.
Edit: Hah, DivineAspect beat me to that thought.
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This sounds like a worthwhile project, but one that requires a lot of work which may have already been done by someone else. Have you looked at the eberron campaign setting at all? I am only loosely familiar with it myself, but I'm pretty sure the techno/magic setting you describe aligns pretty closely with the one in eberron. There may well be a class or mechanic that does precisely what you're after, buried somewhere in the setting's materials.
Edit: Hah, DivineAspect beat me to that thought.
Yeah, but sometimes when enough people reinvent the wheel one of them comes up with pnumatic tires.
Elemental plane? Elemental Plane(S?) um, I hesitate to ask, but how does magic work in your setting (assuming there is a logic) if not by energy differentials between planes?
Before magic came to the world the elements were all on one plane. During that time the gods chose that plane as their battle field against The One of Old. On the final day of battle the gods, together, delivered such a devastating attack that it split the elemental plane into sections of their own element.
This sounds like a worthwhile project, but one that requires a lot of work which may have already been done by someone else. Have you looked at the eberron campaign setting at all? I am only loosely familiar with it myself, but I'm pretty sure the techno/magic setting you describe aligns pretty closely with the one in eberron. There may well be a class or mechanic that does precisely what you're after, buried somewhere in the setting's materials.
Yes I have all the Eberron books, but the artificer doesn't really fit to what I want.
Yeah, but sometimes when enough people reinvent the wheel one of them comes up with pnumatic tires.
And BAM, we're back talking about magical technology!
Anyhow, I've seen that artificer class mentioned half a dozen times on the forums. Is it actually good for this sort of thing? What parts of the eberron books I did read struck me mostly as D&D without sensible restraint. Like every class option, variant, or concept one could think of was represented, mostly with lackluster and/or clunky rules.
Yes I have all the Eberron books, but the artificer doesn't really fit to what I want.
It might help if you really delineated what exactly you want these guys to do. Do they shoot magic from crystals? Do they build crystals into weaponlike devices and/or walking constructs? Do they perform magic via machinery, rather than ritual? Help us out here.
Maybe I will use the artificer and just change some of the flavor text. That might work. I'm giving my self a headache with all of this
@ DivineAspect: I like the Alchemy and engineering items you made.
So, I get no help here?
Hey, I can't stay logged in all day :-)
Anyways, you're wanting a technomancer that runs on magic crystals - at least his 'creations' do. Here's how I'd do it. I've never seen the Eberron Artificer...let me know if any of this is old hat.
Artificer-man is like a wizard, only he uses devices, not spells, to perform magic. The number of devices he can have running is limited like a sorcerer's spell knowledge, but he can power devices like a sorcerer too (including metamagic). So how is he like a wizard? Well, he can switch out his devices. Maintenance issues preclude him from keeping too many devices active, so devices that are neglected (not maintained) can't be used until refurbished. Devices also have weight and can be damaged, and the artificer can't use magic without his devices, so he has limitations. Oh, he's an INT based spellcaster.
Each device costs money to make...let's say...equal to the cost of scribing a spell in a spellbook. Probably about the same amount of time to build one as to scribe one. What the device looks like is irrelevant - as much as 'themed' devices might be cool, they shouldn't have to make sense. For example, a belt might make sense for Cat's Grace, unless you're casting it on someone else, then a wand would make sense. It should have weight, say 1/2 lb per spell level. We can give the artificer the ability to make lighter devices as he levels up - as well as tougher devices. When the artificer makes a device, he draws up 'plans' (free) which other artificers could use. Devices require fairly constant maintenance - going without for a week requires a device to be refurbished. Normal maintenance is free.
In use, devices act like spell components - free action to prepare and put away. Not entirely realistic, but let's not screw him over too badly - plus many of them will probably be strapped to the artificer anyways. Oh, and spell devices substitute for non-expensive material components...not quite Eschew Material Components - the devices are the components.
So if artificer man wants to switch devices out, he has to refurbish a device he's been neglecting. Let's say that takes 1 hour per spell level being swapped. Lots more than a wizard, but this is impossible for a sorcerer. It should also take a token amount of gold - probably (spell level x spell level) to put in new parts and fix up the old device.
Okay, so that covers his magical spellcasting powers. What about magical item creation? Well, since he runs on magic crystals, the first power he should have is Create Power Crystal. This is a bonus feat (1st level) that lets him make the Power Crystals he needs for his magic thingamabobs. Let's say that 1/2 the manufacturing cost of any technomagical device is soaked up by Power Crystals, so this feat lets you make up to 1000gp of crystals per day (costing you 500gp), and saving you money in the long run (i.e. 25% the cost of any magical device is saved through the use of this feat - that's why you're an artificer). You will gain Item Creation Feats as bonus feats as you level; but not Brew Potion, leave that to the alchemists, or Scribe Scroll.
Artificer
Hit Die: d6
BaB: Poor
Saves: Poor Fort, Dex, Good Will
Skills: 4 + Int Mod
Class Skills: Appraise, Craft (any), Disable Device, Fly, Knowledge (any), Linguistics, Profession (any), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Progression:
1st: Create Power Crystal, Crafty
2nd:
3rd: Device Mastery
4th: Bonus Item Creation Feat
5th:
6th: Device Mastery
7th: Bonus Item Creation Feat
8th:
9th: Device Mastery
10th: Bonus Item Creation Feat
11th:
12th: Device Mastery
13th: Bonus Item Creation Feat
14th:
15th: Device Mastery
16th: Bonus Item Creation Feat
17th:
18th: Device Mastery
19th: Bonus Item Creation Feat
20th:
Create Power Crystal: Power Crystals are required for magic items made by Artificers, they consist of 50% of the construction cost. An artificer may make 1000gp worth of power crystals per day, which requires 1/2 this amount in base materials an 8 hours per day of uninterrupted work. The required skill roll will be determined by the caster level of the finished magical device, or the minimum level of artificer to cast the spell (for spell devices).
Crafty: Crafty provides a free Skill Focus in Craft (any one), Disable Device or Use Magic Device.
Device Mastery: As the artificer progresses, he can optimize his ability to use devices. Unless otherwise noted, each mastery can only be chosen once. Most masteries work together unless otherwise noted.
Lightweight Devices: The weight of his devices are halved (to 0.25 lbs per spell level). The artificer must rebuild his device (costs 1/2 the normal construction cost) to take advantage of this mastery. This mastery may be taken again to reduce weight to 1/8th a pound per spell level (this costs money again to reconstruct).
Durable Devices: Ordinary devices have hardness 8 and 2 hit points per spell level. They can be Sundered normally. With the selection of this mastery, devices are hardness 10 and have 3 hit points per spell level. Devices must be re-built to take advantage of this mastery, which costs 1/2 normal construction cost.
Integrated Devices: The artificer may combine more than one device into a single object. This does not change how spellcasting works, but does save on weight and makes for a more durable device. An integrated device counts each spell level as 1/2 a level for weight and uses combined spell levels for durability (hit points). An artificer may only combine a number of spell levels equal to his level into a device, and may not swap out one spell from his current devices without swapping out all of them. An integrated device costs the full amount to construct (combined cost of all spells).
Disguised Devices: Normally, devices are fairly obvious as such. With this mastery, the artificer may use his normal craft skill to disguise a device as something else - an ordinary dagger or ring, for example. Use a Craft skill roll (keep record) vs. Perception, similar to using Slight of Hand for hiding objects, to determine how inconspicuous the item becomes (items must be rebuilt to take advantage).
Field Swapping: An artificer with this mastery may 'deconstruct' a device and re-build it into another device. This takes 10 minutes per spell level, and the rebuilt device must be at least one level lower than the original as well as a known device to the artificer. The device cannot be restored to its original function, it must be rebuilt. You cannot field swap an Integrated or Borrowed Device.
Burnout: An artificer can burn out the power crystal of a device with this mastery. This destroys the device, but gives +2 Caster Level and +1 DC to the save of the spell. This mastery can be taken more than once, and its effects stack. Burning out an integrated device destroys the entire device.
Borrowing: An artificer can use the devices of another artificer with this mastery. Doing so requires a Use Magic Device check vs 15 + Spell Level. Failure indicates the spell is wasted - the artificer can try again. Devices may only be borrowed for up to a week, after which they would need refurbishing.
Fast Refurbishing: An artificer with this mastery may refurbish devices for use in 1/2 the time (30 min per spell level).
Efficient Refurbishing: The artificer may refurbish devices for 1/2 the cost in gold pieces.
Recycling: An artificer with this mastery may deconstruct devices (his own and others) to reclaim 1/2 the build value in components, which he may use to build his own devices.
Booby-Trapped: If someone tries to borrow the device of this artificer, they will receive a nasty surprise. The borrower will take 1D6 damage per spell level (force damage) as the device self destructs. This can be detected and disarmed as a magical trap of level equal to the spell level. Note that artificers cannot detect magical traps normally. This mastery does not require the device to be rebuilt, only modified slightly.
Experimental: The artificer may build devices that perform exceptionally well...at some risk. Such devices operate at +1 Caster Level and +1 DC on saves, but require a Concentration check of DC + double spell level. Failure results in the loss of the spell and 1 point of force damage per spell level as feedback damage to the artificer.
Anyways, that's my hour and a half of thinking for the day...
Speaking of power crystals, I'm using something similar in my homebrew....I call them Arcanum Crystals. They can only be crafted by spellcasters and my settings Artificer (I need to put the finishing touches on it), but can be used by anyone (those not trained in how to properly use them risk destroying them, however).
I am also planning on using them like batteries, providing a power supply to arcane firearms as well as other devices.
If you are going for a victorian age vibe, you may want to offer Philosophic Clerics, and Natural Philosopher Druids as well.
I have all the other classes figured out. I've even made my own gun mage, with the help of other people on this board. Well in another suplement I found a class called the technologist. I just need to fix and add some abilities and it should work just fine for my world.
@ Helic: Thats a neat idea, I think I can work with that.
Well in another suplement I found a class called the technologist.
Which supplement? I'm still looking for ideas for my artificer.
Which supplement? I'm still looking for ideas for my artificer.
The book is called Steamworks. It has two classes in it, The Technologist and Inventor. Though it will take sometime to convert them to Pathfinder. I've also been looking at Sorcery & Steam as well.
@ Helic: Thats a neat idea, I think I can work with that.
Glad to be of help. Also, would love to see what you settle on.
Glad to be of help. Also, would love to see what you settle on.
I think its going to take some time. When it came to making the gun mage, I almost tore my hair out.
I think its going to take some time. When it came to making the gun mage, I almost tore my hair out.Glad to be of help. Also, would love to see what you settle on.
I think it's funny that Iron Kingdoms used the Sorcerer (sort of) as a base for gun mages when they probably would've been better off using the Warlock.
OK, here is a thought. What if I make a PrC thats a technomage? I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. I swear sometimes I think I don't have a brain.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/communityContent/houseRules/gunMageForMySetting
This is my gun mage. The finished product is near the bottom.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/communityContent/houseRules/gunMageForMySetting
This is my gun mage. The finished product is near the bottom.
A-ha, it does have warlock type blastyness. The no AoO's for pistol fire is nice too, though that might just be a trait of pistols. Being able to vary the damage type of ammo (fire/force/cold) like the alchemist's bombs would be very appropriate - after all, he could just buy adamantine bullets, neh?
EDIT: Speaking of steampunk setting, here's a piece of genius from my current GM: Take any creature, and slap a homebrewed Construct template on top of it. Instant automatons! Horse automaton! Ogre automaton! Octopus automaton! It's easy!
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/communityContent/houseRules/gunMageForMySetting
This is my gun mage. The finished product is near the bottom.
A-ha, it does have warlock type blastyness. The no AoO's for pistol fire is nice too, though that might just be a trait of pistols. Being able to vary the damage type of ammo (fire/force/cold) like the alchemist's bombs would be very appropriate - after all, he could just buy adamantine bullets, neh?
EDIT: Speaking of steampunk setting, here's a piece of genius from my current GM: Take any creature, and slap a homebrewed Construct template on top of it. Instant automatons! Horse automaton! Ogre automaton! Octopus automaton! It's easy!
I forgot to add those into the special bullets....stupid me, lol
Good thing you already have a baseline, otherwise you're looking at creating a lot of content...
You could always use new spells in the mix. Maybe some spells that synergize with the class? I know I thought a certain publishing company had fired all their game designers when Artificers never got access to unique spells.
OK, I have decided to use the summoner as the base for the class. though I need to change a few things. The eidolon though will be called a contraption.
OK, I have decided to use the summoner as the base for the class. though I need to change a few things. The eidolon though will be called a contraption.
Hmm...be prepared for tieflings and their 'infernal contraptions!'.
Hmm...be prepared for tieflings and their 'infernal contraptions!'.
I was wondering who was going to say that, but automatons sound a bit cooler. Don't you think?
Edit: The one problem I'm having is that I can't figure out how to do the spells per day. I want him to cast spells like a wizard. Not to cast them spontaneously (like a sorcerer).
Hmm...be prepared for tieflings and their 'infernal contraptions!'.I was wondering who was going to say that, but automatons sound a bit cooler. Don't you think?
As long as it's big, makes klanking noises and spouts steam and coal smoke, you could call it my Aunt Betty and I'd be happy :-).
But seriously, Automatons > Contraptions > Golems. And maybe Automata > Automatons.
Hmm...be prepared for tieflings and their 'infernal contraptions!'.I was wondering who was going to say that, but automatons sound a bit cooler. Don't you think?As long as it's big, makes klanking noises and spouts steam and coal smoke, you could call it my Aunt Betty and I'd be happy :-).
But seriously, Automatons > Contraptions > Golems. And maybe Automata > Automatons.
well they don't spout steam and smoke, they're clunky and loud (loud because you can hear electricity surging through them).
well they don't spout steam and smoke, they're clunky and loud (loud because you can hear electricity surging through them).Hmm...be prepared for tieflings and their 'infernal contraptions!'.I was wondering who was going to say that, but automatons sound a bit cooler. Don't you think?As long as it's big, makes klanking noises and spouts steam and coal smoke, you could call it my Aunt Betty and I'd be happy :-).
But seriously, Automatons > Contraptions > Golems. And maybe Automata > Automatons.
If you can hear the electricity surging through an object near you, you may already be dead. Having some crackle off from time to time would still give the same effect, and wouldn't scare the pants off an electrician when he realizes just how poorly grounded Bobo the Mecha T-Rex is.
OK crackle of energy, pretty much the same thing.
well they don't spout steam and smoke, they're clunky and loud (loud because you can hear electricity surging through them).
Well, then they'll have a nice Deflection bonus, what with the magnetic fields they'll be spouting.
OK so I finished the roboticist, I have a pdf version of (the gun mage is also on there). I didn't feel like posting it on here, thats why i made a pdf of it. Well if you want a copy give me your email and I'll send it to you.
OK so I finished the roboticist, I have a pdf version of (the gun mage is also on there). I didn't feel like posting it on here, thats why i made a pdf of it. Well if you want a copy give me your email and I'll send it to you.
I hope Perform: Dance is a class skill ^_^. Yeah, send that to me at cptkrank@yahoo.com, thanks.
I hope Perform: Dance is a class skill ^_^. Yeah, send that to me at cptkrank@yahoo.com, thanks.
....... 0o ....... wow, sorry dude, but you just lost cool points. lol
Anyway, I'm sending it now. It will be in a zip file.
Would you be willing to send it to me too? I have been looking for a class like that, creating automaton creations as a specialty.
if you will, here is the address: shartahl@aol.com
It has been sent.
I hope Perform: Dance is a class skill ^_^. Yeah, send that to me at cptkrank@yahoo.com, thanks........ 0o ....... wow, sorry dude, but you just lost cool points. lol
Properly done, the robot is AWESOME. It's the pretenders that make it uncool. That make everything uncool. Almost anything done well can be cool.
I'd love to take a gander.
My suggestion for this role would be to take a look at the "d20 Past" supplement's "Scientist" advanced class. It is a 10 level advanced class that you could easily extend to a 20 level base class.
The class is based around inventing unweildy devices that duplicate specific spell effects and have either uses per day or charges. Over time the scientist (I'd just rename it "inventor") can gain the equivalent of metamagic feats that let them adjust the items in various way, in time even giving them unlimited charges and so on. The items take up TWO slots on the player unless they apply later metaitem feats to reduce it, and so on.
The class has a very technomagic feel to it and preserves the wizard type role as the items can normally only be operated by the player that built them (complex pseudoscience involved).
@ Helic: The reason why I left some of the summoner abilities is to show how the roboticist merges magic with his/her automation. When I think of the maker's call ability I think of the capsules they use in DBZ from the Capsule Corporation (you can change the reason why they use this).
The trapfinding thing is also to show their intense study of both magic and mechanics.
I also forgot to add something on the 4-point Advancements: Internal Repair. It works like the fast healing evolution, though you don't have to worry about the starvation stuff and what not.
Oh and in my setting firearms are considered simple weapons. Since technology is mainly wide spread, thanks to the dwarves, gnomes, and gobbers (goblin off shoot).
@ Helic: The reason why I left some of the summoner abilities is to show how the roboticist merges magic with his/her automation. When I think of the maker's call ability I think of the capsules they use in DBZ from the Capsule Corporation (you can change the reason why they use this).
As I mentioned, I'd do away with the whole 'summon automaton to you' thing, making it more of an 'automaton companion'. You could have MORE automatons available at higher levels to represent his growing 'command and control' capabilities.
The 'share evolution' summoner power could easily convert into 'exoskeleton powers' for the roboticist, built into his armor.
Suddenly I've recreated the Warcaster...go figure ^_^
The trapfinding thing is also to show their intense study of both magic and mechanics.
I understand why it's there, I just think the trapfinding bonus is too good...a Rogue could not compete with a Roboticist.
Oh and in my setting firearms are considered simple weapons. Since technology is mainly wide spread, thanks to the dwarves, gnomes, and gobbers (goblin off shoot).
<nods> firearms should be simple. Of course, the kind of ammo tech used changes everything.