It was more in line with a "Sure go ahead and have this ability, its not overpowered in the least." From what I understood. You tried to defend it as being powerful, but it's really not, and I don't see a problem in letting you play a character that has it (you DM however has stated otherwise so of course it doesn't really matter now).Originally my DM said I couldn't use it because sword trained was overpowered and to see if I could change it.
So ask him why he thinks it's overpowered and quote us as your argument to refute it.
Because it's really not overpowered.
Elves get a ton of weapons free and get a few exotics as martial weapons. They also have better stats, many more abilities, and make for better rogues and spellcasters.
Tengu gets +2 dex and +2 wisdom with -2 con. That doesn't help any classes.
It was more in line with a "Sure go ahead and have this ability, its not overpowered in the least." From what I understood. You tried to defend it as being powerful, but it's really not, and I don't see a problem in letting you play a character that has it (you DM however has stated otherwise so of course it doesn't really matter now).Originally my DM said I couldn't use it because sword trained was overpowered and to see if I could change it.So ask him why he thinks it's overpowered and quote us as your argument to refute it.
Because it's really not overpowered.
Elves get a ton of weapons free and get a few exotics as martial weapons. They also have better stats, many more abilities, and make for better rogues and spellcasters.
Tengu gets +2 dex and +2 wisdom with -2 con. That doesn't help any classes.
Actually my goal was to play a Tengu Inquisitor that had weapon finesse so it would have helped out quite a bit. I'm sure a Ranger wouldn't mind those stats either (just saying) :P
Actually my goal was to play a Tengu Inquisitor that had weapon finesse so it would have helped out quite a bit. I'm sure a Ranger wouldn't mind those stats either (just saying) :PIt was more in line with a "Sure go ahead and have this ability, its not overpowered in the least." From what I understood. You tried to defend it as being powerful, but it's really not, and I don't see a problem in letting you play a character that has it (you DM however has stated otherwise so of course it doesn't really matter now).Originally my DM said I couldn't use it because sword trained was overpowered and to see if I could change it.So ask him why he thinks it's overpowered and quote us as your argument to refute it.
Because it's really not overpowered.
Elves get a ton of weapons free and get a few exotics as martial weapons. They also have better stats, many more abilities, and make for better rogues and spellcasters.
Tengu gets +2 dex and +2 wisdom with -2 con. That doesn't help any classes.
It doesn't change that you won't be doing that much more damage then you would otherwise ;p
It doesn't change that you won't be doing that much more damage then you would otherwise ;p
That's true but it would start me with an 18 dex and 16 wis instead of a 16 dex and wis.
That's true but it would start me with an 18 dex and 16 wis instead of a 16 dex and wis.
It doesn't change that you won't be doing that much more damage then you would otherwise ;p
So you found a class that the tengu is good at.
I don't hear anyone claiming that drow bards are broken because they have +2 charisma and dex. Or that elven arcane archers are broken because they get intellect and dex.
So you found a class that the tengu is good at.
I don't hear anyone claiming that drow bards are broken because they have +2 charisma and dex. Or that elven arcane archers are broken because they get intellect and dex.
I didn't say it was broken my DM said I couldn't because sword trained was overpowered. Also because everyone else seems to want to argue in this forum, I'm going to buy 1 of every sword the Tengu is proficient with and pump every skill point I can into Sleight of Hand or Perform (juggle) and use 1000 swords.
?
Oh no, Tengu know how to use swords! Nerfff!
How is this possibly considered overpowered? Sure, it looks great on paper if you run a class that only gets simple weapons. But let's upgrade to a fighter and what do you get? Kukris, Bastard Swords, Elven Curveblades and Lol-this-sword-has-to-blades.
Sure, I guess that is somehow overpowered... If you get past that Tengu are pretty much glass and best suited for ranged combat or as divine casters.
I didn't say it was broken my DM said I couldn't because sword trained was overpowered. Also because everyone else seems to want to argue in this forum, I'm going to buy 1 of every sword the Tengu is proficient with and pump every skill point I can into Sleight of Hand or Perform (juggle) and use 1000 swords.So you found a class that the tengu is good at.
I don't hear anyone claiming that drow bards are broken because they have +2 charisma and dex. Or that elven arcane archers are broken because they get intellect and dex.
Ask your DM why he thinks sword training is overpowered.
Better yet, have him come here and discuss it with us! :D
Ask your DM why he thinks sword training is overpowered.
Better yet, have him come here and discuss it with us! :D
I'm going to go with "because he's a nazi"
Hey now no need to godwin here.
At the end of the day I think we all agree that the Tengu isn't overpowered, and consequentially that swordtrained isn't overpowered either.
However I would point out that his DM has made a decision, and has stuck by that decision. Now we might not like or agree with the decision but it's not ours to make, and we should respect the fact that the DM (in this situation) has ruled.
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Post APG and KQ #14, I like tengu more than ever.
Amazing! Was this you who published this? Very well done, I look forward to additional features here.
Now I really like this race but, is it just me or is the "Swordtrained" ability a little much?
No.
If you want a broken ability, look at 3.0 Oriental Adventures Kenku. Free proficiency and Weapon Finesse with Katanas. That is some craziness right there.
By Japanese lore all the greatest sword masters of Japan were trained by Tengu, with Yoshitsune Minamoto being one of their greatest heroes as one of those trained by them.
But also by Japanese lore, Tengu have a limited teleportation power, perhaps like Dimension Door, so my tengu are a bit beefed up compared to PF tengu, but hadn't planned on allowing them as a PC race - but that's not out of the question.
GP