we will continue here...
Recap.......
I have had some thoughts about running a dragon campaign before, I appreciate some of the difficulties involved and realise that a dragon campaign is automatically a medium to high level when it starts
My thoughts are that we count the dragons’ hit dice as levels and that being a dragon is a class, when enough exp is gained to go up a level the dragon levels up, if the dragon then has enough HD to be a dragon of a higher age category then it gains all the abilities as if it had aged, we start with all dragons at 8HD.
The dragon PCs will be like gestalt characters (multiclass) they pick ONE and only one class which they run alongside their dragon class (e.g. they are a level 8 paladin and level 8 dragon).
The dragon class has d12 hp, good base attack progression, all saves being good and 6 skill point’s level
So the other class adds special abilities, feats, spells and extra class skills (a rogue would also have two extra skill points a level)
My idea is that....
The dragon’s souls have been magically joined with humanoid ones (this happens while they are still eggs)
Basically all the dragons will have two true shapes, their normal dragon shape and their medium size (or small) humanoid shape (standard races only), PCs can freely (a standard action) change between the two shapes
In humanoid form they keep their abilities and senses, stats only change due to size modifiers, they do lose their natural armour bonus though. When in their humanoid shape they count as a member of that race for purposes of magic. They do not get any extra abilities that the humanoid race has
I have used the old council of wyrms setting for some inspiration. Your characters are all hatchlings, dragons learn much while they are eggs, and you have had a lot of magic used in your creation so
the game will start with you being born,
take the base dragon stats
then add one of these to each stat
8,6,4,2,2,0
hitpoints are max level 1 and 7 for other levels
you have 10000gp worth of items that will be in a chest nearby
you can have anything you like from core rules
btw i will allow most magical items to work in either form
but armour will not
all pc's will also get a backpack of holding that will hold 300 lbs and only wiegh 10 lbs (i dont want us caught up in encumberance rules)
this backpack tranforms to fit dragon or humanoid
please note that weapons do not change size
BTW for encounters i will start with counting you as 3-4 level higher
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
Putting the dot up. Character so far.
M Young Brass dragon Conjurer 8
I just need equipment and he is done.
Some background info
I am setting this campaign in the forgotten realms
And I am using "The Year of Rogue Dragons" trilogy by Richard Lee Byers as inspiration
The forgotten realms will be a slightly different place with no "chosen” of the gods and other changes which I will mention as we go along
You all start life as an egg, but while an egg you learn and develop a lot
You are looked after by a very ancient copper dragon called Drumas “ the mad”, Drumas does not mind being mad, he feels it gives him a better perspective on life. He is like a crazy grandfather,
While your egg develops you are able to enter a dream world where you learn your skills and abilities, those of you with a faith also have an encounter with a messenger of your god.
Drumas teaches you much, you realise that you are unusual and that you are mixed souled creatures, Drumas never tells you how he did this though.
He teaches you magic and what it means to be a dragon, he teaches you that you should respect all life and fight evil where you can, he teaches you that dragons are not more important than other beings, he teaches you that your primary task is to guide and protect those who need it (Obviously how you take his teaching is up to you)
Drumas explains that dragons are in serious decline; this is due to several factors
1. There have never been many dragons in comparison to other races
2. Dragons have few offspring in a thousand years while other race breed a lot faster
3. Other races have a drive and ability to adapt that dragons don’t seem to be able to copy, a human can become an arch mage in 50 years,, A dragon may take 5000
4. Then there is the dragon rage, Every 343 years all dragon on the planet go into a murderous rage for about 4- 6 months, the dragons destroy and rampage, not only do they kill a lot of people, many dragon also die, because they become too angry to fight intelligently or with cunning
Drumas has created you (you think there are about 8 of you)
To fight against some of these things
You have the drive and adaptability of humanoids, because of your dual nature you will be immune to the rage in humanoid form and very resistant to it in draconic form (in gaming terms you may go into a barbarian type rage on occasion but that is all)
Drumas believes that the elves used “high” magic millennia ago to start the rage; they did this because they were enslaved by dragon overlords.
Drumas cannot find the magical source of the rage but believes it may be possible to find it when it there is a rage happening, unfortunately no dragon is really capable of casting divinations over several days while a rage is at its height, Drumas hopes that when the next rage happens in two hundred and fifty years you will all be ready to find its source and stop it once and for all, he puts a spell into your heads which when cast will allow you to hopefully discern the location of the high magic , the spell is locked in your brains and will become known to you when you achieve a level high enough to cast it.
At present the only thing a dragon can do to prevent becoming enraged is to put themselves in a deep magical slumber
Drumas explains that he is considered dangerous and mad by other good dragons, many of them believe that it is best to sleep during the rage (that is if they have the magic to do so)
Finally Drumas explains that he died some time ago, he used his life energy to create the dual nature dragons, he will fade soon, but he is glad and happy because you can carry on his work, all that remains is his spirit in the dream world, in the real world there is a chest for each of you with some items to start you off
Drumas wants you to grow in power for two hundred and fifty years and then stop the rage once and for all
He asks you,
any questions? My time is drawing near.
i will start a thread on the PBP messageboard
called Ravs dragon adventures
more info for you
to speed things up in combat i will be using a modified iniative system
everyone goes as if they rolled a ten
an example
pc 1 19
pc 2 13
pc 3 12
monster 11
pc4 10
pc 5 9
to further speed things up all pc,s going before the monster can simply post their actions and they will be resolved in order of POSTING, so if pc 2 post before pc 1 then that is ok
PC4 and pc 5 will have to wait until after the monster has done his action
their action will then be done according to who post first
If your charcter has a readied action then you can you roll it in case you get a chance to use it
hope this makes sense!
in any fight you can ask for me to run it instead in the normal way
we will use the fast exp track and you start with enough exp for level 8
So if you're wearing armor, what happens when u transform to dragon? It bursts apart and is ruined?
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
So...don't wear armor, or any of that expensive fabric type stuff either. (^_~)
I'm spending the starting money on Bracers and Amulets of +1 armoring type effects, myself. Might have a shield as well. Something that will either magically change *points up* as per the DM's fiat, or you can simply drop.
Sounds like fun! Are you using 3.5, or PF? What sources can be used.
re armour and equipment
the bags of holding i have given you have an extra magical property
when you change shape, unwanted items you are carrying go into the bag,
when you change back the item appears back on you where it was prevously
im not quite sure what to do about shields, at the moment i am going to say that you can use them in dragon form if they are the right size
or if they have the wild shape ability
(when you can afford it) i will also allow the wildshape armour ability to work when you are in dragon form
basically i dont want people worrying about items too much
Rav
Antonlowe wrote: Sounds like fun! Are you using 3.5, or PF? What sources can be used. sorry Antonlowe but i have enough players at the moment
but typically people drop out
if someone does drop out i will post on gamer connection
with
lord viper and
Antonlowe,
as my reserves
Shaya /Sherrenasaerenalia wrote: So...don't wear armor, or any of that expensive fabric type stuff either. (^_~)
I'm spending the starting money on Bracers and Amulets of +1 armoring type effects, myself. Might have a shield as well. Something that will either magically change *points up* as per the DM's fiat, or you can simply drop.
shaya when you are ready please post on the PBP thread
also i hope you dont mind me saying but your wisdom is far too low
you will only be able to cast 1st level spells, it may just be that you have not swapped stats around yet
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
Sorry, the character isn't finished at all yet. Nope, haven't adjusted stats etc yet. Though there's paper work strewn to heck and back with every thing worked out. I just haven't had the time from work to transpose things onto the forum. V_V Sorry.
Um, there's a PbP thread now? *Runs off to search forum*
(^_^)
I just realized that the base stats of a gold dragon has 8HD. Does that mean that since we start with 8HD, my character will be a wyrmling? If so, it's a small size dragon. Does that mean that my humanoid form will be small too?
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
I thought it was we went from what ever Dragon size we were to a 'normal' humanoid size of set choice?
So a HUGE Dragon turns into a Half-ling. Though at the start a small Dragon turns into a, um, 'normal' Half-ling?
I believe you need to pick a humanoid race, that you can change shape into, and you are that races size.
Eric Swanson wrote: I believe you need to pick a humanoid race, that you can change shape into, and you are that races size. eric has it right, you pick a standard PC humaniod race and your size is the normal for that race, you dragon size increases as you get more powerful but your humaniod one does not
and yup a Gold dragon starts as a wyrmling
you will actually find that your humaniod form is stronger than your dragon one if your dragon is small
Thanks guys, currently working on my character. More questions:
- What is our gestalt characters' favored class? Do we even get favored class?
- We start off knowing just Draconic?
- Are feats from Paizo but not from the Core Rule Book Allowed? For example: Hamtula Grasp
you start of speaking common and draconic and extra languages from a high inteligence
im only going to a allow feats from core rules and bestiary
you do get your favoured class bonus
Im not allowing people to multiclass as it would just get complicated so you will always retain you favoured class bonuus
also wilhelm, out of curiosity how did you get a 26 strength?
re: 26 STR
Start off with 17 STR from base. Added 8 to get 25. Finally, added +1 at lvl 4 ability score increase to get 26.
re: core feats only
Too bad, but I understand. Some of the material from other pathfinder sources are interesting, but might complicate the game in unexpected ways. I respect your decision.
I am finally done with my character!
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
Just posting to show there's some progress. :)
a few things i would like to say
we are playing a high powered game so we will all make mistakes, i hope that does not ruin peoples fun too much
also i will try to keep the game going, mostly by pushing you in certian directions, but i am always open to you doing something else
and i am a bit concerned about having a DMPC so if at any stage you feel he is overshadowing the rest of you and you are unhappy please say,
obviously Aurion will be good at fighting evil outsiders, evil dragons and evil undead. but please tell me if he gets too annoying!
and finally sherren, good roleplaying so far!
Wilhem wrote: re: 26 STR
Start off with 17 STR from base. Added 8 to get 25. Finally, added +1 at lvl 4 ability score increase to get 26.
re: core feats only
Too bad, but I understand. Some of the material from other pathfinder sources are interesting, but might complicate the game in unexpected ways. I respect your decision.
re str 26:i forgot all about that!!
have other people remembered to add in stat mods for level 4 and 8
re feats I am only just getting a grasp on pathfinder core rules, when i understand it better then we can start adding in other feats
Male Sliver Dragon Silver Dragon/Cleric lvl 8
Raven34 wrote: a few things i would like to say
we are playing a high powered game so we will all make mistakes, i hope that does not ruin peoples fun too much
also i will try to keep the game going, mostly by pushing you in certian directions, but i am always open to you doing something else
and i am a bit concerned about having a DMPC so if at any stage you feel he is overshadowing the rest of you and you are unhappy please say,
obviously Aurion will be good at fighting evil outsiders, evil dragons and evil undead. but please tell me if he gets too annoying!
and finally sherren, good roleplaying so far!
I'm fine with having a DMPC, he is doing a good job right now. For how long will he be alive is the question. For the future, specially with a very open scenario, a good push in one direction can help the flow of the game.
With this kind of game, it is also difficult for you to judge the encounter level to put us against, specially as we have not fully grasped the advantage of our forms.
Quote: have other people remembered to add in stat mods for level 4 and 8 Damn, forgot about that.
i thought it is worth saying that i am finding GMing this game really fun but quite challenging too, I want to thank the players for helping me out when i make a mistake.
I have intenionaly given you all a hard encounter to start with, its to give the hatchlings an idea of how tough the world is, on the day they are born they are in a tougher fight then most people ever face in their entire lives
and the pc's are most likely going to survive the encounter which shows the hatchlings how powerful they already are
Also we can all learn about our characters abilities and how too best to use them
my thoughts so far re tactics (from a PC point of view)
heren and Gharz started with a brilliant combo of prayer and haste which turned Aurion into a killing machine
zarrosh's grappling is very effective except it may leave him with a minus on dex and him being flanked, but the idea of a meduim humaiod pinning a giant is great!
we all have quite low ACs which mean that the bad guys are power attacking and not missing
i have only played a level 1 core rules paladin before
and i had not appreciated how obscene the damage a paladin does against evil outsiders evilundead and evil dragons.
Female Human Ranger 7
Raven34 wrote: i thought it is worth saying that i am finding GMing this game really fun but quite challenging too, I want to thank the players for helping me out when i make a mistake.
You're welcome. The game is so far challenging because we have to think dragon and human.
Raven34 wrote:
Also we can all learn about our characters abilities and how too best to use them
my thoughts so far re tactics (from a PC point of view)
heren and Gharz started with a brilliant combo of prayer and haste which turned Aurion into a killing machine
zarrosh's grappling is very effective except it may leave him with a minus on dex and him being flanked, but the idea of a meduim humaiod pinning a giant is great!
we all have quite low ACs which mean that the bad guys are power attacking and not missing.
Tactics wise, I think the most difficult will be to remember to use 3D and flyby attacks not to get caught by our low AC.
Raven34 wrote:
i have only played a level 1 core rules paladin before
and i had not appreciated how obscene the damage a paladin does against evil outsiders evilundead and evil dragons.
Wait till levell 11 when he can share his bonus with the others...
Male Sliver Dragon Silver Dragon/Cleric lvl 8
Alia Wolfsdottir wrote:
Wait till levell 11 when he can share his bonus with the others...
Oups, wrong avatar, sorry.
i think it is quite well balanced having our abilities based on our HD, Gold dragons are more powerful but under this system they get their abilities later, weaker dragon types get the benefts of older dragons much earlier
do people agree?
M Gold Dragon Barbarian 8
I might be a wyrmling, but don't underestimate me! *fierce masculine war cry
Personally, I think it's really silly for a raging barbarian to transform into a SMALL dragon, but looking at the starting abilities, it certainly makes sense.
Zarroshduvar wrote: I might be a wyrmling, but don't underestimate me! *fierce masculine war cry
Personally, I think it's really silly for a raging barbarian to transform into a SMALL dragon, but looking at the starting abilities, it certainly makes sense.
for the size, i think that wyrmlinng gold dragons are the strongest creature! they must have serious muscles packed into a really small frame
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
HI, just a post to ask a question to clear something up with the character generation.
How many, and where from, Feats do characters get?
Are people using the Gestalt rules?
Just need this little something cleared up, thanks. :)
Cheers!
Sherrenasaerenalia / Shaya wrote: HI, just a post to ask a question to clear something up with the character generation.
How many, and where from, Feats do characters get?
Are people using the Gestalt rules?
Just need this little something cleared up, thanks. :)
Cheers!
hiya! as a druid you will get 4 feats (total) and can take them from core rules or the bestiary
and yes we are using a version of the gestalt rules as metentioned in unearthed arcana
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
Raven34 wrote: hiya! as a druid you will get 4 feats (total) and can take them from core rules or the bestiary
and yes we are using a version of the gestalt rules as mentioned in unearthed arcana
*Takes notes* okay, I'm pretty sure I'm all clear now. Will sit down and work out which feats stay and which go.
Expect that egg to hatch SOON!
Much cheers!
Sherren
You character is mostly ok but I have a few comments and question
Summon nature's ally does not need to be memorized
Instead of armour being dragon hide it will be something similar (just not dragon skin!)
Feats, wild casting is ok
But why Catch off guard?
And what are the source books for Maximize Breath Weapon and 'Clinging' Breath Weapon
If they are not in core rules or the bestiary then I am sorry but at the moment they are not allowed,
Also I think you should only be a very young dragon
Don’t worry too much about the mistakes (misunderstandings), I am running a high level campaign with dragon PCs! Mistakes and misunderstandings will happen often
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
Response to Raven34
1)Summon nature's ally does not need to be memorized: Really? I thought it was a spell just like any other?
2)Instead of armor being dragon hide it will be something similar (just not dragon skin!): Um, okay though to my mind I don't see the problem. :P
3)Feats, wild casting is ok, but why Catch off guard?: Because versatility and flexibility give one better options in combat. ;)
4)What are the source books for Maximize Breath Weapon and 'Clinging' Breath Weapon?: They are from the "Draconomicon" a wonderful book chock full of law and information on Dragons.
"Maximize Breath weapon" is basically like the 'meta-magic[' feat "Maximize Spell". So instead of variable damage, the maximum amount possible is applied. Causes the Dragon to not be able to use their breath weapon again for four rounds.
"Clinging Breath weapon" Causes a residual effect so that the breath weapon attack remains in effect for a second round upon the target, causing half damage. Think the electro-blast that got R2-D2, ;)
5)If they are not in core rules or the bestiary then I am sorry but at the moment they are not allowed: This is kind of a bugger, but I shall swap those two out for two of the feats I other wise dropped. But I shall await an actual order from you before I do drop/swap them out. :)
6)Also I think you should only be a very young dragon: Yes, I have taken the stats, size etc for Very young. I just don't think in the changes I made all the right corrections to the character information. The sizes given and everything else should match what you've previously posted.
One question: The stat improvements that one gains at 4th and 8th level, to which form can/could they be applied?
Don’t worry too much about the mistakes (misunderstandings), I am running a high level campaign with dragon PCs! Mistakes and misunderstandings will happen often
hiya Sherren, in fairness to other players you will have to take feats from core rules or the bestiary, sorry
also regarding stats, you should only have one set of stats (these are the stats as a dragon), it should be the same for both forms except that you apply size modifiers
so if you are a medium humaniod and a medium sized dragon your stats are identical but if you are a medium sized Humaniod and a large dragon then you will find that your strength will be higher and you dex lower as a large dragon (does this make sense)
all druids can convert any of their memorized spells into a summon nature's ally
the dragon hide thing may cause a problem when around other dragons, im not saying that you cant have dragon hide later im just saying that drumas would not have had some made for you
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
Response to Raven34:
1)Hiya Sherren, in fairness to other players you will have to take feats from core rules or the bestiary, sorry:Not to worry, will swap them two out for, um, those other two...*nods*:P
2)Also regarding stats, you should only have one set of stats (these are the stats as a dragon), it should be the same for both forms except that you apply size modifiers
so if you are a medium humanoid and a medium sized dragon your stats are identical but if you are a medium sized Humanoid and a large dragon then you will find that your strength will be higher and you dex lower as a large dragon (does this make sense) >.< Um, noope, brain melting here now...help?
3)All druids can convert any of their memorized spells into a summon nature's allyDidn't know that. I don't think I've ever actually played a Druid n 3.X so in a way this is all new to me. Will adjust the whole spell list/choice soon. *nods*
4)The dragon hide thing may cause a problem when around other dragons, I'm not saying that you cant have dragon hide later I'm just saying that Drumas would not have had some made for you: Heh, no worries. Am happy for the items to be made of something equivalent so my druid can use them. Uber-bullettte hide?
Sherrenasaerenalia / Shaya wrote: Response to Raven34:
1)Hiya Sherren, in fairness to other players you will have to take feats from core rules or the bestiary, sorry:Not to worry, will swap them two out for, um, those other two...*nods*:P
2)Also regarding stats, you should only have one set of stats (these are the stats as a dragon), it should be the same for both forms except that you apply size modifiers
so if you are a medium humanoid and a medium sized dragon your stats are identical but if you are a medium sized Humanoid and a large dragon then you will find that your strength will be higher and you dex lower as a large dragon (does this make sense) >.< Um, noope, brain melting here now...help?
3)All druids can convert any of their memorized spells into a summon nature's allyDidn't know that. I don't think I've ever actually played a Druid n 3.X so in a way this is all new to me. Will adjust the whole spell list/choice soon. *nods*
4)The dragon hide thing may cause a problem when around other dragons, I'm not saying that you cant have dragon hide later I'm just saying that Drumas would not have had some made for you: Heh, no worries. Am happy for the items to be made of something equivalent so my druid can use them. Uber-bullettte hide?
i just realised that your stats are the same anyway
you are a meduim sized humaniod and a medium sized dragon!!
so your stats do not change!
in the future when you become a bigger dragon you will become stronger
and less dexterous while in dragon form
have a look at the spells enlarge and reduce person to see what happens when you change size
In RL terms your will only have to worry about this every several months or so and i can tell you what you stat changes are then
can anyone else explain this better than me please!!!!!
regarding feats, i am really not trying to be mean!!
remember that any new feats i allow you, i would also allow your enemies!
you are very very tough for you age, so if you were to ever fight another dragon it would be a lot older than you (for game balance) so imagine if you were fighting a red dragon who was a few age categories higher than you and she used a breath weapon with those two feats, half of the pc's would be turned to ash (zarrosh, Gharz and Aurion would survive!!!)
do you see what i am getting at?
Female Bronze Dragon (Young) Druid 8
I does indeed. Now I just need some free time to make the adjustments.
Cheers!
Shaya /Sherrenasaerenalia wrote: I does indeed. Now I just need some free time to make the adjustments.
Cheers!
free time! i remember having that once!!
Male Sliver Dragon Silver Dragon/Cleric lvl 8
On a completely different subject, i'll be off on holydays from this saturday to the next, without computer or internet access. Please feel free to take over Herensuge.
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