I'm currently trying to make a finesse-based fighter work in a game, and was looking at ways to up the damage potential. Unfortunately there isn't much - you can take the combat expertise based feats, but when it comes to actually sticking someone where it hurts, there aren't many options.
Now Power Attack works OK for the heavy smiters, and if you attack at range, Deadly Aim works too, and I was thinking about adding a feat to apply extra damage to a finesseable weapon along the same principal when I thought, "hang on, if you can aim an arrow to do more damage, surely you can aim a rapier for more damage?"
So here's a question for you all:
Should Deadly Aim apply to finesseable weapons? (not does it, because as written it doesn't, I know that and don't need to be told it, but should it)
Should we have a separate feat for finesseable weapons?
Should I just forget it?
You do realize that power attack works on finessable weapons, right? The limitations on power attack were in 3.5- in 3.PF, you take a penalty to attack rolls and you get a bonus to damage on any melee weapon. How the weapon is wielded (1h, 2h, off-hand) changes how much damage you receive, but there are literally no limitations on which weapons you can or can't use.
Yes, it doesn't seem very intuitive, but I just consider it like I do deadly aim- there's no more power in the attack, you're just focusing a little harder to make your hits count for more.
Also, this is totally rad for Elves, who can finesse & power attack with their racial weapon (curve blade). It's two handed & high crit range.
Nifty! I stand corrected and happy about it!
You do realize that power attack works on finessable weapons, right? The limitations on power attack were in 3.5- in 3.PF, you take a penalty to attack rolls and you get a bonus to damage on any melee weapon. How the weapon is wielded (1h, 2h, off-hand) changes how much damage you receive, but there are literally no limitations on which weapons you can or can't use.
Yes, it doesn't seem very intuitive, but I just consider it like I do deadly aim- there's no more power in the attack, you're just focusing a little harder to make your hits count for more.
Also, this is totally rad for Elves, who can finesse & power attack with their racial weapon (curve blade). It's two handed & high crit range.
The only problem is that power attack still requires a 13 strength. If you are doing a high dex rogue/bard, you may not have the strength for it.
A simple house rule would be that you can qualify for power attack if you have 13 dex and weapon finesse.
Yes, that's a point. Perhaps it would make more sense if Deadly Aim could apply to finesseable weapons and Power Attack to non-finesseable weapons?
In my houserules, there's a feat for that called
Fencing[Combat]
You have learned to make pinpoint attacks against enemies.
Prerequisite: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a
+2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an
attack with a weapon using weapon finesse in one hand and hold nothing in the other. This bonus to damage is
halved (–50%) if you are using a two‐handed weapon or a weapon in each hand. When your base attack bonus
reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by
+2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The
bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Probably important to include a clause on that feat, so it cannot be used simultaneously with Power Attack.
In my houserules, there's a feat for that called
Fencing[Combat]
You have learned to make pinpoint attacks against enemies.
Prerequisite: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1
Benefit: You can choose to take a -1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a
+2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an
attack with a weapon using weapon finesse in one hand and hold nothing in the other. This bonus to damage is
halved (-50%) if you are using a two-handed weapon or a weapon in each hand. When your base attack bonus
reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by -1 and the bonus to damage increases by
+2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The
bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
I like that - can I steal it?
Probably important to include a clause on that feat, so it cannot be used simultaneously with Power Attack.
Makes sense. It's an alternate PA, after all.
I like that - can I steal it?
Not if you ask permission - it's not stealing any more.
But sure, go ahead and use it. I wouldn't have posted it if I were against people using it.
Got a personal email - I want to send you my bank account number so you can transfer the royalties to me ;-)
13 Strength is NOT hard to get at all. Even if you don't start out with it, there are numerous ways to get it that high ranging from leveling up, magical items, class abilities, etc.
Just off of the top of my head...
...Add a point every 4 levels
...Belt of Strength
...Manual of Gainful Exercise
...Tranmuter's physical enhancement class feature
...Barbarian's rage
...Bull's Strength spell
...Enlarge person
...and Polymorph spell that adds Strength
Oh I don't disagree that it's hard to get, but that's not the point. The point is that if you are gaining damage through precision, strength shouldn't be a factor. In a low point score, low magic game you have to devote a lot of resources into getting a 13 strength that confers you no other advantage than getting a feat advantage it strictly shouldn't apply to.