Hi, I am trying to make a character for a game that my friend is running, and I am wanting to make a rogue base that prestiges out into something that plays around with shadow powers, stealth, and sneak attack increases. I immediately went for Telflammar Shadowlord out of Forgotten Realms (Unapproachable East), unfortunately there is a huge list of restrictions that the gm has implemented: No 3pp, no setting specific books, no Bo9S, and no psionics. We are allowed to take a low level non-standard race, but no templates.
So are there any classes or races other than Shadowdancer (which is a neat class but doesn't increase your sneak attack dice) that are shadow themed and gain shadow powers along with sneak attack, and match the aforementioned criteria???
Thanks in advance!
Sadly, Rogues get stiffed pretty hard in PF when it comes to PrC.
You pretty much get one option, Shadowdancer, as Assassins are not allowable in 99.999999% of campaigns due to the daft 'Evil' restriction (why they did that I'll never know). Less said about the Duellist the better.
Really the option (using only PF) is to take a straight rogue with a decent CHA or INT and take a dip or two in Sorc or Wiz for extra powers.
Failing that you can take the Magic aligned Rogue Talents and also have a crack at asking for the trait that gives you a free 1x day cantrip.
It's maybe not the 'mechanics' you are after, but with some fluff and the right dressing...
(Footnote: I do actually like your GM's style)
I don't really know how anybody on the boards is going to be able to help you, if you're limited to core books. We've got all the same options you do to work with, and shadowdancer is the one, only, and obvious choice for you in this vein.
You could perhaps try and persuade your DM to let you take sneak attack increases as feats, or in lieu of the rogue talent options within the class. The talents only come every 3rd level, but at least you'd be getting something. The class feels a tad underpowered in combat anyhow, so I'd probably let you get away with it in one of my own games.
Your other core book option is to multiclass rogue and sorcerer, then go into arcane trickster. You'd have to do the trappings yourself, but there are a fair number of darkness-related spells you could pick up.
Either way, play a tiefling!
Either way, play a tiefling!
Not in the Core book :p
Not in the Core book ;p
Actually, they're mentioned on page 406 in the Core Rulebook as a possible alternative race and they are in the Bestiary.
Not in the Core book ;pActually, they're mentioned on page 406 in the Core Rulebook as a possible alternative race and they are in the Bestiary.
And more importantly, the OP specifically said the GM was permitting nonstandard races. Tieflings even have their playable rules included in their entry, so there's no conversion effort required!
And more importantly, the OP specifically said the GM was permitting nonstandard races. Tieflings even have their playable rules included in their entry, so there's no conversion effort required!
Actually, this is true!
Seems an odd choice in light of the restrictions, but thats GM Fiat - so play ball! :)
The Shadow Assassin is a great shadow-themed roguish class, which dovetails nicely into either Assassin or Shadowdancer. It's also available as a PDF very cheaply :P
It's hard to know how you should do this. What I would do for a shadow-themed roguish guy, is make a rogue with a single level of transmuter. Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Ghost Sound and Mage Hand are nice cantrips, and for your first level spells I'd pick Cloud of No Light (Obscuring Mists), Living Shadows (Unseen Servant), Fleeting Shades (Expedious Retreat) or anything along those lines.
Most rogues should have a int of at least 12, so you should be able to cast 2 first level spells per day. Some spells are extremely useful out of combat even though they're low level, and a spell like Expedious Retreat can be useful even in combat.
Maybe I'm missing something, but based on the OP, it sounds to me like they may be playing something 3.x, what with the mention of FR and UE, Bo9S. I may be mistaken, but if he is, a)seems to be a mis-thread, b)none of the PFRPG advice will help out.
Can we get some clarification please?
My take is that the OP is wanting to include that 3.X stuf and port it across as being 'compatible', and the GM is sticking to Core Pathfinder.
If that's the case then I'm with the GM. Pathfinder is a great time to make a clean start away from all that 3.X guff! :p
Maybe I'm missing something, but based on the OP, it sounds to me like they may be playing something 3.x, what with the mention of FR and UE, Bo9S. I may be mistaken, but if he is, a)seems to be a mis-thread, b)none of the PFRPG advice will help out.
Can we get some clarification please?
My take is that the OP is wanting to include that 3.X stuf and port it across as being 'compatible', and the GM is sticking to Core Pathfinder.
If that's the case then I'm with the GM. Pathfinder is a great time to make a clean start away from all that 3.X guff! :p
My interpretation was that the GM wasn't treating WotC books as third party since there is specific mention of disallowed WotC book (Bo9S).
"No 3pp, no setting specific books, no Bo9S, and no psionics"
I would read that to mean Paizo books allowed, WotC books allowed except Bo9S and setting-specific books, and no psionics.
Of course if your "no setting specific books" includes no Pathfinder Chronicles books then you're significantly more limited, but that's not clear to me from the initial post.
In 3.5e WotC accessories, a couple that come to mind are the Dread Commando that gets ability to wear heavier armor in stealth with lessened penalties and gives benefits to allies (in Complete Warrior or Complete Adventurer, I forget which), Slayer of Domiel in Book of Exalted Deeds (good-aligned assassin dedicated to a celestial paragon, basically, but I don't think it gets HiPS), and in Complete Champion there's a prestige class for rogues that serve the Sun god (Pelor in that case), that allows the character to make HiPS checks but only while in direct Sunlight.
Really though, the shadowdancer doesn't get sneak attack dice as a class feature, but the shadow companion is a great benefit of the class that gets overlooked IMO. You've got a flanking buddy with concealment and a strength sapping attack, and in PRPG it has more hitpoints than it had in 3.5e. (It can be turned in PRPG, which it couldn't in 3.5e though, so that hurts it some.)
There really is no better "PrC" than "more Rogue levels."
The Tome of Magic has some Shadowcaster-based PrCs that are roguey. I think one has full BAB, another has full Sudden Strike, which is ALMOST sneak attack.
Too bad you can't use templates....the Dark Creature template in the Tome of Magic is only +1, and gives you Hide in Plain Sight, +8 Hide/+6 Move Silently (we houseruled +7 Stealth for Pathfinder for my Dark Whisper Gnome Ninja), +10 Speed, darkvision, superior lowlight vision, and Cold Resistance 10.
Too bad you can't use templates....the Dark Creature template in the Tome of Magic is only +1, and gives you Hide in Plain Sight, +8 Hide/+6 Move Silently (we houseruled +7 Stealth for Pathfinder for my Dark Whisper Gnome Ninja), +10 Speed, darkvision, superior lowlight vision, and Cold Resistance 10.
That can't possibly be only +1 LA. I think that +1 is CR, so the LA is a lot higher!
Too bad you can't use templates....the Dark Creature template in the Tome of Magic is only +1, and gives you Hide in Plain Sight, +8 Hide/+6 Move Silently (we houseruled +7 Stealth for Pathfinder for my Dark Whisper Gnome Ninja), +10 Speed, darkvision, superior lowlight vision, and Cold Resistance 10.That can't possibly be only +1 LA. I think that +1 is CR, so the LA is a lot higher!
It is +1. I thought about having that template for my shadow scout, but the DM hates HIPS and so has banned it, and that got rid of much of the appeal for me.
So I went for the Shadow Creature Template from Manual of the Planes, with modifications as per the 3.5 Accessory Update, with the Savage Species levelling option from Dragon 322.
It's nice, but the loss of HP, skills, feats, bab and saves as you take those two levels is one to consider carefully...
Incidentally, that issue has a lot going for it, shadow character-wise...
It's CR +1. The base abilities might be LA +1, but when you add in the abilities by HD and then the skill boost, it is firmly in LA +2 at the least.
It's CR +1. The base abilities might be LA +1, but when you add in the abilities by HD and then the skill boost, it is firmly in LA +2 at the least.
This sounds like the same Dark Creature template that's in Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave. It's listed as LA +1. It has no hit dice of its own to add to the ECL so it's LA and ECL both figure as +1.
Its CR is listed as "same as base creature or base creature +1, depending on creature."
I didn't mention it through because he said no templates and I didn't mention it because my version of it appears in a campaign-specific book.
Aw come on guys, look at that template... it's so wussy it's laughable. Hide in plain sight is a decent ability, but the rest have ample precedent in 1st level core/ bestiary playable races. Dwarves get darkvision, barbarians get +10 speed, halflings get +4 to hide, tieflings get resist cold 5...
Think of those abilities as a replacement core racial template. Would you rather be a halfling, or a shadow thing? It's a hard decision. If you assume regular racial traits are a transparent ECL+1 (which they are), this one definitely isn't so much better that it justifies more than (an additional) ECL+1.
That said, bar the improved stealth bit, it's abilities seem kinda all over the place for a shadowy character. It might very well not be worth the hassle of selling a conservative GM on it's use.
I have to recomend the Shadow Assasin class, it fits exactly with the type of character you mention.
agreed