So I am thinjing about the whole black powder cannons and magic and I came up with the question: Should the cannons themselves be magical OR should it just be the cannonball itself? Let me hear your opinions on this. Thanks!
So I am thinjing about the whole black powder cannons and magic and I came up with the question: Should the cannons themselves be magical OR should it just be the cannonball itself? Let me hear your opinions on this. Thanks!
One thought is maybe to have the cannonballs be the magical part. Ammo is usually crafted cheaper than the weapon. A magical cannon can then be something that fires something other than cannonballs. Maybe a spell effect. Also you could make a whole category of alchemical shots. Potions poured into cannonballs that provide an effect.
So I am thinjing about the whole black powder cannons and magic and I came up with the question: Should the cannons themselves be magical OR should it just be the cannonball itself? Let me hear your opinions on this. Thanks!
Both. Some of the cannons can be more like movable non-sentient constructs that are clockwork / steamwork, whatever. The cannonballs can also have orb type properties where they could be infused with acid, cold, electricity, sonic, fire, etc.
I vote both.
You could go with cannon = action enchantments, ammo = effects enchantments pretty much like range weapons and ammo now.
Also, consider a magical cannon may not fire a projectile at all, it could shoot magical energy bursts. I did guns that way, so I didn't have to re-vamp everything or completely nerf them. Of course, I had this industrial magic gearkrieg sorta thing going on so there was a lot of room for anachronisms.
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So I am thinjing about the whole black powder cannons and magic and I came up with the question: Should the cannons themselves be magical OR should it just be the cannonball itself? Let me hear your opinions on this. Thanks!
This is kind of an offshoot of the fundamental question of how society has advanced / is advancing technologically. If the cannons are black-powder based it suggests that old magic is being displaced by new science. OTOH if your firearms are magically based then your society is developing further in the magical "magictech" direction and is mostly bypassing rational physics and chemistry.
As a matter of gameplay, if the cannons are magically based then they would likely be vulnerable to anti-magic effects and the like.
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The cannon and shot should be subject to enchantment. One could take the view of these implements being parallel to the bow and arrow; they are the mechanism of launch and the projectile. Gunpowder would be another matter. It is would be the equivalent of the strength of the archer in that it provides the force.
Spells that are cast upon the archer (i.e. - true strike) do not affect the power of the shot, just the effectiveness of the archer's ability to make an accurate shot. As such, these spells could still be cast upon the gunner, with similar adjustment to the attack roll.
Just my 2cp.
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The cannon and shot should be subject to enchantment. One could take the view of these implements being parallel to the bow and arrow; they are the mechanism of launch and the projectile.
I agree. I'd like to see predominantly regular old non-magical cannons, although you could establish that the black powder is a magical/alchemical thing (like in the Iron Kingdoms) but whatever the source of the powder, a cannon is an iron tube filled with it and a ball on top. Like arrows and bows, both the cannons and the balls could be enchanted - +1, +2, flame burst, etc., plus I'm sure some ballistic-only enhancements, like shrapnel - but still, a cannon firing a ball. There might be some rare magic cannons that just shoot fire or force balls, but not many. Otherwise you get too close to the who wand-rifle thing and magic laser guns. A wind-rifle might be cool, but 10 on every ship is silly. Obviously this is all just my opinion but I like my cannons hot and smokey.
Canons of at least MW quality could be enchanted to have an enhancement bonus (ie +1 enhancement) put on them and special abilities (flaming). If I was to have a ship with multiple canon's and had access to a wizard (ship wizard) then I would most definately spend the time and money to have those weapons enchanted. That what is all boils down to, do you have the money and the time to enchant your weapons. I could even see a druid on a ship firing a flaming sphere from a special canon that once it hits, the druid starts to roll the sphere around =)
my 2cp
Cannons, masterwork or otherwise, that can handle a hollowed out cannonball filled with Greek fire and a second weapon that launches a fire attack. Fire is the enemy of ships and there is no easy access in the sky to water, after all, unless you can make it rain.
I want there to be certain spells that you can cast on magical cannonballs that will activate when the cannonball hits, like stinking cloud for example. I don't want the cannons themselves to be able to "fire" magic spells.
One word: Alchemunitions. ;-)
Three words: I 'm stealling that! Thanks!
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How about cannon balls that turn into or release swarms on impact, or that are actually small constructs that unfold and attack.
Or get really nasty and have them do summon monster when they hit. Nothing like shooting fire elementals into the middle of an army. Course there's the eco friendly ammunition that plane shifts the enemies to a plane of your choosing.
One thing I'm doing for my homebrew is adding firearms, but with a twist. The projectile is a physical manifestation of arcane/divine energy.
A cannonball would be more like an eldritch grenade that could be laced with geomagnetic (I need to work up a Geomancer base class) and electric anergy and thus be treated asn an EMP weapon.
What if a cannanbal hits a PC, should they be killed outright, just take certain amount of damages? Tell me what you think.
hmm... a cannibalizing cannonball.
What if a cannanbal hits a PC, should they be killed outright, just take certain amount of damages? Tell me what you think.
This really depends on the target level range. Off the cuff, I would rule a cannonball deals 10d6+10 bludgeoning damage. Ones fused to detonate are another matter.
EDIT: I am referencing ship cannon, analagous to (if memory serves) '12-pounder' ship-to-ship and ship-to-shore weapons.
It depends on the energy type of the cannonball (if any) and the immunities of the opponent (if any). Let the damage do the trick; I don't think anyone wants to have an insta-kill on a successful hit. Let the dice fall where they roll.
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What if a cannanbal hits a PC, should they be killed outright, just take certain amount of damages? Tell me what you think.
Well my view is this. If a cannonball "hits" a PC then it should be really a near hit. Meaning it hit something next to them causing wood splinters to explode in shrapnel like effect and do a lot of damage.
For me I would never say a cannon ball actually hit the PC unless the damage was enough to drop the PC anyways. Which is more fluff than crunch rules there. But thats just my opinion.
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Maybe allow a Reflex save or something for half vs. full damage... and full damage ought to be a lot, even for a regular non-magical cannonball. But no, I'd don't thing it ought to be an auto-kill. It's not realistic at all, but auto-kill just aren't much fun. And this is a game of heroic fantasy where things like lava don't instantly kill you either. At some point, HPs are an abstraction representing your ability to avoid damage, not just actual physical damage, so taking a hit from a cannonball that doesn't kill you represents you being grazed or something, or your magic armor deflecting some of the force, etc. Like Dark_Mistress said.
One thing to remember is that cannon - especially Age of Sail as these sound - are not exactly precision weapons readily able to accurately target one moving humanoid target.
Cannons are great for shooting up massed infantry formations, massed critter formations, structures and so on. Many did not outright die from the bouncing cannon balls caroming across the battlefield. The massive bleed out from limbs being shorn off / internal bleeding / fragmentation damage from various things / death by trauma / etc. etc. also maimed, killed, etc etc.
Abstracting this to (massive-scale) hit point damage is appropriate. One could integrate a Fortitude saving throw (DC = 1/2 damage dealt by cannon) to not suffer something requiring regenerate to fix.
Here are the OGL Gunpowder Hanggun Weapon rules that we are planning to us for Pirates of the Bronze Sky which are based off on the Open Content from GeekRelated.com. Take a look:
Black Powder Firearms for Pirates of the Bronze Sky: Handguns
The current state of the art in personal firearms is a smoothbore weapon with a wheellock firing mechanism. Earlier matchlocks, which required a lit match held in a “matchlock” to fire, and the even earlier hand culverins, which required manual application of a lit match, are still in circulation but no regular forces use them.
Though most firearms come from the mass production gunworks of the Monarchy weapon forges, there are skilled craftsmen in other locations that can and do build firearms.
The smiths of the Monarchy weapon forges have just developed snaplocks, but have kept the innovation to themselves so far. More reliable and inexpensive flintlocks are doubtless not far behind. A couple artisans have made rifled hunting weapons but these are still unique curiosities.
Name Cost D (S) D (M) Crit Range Weight Type
One-Handed Ranged Weapons
Pistol 250 gp 1d6 2d4 x3 50 ft. 3 lbs. P
Blunderbuss pistol 500 gp 1d10 2d6 19-20/x2 5 ft. 5 lbs. B and P
Two-Handed Ranged Weapons
Musket, short 500 gp 1d10 2d6 x3 100 ft. 8 lbs. P
Musket, long 750 gp 1d10 2d6 x3 150 ft. 10 lbs. P
Blunderbuss 500 gp 1d12 3d6 19-20/x2 15 ft. 8 lbs. B and P
Explosive Weapons
Bomb 150 gp 1d10 2d6 x2 5 ft. 1 lb. B
Smoke bomb 70 gp Smoke x2 10 ft. 1 lb. –
Proficiency: All wheellock weapons require Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) to use without penalty.
Reload: All wheellock weapons hold one shot and take two full round actions to load. Reloading takes two hands and provokes attacks of opportunity.
Inaccurate: All non-rifled firearms have an inherent -1 to hit penalty.
Exploding Dice: Whenever you deal damage with a firearm and roll maximum on any damage die, reroll that die and add that roll to the total as well. If you roll maximum on rerolls, continue to reroll, adding to the damage each time.
Misfire: Whenever you roll a natural 1 on an attack roll made with a firearm, your firearm might misfire. Immediately roll 1d20. On a 1, the firearm is broken and the powder explodes out the breech, dealing the weapon’s damage to you; on a 2–7, the firearm is broken; on a 8–18, the firearm misfires and is fouled; and on a 19–20, it simply misfires. A fouled firearm requires 2 full rounds to clear before it can be reloaded.
Melee: Pistols may be used as saps and muskets as clubs in melee combat, but they are reasonably fragile and whenever you roll a natural 1 on the attack roll the weapon is broken.
Pistols have a hardness of 10 and 10 hit points; long weapons have a hardness of 10 and 20 hit points.
Weapon Descriptions
Pistol: a single shot wheellock pistol.
Blunderbuss Pistol: Also known as a dragon, this is a large pistol with a bell-shaped barrel. A blunderbuss pistol’s damage suffers a -2 penalty per range increment beyond the first.
Musket, short: A wheellock musket with a short barrel suitable for use in close quarters. Also known as an arquebus.
Musket, long: A wheellock musket with a 4 foot long barrel. The long musket must be braced on something or else suffer a -2 penalty to hit. Many such muskets come with a inherent pintle mount so that they can be braced while standing; it requires a move action to set up the pintle.
Blunderbuss: This is a heavy musket with a bell-shaped barrel, also referred to as a musketoon. A blunderbuss’ damage suffers a -2 penalty per range increment beyond the first.
Bomb: A bomb, also known as a grenade, is thrown as a splash weapon. It requires one full round action to prepare and light. Once thrown, it explodes and does damage to everyone in a 5’ radius from the target or target square. Bombs do 2d6 damage to a directly targeted creature and 2d4 splash damage.
Smoke bomb: A smoke bomb is thrown as a splash weapon, and puts out a 10’ radius cloud of smoke. It requires one full round action to prepare and light. The smoke dissipates normally.
Coming next ... Cannons!!!
Black Powder Weapons for Pirates of the Bronze Sky: Cannons & Field Grade Weapons
Most cannon are cast bronze, smooth bore, muzzleloading weapons, although some are breech-loading and older ones are constructed of iron bars welded and bound together. Because they are expensive and rare, many cannons are ornately carved and decorated, and larger ones often have unique names.
Cannon
Name Cost Damage Weight Range Mount Crew Ready
Bombard 10,000 gp 12d10 8000 lbs. 400 ft. - 6 10/4
Cannon 8,000 gp 10d10 6000 lbs. 300 ft. Very Heavy 5 6/3
Demi-cannon 6,000 gp 8d10 4000 lbs. 250 ft. Heavy 4 5/2
Culverin 4,000 gp 6d10 3000 lbs. 200 ft. Medium 3 4/2
Small culverin 2,000 gp 4d10 2000 lbs. 150 ft. Light 2 3/2
Swivel-gun 1,000 gp 2d10/4d6 200 lbs. 100 ft./25 ft. - 1 2/1
Damage: Assuming solid shot, this is the damage done on a direct hit. Cannon (with the exception of swivel-guns) cannot effectively be aimed at a specific person, but instead are aimed at a specific area with the intent of damaging a structure. Monsters that are size Huge or larger can be individually targeted (assuming they stay still for the several rounds needed to aim and fire the weapon). When a cannon hits its target area, it only does its listed damage to that 10×10x10 part of the structure, not any creature there. (On a natural 20, the cannon hits an unlucky person in that area dead on and does full damage to them as well.) However, cannons often do splash damage. If the cannon is using stone shot and firing into a stone environment (like most towns), this damage comes from stone fragments (slashing), or if the cannon is using any solid shot and firing into a wooden environment (like a ship), the damage comes from wooden shivers (piercing). Anyone in the 10×10 target area must make a DC 15 Reflex save or else take ¼ the direct damage inflicted by the shot from the fragments. For example, if a PC is hiding in a 10×10 wooden shack that is hit by a culverin inflicting 35 points of damage on the structure, he may take 8 points of fragment damage if he fails his save.
Crew: All members of the crew must have at least one rank in Profession: siege engineer.
Ready: Cannons all require the listed number of full round actions to reload and then aim with a normal crew. They must be re-aimed every time they are fired because their recoil moves them significantly out of place. If they are operated with a smaller crew than the listed minimum, the time it takes to reload them is proportionately longer.
Proficiency: All cannon require Profession: Siege Engineer (or Artillerist, or Cannoneer, or whatever you want to call it) to operate.
Inaccurate: All cannon have an inherent -4 to hit penalty due to the difficulty of aiming them precisely. This penalty may be reduced by 1 for every 5 points the gunner has in Profession: siege engineer. A gunner uses their base attack bonus, Int bonus, and other modifiers for range, vision, motion, etc. to determine their total attack bonus.
Misfire: Whenever you roll a natural 1 on an attack roll made with a cannon, the cannon might misfire. The crew chief must immediately roll a Profession: siege engineer check at DC 15 (the rest of the crew may assist). A successful check indicates that the wad simply misfired and the cannon must be reloaded. A failure by up to 5 indicates that the cannon is fouled and requires 2 full rounds to clear before it can be reloaded. A failure by up to 10 means that the cannon gains the broken condition and requires repair before further use. A natural 1 on this check means that the cannon has exploded and does its full normal damage to everyone and everything within 10 ft.
Weapon Descriptions
Bombard: Very large caliber front-loading cannon used in sieges. They fire hundred pound stone balls. Bombards are too large for most ships to carry. A variant of bombard that is used for indirect fire is called the mortars.
Cannon: A heavy bronze cannon firing a 36 to 50 pound shot, also known as a basilisk. These usually can only be placed on the bow mount of very large galleys.
Demi-Cannon: Also known as the cannon-perier, it fires a 24 pound shot. This is the heaviest weapon that can be fired from the side of a ship, and a large ship at that.
Culverin: The culverin is a medium cannon firing an 18 lb shot. These are the most common large weapon mounted broadside on sailing ships.
Small Culverin: Also known as the demi-culverin, this weapon fires a 10 lb shot and is suitable for mounting on many ships, including on the top deck.
Swivel-gun: Swivel-guns, which come in varieties also known as falcons, falconets, or robinets, can take a 1-2 pound solid shot or be filled with a dozen pistol shots. They do 2d10 damage with solid shot, but when loaded with pistol shot do 4d6 damage, less 2 points per range increment, in a 10×10 square. A gunner applies their Dexterity bonus to hit instead of their Int bonus with a swivel-gun.
Ammunition: stone or lead solid shot are the most common ordnance in cannon. There is also chain or bar shot which is effective against rigging (normal solid shot passes through rigging doing only minimum damage). Grapeshot or canister shot can also be used; this does not do structural damage but targets the crew, doing half the listed damage to all crew in a 10×10x10 area.
Louis,
Are you going to have pictures accompanying each types so that some of us who are not as familiar with some of the items have a better idea what they are to visualize its operation?
Louis, Are you going to have pictures accompanying each types so that some of us who are not as familiar with some of the items have a better idea what they are to visualize its operation?
I don't have them yet, but I do plan to have the artwork for them when I release product for PBS.
:P
:P
Sad, but true!
Inaccurate: All non-rifled firearms have an inherent -1 to hit penalty.
I've never had a group where anyone didn't just ignore inaccuracy penalties. Haha, minus all the double negatives, that means everybody ignores the penalties. Is there a way inaccuracy could be reflected without subtracting?
On that note, anytime anyone's ever rolled a misfire, they've tried to imagine up some kind of save roll or 10% roll or a craft check or some garbage to avoid any effect and it's always lead to a long drawn-out argument. Even players that 'love' misfires will claim every miss is a misfire and then BS their way out of it every time unless it's some catastrophic result for the party.
Roll of 1, jam until Craft check tinkering can be done works for me, but in my experience, anytime a chart or special mechanic for wild effects and what is used, players want to have fun with abusing it and ignoring it at their whim.
Really looks like great stuff otherwise though!
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Inaccurate: All non-rifled firearms have an inherent -1 to hit penalty.
I would model this on a sliding scale based on range, for example a -1 inaccuracy penalty for each full 15 or 20 ft (depending on the muzzle length) from the shooter to the target, on top of the standard distance penalties for ranged weapons.
Now, for some reason I keep thinking about creating a new prestige class for Pirates of Bronze Sky. How about Acrance Musketeers. Now that sounds like a useful prestige class.
Now, for some reason I keep thinking about creating a new prestige class for Pirates of Bronze Sky. How about Acrance Musketeers. Now that sounds like a useful prestige class.
You could also make this a variant of Arcane Archer.