Chronomancers in Golarion


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


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You may remember the 2e chronomancer book from 1995. It was, by most accounts, a troublesome, if fascinating trek.

Time-traveling mages are NOT what a GM wants to deal with, generally. All the same, I played a campaign (3.5 Red Steel hybrid, if it matters,) in which our party traveled through time (though we had no chronomancers, but we knew they existed), and it was a blast.

At 20th level, the goals of our campaign put us several thousand years into the past, and we literally f***ed with the threads of time, even seeing our own images in murals painted long before the PCs existed in real time.

I see the chronomancer class as a prestige class, in PF rules, if the GM allows it at all. Perhaps it should be an epic-level prestige class.

I just wonder if the chronomancer has any place in PF-style rules. It's certainly possible, if a GM allows it. What would it look like?

I'm guessing a generalist wizard taking a prestige class of some sort.

What do you think?


The 3.5 MWP Dragonlance sourcebook Legend of the Twins has a lot of "time" themed spells, including time traveling spells. I used those as my basis for a Chronomancer when I had one running around in my Realms campaign, but then again, she was an NPC, not what any of the players were running.


KnightErrantJR wrote:
The 3.5 MWP Dragonlance sourcebook Legend of the Twins has a lot of "time" themed spells, including time traveling spells. I used those as my basis for a Chronomancer when I had one running around in my Realms campaign, but then again, she was an NPC, not what any of the players were running.

Yes, they make great NPCs, especially at high levels. A PC chronomancer would be hard for a GM to manage.


Chronomancers make good "they aren't evil, but they still terrify the PCs" kind of villains, because the PCs don't even like the idea that the NPC might do something that could alter the timestream and change everything they know.

On the other hand, as PCs, they exacerbate the whole "divination" issue, i.e. how much do you tell the PCs about your future plans, do you have them, and if you hand out information, does that then force the campaign to march in that direction from then on.

Chronomancy because even more of an issue, because you have to answer all of those "can I change time" issues as well, and it opens up not only that the PCs can go anywhere in the campaign world that they might be able to find out about at certain levels (overland flight, teleport), but any time in the campaign setting.

I know one of the Realms "rules" on timetravel was that you couldn't change time, but you could make an alternate timeline, but that alternate timeline could become unstable and "merge" back into the original time, and also, most time travel ended after a year, so there was only so much time you could much around in the past.

Dark Archive

I personally like the idea. Everyone can agree that the very mention of "time-travel" by a player raises large, red warning flags almost before the words leave his mouth, but for Golarion the possibilities are interesting, given a little direction. Particularly, if Paizo went along with an idea like that, that would be a fantastic way to experience ancient Thassilon first-hand, granting the opportunity to work out some of the mysteries behind the civilization and why it fell. Hell, they did it already, to a certain extent, back in Age of Worms. It would be tricky, but if handled well would be very interesting.

Scarab Sages

Check out Mongooses Encyclopeadia Arcane. They had a time mage for 3e.. maybe 3.5.

Grand Lodge

I love the idea. I had a time traveler in Champions and had a blast. I didn't push the limits of the game though did drive the GM crazy during one fight when we were fighting a horde of demons, I'd wait until the party was almost dead then time port us away to heal then return us to one-half second after we left to resume the fight with us all at 100% strength again. We eventually turned back the demon horde. But it took a LOT of fighting ad we loved it.

Oh, then the Time Traveling Cops showed up and I was fined! lol

Contributor

One of the subtext's implied by the writeup for the Demiplane of Time was that time travel was incredibly different, and the methods known (and then incredibly rarely) strongly dissuaded attempts to alter the past. But it was an open question if someone had made those attempts before and then perhaps intended to spread their methods, or a version of those methods in order to help others, or to intentionally cripple anyone else who might follow in their footsteps.

The author of the 'Book of Serpents, Ash, and Acorns' in the DoT's writeup was intended to be an enigma in print. In my home game, I'd have that motivation as a settled issue and their identity explicitly defined.

That said, I've never used any of the Chronomancy book's stuff, but I have worked with time travel in past and current campaigns, but always as backplot or the actions of NPCs. The PCs usually deal with the fallout and paradoxes that might occur, but I've never had PCs actually go back in time.


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No way! I'd die first!


I never actually used any material from Chronomancer but I loved the book. I even took it to university, back in the day, as one of my very select group of favourite books.

Paizo Employee CEO

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Interestingly, Vic and I were slated to write Chronomancer for Mayfair Games, but Magic: The Gathering hit and WotC bought me out of my contract with Mayfair and somebody else ended up writing Chronomancer. Then, when TSR and Mayfair settled their lawsuit, TSR ended up with Chronomancer, which they then published. I still have all of my notes for Chronomancer and would LOVE to write a rulebook that outlines the ideas Vic and I had. I really think that we did a killer job of coming up with ideas about how time travel worked. Hmmm, perhaps I need to talk to Mr. Mona. :)

-Lisa


That someone else was Loren Coleman :) I'd love to have a Pathfinder book on chronomancy, provided that it was as detailed as Chronomancy itself :)


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Lisa Stevens wrote:

Interestingly, Vic and I were slated to write Chronomancer for Mayfair Games, but Magic: The Gathering hit and WotC bought me out of my contract with Mayfair and somebody else ended up writing Chronomancer. Then, when TSR and Mayfair settled their lawsuit, TSR ended up with Chronomancer, which they then published. I still have all of my notes for Chronomancer and would LOVE to write a rulebook that outlines the ideas Vic and I had. I really think that we did a killer job of coming up with ideas about how time travel worked. Hmmm, perhaps I need to talk to Mr. Mona. :)

-Lisa

So that's why you killed me!

You read what I said, went back in time, and killed me. Damn your filthy chronomancy!

And I'm not dead!


You may want to try out the 3.x supplement Temporality (which I see is generously on sale now for $3.95!).

[DISCLAIMER: I wrote it.]


Lisa Stevens wrote:

Interestingly, Vic and I were slated to write Chronomancer for Mayfair Games, but Magic: The Gathering hit and WotC bought me out of my contract with Mayfair and somebody else ended up writing Chronomancer. Then, when TSR and Mayfair settled their lawsuit, TSR ended up with Chronomancer, which they then published. I still have all of my notes for Chronomancer and would LOVE to write a rulebook that outlines the ideas Vic and I had. I really think that we did a killer job of coming up with ideas about how time travel worked. Hmmm, perhaps I need to talk to Mr. Mona. :)

-Lisa

Sounds really cool! Please do talk to Erik. I know time travel is a tricky subject, but I'd love to see it tackled intelligently.


I'd be interested in seeing that take on Chronomancy as well.

The Exchange

+1 yes please


TrickyOwlbear wrote:

You may want to try out the 3.x supplement Temporality (which I see is generously on sale now for $3.95!).

[DISCLAIMER: I wrote it.]

At just £2.50 for a well-reviewed book on one of my favourite subjects, you have a sale sir! :)


Arakhor wrote:
TrickyOwlbear wrote:

You may want to try out the 3.x supplement Temporality (which I see is generously on sale now for $3.95!).

[DISCLAIMER: I wrote it.]

At just £2.50 for a well-reviewed book on one of my favourite subjects, you have a sale sir! :)

Hope you enjoy it, Arakhor! I wasn't motivated by a potential sale (I was paid for that work long ago) but just thought the book might be relevant to the OP's plans.


So, you're Bret (with only one T)? I like it already :)

However, the Temporalist PrC requires the Quicken Action feat, which itself requires the Temporal Acuity feat, yet which feat does the PrC grant at 1st-level? Temporal Acuity :P


Lisa Stevens wrote:
I still have all of my notes for Chronomancer and would LOVE to write a rulebook that outlines the ideas Vic and I had. I really think that we did a killer job of coming up with ideas about how time travel worked. Hmmm, perhaps I need to talk to Mr. Mona.

<GLOMP>

Seriously, I love time travel and the 2E Chronomancer book was my favorite 2e supplement. If a Pathfinder chronomancer book was written I put aside a planned purchase to snap it up.


Lisa Stevens wrote:
I still have all of my notes for Chronomancer and would LOVE to write a rulebook that outlines the ideas Vic and I had.

That'd rock quite a bit!

I just recently snapped up a copy of Chronomancer to use as a reference, because there wasn't a load of great resources for the subject matter out there.


Arakhor wrote:

So, you're Bret (with only one T)? I like it already :)

However, the Temporalist PrC requires the Quicken Action feat, which itself requires the Temporal Acuity feat, yet which feat does the PrC grant at 1st-level? Temporal Acuity :P

Bret is me. :)

Oops on the feats! You're the first to have said anything. In hindsight, I suppose those should be reversed. Good catch there.

And on topic, I would happily shell out some bucks for a Paizo time travel supplement.


It's true what they say - send a geek to catch an error, especially one who works as a proofreader :) I'll promptly switch those feats around :)

Grand Lodge

TrickyOwlbear wrote:
Arakhor wrote:

So, you're Bret (with only one T)? I like it already :)

However, the Temporalist PrC requires the Quicken Action feat, which itself requires the Temporal Acuity feat, yet which feat does the PrC grant at 1st-level? Temporal Acuity :P

Bret is me. :)

Oops on the feats! You're the first to have said anything. In hindsight, I suppose those should be reversed. Good catch there.

And on topic, I would happily shell out some bucks for a Paizo time travel supplement.

I hate to admit it, but yeah, me too...

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is it actually worth saying I too would be really interested in seeing a Pathfinder chronomancy book, given that I already subscribe to just about everything with the Pathfinder name already on it?


I'm very fascinated with time travel. Count me in as an interested party to see Chronomancy get the Pathfinder treatment!

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Anybody remember Time Master from Pacesetter Games? Or Feng Shui the game of using time travel, kick-butt martial arts, and commando interior decorating to rewrite history to your advantage?

--+--

I once ran a Chronoporter in an AD&D 2nd Edition game, and I watched as her most innocuous power completely unravelled the campaign. ("Once again, I travel back in time to yesterday morning, to warn us about the traps on this level.") After that, I designed a time-traveling RuneQuest campaign, and wrote a well-received time-traveling AD&D convention adventure (which included Chronomancers, Chronoporters, priests of the God of Fate, and an intelligent crystal skull named Yorick).

In that experience, time travel works well, so long as it's the major theme of the campaign. You don't want to throw a little history-changing into an otherwise linearly-proceding adventure. But when the bad guys can move through time too, and history is just the canvas on which everyone tries to blot out or scrape away everyone else's paintings, then the campaign works much better.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

This is the movie Time Bandits all over again.


For what it's worth, I liked the Chronorebel psionic prestige class from Hyperconscious; it would probably be easy enough to convert it to a wizard prestige class.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
This is the movie Time Bandits all over again.

Or Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Or Van Damme's Timecop, etc.


Urizen wrote:
Scipion del Ferro wrote:
This is the movie Time Bandits all over again.
Or Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Or Van Damme's Timecop, etc.

Or Groundhog Day. Or that damn episode of Star Trek TNG where they kept playing poker over and over and over and over and ... and over again.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

I believe there is an episode of Xena, SG: 1, and Buffy that all do that same thing.

Paizo Employee Director of Narrative

...or Lost.
...or Donnie Darko.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
I believe there is an episode of Xena, SG: 1, and Buffy that all do that same thing.

Sounds like a cool episode. Do we get to see Buffy mud-wrestle Xena, or maybe Gabrielle?


... or the X-Files. Though this one had the great twist that Mulder wasn't the Groundhog Man in that episode, but merely a victim of the ever-repeating day.

And it was a really crappy day...


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

And SG1.

Time for a plug; BTRC has a game called TimeLords (nothing to do with doctor who) that they've rewritten to use their universal background, EABA. It's (alien) technology based time-travel, not magic. One of the limitations was that the device could not duplicate itself, so once you used it to visit a particular time/timeline pair, you couldn't go back there again with that device.

[disclaimer: I helped playtest the original]


The problem with time travel is that in a PC's hands it will almost utterly destroy your campaign if not fan correctly.


Uh, thanks for that.


Chronomancer was a great supplement. Encyclopedia Arcane: Chronomancy wasn't as good, I'm afraid.


It had some nice ideas, but shoddy proofreading and an Immortality feat that simply didn't exist. Fortunately, Paizo's Wizard-20 class feature can used in its place now.


According to Chronicle of the Righteous, Time Travel was banned by a Divine Council of Empyreal Lords from getting into mortal hands in Golarion, so i doubt it will ever become a thing... At lest in this setting.


TittoPaolo210 wrote:
According to Chronicle of the Righteous, Time Travel was banned by a Divine Council of Empyreal Lords from getting into mortal hands in Golarion, so i doubt it will ever become a thing... At lest in this setting.

Not technically true. Most Empyreal Lords believe it should not be wielded by mortals. Not all believe it should be barred from immortals.

So there seem to be three factions:

1) Time travel is prohibited outright.
2) Time travel is prohibited for mortals, but immortals are allowed.
3) Time travel is permissible.


Time travel is one of those things that might seem cool in an RPG, but is probably more of a headache than anything else once somebody goes past the surface of how it will effect the game.

Either it will ruin the entire setting or will have arbitrary and illogically unbreakable cosmic rules governing it that almost always mitigate the entire reason one would go on a time hopping adventure in the first place other than maybe somebody doing it for the fun of viewing the past.

It ends up much more work for the GM. There is probably a reason most setting just don't have it or don't allow it to do anything. There's probably a reason our own reality doesn't allow it.

Shadow Lodge

It's not d20, but there's a game called Continuum that's all about time traveling PC's. Might be worth looking into if you plan on doing a time travel game. It's very well thought out.


It really is way easier than everyone is making out to be. Three words puts this all back in the realm of plausibility for the GM: rare spell components. That's it! Do you wanna travel back to the stone age or into the techno heavy future? Fine gather up a Tarrasque eye & and a god's tear. Viola! Now for spells of a smaller scope make the reagents easier to get. It opens up a whole new realm of arcane magic. Can't deal with paradox effects? No problem time snaps back and the PC ends up transported to some Olympian styled extra-planar court.


Hah! An excellent thread to be subject to necromancy!

Personally, I want myself some Chronomancers!

And no one has brought up this yet!

(Also, I've totally run a few games with Time Travel, including a few back-and-forths and a few ways that the players actually have limited control of such events and effects... turned out... pretty awesome.)


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Can we be sure this is thread necromancy?
Did anyone see the body?

What if the thread traveled from 2010 to the present instead?


So, I'm going to suggest something. Why don't we build this character together?

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