Race Creation Galley


Homebrew and House Rules


I couldn't find one, so here's a workshop thread for anybody with requests for, write-ups of and commentary on new races. Hopefully, we'll be able to work up some final versions the cooks can post whicheverwhere, so avoid copyright material.

I'll be using LPJDesign's Race Creation Cookbook as the backbone of any crunch I may have to offer. Feel free, though, to use whichever roundabout number system or even that common sense thing I hear about to offer any stats of your own.

If you have a request for a race, give us a bit of detail of what you're looking for. Source material links are especially nice whether it's a link to some folklore, legend or myths or even just a picture you think looks really rad. Avoid that IP thing though, that's what gets everybody's tails tied up in knots and pretty soon you have a big ball of a rat king rolling, gnashing and squealing all over the kitchen floor.

If you have comments on a race write-up, try to be objective about it and offer constructive criticism.

With all that said, I've got the grill heated up, let's get cooking!


All right, give this a shot. First up is my race of cats that can walk on their hind legs:

Neko: (they're based on an animé movie I once saw, so I might as well have some acknowledgement of their Japanese influence)

+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -4 Strength: Neko are graceful and aware, but small and weak.

Tiny: Neko are Tiny creatures and gain a +2 size bonus to their AC, a +2 size bonus on attack rolls, a –2 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +8 size bonus on Stealth checks.

Quick: Neko have a base speed of 30 ft. However so long as they are not carrying anything in their paw-hands they may drop to all fours to move at a base speed of 40 ft.

Low-Light Vision: Neko can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.

Keen Senses: Neko receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.

Sure-Footed: Neko receive a +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics and Climb skill checks.

Natural Weapons (I really don't know how these sort of entries are supposed to be worded): Neko have a bite attack that they may use as a primary weapon for 1d3+Str mod damage. They also have two claws that they may use for 1d2+Str mod damage, but these are treated as secondary weapons and thus take a -5 penalty.

Languages: Neko begin play speaking Common. Neko with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).

(I would like to give them Scent, but I don't know how powerful it is.)


The neko are hard to judge the power level of. The -4 str is harsh but tiny size is amazing. And Scent would make them WAY to good. They would become the best rangers ever. I really like the idea but how about we simplifiy them to this:

Neko:

+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Strength: Neko are graceful and aware, but small and weak.

Tiny: Neko are small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense.

Quick: Neko have a base speed of 30 ft. However so long as they are not carrying anything in their paw-hands they may drop to all fours to move at a base speed of 40 ft.

Low-Light Vision: Neko can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.

Keen Senses: Neko receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.

Sure-Footed: Neko receive a +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics and Climb skill checks.

Natural Weapons: Neko gain to claw atacks at 1d4+str

Languages: Neko begin play speaking Common. Neko with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).


Alex B. wrote:
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Strength: Neko are graceful and aware, but small and weak.

Well I mainly added -4 Str because I wasn't sure if there was some sort of rule that said Small and smaller creatures had to be really weak.

Alex B. wrote:
Tiny: Neko are small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense.

So we're altering the way size works in this case.

Alex B. wrote:
Natural Weapons: Neko gain to claw atacks at 1d4+str

Isn't a cat's bite (I mean a real cat, not what's presented in the bestiary) worse than it's claws?


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:

All right, give this a shot. First up is my race of cats that can walk on their hind legs:

Neko: (they're based on an animé movie I once saw, so I might as well have some acknowledgement of their Japanese influence)

+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -4 Strength: Neko are graceful and aware, but small and weak.

-4 Strength seems a little harsh for general use to me too, but I remember a rule about that and tiny creatures somewhere too; can't track it down anywhere though. I'm vaguely recall the same rule also adding Dex...Also, animals as monsters tend to be given a higher wisdom just to give survival and perception skills a boost appropriate to their environments. Classically, cats are finicky and impulsive, but intelligent though, so an Int bonus may be more appropriate than a Wis bonus. 'Curiosity killed the cat,' is one of those classic intelligence over wisdom lines.

All-in-all, someone attracted to this race would prolly want more a realistic depiction of a cat person rather than hawt catgirl babe or superbuff lightening tigerman, so don't worry about the strength and decide for yourself whether or not my Wis/Int interpretation is more realistic or animistic.

SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:

Tiny: Neko are Tiny creatures and gain a +2 size bonus to their AC, a +2 size bonus on attack rolls, a –2 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +8 size bonus on Stealth checks.

Quick: Neko have a base speed of 30 ft. However so long as they are not carrying anything in their paw-hands they may drop to all fours to move at a base speed of 40 ft.

Low-Light Vision: Neko can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.

Keen Senses: Neko receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.

Sure-Footed: Neko receive a +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics and Climb skill checks.

Natural Weapons (I really don't know how these sort of entries are supposed to be worded): Neko have a bite attack that they may use as a primary weapon for 1d3+Str mod damage. They also have two claws that they may use for 1d2+Str mod damage, but these are treated as secondary weapons and thus take a -5 penalty.

Languages: Neko begin play speaking Common. Neko with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).

(I would like to give them Scent, but I don't know how powerful it is.)

None of this other stuff is too huge and you have some wiggle room with the negative stat balance, so you can afford to give them scent, I think. If they were bigger, those natural weapons would count for a lot more, but tiny, I think it works decent. Only thing is they use their claws as primary weapons and only use their bite when they have a creature grappled. Compare the way large or small cats attack to the way dogs attack for a good example of that. Other than what you've got here, cats have really complex linguistic abilities, so you could prolly give them social skill boosts...+2 to one skill should be fine, but more than one and you might want to think about toning something else down.

I think Alex was trying to suggest upgrading them to small size instead of tiny, but in that case, adding scent might be a bit too pricey.


Laddie wrote:
...someone attracted to this race would prolly want more a realistic depiction of a cat person rather than hawt catgirl babe or superbuff lightening tigerman...

Definitely a full feline: if I wanted to do an anthropomorph I'd......well actually I'd just use a human, most of the time I don't really care about any mechanical differences.

As for stats I'm not actually fond of mental ones, if I could I would use the old method and do +Dex -Str.

Laddie wrote:
Only thing is they use their claws as primary weapons and only use their bite when they have a creature grappled. Compare the way large or small cats attack to the way dogs attack for a good example of that.

Thing is I don't know how bad it is to be really scratched by a cat, I've only ever gotten small knicks. I do know what it's like to be bitten by one, so I was thinking cat claws (on the small ones, anyway) had been overestimated.


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Definitely a full feline: if I wanted to do an anthropomorph I'd......well actually I'd just use a human, most of the time I don't really care about any mechanical differences...

I might pick that one up and do more with cultural traits than stat adjustments. I think it's a good idea to work up a base anthro creature that could have different animal templates tacked onto it though, along the lines of your using human.

SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Thing is I don't know how bad it is to be really scratched by a cat, I've only ever gotten small knicks. I do know what it's like to be bitten by one, so I was thinking cat claws (on the small ones, anyway) had been overestimated.

The bite is definitely more powerful, but they still use their claws as their primary attack method. They grab or slash with the claws and then, once the can pin their prey, they bite for a finishing blow. Basically, they don't tend to bite something unless they have a good hold of it in their paws first unlike a dog, which will use hit and run bite tactics until it can lock in a choke grip. If you wanted to add social skill bonuses like I mentioned or just tone the race down to err on the side of caution, I think it'd be fair to say the bite can only be used in a grapple or only if both claws hit, but that could get a little out of control with a monk cat...which sounds a little...haha.


Laddie wrote:
I think it's a good idea to work up a base anthro creature that could have different animal templates tacked onto it though, along the lines of your using human.

The sorry thing is there was a product that did that: Freeform Anthropomorphica. But apparently the people making it used some art they thought was free but turned out it wasn't. They pulled the product and were supposed to be working on getting it legal.............but nothing happened.

As for the whole issue of natural weapons the thing is I actually don't care, I was just trying to get the race as close to what I knew about cats as possible.

UPDATE: By the way, I thought I might put in a list of races I'd like to give a try on, just in case anyone else wants to have a go while I'm working:
*Demi-Genie
*Sphinx-based
*Unicorn-based
*Bird-winged human
*Eel-mermaid


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:

The sorry thing is there was a product that did that: Freeform Anthropomorphica. But apparently the people making it used some art they thought was free but turned out it wasn't. They pulled the product and were supposed to be working on getting it legal.............but nothing happened.

As for the whole issue of natural weapons the thing is I actually don't care, I was just trying to get the race as close to what I knew about cats as possible.

UPDATE: By the way, I thought I might put in a list of races I'd like to give a try on, just in case anyone else wants to have a go while I'm working:
*Demi-Genie
*Sphinx-based
*Unicorn-based
*Bird-winged human
*Eel-mermaid

If art was the only issue, I wouldn't think finding replacements would be too tough. EDIT: If I were to venture a vague guess, they may have confused Berne Convention licenses with creative commons for some artists. I'm sure at least half the people interested in a book like this would be willing to donate their own art for it though in a drive to get it back up.

Natural weapons are kinda goofy. It's one of those things that seems like it'd be a huge advantage, like monk attacks, but in the context of most ogl/whatever games, they get marginalized pretty quickly.

I like the idea of demi-genies. If you tone down the special abilities and strip out the HD levels you should be able to work up a version for each of the genie types fairly easily.

Eel-mermaid sounds really strange at first, but I saw an octopus-mermaid in Fell Beasts 2 with character stats and it turned out pretty neat. The more I think about it, eel mermaid could be cool too.

Liberty's Edge

I'll go ahead and post this here. Shay are basically our night fey in my campaign.

Shay Racial Traits

+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution: Shay are graceful and beautiful people who have an aura about them that makes them pleasing to others though their bodies are usually more frail than that of a human.

Medium: Shay are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Normal Speed: Shay have a base speed of 30 feet.

Darkvision: Shay can see in the dark up to 60 feet.

Mental Lock: Shay are immune to all mind-affecting spells and effect; both beneficial as well as harmful. If a shay ever reveals a secret they swore to keep, this ability is surpressed for a week.

Fey Blood: Shay count as fey for any effect related to race.

Keen Senses: Shay receive a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy skill checks. A shay's natural aura tend to make others like them more and also makes it easier for a shay to uncover secrets (Gathering Information).

Languages: Shay begin play speaking Common and Sylvan. Shay with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Aquan, Auran, Elven, Gnome, Ignan, and Terran.


Misery wrote:
I'll go ahead and post this here. Shay are basically our night fey in my campaign.

Ah, they look pretty good to me and you probably have some room to add an minor ability or two. I like the bits about secrets a lot.

This is all just flavour suggestion, but assuming that the keen senses aura is magical in nature, you may want to add in something about that or else drop the aura part and explain it more as say a changing of the voice or mannerisms to reflect the person they're speaking with or some other natural effect like that. That could also justify a little better the bonus applying to whichever random sentients they might engage. Not really a necessary thing at all though.


Laddie wrote:
I like the idea of demi-genies. If you tone down the special abilities and strip out the HD levels you should be able to work up a version for each of the genie types fairly easily.

Actually I was going to do a demi-genie based off the original djinn myths rather than the elemental outsiders of Pathfinder.

Laddie wrote:
Eel-mermaid sounds really strange at first, but I saw an octopus-mermaid in Fell Beasts 2 with character stats and it turned out pretty neat. The more I think about it, eel mermaid could be cool too.

Eel Mermaid

My thinking is that you could have a mermaid-type race that would move at a reasonable speed on land due to its snake-like body.


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
My thinking is that you could have a mermaid-type race that would move at a reasonable speed on land due to its snake-like body.

Was this what you were linking to? http://www.elfwood.com/~andreak/Eel_Mermaid.2524753.html

I like that though. The octomaid I mentioned could move on land too, but had a lower speed...20. Main thing she had to worry about was keeping her skin damp.


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Laddie wrote:
Main thing she had to worry about was keeping her skin damp.

I'm probably not going to do that: I don't really like obligate drawbacks.

Now for some new race write-up. First a cleaned-up Neko:

Neko:
—+2 Dexterity +2 Wisdom, -2 Strength. Neko are graceful and aware, but small and weak.
—Humanoid (neko).
—Tiny: Neko are Tiny creatures and gain a +2 size bonus to their AC, a +2 size bonus on attack rolls, a –2 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +8 size bonus on Stealth checks.
—Quick: A neko has a base speed of 30 ft. However if not carrying anything in their paw-hands they may drops to all fours to increase their base speed to 40 ft.
—Low-Light Vision: Neko can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
—Keen Senses: Neko receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
—Sure-Footed: Neko receive a +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics and Climb skill checks.
—Retractable Claws (Ex): Neko may treat their Unarmed hand and foot strikes as slashing damage rather than bludgeoning damage.
—Languages: Neko begin play speaking Common. Neko with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).

For the second the race (even the name) is still on the drawing board:
Sa-eff:
—+2 to One Ability score except Constitution. Sa-eff, as humans, are varied, but by necessity their bodies are lightly built and as a consequence not as durable.
—Humanoid (sa-eff).
—Medium.
—Base Speed 30 ft.
—Wings (Ex):
*At 1st level a sa-eff may glide forward 20 ft for each 5 ft he/she descends. Effective “flying” speed is 40 ft with Average maneuverability. May not be carrying more than a Light load.
*At 5th level a sa-eff can Fly 40 ft (average maneuverability) for Con modifier consecutive rounds without becoming Fatigued. Can combine flying and gliding to stay airborne without becoming Fatigued (though this still occurs after 10 total minutes of Flight per day).
*At 10th level a sa-eff does not become Fatigued and is not limited in the amount of time he/she may spend airborne.
*May make a Dive attack and “run” while flying.
—Wing-Aided Movement: When sa-eff can use their wings to coordinate themselves they gain a +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks. As their wings are those of sea birds this also grants them a +2 racial bonus on Swim checks.
—Languages: Sa-eff begin play speaking Common. Sa-eff with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).

For the Sa-eff I ran out of ideas after "human with wings...make them sea bird wings for the hell of it".


Ah, I like what you did with the neko. The retractable claws is a nice twist like the running on all fours speed. There's too many races that just pick features out of the other base classes...er, races.

I like the wingish people too.

Players may not be thrilled with not being able to place the ability bonus into Con though. You could give them a -2 to Constitution and a +2 to someone else specific and then they could have full choice on what they can put the bonus on with everything still balancing out.

Sorry I haven't posted anything of my own, I'll see if I can work something up soon.


Here is one that I made

The TORTLE == Humanoid Turtle.. -- Ninja Turtle! (Though I'm thinking maybe they weight lots, lol)

Tortle Racial Traits

Quote:

Tortle (turtle-like humanoids)

+2 Con, +2 Wis, –2 Dex
Medium Size
Slow Pace: Tortles have a base movement speed of 20 ft.
Natural Swimmer: Swim is always an in class skill for Tortles and they have a base swim speed of 10 ft. They also receive a +6 Racial bonus on Swim checks
Tortles can hold their breath underwaterfor (6 multiplied by their constitution score) rounds, before having to make standard checks for drowning.
Lowlight Adapation: Tortles have Low-Light Vision
Shell: Tortles have a +3 Natural Armor bonus, and the ability with withdraw into their shell. This doubles their Natural Armor Class but they are unable to attack, move, and cast spells with somatic components when withdrawn.
Clawed Evolution: A Tortle's unarmed attacks can deal slashing damage instead of just bludgeoning.

Automatic Languages: Common and Tortle. Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Goblin, Draconic, and Orc.

Age
Adult 20, Middle Age 125, Old 187, Venerable 250, Maximum 250 +1d%

Race Lizardfolk
Adult 16, Middle 40, Old 80, Venerable 150, Oldest Recorded 312


Laddie wrote:
There's too many races that just pick features out of the other base classes...er, races.

Well that depends on how complicated a concept becomes. If I had just made another humanoid I probably wouldn't have had any unique features. That's one of the downsides to a system that hasn't been set up to play non-humanoid types. (As it is the Neko probably should be something like Magical Beasts, maybe, but that may be just a bit more power than I can give them.)

Laddie wrote:
Players may not be thrilled with not being able to place the ability bonus into Con though. You could give them a -2 to Constitution and a +2 to someone else specific and then they could have full choice on what they can put the bonus on with everything still balancing out.

I thought the point of all ability score adjustments was to come out to +2. I get what you're saying: give them an option rather than a penalty. But wouldn't that make them weaker than other races?


For something to develop some original race mechanics I just got inspired: the Bestiary has a phase spider with a humanoid face. Well if you gave that picture's front legs some clawed hands you have the beginnings of a PC race. It wouldn't be a PC Etherial Spider (too powerful), but a semi-spider PC race would be really cool and different.


Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:

Here is one that I made

The TORTLE == Humanoid Turtle.. -- Ninja Turtle! (Though I'm thinking maybe they weight lots, lol)

I've been looking for one of these. Thanks. :D


Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:
The TORTLE == Humanoid Turtle.. -- Ninja Turtle! (Though I'm thinking maybe they weight lots, lol)

Now to stat up a Teenage Ninja Tortle!


Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:

Here is one that I made

The TORTLE == Humanoid Turtle.. -- Ninja Turtle! (Though I'm thinking maybe they weight lots, lol)

I dig them.

One thing to keep in mind about them pulling into their shell though is that they'd lose any dex or dodge bonus to AC, which they aren't really keyed toward in the first place, but it could dampen the advantage of doubling the armour bonus slightly. It also puts them at risk for any sneak attack effects. The total defense standard action also gives any character a +4 dodge bonus to AC, which this replaces and puts other restrictions on. With those disadvantages in mind, I think it'd be fair to bump the base AC bonus up to +4 and bump the bonus up an additional +6 on a withdraw. I really like the ability, but it's pretty hard to implement it fairly within the system.

SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
I thought the point of all ability score adjustments was to come out to +2. I get what you're saying: give them an option rather than a penalty. But wouldn't that make them weaker than other races?

Right. Let's say they get +2 Int, -2 Con, +2 Whatever. If they spend that whatever point on Cha, then it balances out to a +2. If they choose to 'buy out' that Con negative with the whatever bonus, then it works out just like your original stats and it's still a +2 balance.


Alright, good news, I've been working on my tortles. Now then, you can envision a ninja turtle, but if you do so you'll be wrong. Let me explain it this way, go google tortle and you should find a reference pic or two. This idea has been done before, therefore, I'm even thinking of changing the name of the race possibly. Aside from that-----

Here is what we have thus far, some improvements, and a set back which I'd like help in clearing up. As my current logic dictates, I'm aiming towards the multiple armor conditional system. Which shall be briefly explained below.

Quote:

The Wild Commoner says (1:31 AM):

*I have a problem with the armors
*><
*If they are wearing metal armor
*specifically lets take full plate into account
*then one would assume it's on their arms and legs
*this could however restrict them from withdrawing
*aside from that
The Wild Commoner says (1:32 AM):
*if any armor is covering their shell
*it would enhance their armor while withdraw from the shell
*Where as say leather
*would not
*if only
*worn on the arms,legs
*To this factor
*I'd have to either include rules were they could encase their shells in metal armor
The Wild Commoner says (1:33 AM):
*And wear leathers or light metals on their limbs
*giving them a portion of the metal armors AC
*with the leathers ac added
*then minus the leathers while withdraw
*OR
*I could restrict them from wearing heavy armors
*or even metal in general
*><
*Unsure of what to do

The Tortle (Name may change)

Quote:

Tortle (turtle-like humanoids)

+2 Con, +2 Wis, –2 Dex
Medium Size
Slow Pace: Tortles have a base movement speed of 20 ft.
Natural Swimmer: Swim is always an in class skill for Tortles and they have a base swim speed of 10 ft. They also receive a +6 Racial bonus on Swim checks
Tortles can hold their breath underwaterfor (6 multiplied by their constitution score) rounds, before having to make standard checks for drowning.
Lowlight Adapation: Tortles have Low-Light Vision
Shell: Tortles have a +4 Natural Armor bonus, and the ability to withdraw into their shell. This doubles their Natural Armor Bonus, and grants them a Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning; but they are unable to attack, move, and cast spells with somatic components, and do not gain a dodge or dexterity bonus while withdrawn. In addition a Tortle also gains Resistance 5 Fire against outside sorces. This does not protect them from general increases in heat or anything that bypasses their shell.
Unique Structure: Due to their shells Tortles are incapable of wearing regular humanoid armor aside from Padded, Leather, and Hide. These such armors are worn on their legs, arms, and neck/head. This means that they cannot wear any metal armor unless it is specifically constructed for them. Any armor specifically constructed for a Tortle has its cost multiplied by 2.

Thinking of removing this - Clawed Evolution: A Tortle's unarmed attacks can deal slashing damage instead of just bludgeoning.


Laddie wrote:
Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:

Here is one that I made

The TORTLE == Humanoid Turtle.. -- Ninja Turtle! (Though I'm thinking maybe they weight lots, lol)

I dig them.

One thing to keep in mind about them pulling into their shell though is that they'd lose any dex or dodge bonus to AC, which they aren't really keyed toward in the first place, but it could dampen the advantage of doubling the armour bonus slightly. It also puts them at risk for any sneak attack effects. The total defense standard action also gives any character a +4 dodge bonus to AC, which this replaces and puts other restrictions on. With those disadvantages in mind, I think it'd be fair to bump the base AC bonus up to +4 and bump the bonus up an additional +6 on a withdraw. I really like the ability, but it's pretty hard to implement it fairly within the system.

SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
I thought the point of all ability score adjustments was to come out to +2. I get what you're saying: give them an option rather than a penalty. But wouldn't that make them weaker than other races?
Right. Let's say they get +2 Int, -2 Con, +2 Whatever. If they spend that whatever point on Cha, then it balances out to a +2. If they choose to 'buy out' that Con negative with the whatever bonus, then it works out just like your original stats and it's still a +2 balance.

Personally, I always use the following system for my stats.

Physical Ability Score Modifiers grant 1 point
Mental Ability Score Modifiers grant 0.5 point
Keep Class at 0.5 1.5 for balanced ability mods. (I.E. Within the no LA rules)

Meaning that a +2 Int = 0.5, a -2 Con = 1, and a +2 ? = 0.5, or 1.

This would mean that the total point end cost would be a 0, or a 0.5

I dunno, just thought I'd throw my thoughts in there.


Laddie wrote:
Let's say they get +2 Int, -2 Con, +2 Whatever. If they spend that whatever point on Cha, then it balances out to a +2. If they choose to 'buy out' that Con negative with the whatever bonus, then it works out just like your original stats and it's still a +2 balance.

Except then they can add that extra +2 into Int giving them +4 Int and making them an obvious choice for Wizard. And if you tell them they can't add the extra into Int then you're right back where I was with telling them they can't add it to Con.


Alrighty, I need help with the shells and armor.
>< Should the shell and armor interaction go as --- (Pick one of the options)

Quote:

Option 1

Tortles cannot wear any metal armors.

Option 2
A Tortle wearing medium or heavy armor that encompasses his shell cannot withdraw.

Option 3
A Tortle that wears any armor over his shell, does now wear it over his arms and legs. This gives a -4 to the AC of any armor worn over the shell. A Tortle can negate this penalty by covering his arms and legs in the armor, but is unable to withdraw. This means that a Tortle wearing full plate armor instead only gains +5 AC from the armor. However, when withdrawn he would keep his armor bonus to AC. In addition a Tortle could wear customized full plate armor on his shell for a +5 AC, and Hide armor on the limbs for a +4 AC. These bonuses would stack to grant a +9 bonus. However, when withdraw the Tortle would lose his Hide armors bonus due to his limbs being withdrawn

Quote:

Tortles are not very well known if at all in foreign lands, this is due to their tendencies for home life. Those that have heard of them, know that the stories tell of a kind, peaceful people whom are fair in all aspects. They hold family as the most precious jewel in life, and enjoy law, knowledge, and philosophy.

Personality: Tortles tend to be a peaceful, sharing, happy people that enjoy leading simple lives. They enjoy learning new things, but above all hold family as the most important aspect of life. Although being a peaceful people, they are quick to retaliate if attacked. This is of course only if more diplomatic options fail.

Physical Description: Tortles regardless of gender tend to have a height of 4'8" up to 6'0" feet in height. The bulk of their weight is from their shell, and this ends up giving them a total weight varying from 300-800 lbs. They are like any other humanoid creature, bipeds, and they have no hair on their turtle like bodies. Their skin is scaley, but some how suprisingly smooth and tends towards dull shades of green. It is possible for it to be lighter, more attractive shades of green and such individuals are thought of as the most beautiful of the Tortle peoples. The shell that all Tortles have is very durable and helps to protect them, with some effort they are capable of withdrawing into their shells. It is unusual for Tortles to wear clothing but some do have; gloves, belts, shoes, and bands for the head, arm, wrist or leg.

Relations: Tortles are a peaceful race that usually stay within the boundries of their village. They greet friendly vistors with hospitality and will often give aid to those who ask of it. Tortles tend to have close relationships with Lizardfolk, but also have close ties with other species such as; Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Halflings, and Humans. There is a general distrust, and dislike for half-orcs due to their kin having a history of raids on Tortle villages.

Alignment: Tortles are creatures of order and neutrality, this leads them to be Lawful Neutral. However, the Tortles that take upon themselves the task of adventuring tend to not fit the mold. They after all have some reason to leave their homes, and families, and explore the world. Be it a quest for knowledge, excitement, justice or revenge.

Tortle Lands: Tortles do not belong to any nation of their own and tend towards small villages on the boarders of other nations. Autonomy is one such trait that is common among the Tortle peoples. Their homes tend to be built near sources of water, lakes, rivers, and oceans. Locations that crops can be grown in abundance. Tortle villages consist of extended family units that span generations, and it is often possible for an entire village to exist solely of a single family unit.

Religion: Tortles tend to respect and follow a more spiritual path than they do actual religion. They are more inclined to worship the forces that drive the waters, the earth, and the forests than they are any other. Though very seldom, some Tortles turn away from the natural ways to worship the gods of other species.

Language: Tortles speak their own slow paced language called Tortle. For any non-Tortle listener it can require great patience to hold a conversation.

Names: Most Tortles only have a single name that they are given at birth, family names are foreign to them, as they are rather closely tied to their families as their villages. That there is no need, everyone is family within their village. An example would be the Tortles name followed by the name of their village.

Adventurers: Tortles take up the tedious task of adventuring usually for the purpose of educating themselves with the wonders of the world, or a deeper understanding of life and more spiritual natures. They may even take up this duty to right wrongs that have been done upon themselves or their families. Tortles tend to find that life among other races is far too fast paced for them. This is greatly known to other races who have met Tortles and experienced their tendency towards lifestyles that allow them to take a slow pace. Tortles love knowledge, and some even love debates of difficult issues, no matter the species they are dealing with.

Tortle Racial Traits
Tortle (turtle-like humanoids)
+2 Con, +2 Wis, –2 Dex
Medium Size
Slow Pace: Tortles have a base movement speed of 20 ft.
Natural Swimmer: Swim is always an in class skill for Tortles and they have a base swim speed of 20 ft. They also receive a +6 Racial bonus on Swim checks. In addition Tortles can hold their breath underwater for a number of rounds equal to (6 multiplied by their constitution score), before having to make standard checks for drowning.
Lowlight Adapation: Tortles have Low-Light Vision
Shell: Tortles have a +4 Natural Armor bonus, and the ability to withdraw into their shell. This doubles their Natural Armor Bonus, and grants them a Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning. However, they are unable to attack, move, cast spells with somatic components, and lose their armor, dodge, and dexterity bonus while withdrawn. In addition a Tortle also gains Resistance 5 Fire against outside sorces. This does not protect them from general temperature increases in heat or anything that bypasses their shell. This means a Tortle could still be "cooked" while protecting himself from fire.
Unique Structure: Due to their shells Tortles are incapable of wearing regular humanoid armor aside from Padded, Leather, and Hide. These such armors are worn on their legs, arms, and neck/head. This means that they cannot wear any metal armor unless it is specifically constructed for them. Any armor specifically constructed for a Tortle has its cost multiplied by 2.

Automatic Languages: Tortle. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc

Age: Adult 20, Middle Age 80, Old 140, Venerable 200, Maximum 200 +1d%

Combat Facing Rules
If you are using the combat facing variant, any attack from behind a Tortle that would hit their shell is instead made against their withdrawn natural armor bonus. This is twice their natural armor bonus minus their dodge and dexterity bonuses.


SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Laddie wrote:
Let's say they get +2 Int, -2 Con, +2 Whatever. If they spend that whatever point on Cha, then it balances out to a +2. If they choose to 'buy out' that Con negative with the whatever bonus, then it works out just like your original stats and it's still a +2 balance.
Except then they can add that extra +2 into Int giving them +4 Int and making them an obvious choice for Wizard. And if you tell them they can't add the extra into Int then you're right back where I was with telling them they can't add it to Con.

True, that's a little ridiculous of a bonus. I suppose you could also just list the stats that they -can- put the bonus into instead of saying they can't put it into Con, but that's getting a little ridiculous too. I was mainly just wondering if there was a different way it could be done more than an actual comment on the way you'd done it.


Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:

Option 2

A Tortle wearing medium or heavy armor that encompasses his shell cannot withdraw.

Honestly, option 2 is the only option I would actually use in a game, though 3 seems well-implemented. 3 is just too complicated too keep track of though. Definitely keep the unusual structure and forego any exceptions for light armour. A +4 armour bonus is great until around the levels that a player can afford to pay higher for customised armour. I suggest dropping the piece-mail rules since it's another bit that complicates things when players and GMs can find similar rules elsewhere if they have their hearts set on it.

Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:
Shell: Tortles have a +4 Natural Armor bonus, and the ability to withdraw into their shell. This doubles their Natural Armor Bonus, and grants them a Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning. However, they are unable to attack, move, cast spells with somatic components, and lose their armor, dodge, and dexterity bonus while withdrawn. In addition a Tortle also gains Resistance 5 Fire against outside sorces. This does not protect them from general temperature increases in heat or anything that bypasses their shell. This means a Tortle could still be "cooked" while protecting himself from fire.

I don't think they ought to lose their armour bonus to AC, but the dodge and dex bits cover what should be lost. I like the addition of the fire resistance while withdrawn, but the last two sentences add some confusion and potential for exploits. The 'against outside sources' covers all of that pretty well enough you could ditch the other two sentences.

I like the fluff you added too. It's some nice description work without laying down too many superfluous details that would encroach on how someone might choose to RP the character or how a GM might want to use them in their campaign.


Piece Mail rules??

The reason for the loss of armor would be the wearing of light armors on the limbs.

Though I guess you understand that, hence your desire for the exception of cost to include upon light armors.

Which does make me think.

Very well, I think that although you like my idea = you said it was well thought out.

That your simplified form is much better, due to the ease of access.

Therefore === I agree with you.

I shall make the changes, and post the final option. Looks like I'm getting lots of my homebrew done, now I just need people to comment on my Mundane Masterwork Enhancements and I can get to work on my feat point system.


Quote:

Shell: Tortles have a +4 Natural Armor bonus, and the ability to withdraw into their shell. This doubles their Natural Armor Bonus, and grants them a Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning. However, they are unable to attack, move, cast spells with somatic components, and lose their armor, dodge, and dexterity bonus while withdrawn. In addition a Tortle also gains Resistance 5 Fire against sources outside their shell.

Unique Structure: Due to their shells Tortles are incapable of wearing regular humanoid armor. This means that all armors must be specially constructed to fit a Tortle. Any armor specifically constructed for a Tortle has its cost multiplied by 2. In addition, if a Tortle is wearing Heavy armor it is incapable of withdrawing into its shell.

Fixed and good to go, now I just need a new name!


FINAL PRODUCT, ENGAGE!

The Chelonei, Chelon, Chelonein, Chelonian, Cheloneian. Whatever you want to give their plural to, I shall call them. Chelonei.

Chelonei

Quote:

Chelonei are not very well known if at all in foreign lands, this is due to their tendencies for home life. Those that have heard of them, know that the stories tell of a kind, peaceful people whom are fair in all aspects. They hold family as the most precious jewel in life, and enjoy law, knowledge, and philosophy.

Personality: Chelonei tend to be a peaceful, sharing, happy people that enjoy leading simple lives. They enjoy learning new things, but above all hold family as the most important aspect of life. Although being a peaceful people, they are quick to retaliate if attacked. This is of course only if more diplomatic options fail.

Physical Description: Chelonei regardless of gender tend to have a height of 4'8" up to 6'0" feet in height. The bulk of their weight is from their shell, and this ends up giving them a total weight varying from 300-800 lbs. They are like any other humanoid creature, bipeds, and they have no hair on their turtle like bodies. Their skin is scaly, but some how surprisingly smooth and tends towards dull shades of green, brown, or yellow. It is possible for it to be lighter, more attractive shades, and even speckled. The most beautiful of the Chelonei people are the ones who have more bright, and colourful skin. The shell that all Chelonei have is very durable and helps to protect them, with some effort they are capable of withdrawing into their shells. It is unusual for Chelonei to wear clothing but some do have; gloves, belts, shoes, and bands for the head, arm, wrist or leg.

Relations: Chelonei are a peaceful race that usually stay within the boundaries of their village. They greet friendly visitors with hospitality and will often give aid to those who ask of it. Chelonei tend to have friendly relationships with Lizardfolk, but also have close ties with other species such as; Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Halflings, and Humans. There is a general distrust, and dislike for half-orcs due to their kin having a history of raids on Chelonei villages.

Alignment: Chelonei are creatures of order and neutrality, this leads them to be Lawful Neutral. However, the Chelonei that take upon themselves the task of adventuring tend to not fit the mold. They after all have some reason to leave their homes, and families, and explore the world. Be it a quest for knowledge, excitement, justice or revenge.

Chelonei Lands: Chelonei do not belong to any nation of their own and tend towards small villages on the boarders of other nations. Autonomy is one such trait that is common among the Chelonei peoples. Their homes tend to be built near sources of water, lakes, rivers, and oceans. Locations that crops can be grown in abundance. Chelonei villages consist of extended family units that span generations, and it is often possible for an entire village to exist solely of a single family unit.

Religion: Chelonei tend to respect and follow a more spiritual path than they do actual religion. They are more inclined to worship the forces that drive the waters, the earth, and the forests than they are any other. Though very seldom, some Chelonei turn away from the natural ways to worship the gods of other species.

Languages: Chelonei speak their own slow paced language called Chelonei. For any non-Chelonei listener it can require great patience to hold a conversation.

Names: Most Chelonei only have a single name that they are given at birth, family names are foreign to them, as they are rather closely tied to their families as their villages. That there is no need, everyone is family within their village. An example would be the Chelonei name followed by the name of their village.

Adventurers: Chelonei take up the tedious task of adventuring usually for the purpose of educating themselves with the wonders of the world, or a deeper understanding of life and more spiritual natures. They may even take up this duty to right wrongs that have been done upon themselves or their families. Chelonei tend to find that life among other races is far too fast paced for them. This is greatly known to other races who have met Chelonei and experienced their tendency towards lifestyles that allow them to take a slow pace. Chelonei love knowledge, and some even love debates of difficult issues, no matter the species they are dealing with.

Chelonei Racial Traits
Chelonei (Humanoid Turtle Species)
Ability Scores: +2 Con, +2 Wis, –2 Dex
Size: Medium
Slow Pace: Chelonei have a base movement speed of 20 ft.
Natural Swimmer: Swim is always an in class skill for Chelonei and they have a base swim speed of 20 ft. They also receive a +6 Racial bonus on Swim checks. In addition Chelonei can hold their breath underwater for a number of rounds equal to (6 multiplied by their constitution score), before having to make standard checks for drowning.
Low-light Adaption: Chelonei have Low-Light Vision
Shell: Chelonei have a +4 Natural Armor bonus, and the ability to withdraw into their shell. This doubles their Natural Armor Bonus, and grants them a Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning. However, they are unable to attack, move, cast spells with somatic components, and lose their armor, dodge, and dexterity bonus while withdrawn. In addition a Chelonei also gains Resistance 5 Fire against sources outside their shell.
Unique Structure: Due to their shells Chelonei are incapable of wearing regular humanoid armor. This means that all armors must be specially constructed to fit a Chelonei. Any armor specifically constructed for a Chelonei has its cost multiplied by 2. In addition, if a Chelonei is wearing Heavy armor it is incapable of withdrawing into its shell.

Automatic Languages: Chelonei. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Common, Draconian, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc

Age: Adult 20, Middle Age 80, Old 140, Venerable 200, Maximum 200 +1d%

Combat Facing Rules
If you are using the combat facing variant, any attack from behind a Chelonei that would hit their shell is instead made against their withdrawn natural armor bonus. This is twice their natural armor bonus minus their dodge and dexterity bonuses.


Eyolf The Wild Commoner wrote:
In addition, if a Chelonei is wearing Heavy armor it is incapable of withdrawing into its shell.

Well, I can see why one would try and limit a race, but I don't think this is necessary, or a logical restriction ether.

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