[prestige] Gunmarshall


Homebrew and House Rules

Scarab Sages

So here's my first draft.

Tear it apart, please. Seriously. Pretend you just bought a $30 book sight-unseen specifically for this class, and this is what you got. What's your reaction, what would you use/leave, what would you change, what questions do you have?

For the fluff oriented: Gunmarshalls are the peacekeepers of the Mana Wastes. When this class is finally done there'll be some stuff about how they're hard but fair, emphasis on hard when it comes to outsiders (as in, not from Alkenstar). Think Seth Bullock meets Dirty Harry.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

It's entirely useless to me, because I do not know how guns are presumed to work and the article doesn't say what gun rules it is using.

Scarab Sages

A Man In Black wrote:
It's entirely useless to me, because I do not know how guns are presumed to work and the article doesn't say what gun rules it is using.

Shouldn't matter, eh? The class does its thing with firearms, regardless of the rules.

But if you need an official declaration: firearms from the Golarion CS.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Tom Baumbach wrote:
Shouldn't matter, eh? The class does its thing with firearms, regardless of the rules.

That's a worrying attitude. If firearms are as good as composite longbows, then this class is OP. If they're as good as slings, it's obviously not. I don't have the PCCS to comment further, however.

Scarab Sages

A Man In Black wrote:
That's a worrying attitude. If firearms are as good as composite longbows, then this class is OP. If they're as good as slings, it's obviously not. I don't have the PCCS to comment further, however.

1) You have to assume it's using an established and balanced-with-core rulesset. Dragon #321, the Golarion CS, the 3.5 DMG, take your pick. None of those (or others that I'm aware of) equate bows/x-bows and guns, so as far as I can tell your concern is unfounded.

2) *If* a certain firearms rulesset makes this class too appealing to be fair, I'd like to be told why. But remember the focus isn't the firearms rulesset, its the class.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Tom Baumbach wrote:
2) *If* a certain firearms rulesset makes this class too appealing to be fair, I'd like to be told why. But remember the focus isn't the firearms rulesset, its the class.

You give out three ranged attacks at full BAB, plus Manyshot. This implies a weapon more like a light crossbow than a composite longbow.

Scarab Sages

A Man In Black wrote:
You give out three ranged attacks at full BAB, plus Manyshot. This implies a weapon more like a light crossbow than a composite longbow.

I am forced to agree. I fail to see your point; again, you've said nothing about the class that is relevant.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Tom Baumbach wrote:
I am forced to agree. I fail to see your point; again, you've said nothing about the class that is relevant.

I just did. You're giving the class three attacks at full BAB -2, with one of them hitting for double. Any class with large amounts of +damage per hit is going to do things with that, so you might want to test what kind of damage a ranger/gunmarshal or rogue/gunmarshal is doing and see if it's in line with typical damage per round at that level. I can't do the math for you.

Other issues:

  • Cannons are firearms.
  • Rapid Shot is a lame reward for a level 7 ranged specialist.
  • Lawful neutral is awfully strict for a class which boils down to "intimidating guy who shoots people."
  • An AC bonus is a weird ability for a strictly ranged class.
  • Customization could boil down to "Gain a fighter bonus feat." It's not very interesting.
  • The only socialization ability is at level 5, and it is "Automatically succeed at every socialization check ever."

  • Scarab Sages

    A Man In Black wrote:
    I can't do the math for you.

    Pass.

    A Man In Black wrote:
  • Cannons are firearms.
  • Valid; some terminology fixing is in order to stop those who would dual-wield the Great Maw of Rovagug and the Worldbreaker.

    A Man In Black wrote:
  • Rapid Shot is a lame reward for a level 7 ranged specialist.
  • Except when you can't normally take it with your ranged weapon.

    A Man In Black wrote:
  • Lawful neutral is awfully strict for a class which boils down to "intimidating guy who shoots people."
  • Yep.

    A Man In Black wrote:
  • An AC bonus is a weird ability for a strictly ranged class.
  • It's something to promote the lightly-armored sheriff stereotype that the class is based on.

    A Man In Black wrote:
  • Customization could boil down to "Gain a fighter bonus feat." It's not very interesting.
  • Except that it's tied to a specific firearm or firearms specifically. So kinda interesting. If that kinda thing interests you. Which, I'm guessing, for you, it doesn't.

    Also, yeah that's kinda the point.

    A Man In Black wrote:
  • The only socialization ability is at level 5, and it is "Automatically succeed at every socialization check ever."
  • Valid; I'll assume you meant to say something constructive, like, "How about toning down that ability, and giving the class some other social options while you're at it?" and take it under advisement.


    A Man in Black, this is a class developed specifically for the Mana Wastes, where magic no longer works. Golarion has a built-in firearms system, so your lack of campaign familiarity is tainting your objectivity.

    While I've seen a few valid points, you seem to be against firearms in the first place. One of the balancing points of firearms to bows/crossbows, is that bows and crossbows don't blow up in your face.

    In addition, firearms can't be made for strength. And TRUST me, a high STR archer can wreak havoc with a powerful bow, ever seen a Large Ranger with a 20 or 22 str firing a Powerful bow with improved crit?

    In addition, Firearms are an exotic weapon.


    OK I'm reviewing the Class
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The customizations are interesting...not sure if I like them that much though.

    Customizing a singleshot rifle to be able to manyshot seems a bit wrong.

    If you're going to have that, you need to break out the different firearms and say what customizations will work on each one.

    A Six-shooter can take different customizations than a long rifle.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If you're going for the town marshall feel, you should focus more on the quick draw aspect. Make Improved Initiative/Quick Draw required feats, and then give additional initiative bonuses perhaps.
    OK I'm reviewing the Class
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I would bring canny defense more in line with one of the existing AC modifying mechanics rather than making a new one.

    New piece of Armor:
    Leather Duster. (same as armored kilt.)

    Silver Crusade

    Being a gun player, this intrigued me, as I'm probably the core audience this class would have. So with that said, let's get on with it:

    Canny Defense: I'm a fan of lightly armored characters, but for a character that bases on being a stalwart bastion of law, I have to say Charisma seems like a more natural (if not worse for gameplay) for this. Wisdom isn't bad, but it feels wrong compared to Charisma.

    Dead Eye: For a class making a lot of attacks, this seems a little overpowered, but not enough, as unlike with a bow, you don't get the base damage of a C. Bow, so this isn't a game breaker, just a bit strong. The swift action doesn't mean a lot to a melee class, so using one doesn't really hinder the player.

    Customizations: Honestly, I don't like these as feats, I'd rather they be actual mods in and of themselves. Rapid reload doesn't apply to guns as written, so a customization that said "reloading a firearm is a free action" or "increase the damage/attack roll of the chosen weapon by +X" seems like it'd feel better than just making it a feat, and therefore just like a fighter who gets some social skills.

    Intuition: Nothing wrong here, looks good.

    Iron Maelstrom: Again, at first it feels a bit too powerful (as you've probably already taken rapid shot, so you're getting 3+ attacks a round) with Dead Eye, but it's still not as good as bow wielding, so maybe I should just say "thanks for giving guns a chance next to bows".

    Law Giver: Odd as a capstone to the class, Iron Maelstrom sees to fit this role better, I'd put this around lv3 or so.

    For the most part, it's pretty cool and I like it, it just seems odd in a few respects.

    Always N.credible,

    N. Jolly

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

    Quote:
    Pass.

    It's not like it's hard, just do the math. And you might want to actually justify the alignment restriction somewhere, since it's really arbitrary.

    Quote:
    It's something to promote the lightly-armored sheriff stereotype that the class is based on.

    The max dex limit on heavy armor will do that for you.

    Quote:
    Valid; I'll assume you meant to say something constructive, like, "How about toning down that ability, and giving the class some other social options while you're at it?" and take it under advisement.

    It's your class, you deal with the problem however makes you happy. I'm just identifying extant problems.

    Professor Xane Rourke wrote:
    While I've seen a few valid points, you seem to be against firearms in the first place. One of the balancing points of firearms to bows/crossbows, is that bows and crossbows don't blow up in your face.

    Wait, what?

    I'm not biased against firearms and D&D. I'm just unfamiliar with the rules he's using, so I don't know if this is meant as a "Make firearms as good as bows" in the style of Whip Master or Duelist or whatever, or "Flavorful specialist PrC."

    But three full BAB attacks in five levels is pretty strong, so you're going to want to do the math on classes that get flat additional damage on a per-attack basis. Paladins, rangers, and rogues are going to be your chief culprits.


    Just a general comment. I do like the class concept and I understand that one can simply plug and play whatever firearm rules they want to use. I'm still having issues with the class restriction, though. Extremely narrow, which won't allow too many people to take advantage of it. What's the reasoning behind it?


    From what little I could see, it looks interesting, but for some reason the page formatting was screwed up and the tables were entirely overlapped.

    Scarab Sages

    Urizen wrote:
    Just a general comment. I do like the class concept and I understand that one can simply plug and play whatever firearm rules they want to use. I'm still having issues with the class restriction, though. Extremely narrow, which won't allow too many people to take advantage of it. What's the reasoning behind it?

    As the lawmen of Alkenstar, I chose LN for the gunmarshall prestige class to further project them as the epitome of Alkenstar dominion.

    That being said, I'm not married to the one-and-only alignment, and "any Lawful" would suffice just as well.

    QOShea wrote:
    From what little I could see, it looks interesting, but for some reason the page formatting was screwed up and the tables were entirely overlapped.

    IE7, right? (That would be the only browser I know of that doesn't work with my site.) I really am sorry I can't be more helpful, but making stuff work for IE7 is more work than I'm willing to put forth.


    Tom Baumbach wrote:
    IE7, right? (That would be the only browser I know of that doesn't work with my site.) I really am sorry I can't be more helpful, but making stuff work for IE7 is more work than I'm willing to put forth.

    IE 6 actually.


    Tom Baumbach wrote:


    As the lawmen of Alkenstar, I chose LN for the gunmarshall prestige class to further project them as the epitome of Alkenstar dominion.

    That being said, I'm not married to the one-and-only alignment, and "any Lawful" would suffice just as well.

    Now that makes more sense to me by making it any Lawful.

    Scarab Sages

    Version II is up, thanks for the comments thus far. I've also reproduced the firearm rules (which as far as I can tell are OGC) for ease of reference.

    QOShea wrote:
    IE 6 actually.

    Turns out making my site work with IE6 isn't so hard. I don't have IE6 to check compatibility, but I'm pretty sure it'll work now.

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