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So last night the party (level 6) finally got around to going back to Thisletop and exploring the rest of lower dungeon.
Now before I go on I need to lay out that the party is a three man cell. Since two of the players, both clerics, decided to quit. One of the players decided to leave his cleric behind and be run by me (unfortunatly the cleric died last week fight Aldern). What the party was left with was the following:
Candace, Level 6 Dwarf (formerly an elf before reincarnation) Summoner - Formerly a druid, but was rebuilt when the playtest started
Areseh, Level 6 Teifling Monk
Laz, Level 4 Gnome (formerly a halfling before reincarnation this session)Rogue - Was killed by Rogors Craesby while the party was checking out Hambley farm.
After beating doen Aldern the party returned to Sandpoint with enough loot to sell for a Reincarnation scroll (the party for one reason or another is always broke). They recieve it and with some help from Madame Madame Mvashti bring Laz back into the world of the living.
Day or two go by and the group finds itself heading back to Thistletop. After finishing off Nualia they never explored the rest of the place. Both Areseh and Candace found themselves involved with the pillar in E5, so Laz decided to check out E6 himself. Well after walking in and discovering the door he was ambushed the three shadows. Now comes the bad part. Every character in the party likes to think of themselves as a "tank". Laz rarely uses his sneak attack or other rogue abilites, instead just runs up and hits things. Candace, even as a druid, sees herself as the main damage dealer never, is rarely, using her spells.
Well two rounds after initiative was rolled the party found themselves again with a dead rogue, and now funds to bring him back. The two pushed on and somehow toppled Malfeshnekor. After swinging on the Aresah while invisible. She countered with a stunning fist. Followed in the next round by stunning fist. Malfeshnekor failed every save against the her fists (DC 16, but he never rolled above a 3).
So now I'm left with just the two. The player of Laz may not be coming back, almost definiatly. How can I continue the adventure with the two? Should I look into Gestalting as an option?
If I may say so, it sounds like either you or your players are doing something wrong.
I don't know all the details (including age of those involved and experience with roleplaying), but two things really strike out:
1) Group death: You have lost 2, perhaps 3 players within what I assume is a fairly short period. That could suggest you are either doing something they don't like or they are immature.
2) Party make-up: The players seem to be playing fighter/tank type tactics but using roles more suited for other things...either they should change their tactics or their characters. Is it because they don't know how to play "optimally"? (I normally hate it when people talk about someone not playing "correctly", but if a primary spellcaster rarely uses spells, there seems to be something wrong, no?)
My advice, talk to the players, see if they have different wishes than you, and if you can meet those. Try to get a couple more players, as playing with two is normally not as fun as with 3-5 players (though exceptions do exist). I'd not go with Gestalts...was never a fan of the system, but that's my personal opinion. If you can't get more than two players, I'd change the encounters to adjust for it instead. And perhaps give the players an NPC or two...Leadership is a great feat for when they reach 7th level.
Good luck with the game.
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The players, and the two that left, are wrapped up in this idea that Clerics and Druids, and in Candace's line of thought the Summoner, can all do melee better than any other class. Especially when you look at CoDzilla. And since the Summoner has the same BaB as the two and access to enlarge person and bull's strength should be able to do the same.
The two clerics left after 1)They saw Clerics lost heavy armor profeciency, 2)Where not allowed to take over Sandpoint and slaughter all those who opposed them 3)Saw the changes to some the spells they regularly used in 3.5
Oh and did I mention the Clerics above were both CG. But in there opinion "Since were clerics of a WAR god we should be allowed to kill whatever we want with out suffering any backlash."
All players, with the exception of one (one of the clerics), are mature in since that most of us 28-30 years of age. Mentally I peg certain players at about 10, if not younger.
For those of you on the boards that have sat in on one of game threads before have heard my complaint about a few of these players before.
So far both Candace and Areseh both want to continue. I have a problem with finding players were I live 1)We live in bible belt area and people don't look well on gamers in the region 2)Those that do play for the most part do so in private, and their games and players don't join other peoples games 3)We only have one place to game, Candace's player's house, and she can be paranoid about having strangers in the house. Last time I brought up adding a new player she had a 10 step approval process to ok the player.
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The players, and the two that left, are wrapped up in this idea that Clerics and Druids, and in Candace's line of thought the Summoner, can all do melee better than any other class. Especially when you look at CoDzilla. And since the Summoner has the same BaB as the two and access to enlarge person and bull's strength should be able to do the same.
Except they have fewer HP than a fighter ... and almost certainly a lower AC.
The two clerics left after 1)They saw Clerics lost heavy armor profeciency, 2)Where not allowed to take over Sandpoint and slaughter all those who opposed them 3)Saw the changes to some the spells they regularly used in 3.5
Oh and did I mention the Clerics above were both CG. But in there opinion "Since were clerics of a WAR god we should be allowed to kill whatever we want with out suffering any backlash."
YIKES. I hope you pointed out there is a definite difference between War and Slaughter. If they really want to play that route (and you are willing to run it) there's always Norgorber, god of murder, etc ... though they would have to ditch the CG alignment.
All players, with the exception of one (one of the clerics), are mature in since that most of us 28-30 years of age. Mentally I peg certain players at about 10, if not younger.
Fromt the reasons the two wanted to leave the game, I am surprised at the age level ... I'm running the same AP (with some heavy editing when it comes to part 3)for a group of kids ages 10-13 ... I've had to remind them several times about their alignments, but they never got to the point of wanting to run wild in the streets of Sandpoint.
So far both Candace and Areseh both want to continue. I have a problem with finding players were I live 1)We live in bible belt area and people don't look well on gamers in the region 2)Those that do play for the most part do so in private, and their games and players don't join other peoples games 3)We only have one place to game, Candace's player's house, and she can be paranoid about having strangers in the house. Last time I brought up adding a new player she had a 10 step approval process to ok the player.
Crazy Bible Belt ... I'm in NC, but am in a fairly open minded area with a decent gamer population. Lucked out there.
If finding other players is a problem, and having limited access to playing areas is also a factor, then 1 or 2 NPCs may be a good idea ... might I suggest a fighter and a cleric (it sounds like they may be needing a band aid on a regular basis). This also would give you a ready made character for another player to pick up if their character dies mid-session or if you do find another player.
Good luck!
Sounds like a communication problem to me too.
All your interactions with the player should be in the spirit of fun and cooperation. That's the only part of this equation you can control. If you're lucky and really committed to the above statement, all you can do is hope that you have good players, or at least okay players who are willing to be constructive and meet you halfway.
It does sound like your larger group had their heads full of ideas from the internet. That's really dangerous — my party's experience differs so widely from some of the CharOp/TierX/WizardsRule players that I often wonder if we're playing the same game. Sometimes, a CharOp fellow says something insightful that makes our game more fun, and sometimes it twists the players ideas until they forget how the game works.
Anyway, it sounds like your remaining players want to play, and you want to play, so build from there. Talk to them about why their methods aren't working and what you think they ought to have done differently, in the spirit of fun and cooperation.
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Sounds like a communication problem to me too.
All your interactions with the player should be in the spirit of fun and cooperation. That's the only part of this equation you can control. If you're lucky and really committed to the above statement, all you can do is hope that you have good players, or at least okay players who are willing to be constructive and meet you halfway.
It does sound like your larger group had their heads full of ideas from the internet. That's really dangerous — my party's experience differs so widely from some of the CharOp/TierX/WizardsRule players that I often wonder if we're playing the same game. Sometimes, a CharOp fellow says something insightful that makes our game more fun, and sometimes it twists the players ideas until they forget how the game works.
Anyway, it sounds like your remaining players want to play, and you want to play, so build from there. Talk to them about why their methods aren't working and what you think they ought to have done differently, in the spirit of fun and cooperation.
Agreed. DMing with 2 players can be loads of fun. Don't add too many NPCs... One very good strong fighter(Tank) who shows the remaining players what is a real fighter should be enough.
Tune down the AP a bit and talk with the remaining players that it would probably help if they were playing differently.Summoner is good at summoning things and casting spells from afar. Trying to avoid combat as much as necessary. Monks are sub optimal tanks and should be more skirmishers or mage hunters. If they really want ot be melee orientated try to help them in their feat choice by showing them where they could go along the feat tree.
Now for your cleric friends it looks like they are more breaking your games than anything else. PF Clerics are more powerful than 3.5 and all they lost was a single feat (caught back at lvl 4 if i'm not mistaken).
So if you lose those players, may be that's good. It will help the remaining ones.
Specially if the ones who left are very immature.
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Obvious solution is a certain approach to gestalt.
Give them both gestalt with their current class and either fighter or Barbarian - suddenly they're rocking hit points, BAB, decent weapons and armour proficiencies/DR.
So they can play the same way, have the fun magic-wielding and survive with two players.