A while ago, I tried to craft a new way of handling counterspells. It was supposed to be used in a campaign that sadly never managed to take off. Still, this is something I’ve always wanted to try out, since I believe the counterspelling mechanic has a lot of room for improvement and extra flavour. While not enough to make a class or a specialist entirely around it, it could be a great tool for an Abjuration Wizard or something on those lines.
The system is about special spells that can be used as “universal counterspells” much in the way of Dispel Magic (and have a specific [Counterspell] subtype inside the Abjuration school), but add some special functions (such as changing variables, storing the spell, bouncing it back and even controlling it entirely). A couple of feats and a related magic item are also included at the end.
Now, keep in mind nothing of this has been playtested, so I don’t really know how it works out in practice. While these types of counterspells are more effective than the standard counterspells, they are limited by the fact they have to be prepared in advance (thus using a slot specifically for a counterspell, without the other benefits of Dispel Magic). This is supposedly balanced by the additional effects each one of these counterspells have.
First, the subschool clarification:
Abjuration [Counterspelling]: All spells from this group are intended to be used in response to a spell cast by an opponent. The caster must first select the target he will be focusing on and choose a Ready Action, in order to complete the action when the target casts the spell to be countered. For any of these spells to work, the caster must succeed at a dispel check. If failed, the counterspell is spent but has no effect. Additionally, some spells with require a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + level of the target spell) in order to identify the spell and carry out some special effects.
Second, the spells proper:
Abjuration [Counterspelling]
Level: Sorc/Wiz 3
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100 feet + 10 feet per caster level)
Target: One spellcaster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Special; see below
Spell Resistance: No
Spell Concussion disrupts spells and bounces their raw energies back at their casters. After a successful Dispel check, the target spell is countered, and its caster is knocked prone and stunned for one round, plus an additional round for every 3 levels of the spell cast (so the caster of a Freezing Sphere affected by Spell Concussion will be knocked prone and left stunned for 2 rounds). A Fortitude saving throw negates the stunning.
Abjuration [Counterspell]
Level: Sorc/Wiz 4
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100 feet + 10 feet per caster level)
Target: One spellcaster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Special; see below
Spell Resistance: No
Spells targeted with Spell Backlash twist and bend until they break, recoiling at their casters with raw, uncontrollable magical forces. After a successful Dispel check, the target spell is countered, and its caster is subject to 1d6 points of force damage per level of the spell (so the caster of a Wind Wall countered with Spell Backlash would receive 3d6 points of force damage). A successful Will saving throw negates half the damage.
Abjuration [Counterspell]
Level: Sorc/Wiz 5
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100 feet + 10 feet per caster level)
Target: One spellcaster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Through this counterspell, the caster is able to literally steal the spell being countered. The caster must first succeed at both a Spellcraft check to identify the spell and a Dispel check for the counterspell to work (if the Spellcraft check fails, the counterspell is not spent, though it doesn’t work). If successful, the countered spell fails to fully resolve, instead being temporarily trapped in a swirling pocket of raw magic within the Ethereal Plane. While kept there, the caster of Spell Theft will be able to cast the spell as if he had prepared it, though he must meet all the necessary requirements to cast it (such as minimum level, class restrictions and material components). If unable to meet the requirements, the spell dissipates into the ether and normally countered. Casting a spell subject to Spell Theft doesn’t count against the caster’s daily spell limit.
When the trapped spell is cast, it will be considered, for all purposes, as if used by the caster of Spell Theft (thus, a Lightning Bolt stolen by a 6th level wizard from a 10th level opponent will only deal a maximum of 6d6, instead of 10d6, and the saving throw will vary accordingly).
A spell will only remain trapped for a number of rounds equal to the level of Spell Theft’s caster. If not cast within that amount of time, the spell is wasted. If able to procure a Bottle of Spell Storing of the appropriate level, however, the caster may attempt to permanently trap the spell inside the container for later use.
Spells that depend on special circumstances to work (such as an Instant Summon spell that targets an object inscribed with an Arcane Mark) can be stolen by Spell Theft. However, the caster won’t be able to use them, so the spell will eventually go to waste.
Abjuration [Counterspell]
Level: Sorc/Wiz 6
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100 feet + 10 feet per caster level)
Target: One spellcaster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This counterspell allows the caster to manipulate the variables of the targeted spell. The caster must first succeed at both a Spellcraft check to identify the spell and a Dispel check for the counterspell to work (if the Spellcraft check fails, the counterspell is not spent, though it doesn’t work). If successful, he will be able to modify any variable of the spell other than target, such as damage, size of the effect area or any special effect that asks the caster to choose from a series of options (such as the specific monster summoned by a Summon Monster spell). All the variables must be modified within the limits imposed by the spell and the original caster’s level (so a Fireball cast by a level 7th wizard that is subject to Spell Meddling may see its damage reduced to 1d6, but not increased to 10d6, nor down to 0d6). Any effect resulting from a Metamagic Feat still applies (so if the aforementioned Fireball was Maximized, its dice will still maximum damage). If any of these changes would make the original spell impossible to happen (such as making it unable to affect its original caster anymore), the spell is countered as if it was subject to a normal counterspell.
All the rolls involved with the spell (such as damage rolls) are still made by the original caster, so any special circumstance that affects those rolls (such as an Evocation Specialist Wizard’s Intense Spell supernatural ability) are still considered. Similarly, saving throws are determined based on the original caster’s scores.
Abjuration [Counterspell]
Level: Sorc/Wiz 7
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: Medium (100 feet + 10 feet per caster level)
Target: One spellcaster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This counterspell works just like Spell Meddling, plus allowing the caster to freely select a new target for the countered spell. The new target must still meet all the requirements imposed by the spell, and has to be within range of the original caster. If the spell allows it, it can be controlled to target the original caster instead. If the spell has multiple targets, the caster of Spell Manipulation must choose an equal amount of new targets (possibly forcing him to select some of the same initial targets), unless the spell allows to choose the same target more than once. Also, the caster of Spell Manipulation must be able to see the new targets.
All the rolls involved with the spell (such as damage rolls, or touch attack rolls) are still made by the original caster, so any special circumstance that affects those rolls (such as an Evocation Specialist Wizard’s Intense Spell supernatural ability, or the original caster’s attack bonus) are still considered. Similarly, saving throws are determined based on the original caster’s scores.
Now, a couple of related feats to add extra ingredients:
You are an expert in the art of countering spells.
Prerrequisite: Must have not selected Abjuration as a prohibited school.
Benefit: You add +2 to any Dispel or Spellcraft check made to counter other spells.
You always have a counterspell handy.
Prerrequisites: Counterspelling Specialist Feat. Ability to cast 3rd level spells or higher.
Benefit: For Wizards, once per day, you may prepare any spell from the [Counterspelling] subschool that is in your spellbook and you are able to cast. This spell does not count against you maximum number of prepared spells. For Sorcerers, once a day, you may cast any spell from the [Counterspelling] subschool, without this counting against your maximum number of daily spells.
And finally, the item mentioned in Spell Theft:
Abjurers who specialize in the use of Spell Theft always keep these bottles handy in order to stash those spells they have snatched from their foes in order to have them handy for later use. The bottle consists of carefully carved glass blown inside an oven which was kept alight with oak charcoal during a night in which a shooting star was seen passing by, and then filled with water obtained from melting snow from the top of a mountain and distilled three times. Used in conjunction with Spell Theft, the caster may store any spell currently trapped by this mean in the Ethereal Plane into the bottle by simply removing the cork (which constitutes a free action). Once trapped inside, the spell may be kept there for as long as a year and a day, after which it simply vanishes into nothingness. Though normally they emit a faint aura of Abjuration, a Bottle of Spell Storing currently keeping a spell of another school will emit the appropriate aura instead.
Each Bottle of Spell Storing has to be designed to store a specific level of spell. Thus, a Bottle of Spell Storing of the 3rd Level is able to store level 3 and lower spells, while a Bottle of Spell Storing of the 9th Level can store any kind of spell.
In order to use a spell trapped inside a Bottle of Spell Storing, the container has to be broken, after which the spell must be cast immediately or lost. Spells cast this way do not need to be prepared nor count against the daily limit of casts, though all the spell’s requirements, such as minimum level, class and ability scores, must be met. Otherwise, the spell is wasted.
Faint Abjuration; CL 10th; Brew Potion, spell theft; Price 50 gp per Spell Level.
So, my good lads and lasses, what do you think? Do you believe it would be a balanced enough? And, more importantly, something a mage would like to pick up and use?
Klaus, are you familiar with the Spellthief base class from Complete Adventurer (p.13)? There's something you may want to review with regard to scaling the capability to steal spells and turn them against the spellcaster or another opponent as well as how the damage should be dealt accordingly. Reviewing that may change your concept as well as possibly even reducing the level of the caster being able to employ these type of spells.
I do think these have some potential though. I personally don't like the current counterspell rules as they are as you're not always guaranteed to have the matching available spell on hand to counter your opponent's and disable accordingly.
Definitely something worth 'Pathfindering'.
I actually have tossed around the idea of having a sorcerer counterspell feat. like improved counterspell, but on the round following a succesful counterspell, if the sorcerer casts a spell, they utilize the spell energy, giving them a +1 to CL for that particular spell.
This would be the "sorcerers version" of improved counterspell. Other feats could tree from it, allowing a sorcerer to gain a 1+1d2 to CL up to ChaMod/day, allowing them to store the energy for an amount of time, allowing them to store the energy themselves, replenishing their own spell slots, allowing them to recharge/ power magic items, allowing them to gain future bonuses to "warp" magical energy with a bonus to overcome SR, a +1 to DC, or even temporary spell-like abilities.
Thoughts?
Klaus, are you familiar with the Spellthief base class from Complete Adventurer (p.13)? There's something you may want to review with regard to scaling the capability to steal spells and turn them against the spellcaster or another opponent as well as how the damage should be dealt accordingly. Reviewing that may change your concept as well as possibly even reducing the level of the caster being able to employ these type of spells.
I do think these have some potential though. I personally don't like the current counterspell rules as they are as you're not always guaranteed to have the matching available spell on hand to counter your opponent's and disable accordingly.
Definitely something worth 'Pathfindering'.
Hmm, I had no idea. I'll have to get a copy of that book in order to check what's it about. I'm all for making counterspelling more entertaining and useful. As you say, the mechanic of "same spell or bust" (or "same school, 3 levels above, or bust", depending if you have the feat or not) is kind of clumsy and far too limiting. I've always wanted something more on the lines of, say, Magic the Gathering, where you could have specific kinds of powers designed to counterspell in many different ways.
I actually have tossed around the idea of having a sorcerer counterspell feat. like improved counterspell, but on the round following a succesful counterspell, if the sorcerer casts a spell, they utilize the spell energy, giving them a +1 to CL for that particular spell.
This would be the "sorcerers version" of improved counterspell. Other feats could tree from it, allowing a sorcerer to gain a 1+1d2 to CL up to ChaMod/day, allowing them to store the energy for an amount of time, allowing them to store the energy themselves, replenishing their own spell slots, allowing them to recharge/ power magic items, allowing them to gain future bonuses to "warp" magical energy with a bonus to overcome SR, a +1 to DC, or even temporary spell-like abilities.
Thoughts?
While I don't know about the numbers, I think the concept behind your idea is very intriguing. Sort of a "spell syphoning sorcerer", that uses the raw magical energies of other casters for his own ends. I like the idea.
Klaus,
I’ll give you a bit of a synopsis. Spellthief is essentially a rogue / sorcerer variant. He can siphon spell energy from his opponent and use it himself. For this build, when he hits his opponent with a successful sneak attack, he can forgo the damage dealt and instead steal a spell or the potential to cast a specific known spell. And if the spellcaster is willing, a spell can be stolen with a touch as a standard action.
Target of the stolen spell loses one 0 or 1st level spell from memory if prepared or the spell slot if a spontaneous caster. The spontaneous caster also loses the ability to cast the stolen spell for 1 minute (or until the spell’s duration expires – whichever is first). If the target does not have any spells prepared or have used all of their spell slots, then stealing spells have no effect. The spellthief can choose which spell to steal or the DM can choose at random. If a spell is attempted to be stolen that isn’t available, then it is determined randomly from spells available the target possesses. After stealing, the spellthief can cast the spell himself on his next turn. Treat the casting of the spell as if it were casted by the original owner of the spell for purposes of CL, save DC, etc. Spellthief can cast the spell even if he doesn’t have the minimum ability score normally required. Spellthief must supply the same components (V/S/M) required for the stolen spell. However, a spell cannot be stolen if its caster level exceeds his class level + ability modifier (in this case, CHA).
Beginning at 4th level, the spellthief can use the stolen spell power to cast any of his own spells that he already knows of the same level or lower (effectively giving him one free casting of a known spell) within one hour of stealing it; otherwise that free spell energy dissipates.
I believe the mechanics requires success on a level check of d20 + class level versus a DC of 10 + the opponent’s caster level).
As he gains levels, he can choose to steal higher level spells. Beginning at 4th level, he can steal spells up to 2nd level and for every two levels gained after the 4th, the maximum spell level stolen increases by one. At any one time, the spellthief can possess a maximum number of stolen spell levels equal to his class level (0 level spells treated as ½ level). If he steals a spell that causes him to exceed the limit, he must choose to lose stolen spells sufficient to reduce his total number of stolen spell levels up to his maximum.
Metamagic feats cannot be applied to stolen spells unless the specific stolen spell was prepared with said feats. That applies mainly to prepared spells. It won’t work against spontaneous casters as the they apply their metamagic effects upon casting.
At 3rd level, he can siphon off some or all of a target’s resistance level to an energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic). Using the same successful sneak attack and foregoing the damage, he gains temporary resistance 10 to an energy type to which his target is resistant / immune. This can also be stolen as a touch in a standard action if said target is willing. The target’s SR is also reduced by 10 when this occurs. But if the creature is immune, it keeps its immunity. If the target has multiple SRs, the spellthief can choose which to steal unless the DM chooses such randomly. Again, it lasts for up to a minute or to the end of its duration, whichever occurs first. It can be used multiple times, but it does not stack unless they apply to different energy types.
At 5th level, he can steal a target’s spell-like ability in the same mechanisms as listed previously. It can originate from the target’s class, race, template, or any other source and can be of any level up to a maximum of 1/3rd the class level. If the spell-like ability has a limited number of functions per day, the target must have at least one use left or it cannot be stolen. Target cannot use their ability that was stolen until its duration ends with the spellthief.
Since the class is really not OGL, you'll definitely want to change the mechanics to make it more of your own. You'd definitely want to use a method other than the sneak attack method to activate certain functions. Defensive Casting or Combat Casting may also be considered as prereqs as you see fit. With these in mind, maybe you'll have a different take on how you want to finesse "counterspelling".
Good luck!
This is a good start.
I'd be interested to see your take on the mechanics of counterspelling. One significant issue is the "tit for tat" nature of it. It's like high level combat where someone always whips out the dispel magic to strip buffs off opponents. The spells you propose go a long way to making it more flavorful, I should say.
Klaus,
I’ll give you a bit of a synopsis. Spellthief is essentially a rogue / sorcerer variant. He can siphon spell energy from his opponent and use it himself. For this build, when he hits his opponent with a successful sneak attack, he can forgo the damage dealt and instead steal a spell or the potential to cast a specific known spell. And if the spellcaster is willing, a spell can be stolen with a touch as a standard action.
Target of the stolen spell loses one 0 or 1st level spell from memory if prepared or the spell slot if a spontaneous caster. The spontaneous caster also loses the ability to cast the stolen spell for 1 minute (or until the spell’s duration expires – whichever is first). If the target does not have any spells prepared or have used all of their spell slots, then stealing spells have no effect. The spellthief can choose which spell to steal or the DM can choose at random. If a spell is attempted to be stolen that isn’t available, then it is determined randomly from spells available the target possesses. After stealing, the spellthief can cast the spell himself on his next turn. Treat the casting of the spell as if it were casted by the original owner of the spell for purposes of CL, save DC, etc. Spellthief can cast the spell even if he doesn’t have the minimum ability score normally required. Spellthief must supply the same components (V/S/M) required for the stolen spell. However, a spell cannot be stolen if its caster level exceeds his class level + ability modifier (in this case, CHA).
Beginning at 4th level, the spellthief can use the stolen spell power to cast any of his own spells that he already knows of the same level or lower (effectively giving him one free casting of a known spell) within one hour of stealing it; otherwise that free spell energy dissipates.
I believe the mechanics requires success on a level check of d20 + class level versus a DC of 10 + the opponent’s caster level).
As he gains levels, he can choose to steal higher level spells....
Hmm, that's a really interesting take on the spell-stealing thing. Maybe spellcasters could have a "counterspelling stance" that allowed them to perform certain actions related to it or something on those lines. I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks a lot of the very insightful data, Urizen.
This is a good start.
I'd be interested to see your take on the mechanics of counterspelling. One significant issue is the "tit for tat" nature of it. It's like high level combat where someone always whips out the dispel magic to strip buffs off opponents. The spells you propose go a long way to making it more flavorful, I should say.
Thanks, mate. This stuff is still pretty much on diapers, so there is a lot of things to be done. Counterspelling can be turned into a really interesting mechanic.
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Master of Counterspelling
You always have a counterspell handy.
Prerequisites: Counterspelling Specialist Feat. Ability to cast 3rd level spells or higher.
Benefit: For Wizards, once per day, you may prepare any spell from the [Counterspelling] subschool that is in your spellbook as an immediate action and you are able to cast this spell on your next action (which could be immediately). This spell does not count against your maximum number of prepared spells. For Sorcerers, once a day, you may cast any spell from the [Counterspelling] subschool, even if that spell is not a Known spell, without this counting against your maximum number of daily spells.
I tweaked the phrasing a bit, and it might be clearer now, or perhaps I added something you didn't intend...
My own Counterspelling tweaks (intended primarily for specialist Abjurers, making them a different beast entirely from your stuff).
Some of your [counterspell] options remind me of some spells I submitted to the Relics & Rituals 2 open call, specifically Negate Dweomer (a spell that ends any arcane spell the caster personally cast, even if it isn't normally one that he can end as a standard action), Suppress Dweomer (same effect, but he can turn it back on as a free action, throughout it's duration, allowing him to turn a wall of force on and off throughout its duration, for instance, to allow allies past, but block foes) and Improved Suppress Dweomer (same as Suppress Dweomer, but the duration does not expire while while the spell is suppressed, allowing him to cast a haste spell and 'nurse' it through the day, using a few rounds here, and a few rounds there). A spell with a permanant or indefinite duration effect, such as continual flame or explosive runes could be turned on and off at will by Suppress Dweomer, possibly for years.
It seemed like a neat concept, and I like seeing what you've done with these sorts of dispel-themed spells as well.