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Disclaimer:* I know the ideas I'm about to present may not be well received by the community. I think these may be viable alternatives to the eidolon-centered Summoner. They are in no way intended as an attempt to devalue or disrespect Jason's or any other member of the Paizo team's work; they're just options to consider.*
I can't say that I'm totally in love with the idea of a PC playing second fiddle to his NPC buddy. While it may be fun to play a monster for a while, I have read a few posts expressing concern about the power levels of the critter -i.e. being close to equal to another complete PC, plus you get another slightly underpowered (maybe) PC as backup.
I'm also concerned about the RP consequences of having an alien being the dominant force of the duo in a humanocentric game world.
To this end, I propose two alternatives to the Summoner class as is; the first adjusts the eidolon power level downwards, and turns it into a capable helper for the PC, but does not overshadow it. The second alternative would be to eliminate the eidolon altogether and retool the Summoner into a true master of the Conjuration [summoning] list.
Option 1:
The first thing I would do is trim back the eidolon to 3/4 HD of the Summoner. At 20th level, the creature would end at 15 HD instead of 17 and the HD would maintain that approximate ratio at lower levels (3 HD at 4th, 6 HD at 8th, 9HD at 12th etc) with a minimum of 2 HD at first. All outsider traits remain unchanged, except it counts as called so Protection from X does not affect its physical attacks.
The only other thing I would do is reduce the number of Evolution points (that name still annoys me) to 3/4 of what they get over the 20 Summoner levels.
I think that those two changes would reduce the power level of the eidolon sufficiently that the PC would become the dominant element of the duo (or at least an equal partner) without reducing it to the point of no longer being an asset for the party.
Option 2:
Cut out the eidolon and all associated powers from the Summoner class and replace them with a slightly more robust spell progression and class abilities to augment summoning and calling spells.
Level 1: Summoner adds his CHA bonus (or half of level, minimum 1) to the number of rounds a summoned monster lasts for (spell or SLA).
Level 2: Augment Summoning as a bonus feat without requiring Spell Focus (conj.) as a prerequisite.
Level 4: Communicate with summoned creatures -Summoner can issue commands to summoned creatures to execute complex tasks, even if they are animal intelligence or mindless. (The new templates in the Bestiary do not change the intelligence of celestial/fiendish creatures. This gives a bump to the class by enabling them to do things non-specialists cannot do)
Level 6: Summoner's Call -character may recall up to CHA bonus summoned/called creatures to be in adjacent squares, as per Dimension door. I like the Maker's call ability, but it could just as easily be applied to summoned creatures.
Level 8: Transposition -same only with the highest level creature you have summoned that's in short (maybe medium?) range.
Level 10: Badass monsters -All summoned creatures have the simple advanced template
Level 12: Underpants
Level 14: ?
Level 16: Profit!
I don't have much beyond that, but people much brighter than I could certainly fill in the blanks and recajigger the powers to fit.
That's it. They're just suggestions, but maybe they can help make a great concept into an excellent, playable class.
Cheers!
X
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I think a more PC oriented summoner would have class abilities that do not hinge on the Eidolon. For instance, something like channel energy for outsiders. This allows the summoner to play a unique role within the party without their Eidolon.
Channel to harm unfriendlies and bolster your own. I like it!
Take away the eidolon and you basically have a wizard conjuration specialist, so that's not really an option. Personally I don't have a problem with the eidolon being potentially stronger than the pc. A player who wants the pc stronger is free to make his pc and eidolon in such a way that the eidolon plays suppport. The eidolon doesnt have to be a huge front line fighter; that is just one of many available builds for it. It could be a small humanoid figure that uses ranged attacks, either weapon or spell like abilities, or it could focus on support spells, or it could setup flank for the party rogue. Too many people seem to be trying to change the eidolon when it's their notion that pet=fighter that needs adjusting.
You can if you wish make the eidolon second fiddle to the summoner right now with the rules as is. You are not required to make hte eidolon a combat monster. You can give him spell like abilities to boost the summoner, and focus on senses and skills to give the summoner assistance. You can make it the summoners mount, and limit its offense for mobility and utility. The summoner can then with pretty good buffs of his own and average Bab/hd be the one in combat and be the star.
The idea behind the summoner originally is for it to be focused on its pet. There already is a class that has a secondary pet, the druid, we would end up with a conjuration version of the druid by your recomendation. What is the point of that?
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First off, I just wanna say thanks to eveyone who posted. You may not all agree with my position, but you've been very civil about your rebuttals. Thanks!
Honestly, I would prefer if they went the other direction - get rid of the Summoner completely, making a PC class that has the eidolon abilities as class abilities.
Whether it be from binding outsiders to your body, or molding 'extra bits' for yourself out of ether, whatever works.
This would be an interesting way to go, but the name Summoner wouldn't be accurate anymore. Transmogrifier might though. :)
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The idea behind the summoner originally is for it to be focused on its pet. There already is a class that has a secondary pet, the druid, we would end up with a conjuration version of the druid by your recomendation. What is the point of that?
Considering druids get to spontaneous cast summon nature allies, they actually get even closer to being similar.
I do like the notion variation with no eidolon at all, of course, you could probably accomplish the same with a sorcerer bloodline that was creature focused?
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Just throwing in my two cents--
I don't have a problem with the eidolon being most of the power. Just like a summoner wizard, it's the PC controlling them.
It's kind of like a mecha pilot and his mecha. The machine provides the firepower, but it's nothing without a pilot to control it. But then that's a few genres over.
If you find yourself viewing this as an outsider and its pet humanoid, how about changing the flavor in your game? Make them like an astral construct, purely an extension of the summoner's will given form. Or they could be your gnome tinker's mechanical creation, remote-controlled, or something.
As for balance issues, I haven't actually played it yet but I'm guessing the eidolon's unusual progression is because its evolutions don't fully match up to the powers of a full class -- like a monster, its CR isn't necessarily its HD. Druids and anyone who takes wild cohort can also have something with 2HD at level 1, without class features the extra HP is all it has going for it.
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Just throwing in my two cents--
I don't have a problem with the eidolon being most of the power. Just like a summoner wizard, it's the PC controlling them.
It's kind of like a mecha pilot and his mecha. The machine provides the firepower, but it's nothing without a pilot to control it. But then that's a few genres over.
If you find yourself viewing this as an outsider and its pet humanoid, how about changing the flavor in your game? Make them like an astral construct, purely an extension of the summoner's will given form. Or they could be your gnome tinker's mechanical creation, remote-controlled, or something.
As for balance issues, I haven't actually played it yet but I'm guessing the eidolon's unusual progression is because its evolutions don't fully match up to the powers of a full class -- like a monster, its CR isn't necessarily its HD. Druids and anyone who takes wild cohort can also have something with 2HD at level 1, without class features the extra HP is all it has going for it.
Thank you, you just gave me the justification I needed to have Summoners in my Steampunk campaign
It's funny. I have a player whose eidolon is his umm..companion (in the firefly sense of the word).
Biped, claws replaced with slams, and charm (3/day) along with skilled (for profession: corteasan).
She has been...intereting.
Batts
I have been playing the summoner at low levels and have not enjoyed the second fiddle role either. I understand that while I get to control the pet, I would like my PC to be a contributing member of the group. In that vein I think the next time I play the class I am going to try and multi class. I think the eidolon is strong enough in its current form that a couple levels in another class won't really phase it. I think for the Summoner to be a good stand alone class the summoner spell list needs to be expanded. Not necessarily to level 9 spells, but more spells per day with a couple of direct damage spells. I think they could have a lot of fun with those spells. Give them some spells unique to the home plane of the eidolon.
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It's funny. I have a player whose eidolon is his umm..companion (in the firefly sense of the word).
Biped, claws replaced with slams, and charm (3/day) along with skilled (for profession: corteasan).
She has been...intereting.
Batts
I figured someone would have that idea. One of my initial thoughts was how to thematically replicate the flavor of various demon archetypes.
It turns out, the "daemonette" is a pretty effective build, if you dont want to cheese out with a giant tentacle monster.
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Hey... it works for Ash and Pikachu. Or Yu-Gi-Oh if you prefer. Because it's very clear what where the inspirations for this class. Or think of the character as like the trainer of a boxer. The Boxer does all the combat but without his trainer he's nowhere.
IMO the boxer is the PC. The trainer is the plot device NPC. :)
I like the Eidolon being stronger it breaks the norm which I think is good for the game. I do feel your pain at low level the summoner is really lacking in things it can do but I think once we get a few level under our belt the Summoner will be more effective cause of his spells and should regain the spot light. The summoner is a much bigger tactical threat by virtue of its spells like slow and so on. You can also take evolutions away from your pet and give them to you. I think that is pretty cool.