There is a discussion on whether the Psionic system in the Pathfinder RPG should be based on power points or on a slot-based system. Other options seem to be off the table at the moment. Rather than discussing other options here, for the purposes of this thread, let us assume that the power point system will remain and work with it on that basis. Discussion of other systems and their relative merits, including slot-based psionics, can take place elsewhere.
It seems that the chief concern of Paizo with the power point system is the ability of Psionic characters to "go nova". Once they have burned through their power points by spending them on high-level abilities thus outclassing the rest of the party while their points last, they are henceforth useless until they rest. Arcane and divine spellcasters actually also have a "nova" potential, though it is theoretically less pronounced than that of psionic characters.
To put this slightly in perspective, maybe it is worth mentioning that the above is a game style-specific problem. It is problematic only in some game styles, mainly those that are based on static dungeon crawls. Hence, I must say that this problem rarely arises in my games. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean the issue should be ignored, of course, as the aforementioned play style is fairly common and certainly a valid way to play the game.
Still, it appears to be Paizo's primary concern with Psionics, so let's address it in this thread and think of solutions to the issue, but remaining within the general confines of the power point system.
Any ideas and suggestions on the topic would be welcome!
Not sure if that or the fact they can not use them in an AP is the bigger issue. Nova is not a big an issue as "we can't print that it eats up to many pages"
sorry for the threadjack but your looking at the wrong issue first.
Edit: I would also say it's not just the nova but the fact ya can use every point ya had to cast the same "spell" over and over while even the sorc is limited to 6. Or he could cast say his 7th level "spell' and nothing else all day till he is out of points. This is an issue when every one else is limited to a set number
There are even several options for mitigating the "nova" potential of Psionic characters and these can be mixed and matched for the desired effect. I am including some ideas below:
1) Balance the powers in such a way that you expect them to be used in the "nova manner". This would mean making psionic powers weaker than spells of equivalent level (especially at higher levels), which could be done during the conversion of Psionics, just like spells were depowered, but to a greater extent.
2) Require some sort of check for manifesting powers. This could be a manifester level check or Psicraft skill check, but judging from the direction that Pathfinder is taking, probably the former. The DCs could be arranged in such a way as to make higher level powers risk failure (or reduced effect if you designed that in too).
3) Decrease the relative desirability of higher level powers vis-a-vis lower level ones. There are many options on how to do this (apart from making the powers themselves weaker), ranging from fatigue penalties for manifesting highest level powers, through requiring sacrifice of health to manifest the top tier powers, all the way to restrictions on how often highest level powers can be manifested (e.g. only manifest top tier powers once per X [e.g. 2, 3, 4,...] rounds).
Not sure if that or the fact they can not use them in an AP is the bigger issue. Nova is not a big an issue as "we can't print that it eats up to many pages"
sorry for the threadjack but your looking at the wrong issue first.
Well, Paizo has stated that nova is the primary issue (page 13 of the other Psionic thread). Anyway, I really, really don't want to derail this thread into discussing other issues, though I should state that for me personally the inclusion or non-inclusion of psionics in adventure paths, adventures and so on is a complete non-issue, since I run my own campaigns and adventures. Anyway, that is a topic for another thread - "nova" potential is at the very least on of the main issues Paizo has (according to Paizo staff postings) with the power point system.
Edit: I would also say it's not just the nova but the fact ya can use every point ya had to cast the same "spell" over and over while even the sorc is limited to 6. Or he could cast say his 7th level "spell' and nothing else all day till he is out of points. This is an issue when every one else is limited to a set number
What you describe essentially is the "nova" issue!
A particularly suitable option that comes to mind in fixing the "nova" problem would be tinkering with manifesting time, as it would also help address alleged problems with the action economy of Psionic characters. Perhaps a Psionic character needs longer to manifest the higher level powers until he masters them sufficiently (advances in level) to optimize their manifesting. You could make the highest level powers take a full-round action (or even longer if you thought it necessary) to manifest. One hypothetical way to do it would be to have virtually all powers have a full round action as a manifesting time (just as virtually all have a standard action nowadays), but the psionic character would be able to reduce the full round manifesting time to a standard action manifesting time for powers the level of which did not exceed 1/3 of manifester level (rounded up). This is just an example, of course, there are many ways to do it and the optimal rule would have to be tested for balance anyway.
If you didn't want to mess with casting time itself, you could just say that highest level powers (relative to manifester level) are draining and their manifestation requires the Psionic character to rest during the next round. Perhaps the character would only be able to take a move action for the following round for the top level(s) powers (you could exclude level 1 to level X powers), for the slightly lower level(s), the rest requirement would enable him to take a standard action on the post-manifesting round and the lowest-level powers would require no rest at all.
The above could be implemented relative to the manifester level of the Psionic character. Alternatively, for lesser "nova" mitigative effect at lower levels (where it might be less needed however), but for greater simplicity it could be implemented in the absolute sense. For example, powers could be divided into categories:
Power Level 1-3: No rest needed after manifesting a power
Power Level 4-6: Manifesting a power is draining and the manifester must recuperate the next round, thus only able to take a standard action
Power Level 7-9: These powers require a great deal of exertion to manifest, tiring the manifester to such an extent that he can only take a move action during the subsequent round
If it was felt desirable to use this mechanic for lower-level augmented powers too, it could instead be used on the power points expended:
Power points expended per round:
0-5: No rest needed
6-11: Expending psionic energy at this rate is draining and the manifester must recuperate the next round, thus only able to take a standard action
12+: This rate of psionic energy expenditure requires a great deal of exertion, tiring the manifester to such an extent that he can only take a move action during the subsequent round
There is substantial scope for tinkering and adjusting the above methods and introducing/adjusting the levels of rest needed subsequent to manifesting a power.
Furthermore, I am sure there are plenty of other ways to address the problems stated. Feel free to contribute ideas and suggestions!
There are even several options for mitigating the "nova" potential of Psionic characters and these can be mixed and matched for the desired effect. I am including some ideas below:
1) Balance the powers in such a way that you expect them to be used in the "nova manner". This would mean making psionic powers weaker than spells of equivalent level (especially at higher levels), which could be done during the conversion of Psionics, just like spells were depowered, but to a greater extent.
2) Require some sort of check for manifesting powers. This could be a manifester level check or Psicraft skill check, but judging from the direction that Pathfinder is taking, probably the former. The DCs could be arranged in such a way as to make higher level powers risk failure (or reduced effect if you designed that in too).
3) Decrease the relative desirability of higher level powers vis-a-vis lower level ones. There are many options on how to do this (apart from making the powers themselves weaker), ranging from fatigue penalties for manifesting highest level powers, through requiring sacrifice of health to manifest the top tier powers, all the way to restrictions on how often highest level powers can be manifested (e.g. only manifest top tier powers once per X [e.g. 2, 3, 4,...] rounds).
1. The nova seems to be the minority. I dont think the rest of us should suffer because they want to be inefficient. If a player want to nova let him deal with the consequences when he is left useless for the rest of the day.
2. The idea of potentially losing a spell has been suggested in many house rules for casters. It did not go over well, and I am sure having a psion, which is already weaker than a caster lose powers while a caster does not wont work. Casting defensively is one thing, but rolling the dice every time will leave a lot of books in the warehouse.
3. See number 2
I think specific Nova's need to be mentioned instead of just the word nova also. There is the "I nova'd to win the battle", the other nova type is "I always have to use as many PP as possible I can even though the battle is well in hand and I could save PP by shooting my crossbow".
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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One thing that would help would be to change the rule about max PP spent on any power = manifester level. Instead, it should be max PP spent PER ROUND = manifester level. That fixes all the shenanigans you can do with schism+quicken power+temporal acceleration+augments to get 5 powers out in a round. Get rid of schism entirely; make temporal acceleration a 9th level ability like time stop.
Not sure if that or the fact they can not use them in an AP is the bigger issue. Nova is not a big an issue as "we can't print that it eats up to many pages"
sorry for the threadjack but your looking at the wrong issue first.
Well, Paizo has stated that nova is the primary issue (page 13 of the other Psionic thread). Anyway, I really, really don't want to derail this thread into discussing other issues, though I should state that for me personally the inclusion or non-inclusion of psionics in adventure paths, adventures and so on is a complete non-issue, since I run my own campaigns and adventures. Anyway, that is a topic for another thread - "nova" potential is at the very least on of the main issues Paizo has (according to Paizo staff postings) with the power point system.
Edit: I would also say it's not just the nova but the fact ya can use every point ya had to cast the same "spell" over and over while even the sorc is limited to 6. Or he could cast say his 7th level "spell' and nothing else all day till he is out of points. This is an issue when every one else is limited to a set numberWhat you describe essentially is the "nova" issue!
I think we should work in issues that might happen in a game, instead of theoretical issues. He can cast the 7th level power, but he will be out of power points too quickly.
At level 13 you will have 173 pp assuming you have an 18 int
You can cast your highest level pour 13 times and have 4 pp left over.
13 is now the magic number
Most fights according to my groups, and what I see online last 3-5 rounds so we can say rounds is average.
4 rounds x 13 = 52pp per fight
At that rate if you fight 4 times per day you will need 208 pp. The easy answer is use restraint.
4 rounds with 4 fights = 16 rounds
173pp/16 rounds=10.8 pp per round meaning most of the time you can drop a 5th level power.
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A 13th level sorcerer can cast
4 x 6th level spells = 24 levels worth of spells
6 x 5th level spells = 30 levels worth of spells
7 x 4th level spells = 16 levels worth of spells(there are only 16 rounds per day)
24+30+16=70 levels worth of spells
This averages out to a spell level of 4.4 which is 2 level lower than the sorcerers max spells, just like the 5th level power is two levels lower than the psion's max power level assuming the psion does not go nova.
Another question is what 7th level powers are the psion going to use all the time?
Now someone will say even if he runs out in 13 rounds that means he only has to be useless for 3 rounds in that last fight, which is a good point.
Counterpoint: I have never been in a game where the caster/psion did not use powers outside of combat so in actual gameplay all those pp wont be available for combat. That means what the numbers I threw out were a best case scenario for a nova'ing psion.
1. weaking is not the right way to do this, they should be on par not weaker.
2 and 3 are punishing casters for being a caster. And adds fiddly bits to an already fiddly class. It would also up the page count even more for reprinting
So far I am not seeing anything so far that fixes the issue better then slots like other casters. As it stands the system was built to allow novaing.
One thing that would help would be to change the rule about max PP spent on any power = manifester level. Instead, it should be max PP spent PER ROUND = manifester level. That fixes all the shenanigans you can do with schism+quicken power+temporal acceleration+augments to get 5 powers out in a round. Get rid of schism entirely; make temporal acceleration a 9th level ability like time stop.
Schism does not work on the same round as temporal acceleration, and I have yet to see a valid power combination that makes it anything more than a theoretical mental exercise.
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psionic powers don't scale unless more power points are spent. which just encourages higher level powers, as you cannot spend more than your manifester level. a 4th level power is a better use of 7 pp than an augmented 1st level power. making the powers scale without augmentation could fix this. (maybe with a cap) but then, you end up with a JRPG mage. JRPG healers while they wear thier robes, or dresses whilst holding a staff 1handed could if appropriately leveled fully heal or revive the dying fighter. 20+ times per combat. and rest in a portable inn. (A.K.A. tent) of which you can have nearly 100 in a pocket. these portable inns cost more than early game inns but are always cheaper than the last disc motels. i like the idea of healers being able to heal spam. (not neccessarily the spell heal) and heal a reasonable chunk. the healing spells should have scaled like damage spells. healing is currently worthless. unless you can cast 6th level spells.
1. weaking is not the right way to do this, they should be on par not weaker.
2 and 3 are punishing casters for being a caster. And adds fiddly bits to an already fiddly class. It would also up the page count even more for reprinting
So far I am not seeing anything so far that fixes the issue better then slots like other casters. As it stands the system was built to allow novaing.
Give me a nova scenario using actual powers that does not eventually do more harm than good to the player, or involve a DM that not follow the standard(design assumed) number of encounters.
As a designer all they can do is account for a certain style of play. You can't account for everyone's. That is one reason why smite is giving many DM's headaches now.
I dont mind a limit of pp per round, since I would not nova, but I would want a perk to replace the limitation. I am not asking you to think of something, but if it were implemented a counter-offer should be put out.
wraithstrike your over looking the issue
13th level sorcerer has a grant total of 34 spells max he can cast and is limited how many of what level
so
6=1st
6=2nd
6=3rd
6=4th
6=5th
4=6th
13th level psion has 147 pp ya have 7th level ablitys also
so that could be bare bones here
147 fist level powers
49 2nd level powers
29 3rd level powers
21 4th level powers
16 5th level powers
13 6th level powers
11 7th level powers
now sure ya will prob spend more then bare bones but the issue is ya could spend them however ya like, that is one of the key balance issues
psionic powers don't scale unless more power points are spent. which just encourages higher level powers, as you cannot spend more than your manifester level. a 4th level power is a better use of 7 pp than an augmented 1st level power. making the powers scale without augmentation could fix this. (maybe with a cap) but then, you end up with a JRPG mage. JRPG healers while they wear thier robes, or dresses whilst holding a staff 1handed could if appropriately leveled fully heal or revive the dying fighter. 20+ times per combat. and rest in a portable inn. (A.K.A. tent) of which you can have nearly 100 in a pocket. these portable inns cost more than early game inns but are always cheaper than the last disc motels. i like the idea of healers being able to heal spam. (not neccessarily the spell heal) and heal a reasonable chunk. the healing spells should have scaled like damage spells. healing is currently worthless. unless you can cast 6th level spells.
???
wraithstrike your over looking the issue
13th level sorcerer has a grant total of 34 spells max he can cast and is limited how many of what level
so
6=1st
6=2nd
6=3rd
6=4th
6=5th
4=6th13th level psion has 147 pp ya have 7th level ablitys also
so that could be bare bones here
147 fist level powers
49 2nd level powers
29 3rd level powers
21 4th level powers
16 5th level powers
13 6th level powers
11 7th level powersnow sure ya will prob spend more then bare bones but the issue is ya could spend them however ya like, that is one of the key balance issues
Being able to potentially do more with less is the designers way of making up for having less versatility than a caster. The casters get more spells, their spells automatically get better, and they can stack metamagic, and until DSP gets their product out psions have to specialize which just leads to more powers that can never be obtained unless a feat is spent to get around it.
I definitely think the casters still have the upper hand.
Thats not the point(even if I do agree the psions "powers" selection needs work)
the versility is the issue , and makes novaing built in. It just does not play well with core. makes a fine system on it's on however but it's way outside core guidelines and assumptions and that is the main issue
There are even several options for mitigating the "nova" potential of Psionic characters and these can be mixed and matched for the desired effect. I am including some ideas below:
1) Balance the powers in such a way that you expect them to be used in the "nova manner". This would mean making psionic powers weaker than spells of equivalent level (especially at higher levels), which could be done during the conversion of Psionics, just like spells were depowered, but to a greater extent.
2) Require some sort of check for manifesting powers. This could be a manifester level check or Psicraft skill check, but judging from the direction that Pathfinder is taking, probably the former. The DCs could be arranged in such a way as to make higher level powers risk failure (or reduced effect if you designed that in too).
3) Decrease the relative desirability of higher level powers vis-a-vis lower level ones. There are many options on how to do this (apart from making the powers themselves weaker), ranging from fatigue penalties for manifesting highest level powers, through requiring sacrifice of health to manifest the top tier powers, all the way to restrictions on how often highest level powers can be manifested (e.g. only manifest top tier powers once per X [e.g. 2, 3, 4,...] rounds).
1. The nova seems to be the minority. I dont think the rest of us should suffer because they want to be inefficient. If a player want to nova let him deal with the consequences when he is left useless for the rest of the day.
As far as I understand it, what you are essentially saying here is that "nova" is not really a problem and a Psionic character who does "go nova" will suffer the consequences. Your assumption is true in my playstyle. For instance, the player characters in one of my campaigns have a goal of stopping an evil cult from casting a powerful ritual. The cult is rather powerful, so a direct attack would probably result in failure on the part of the PCs. As such, they are instead trying to prevent the cult from collecting the necessary rare components for the ritual. If that fails, as seems likely, the PCs are planning an attack during the ritual to disrupt its casting. Anyway, the ritual can only be cast during an eclipse. The eclipse is some months away, so the PCs have plenty of time to get there. Even in such a non-rushed situation, however, if during the intervening adventures, however, the party rest every 10 minutes because the Psionic character blows through his power points so quickly, their failure would be inevitable and they know this. This is just an example - basically the point is that even in non-rushed situations the world is dynamic and evil plans progress unhindered if PCs take a month to clear one dungeon...
The point is, however, that not everybody plays the way I do or you seem to. Some DMs have a static dungeon and a world that doesn't when PCs don't act, so the PCs can rest after every combat. This is the playstyle where the "nova problem" makes itself the most apparent. It is not your place or mine to judge the playstyle - it is perfectly valid and probably not altogether uncommon to play the game in that manner. Hence, the need to address the "nova problem" is there despite the fact that it is rarely relevant in my own campaigns.
One thing that would help would be to change the rule about max PP spent on any power = manifester level. Instead, it should be max PP spent PER ROUND = manifester level. That fixes all the shenanigans you can do with schism+quicken power+temporal acceleration+augments to get 5 powers out in a round. Get rid of schism entirely; make temporal acceleration a 9th level ability like time stop.
Sure, that sounds like a good rule to prevent the abuse of the system.
This actually gives me another idea. Perhaps the Psionic character could be required to 'charge up' to cast the higher level powers. For example, we could say that he can only charge up 1/2 his manifester level in power points per round (up to a 1/2 his manifester level pre-charged), but can save them up for later rounds. So a 10th level Psion, for example, could cast a 5th level spell in the first round of combat (the presumption being that he is 'charged' pre-combat), which would spend 9 power points. He would, therefore, carry over 1 power point to the next round, where he would have 6 power points to play with (1/2 his level = 5 per round + one carried over from the previous round). He could, for example, decide to spend 3 power points on a second level power and save 3 to add to his 5 power points for the third round... and this would continue for the rest of the combat.
The above 1/2 level rule would likely be too severe and it could be a different (probably higher and perhaps rounded up) fraction of level, but it is useful to illustrate the principle.
Thats not the point(even if I do agree the psions "powers" selection needs work)
the versility is the issue , and makes novaing built in. It just does not play well with core. makes a fine system on it's on however but it's way outside core guidelines and assumptions and that is the main issue
So you think the psions should be more powerful closer to spellcasters, but less versatile?
The point is, however, that not everybody plays the way I do or you seem to. Some DMs have a static dungeon and a world that doesn't when PCs don't act, so the PCs can rest after every combat. This is the playstyle where the "nova problem" makes itself the most apparent. It is not your place or mine to judge the playstyle - it is perfectly valid and probably not altogether uncommon to play the game in that manner. Hence, the need to address the "nova problem" is there despite the fact that it is rarely relevant in my own campaigns.
But a caster could do the same thing if the world moves at the PC's speed. I could nuke(not necessarily evocation spells) every encounter by spamming SoD's as an example or using the feats let you use metamagic feats at a reduced cost to destroy encounters then rest. I could just be that player that uses spells all the time even when its not needed. Whether you burn power points or spells it still leads to the 15 minute workday.
I think my disconnect is I don't see how wasting power points is an issue, while running though spells is not. You might run through your power points a little faster but that does not meaning it is more of an issue. The way I see it either both are an issue, and should have stop measures built into the rules*, or neither is an issue.
To summarize why is it ok to burn through your spells, but not through your power points?
*Limit of combined spells levels/power points spent per(round or combat)
I have more to say I just want to say it correctly. I will be back.
One thing that would help would be to change the rule about max PP spent on any power = manifester level. Instead, it should be max PP spent PER ROUND = manifester level. That fixes all the shenanigans you can do with schism+quicken power+temporal acceleration+augments to get 5 powers out in a round. Get rid of schism entirely; make temporal acceleration a 9th level ability like time stop.Sure, that sounds like a good rule to prevent the abuse of the system.
This actually gives me another idea. Perhaps the Psionic character could be required to 'charge up' to cast the higher level powers. For example, we could say that he can only charge up 1/2 his manifester level in power points per round (up to a 1/2 his manifester level pre-charged), but can save them up for later rounds. So a 10th level Psion, for example, could cast a 5th level spell in the first round of combat (the presumption being that he is 'charged' pre-combat), which would spend 9 power points. He would, therefore, carry over 1 power point to the next round, where he would have 6 power points to play with (1/2 his level = 5 per round + one carried over from the previous round). He could, for example, decide to spend 3 power points on a second level power and save 3 to add to his 5 power points for the third round... and this would continue for the rest of the combat.
The above 1/2 level rule would likely be too severe and it could be a different (probably higher and perhaps rounded up) fraction of level, but it is useful to illustrate the principle.
I just think Temporal Accleration should be a higher level power, or make it give a no save status affect like the Celerity line of spells do.
I however dont think it fair for casters to cast the highest spell available, and quicken another, while a psion is weighed down with more restrictions. If that is the case the psion's power's should be made more powerful since he is more restricted in how it can use them.
Edit: Schism probably should be done away with.
This thread isn't going anywhere until you clearly identify the problem you want to fix. Suggesting fix for a problem that may or may not exist and may or may not take one of several different forms is fruitless.
I am assuming he wants the system to work with DM's that have players that burn through powers quickly, and then expect to be able to rest.
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makes me want to create a new consumable magic item
Tent of rest.
a tent of rest when unfolded has enough space for 10 medium creatures. a tent of rest allows all the nessessary sleep and preparation as well as supplying food, you recover as if you had rested with the exception that all hit point damage, ability score damage (abilituy drain too) and harmful conditions are cured. including levels lost by resseruection. or curses and geass spells for that matter (or anything harmful) is fully healed as if it never happened (including death). all the nessacary preperations are made, regardless of the previous day, dialy abilities from the last 8 hours do not count against refreshing them (such as spell preparation or psionic meditation) xp gain is still gained, and there is no fatigue or exhaustion from a tent of rest. when the zipper is shut in a tent of resting, the outside world cannot see the tent (even with true seeing) a tent of rest has 5 charges
cost 8,000 gold pieces
crafting; craft wondrous item, creator must have 5 ranks in craft (tentmaking) and profession (woodsman) caster level 4. 4000 gp to craft.
I am assuming he wants the system to work with DM's that have players that burn through powers quickly, and then expect to be able to rest.And that's the problem. Everyone is assuming different premises through these many threads and it means lots of useless discussion at cross purposes.
I agree, even what a nova is has been given different definitions which is why I defined two different ways nova has been used at the beginning. When the OP respsonded he did mention the nova of the wasted power points. Both novas will need different rule implemented to make them nigh impossible. I personally feel like we are holding the players hand by making them be efficient, but some people want that.
I agree, even what a nova is has been given different definitions which is why I defined two different ways nova has been used at the beginning. When the OP respsonded he did mention the nova of the wasted power points. Both novas will need different rule implemented to make them nigh impossible. I personally feel like we are holding the players hand by making them be efficient, but some people want that.Well, psions are meant to address the issues of the sorcerer, and one of the issues with the sorcerer is that it's not exactly clear how you're supposed to play them. It's not obvious that you're not supposed to blow your load as a psion, just like it's not obvious that a themed sorcerer spell list with many similar overlapping spells is a short trip to Failtown.
Even if blowing all your points too quickly doesn't give the psion an advantage, it is still a design problem because it gives the psion a large disadvantage of the "Go play Xbox until your character gets a chance to rest" variety.
The game rules dont not say dont do it, but if I spend all my pp once I would not do it again. The reason why I dont see it as strictly a design issue is that casters do the same thing, not necessarily using all their spells, but using all the ones that can make a difference gives the same affect.
I do see how changes could be made to make it harder to nova but I guess the question now is how much responsibility do we put on the player to preserve PP and much do we put on the designers, and how do we limit the number of PP.
From the post I have been seeing someone that is efficient can cast more powers than a sorcerer, but someone that is not good at being efficient will use their pp too quickly. You have to bring the minimum number of powers up cast per day up and the maximum number of powers down I guess.
The point is, however, that not everybody plays the way I do or you seem to. Some DMs have a static dungeon and a world that doesn't when PCs don't act, so the PCs can rest after every combat. This is the playstyle where the "nova problem" makes itself the most apparent. It is not your place or mine to judge the playstyle - it is perfectly valid and probably not altogether uncommon to play the game in that manner. Hence, the need to address the "nova problem" is there despite the fact that it is rarely relevant in my own campaigns.But a caster could do the same thing if the world moves at the PC's speed. I could nuke(not necessarily evocation spells) every encounter by spamming SoD's as an example or using the feats let you use metamagic feats at a reduced cost to destroy encounters then rest. I could just be that player that uses spells all the time even when its not needed. Whether you burn power points or spells it still leads to the 15 minute workday.
I think my disconnect is I don't see how wasting power points is an issue, while running though spells is not. You might run through your power points a little faster but that does not meaning it is more of an issue. The way I see it either both are an issue, and should have stop measures built into the rules*, or neither is an issue.
To summarize why is it ok to burn through your spells, but not through your power points?
You are correct to identify that arcane casters and divine casters also suffer from this issue and there are actually quite a lot of people who do have a problem with that. Indeed, this greatly informed the design of the 4th edition, where classes were homogenized in terms of resource management to avoid spellcasters doing what you describe. That said, the issue is even more pronounced with Psionic characters than with spellcasters, simply because Psionic characters can burn through all their points even faster and be too powerful relative to the rest of the party while doing so, as they can be manifesting their highest level powers at all times (whereas slot-based casters decline in power as their highest level spells are expended, but still have things to do with lower level spells). Hence, if casters can "go nova", Psionic characters can "go mega-nova".
Dynamic campaign worlds provide real consequences for those who expend their power in a short time on a regular basis and have to rest immediately thereafter. With static campaign worlds, however, where things don't happen until the PCs go into the next room, this becomes an issue, as rest is feasible after every combat if necessary and the spellcasters, therefore, overshadow non-spellcasters, whereas Psionic characters overshadow even spellcasters.
So it's not that spellcasters cannot "go nova", it's that Psionic characters "go nova" to an even greater extent.
Because my campaign worlds tend to be dynamic, this only occassionally becomes a problem. However, people do play in static campaign worlds (or somewhere in between, but leaning towards static) and for them it is a problem. Paizo definitely seems to think that it is a problem. Now, I don't want to go to a Vancian system for Psionics, so I think it would be productive to provide solutions for the power point system, while still maintaining its granularity and flexibility in Pathfinder RPG Psionics.
I have more to say I just want to say it correctly. I will be back.
Well, I am looking forward to what you have to say. :)
I agree, even what a nova is has been given different definitions which is why I defined two different ways nova has been used at the beginning. When the OP respsonded he did mention the nova of the wasted power points. Both novas will need different rule implemented to make them nigh impossible. I personally feel like we are holding the players hand by making them be efficient, but some people want that.Well, psions are meant to address the issues of the sorcerer, and one of the issues with the sorcerer is that it's not exactly clear how you're supposed to play them. It's not obvious that you're not supposed to blow your load as a psion, just like it's not obvious that a themed sorcerer spell list with many similar overlapping spells is a short trip to Failtown.
Even if blowing all your points too quickly doesn't give the psion an advantage, it is still a design problem because it gives the psion a large disadvantage of the "Go play Xbox until your character gets a chance to rest" variety.
The game rules dont not say dont do it, but if I spend all my pp once I would not do it again. The reason why I dont see it as strictly a design issue is that casters do the same thing, not necessarily using all their spells, but using all the ones that can make a difference gives the same affect.
I do see how changes could be made to make it harder to nova but I guess the question now is how much responsibility do we put on the player to preserve PP and much do we put on the designers, and how do we limit the number of PP.
In dynamic campaign worlds, the player will likely learn to conserve power points pretty quickly, though I suppose some people never learn. There is only so much 'idiot-proofing' one can do to the game at the design stage to protect the player from himself.
In static campaign worlds, however, the player has no incentive to learn to moderate power point expenditure, because the strategy of blowing through them and resting afterwards will work very well and let him overshadow the rest of the party. It is this that I think Paizo wants to solve or at least mitigate.
Thats not the point(even if I do agree the psions "powers" selection needs work)
the versility is the issue , and makes novaing built in. It just does not play well with core. makes a fine system on it's on however but it's way outside core guidelines and assumptions and that is the main issue
The entire 3E/3.5E system of balance is based on the assumption that you can off-set endurance against flexibility and against immediate power. Classes in 3E/3.5E are balanced on that premise. There might still be egregious cases of one of these aspects of balance that need to be mitigated, true, but the 3E/3.5E system of balance includes different resource management systems, including at will powers of non-casters and the slot-based spells of casters. The claim that another resource management system cannot be effectively integrated therefore seems rather dubious. Yes, the system might need some massaging to get it to fit, but it is fundamentally doable.
I think my concern is that due to the inability to conserve pp some ridiculous limit may be put on them that makes psions not so attractive, which could be making me very change resistance, probably more than I should be.
I calculated the average spell level of sorcerers at a given level. Here are the results, though I cannot arrange them into a neat table, as formatting on these boards eludes me:
Sorcerer Level: Mean Spell Level
Level 1: 1.0000
Level 2: 1.0000
Level 3: 1.0000
Level 4: 1.3333
Level 5: 1.4000
Level 6: 1.7857
Level 7: 1.8750
Level 8: 2.2500
Level 9: 2.3636
Level 10: 2.7308
Level 11: 2.8571
Level 12: 3.2188
Level 13: 3.3529
Level 14: 3.7105
Level 15: 3.8500
Level 16: 4.2045
Level 17: 4.3478
Level 18: 4.7000
Level 19: 4.8462
Level 20: 5.0000
As the above table indicates, if we were to ensure that the average level of powers cast by the Psion were to be the same as the average level of spells cast by the Sorcerer, my idea of having Psionic characters only 1/2 manifester level power points per round would actually work nearly perfectly.
Things are not so simple, of course, since the Sorcerer has a larger power point equivalent than the Psion. For example, at 20th level, the Sorcerer has an equivalent of 486 power points, whereas the Psion only has 343 power points. Furthermore, Sorcerer spells scale automatically, whereas Psionic characters have to expend power points to scale them.
As such, I would guestimate the point of balance to be maximum number of power points channelable per round to be at approximately 3/4 of manifester level (rounding up), with the possibility of saving up to a maximum 1/4 of manifester level in power points for subsequent rounds (erm, my terminology needs work to make it clearer). Quicken power and similar effects could be dealt with later (they might be excluded from what counts per round - after all arcane casters can also use Quicken) - first the base system must work. This would give us the following progression:
Manifester Level: Maximum Power Points per Round: Power Points Saveable for Later
Level 1: 1: 0
Level 2: 2: 0
Level 3: 3: 0
Level 4: 3: 1
Level 5: 4: 1
Level 6: 5: 1
Level 7: 6: 1
Level 8: 6: 2
Level 9: 7: 2
Level 10: 8: 2
Level 11: 9: 2
Level 12: 9: 3
Level 13: 10: 3
Level 14: 11: 3
Level 15: 12: 3
Level 16: 12: 4
Level 17: 13: 4
Level 18: 14: 4
Level 19: 15: 4
Level 20: 15: 5
Psionic characters could be compensated for these restrictions. Perhaps they could chose one 1st level powerat level 4, another 1st level power at level 8, a 2nd level power at level 12, another 2nd level power at level 16 and a 3rd level power at level 20 to be usable at will. These at will powers would be useable without the need for power point expenditure, but not augmentable when used in at will mode or, if augmentable, the augmentation would have to be paid for normally. If some powers are outright broken in at will mode, they would be excluded - I am not about to go through the list to determine that now for reasons of time.
The levels where these at will powers were chosen the be the same as the levels when the power points per round progression diverges from that in 3.5E. The level of the powers was chosen in accordance with how far the progression diverges from the 3.5E progression (1 or 2 points = 1st level power; 3 or 4 points = 2nd level power; 5 points = 3rd level power).
Like Wizards and Clerics, Psionic characters in Pathfinder RPG would probably also receive various class abilities according to their discipline.
I think my concern is that due to the inability to conserve pp some ridiculous limit may be put on them that makes psions not so attractive, which could be making me very change resistance, probably more than I should be.
Well, I see where you are coming from, but alas, the design climate being what it is in the wake of 4E, we have to accept some idiot-proofing and even if not for the sake of idiot-proofing, we have to accept that some playstyles rely on static worlds and the game has to accomodate them too, if we want to keep the power point system...
Did you base that on 4 encounter per day or did you base it on the assumption that both classes have expended all their power for the day?
When I did my chart, which I came up with while I was writing I assumed four encounters and out.*
*Yes I know not every day is a 4 and out date, but that is what the game is balanced around. If we are going to use a different standard we need to decide on what the new standard is. I dont think it should be all spells/powers however because that never happens. A better model might be all useful spells, which I think will change as the character goes up in level. As an example I dont think a 20 level caster will try to keep going if he is down to 3rd level spells.
Did you base that on 4 encounter per day or did you base it on the assumption that both classes have expended all their power for the day?
The initial Sorcerer average spell level chart is based on the assumption that all spells are expended. It is merely the initial basis for comparison, however, and it would be too harsh to hold a Psion to that, which I reflected in my guestimate of how I would construct the power points per round chart.
When I did my chart, which I came up with while I was writing I assumed four encounters and out.*
*Yes I know not every day is a 4 and out date, but that is what the game is balanced around.
Yes, I do believe that was the original balance basis for the design of 3.5E. I am not sure that was the design basis for Pathfinder RPG - they might have changed some design assumptions for balance. In any case, as you point out, the 4 encounters per day is not necessarily the case. Still, assumptions are necessary - I guess I am just looking at the issue from another angle.
If we are going to use a different standard we need to decide on what the new standard is. I dont think it should be all spells/powers however because that never happens. A better model might be all useful spells, which I think will change as the character goes up in level. As an example I dont think a 20 level caster will try to keep going if he is down to 3rd level spells.
You know, this is a good idea. I will remake the chart to take into account that lowest level spells are not likely to be used at high levels. The question is where to make the cut-off point. I think the most appropriate approach would be to take 3.5E design assumptions (we don't have them for Pathfinder RPG) as to when a challenge becomes insignificant or too powerful. This can be based on the CR chart in the DMG - it gives us a spread of 15 CRs for a given level. That would suggest that only the top 6-8 levels of spells should count (depending on how we count it) - I would say only the top 6 levels count, since I was already generous by taking the whole range, rather than looking at the bottom part of the range below the character level only, which would be another possible approach to take.
Off I go to remake the chart on the basis of 3.5E assumptions of when a CR becomes meaningless...
Here is the revised chart.
Sorcerer Level: Mean of Useful Spell Levels for Sorcerer Only (Top 6 Levels – Chosen on the Basis of the Spread of Meaningful Challenge Ratings – 5 Levels of Non-Meaningful Ones per Level Equates to 3 Non-Useful Spell Levels at Level 20)
Level 1: 1.0000
Level 2: 1.0000
Level 3: 1.0000
Level 4: 1.3333
Level 5: 1.4000
Level 6: 1.7857
Level 7: 1.8750
Level 8: 2.2500
Level 9: 2.3636
Level 10: 2.7308
Level 10: 2.8571
Level 10: 3.2188
Level 10: 3.3529
Level 10: 4.2188
Level 10: 4.3529
Level 10: 5.2188
Level 10: 5.3529
Level 10: 6.2188
Level 10: 6.3529
Level 10: 6.5000
Sorcerer ‘useful’ power point equivalent at level 20: 432
Psion power points at level 20: 343
This would bring the Sorcerer (at higher levels where it matters) to almost equivalent of the 3/4 manifester level progression for power points expendable per level I outlined above. That makes it seem pretty reasonable actually, rather than mere guesstimate.
Even if only the 'useful' spells are counted, the Sorcerer still has about 25% more spells in terms of 'power point equivalence' than the total number of power points that Psion possesses and can scale spells for free. The Psion, however, has supreme flexibility, which I think does make up for that. At the first sight at least, it seems reasonably balanced to me with the 3/4 per manifester level progression for per round power point expenditure of Psionic characters.
Thinking about the 'carry-over' mechanic of power points in the system above, it is probably too clunky or confusing for the current simplification-concerned climate. Perhaps it may be better to simply fix the per round point expenditure at 3/4 manifester level as outlined in the table, and allow psionic characters to 'overchannel' by up to the number of points in the second column, but such overchanneling would expend the psionic focus. This would effectively make the highest tier powers virtually "per encounter", but not in all situations (sometimes taking the time to regain focus might be worth it even in combat).
As I said, Psionic characters would need to be comensated for these restrictions through other means (such as the at-will power system I described) and would probably also gain abilities based on their discipline, like Wizards gain based on school and Sorcerers based on bloodline.
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let the n00bs nova. maybe being useless for a few fights will teach them. my dm literally takes everyone's dump stat and slaps them with it. and through in game means too. he heavily rewards avian non combat familiars. especially the smaller less conspicuous kind with high spot bonuses such as falcons. so i'm sure there are similar dms who slap the psion with the fact they quickly burned thier power points and make them sit out a few fights unless they have a ranged weapon. where they could just fire crossbow bolts. wizards without spells had to do the same thing. will of great escape games has taught me to invest in secondary forms of combat. he also taught me that armor class becomes useless after 7th level. (boni to hit scale faster than boni to ac levels 4-6, a lot of things will hit, after 6th everything will always hit. the only level where armor class makes a difference is 1st. the easy way to tell is the moment you face your first large or larger foe. as soon as this happens, all ac goes down the toilet. for monks this already happened at 1st level. by the time the fighter gets his first suit of full plate, he should expect to be whacked really hard from a creature with amzing accuracy. monster ac has no such issues however. as they always have humoungous defenses.)
let the n00bs nova.maybe being useless for a few fights will teach them.
I would think so too, but since this seems to be an ongoing problem in some groups obviously someone is not learning, and the party is left to do 4-man encounters with 3 people. It may not be fair to hold a player's hand after he keeps making the same mistake, but others may feel its not fair to make the party suffer because of tactics that won't change. So here we are trying to keep psionics viable as is, but still trying to make sure some people don't themselves in the food.
It's starting to remind me of another game that I shall not name.
I dont mind making the game a little easier for some, I just don't want it to change to much. You can't have the versatility the game brings and have it be too easy to not make mistakes.
When I wake up I will look over Roman's idea to see if the I think the basic premise is correct. I dont think I am awake enough to do any real thinking now.
Here is the revised chart.
Sorcerer Level: Mean of Useful Spell Levels for Sorcerer Only (Top 6 Levels – Chosen on the Basis of the Spread of Meaningful Challenge Ratings – 5 Levels of Non-Meaningful Ones per Level Equates to 3 Non-Useful Spell Levels at Level 20)
Level 1: 1.0000
Level 2: 1.0000
Level 3: 1.0000
Level 4: 1.3333
Level 5: 1.4000
Level 6: 1.7857
Level 7: 1.8750
Level 8: 2.2500
Level 9: 2.3636
Level 10: 2.7308
Level 10: 2.8571
Level 10: 3.2188
Level 10: 3.3529
Level 10: 4.2188
Level 10: 4.3529
Level 10: 5.2188
Level 10: 5.3529
Level 10: 6.2188
Level 10: 6.3529
Level 10: 6.5000Sorcerer ‘useful’ power point equivalent at level 20: 432
Psion power points at level 20: 343
This would bring the Sorcerer (at higher levels where it matters) to almost equivalent of the 3/4 manifester level progression for power points expendable per level I outlined above. That makes it seem pretty reasonable actually, rather than mere guesstimate.
Even if only the 'useful' spells are counted, the Sorcerer still has about 25% more spells in terms of 'power point equivalence' than the total number of power points that Psion possesses and can scale spells for free. The Psion, however, has supreme flexibility, which I think does make up for that. At the first sight at least, it seems reasonably balanced to me with the 3/4 per manifester level progression for per round power point expenditure of Psionic characters.
Thinking about the 'carry-over' mechanic of power points in the system above, it is probably too clunky or confusing for the current simplification-concerned climate. Perhaps it may be better to simply fix the per round point expenditure at 3/4 manifester level as outlined in the table, and allow psionic characters to 'overchannel' by up to the number of points in the second column, but such overchanneling would expend the psionic focus. This would effectively make the highest tier powers virtually "per encounter", but not in all situations (sometimes taking the time to...
I think if we are going to limit the psion so they he can only use his highest level power by overchanneling: correct me if I misunderstood, then it should be easier to regain the psionic focus assuming the psionic focus is kept at all.
Maybe the overchannel could be a class ability and be limited to X/encounter instead of by using the psionic focus. That way the psion does not have to take damage just to use its own powers, but those that are inefficient wont burn through the pp too fast. Of course some won't agree with new limitation so that could be a variant idea for those that need it, while others would not be held back by it.
Here is the revised chart.
Sorcerer Level: Mean of Useful Spell Levels for Sorcerer Only (Top 6 Levels – Chosen on the Basis of the Spread of Meaningful Challenge Ratings – 5 Levels of Non-Meaningful Ones per Level Equates to 3 Non-Useful Spell Levels at Level 20)
Level 1: 1.0000
Level 2: 1.0000
Level 3: 1.0000
Level 4: 1.3333
Level 5: 1.4000
Level 6: 1.7857
Level 7: 1.8750
Level 8: 2.2500
Level 9: 2.3636
Level 10: 2.7308
Level 10: 2.8571
Level 10: 3.2188
Level 10: 3.3529
Level 10: 4.2188
Level 10: 4.3529
Level 10: 5.2188
Level 10: 5.3529
Level 10: 6.2188
Level 10: 6.3529
Level 10: 6.5000Sorcerer ‘useful’ power point equivalent at level 20: 432
Psion power points at level 20: 343
This would bring the Sorcerer (at higher levels where it matters) to almost equivalent of the 3/4 manifester level progression for power points expendable per level I outlined above. That makes it seem pretty reasonable actually, rather than mere guesstimate.
Even if only the 'useful' spells are counted, the Sorcerer still has about 25% more spells in terms of 'power point equivalence' than the total number of power points that Psion possesses and can scale spells for free. The Psion, however, has supreme flexibility, which I think does make up for that. At the first sight at least, it seems reasonably balanced to me with the 3/4 per manifester level progression for per round power point expenditure of Psionic characters.
Thinking about the 'carry-over' mechanic of power points in the system above, it is probably too clunky or confusing for the current simplification-concerned climate. Perhaps it may be better to simply fix the per round point expenditure at 3/4 manifester level as outlined in the table, and allow psionic characters to 'overchannel' by up to the number of points in the second column, but such overchanneling would expend the psionic focus. This would effectively make the highest tier powers virtually "per encounter", but not in all situations (sometimes taking the time to regain focus might be worth it even in combat).
I think if we are going to limit the psion so they he can only use his highest level power by overchanneling: correct me if I misunderstood, then it should be easier to regain the psionic focus assuming the psionic focus is kept at all.
Maybe the overchannel could be a class ability and be limited to X/encounter instead of by using the psionic focus. That way the psion does not have to take damage just to use its own powers, but those that are inefficient wont burn through the pp too fast. Of course some won't agree with new limitation so that could be a variant idea for those that need it, while others would not be held back by it.
I used an unfortunate choice of words by calling the process 'overchannel'. The choice was unfortunate on my part, because there is already a feat called Overchannel. What I meant to say is that expending the Psionic Focus would enable the Psionic character to use more power points per round (up to the full manifester level) - no damage taken - usable as many times and as often as the character wants. The only limitation would be the need to regain the Psionic Focus, which is a full round action. The only reason I used the word 'overchannel' is because the Psionic character is using more power points than normally allowed per round and it seemed like the best term to describe the phenomenon. Maybe a better term (not tying it to the feat) for it would be "Psionic Rush" or "Overfocus" or something like that.
I used an unfortunate choice of words by calling the process 'overchannel'. The choice was unfortunate on my part, because there is already a feat called Overchannel. What I meant to say is that expending the Psionic Focus would enable the Psionic character to use more power points per round (up to the full manifester level) - no damage taken - usable as many times and as often as the character wants. The only limitation would be the need to regain the Psionic Focus, which is a full round action. The only reason I used the word 'overchannel' is because the Psionic character is using more power points than normally allowed per round and it seemed like the best term to describe the phenomenon. Maybe a better term (not tying it to the feat) for it would be "Psionic Rush" or "Overfocus" or something like that.
There is a feat, whose I always forget, that brings the concentration check to regain psionic focus back to a move action. If limits are put in to help the players and they take this feat to get around it let them deal with it. I would not mind this mechanic as a variant rule. If anything similar to it became a real rule I would need more reasons to play a psion, assuming I was not the DM, and the DM refused to let me play under the "old" rules.
For the sake of this discussion we will go with the 3/4 ruling, but how do we keep the psion attractive. Do you think the feat to make regaining psionic focus a move action should be kept, since it makes the new mechanic less effective? IIRC there is also a way to have your crystal hold a focus for you. Should that be kept also?
I used an unfortunate choice of words by calling the process 'overchannel'. The choice was unfortunate on my part, because there is already a feat called Overchannel. What I meant to say is that expending the Psionic Focus would enable the Psionic character to use more power points per round (up to the full manifester level) - no damage taken - usable as many times and as often as the character wants. The only limitation would be the need to regain the Psionic Focus, which is a full round action. The only reason I used the word 'overchannel' is because the Psionic character is using more power points than normally allowed per round and it seemed like the best term to describe the phenomenon. Maybe a better term (not tying it to the feat) for it would be "Psionic Rush" or "Overfocus" or something like that.There is a feat, whose I always forget, that brings the concentration check to regain psionic focus back to a move action. If limits are put in to help the players and they take this feat to get around it let them deal with it. I would not mind this mechanic as a variant rule. If anything similar to it became a real rule I would need more reasons to play a psion, assuming I was not the DM, and the DM refused to let me play under the "old" rules.
For the sake of this discussion we will go with the 3/4 ruling, but how do we keep the psion attractive. Do you think the feat to make regaining psionic focus a move action should be kept, since it makes the new mechanic less effective? IIRC there is also a way to have your crystal hold a focus for you. Should that be kept also?
Good questions about the feat enabling faster regaining of psionic focus and the feat that lets the crystal hold the focus. I am no fan of crystals (due to flavor), but looking at balance alone, I would say enabling the crystal to hold an extra focus with the use of s feat would not be too game breaking. After all, psionic focus is used for many other things as well and manifesting two high level powers per combat (unless the Psionic Focus is regained with a full round action) is not unreasonable.
As to the other feat, enabling a move action to be used to regain Psionic Focus, I am not entirely sure, but I would say that it would probably bypass the purpose of the restriction too much. However, I could foresee a feat making it a standard action to regain Psionic Focus - that would work.
Now onto keeping the Psion more attractive. I agree that the class would need a boost elsewhere to compensate for this rule. After all, the point here is not to depower the Psionic classes, but to 'spread' their power by limiting the extent to which they can "go nova".
Provisionally, I suggested giving Psions the following compensation:
Level 4: 1st level power usable at will
Level 8: 1st level power usable at will
Level 12: 2nd level power usable at will
Level 16: 2nd level power usable at will
Level 20: 3rd level power usable at will
These at will powers would be usable without the need for power point expenditure, but not augmentable when used in the 'at will mode' or, if we made them augmentable, the augmentation would have to be paid for normally. If some powers would be outright broken if they were manifestable at will, they would, of course, have to be excluded.
We could rule that the powers chosen to be usable at will must be ones the Psion already knows and/or they must be from his primary discipline.
The reason I chose those levels to give the extra powers is that they are the levels when Psion in the 3/4 system falls behind the Psion in the full manifester level system in terms of the power points he can expend per round.
I chose the levels of the powers gained on the basis of how many power points per round the Psion is behind the legacy system. The Psion gets a free power of level that he could have cast with the missing power points. Therefore:
1-2 points --> 1st level power gained each time he falls behind
3-4 points --> 2nd level power gained each time he falls behind
5-5 points --> 3rd level power gained each time he falls behind
Well, that, at least, is the logic behind this provisional compensation idea. Making the compensating powers manifestable at will has the advantage of further making protecting the party from the Psionic character blowing through all of his power points, because he will always have at least some Psionic abilities to use. You could think of it as the other side of the coin - restriction on the use of the higher level powers is one side and free manifesting of some weaker powers is the other side.
Of course, on top of the above, the Psion would also get full Pathfinder treatment along the lines of the Wizard and the Sorcerer in the Pathfinder RPG - various abilities depending on his discipline, just like Wizards and Sorcerers get abilities based on their school or bloodline.
Anyway, that is just one idea on how Psionic characters could be compensated and kept interesting for the Psionic Focus rule.
I am going to attempt to use this modified psion in my next two sessions. One as a DMPC, and the other as a villain. I still think that whatever changes are made should make it worthwhile as a DMPC and an NPC. It might be a while before I get back with anything.
Don't forget to compensate the DMPC and the villain by also giving them the at will powers, not just the restrictions.
I usually DM, but I am currently playing an Erudite in one campaign, so I may suggest to the DM to allow me to use these rules too at least for a session or two, just as a form of pre-test. I would also test them in my own campaigns, but unfortunately I am temporarily away from my regular groups, so that would have to wait.
Mind you, while the above system seems workable, there are other methods I can think of that would also function to suppress the "nova effect" (and in each case, just as in the above-system, the Psionic classes would need to be compensated somehow). Even if nothing were to come out of any of these, however, the process of designing such a system or systems within the confines of a power point system and within the general balance logic of 3.5E (even if we don't have the time resources to fine-tune the balance perfectly, simply because we are not paid to do it and have to do other jobs to earn our living, he, he ;) ) shows that the psionic system can be based on power points yet avoid "nova effects" even in static worlds (or at least avoid them to a similar degree as spellcasters avoid them).
Contrary to my initial assumption, fitting the "Quicken Power" feat would actually be pretty seamless into the above system. Quicken Power would simply enable the Psionic character to spend an extra batch of his per round allotments of power points during the round as a swift action on a single power. It would still add 6 power points to the cost of the requisite power as per normal.
This is reasonable, because spellcasters can Quicken spells normally too and there is no reason to give Psionic characters a further hindrance in this area given that their allotment of points per round (and thus per Quickened power) is already lowered by the 3/4 progression.
makes me want to create a new consumable magic item
Tent of rest.
a tent of rest when unfolded has enough space for 10 medium creatures. a tent of rest allows all the nessessary sleep and preparation as well as supplying food, you recover as if you had rested with the exception that all hit point damage, ability score damage (abilituy drain too) and harmful conditions are cured. including levels lost by resseruection. or curses and geass spells for that matter (or anything harmful) is fully healed as if it never happened (including death). all the nessacary preperations are made, regardless of the previous day, dialy abilities from the last 8 hours do not count against refreshing them (such as spell preparation or psionic meditation) xp gain is still gained, and there is no fatigue or exhaustion from a tent of rest. when the zipper is shut in a tent of resting, the outside world cannot see the tent (even with true seeing) a tent of rest has 5 charges
cost 8,000 gold pieces
crafting; craft wondrous item, creator must have 5 ranks in craft (tentmaking) and profession (woodsman) caster level 4. 4000 gp to craft.
awesome, was that inspired by the final fantasy series? peaceful uninterruptable rest and no chance of random encounters? expensive though. 1600 gp a charge. (800 a charge if crafted) make the nova happy psion or the blaster mage buy this. eventually they'll take a reserve feat. out of being fed up with the cost. or they may become more conservative. but i say the reserve feat is better.
I am going to attempt to use this modified psion in my next two sessions. One as a DMPC, and the other as a villain. I still think that whatever changes are made should make it worthwhile as a DMPC and an NPC. It might be a while before I get back with anything.
The true test is to give the psion to a player that routinely runs out of power points and watching to see if he is still effective, but if I dont find a volunteer I can try to burn through the pp as fast as I can to see if the character holds out.
I am going to attempt to use this modified psion in my next two sessions. One as a DMPC, and the other as a villain. I still think that whatever changes are made should make it worthwhile as a DMPC and an NPC. It might be a while before I get back with anything.The true test is to give the psion to a player that routinely runs out of power points and watching to see if he is still effective, but if I dont find a volunteer I can try to burn through the pp as fast as I can to see if the character holds out.
if all else fails, try the magic item above your post. (tent of rest) though it's just a patch. not a fix.