Okay, what the hell is a petanko? I've heard that term in like four threads now.
Okay, what the hell is a petanko? I've heard that term in like four threads now.
it's a female with a petite frame and a proportianately small bustline. several asians can qualify. as can many gymnasts.
it's a female with a petite frame and a proportianately small bustline. several asians can qualify. as can many gymnasts.Okay, what the hell is a petanko? I've heard that term in like four threads now.
Huh, I did not know that. Learn something new every day.
I know the Germans call a woman with a flat chest a BMW: Brett Mit Warzen, or 'board with warts' - not as bad as it sounds since the German for 'nipples' is 'brustwarzen', 'breast warts'. It has nothing to do with overall build, though, just the lack of endowment. So I guess it's not the same thing.
would you consider it minmaxing to build a finesse cleric? a finesse cleric practically deals no damage, can't afford to pump dexterity, has to abuse research rules. (2,000 gold in research fees to learn cat's grace) has to use a smaller damage die, and doesn't have the strength nor the Ac of a "Cleric". she wears a mithral shirt under her ankle length frill heavy, white, lace trimmed robes, wears an espada ropera at her hip, and a jade coin medallion featuring a sun engraving (around her neck) (holy symbol of sarenrae), she stands 5 feet tall and weighs less than 100 pounds (low strength score). frail and easy to push around (low hit points). acrobatic and perceptive (high dexterity, acrobatics, and perception) precise with a light impact (weapon finesse) petite framed and a petanko (based off of dexterity score) diplomatic (high diplomacy). her mother was an nephilim. (the character herself is an aasimaar) would you even recognize this individual character as what she is? or would you deny her existance as an aasimaar priestess of sarenrae? she is a rather unusual and rather suboptimal build that is probably taxed 2,000 gold. (to research cats grace.) but it was a fun build. i'm sure it's a cleric you wouldn't expect. is it?
Except even that character is, in fact, min/maxed.
Min/maxing does not mean making the absolute most powerful character character bar none. A halfling may not be the best of all possible Barbarians, but you can still min/max a halfling Barbarian.
The concept is a personable aasimar priestess who relies on nimbleness rather than brute strength in a fight. Min/max from there. Wisdom and charisma along with the innate wisdom/charisma boost are leveraged in Cleric abilities as well as the diplomatic abilities. The solid dexterity pairs with Weapon Finesse to allow the Cleric to actually hit. It may be worth investing in Improved Initiative, as a better initiative is one of the scant few benefits the dexterity Cleric gains over the strength Cleric. Cat's Grace is not strictly necessary (though picking it up is a form of min/maxing), as it eventually gets replaced by an item, though it can be helpful, and various other buffing spells at large can supplement damage (Divine Favor, Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Power, etc.), as well as bolstering that lagging HP and put up more meaningful defenses (Aid, Bear's Endurance, various buffs).
It's also very much worth considering other classes. After all, the notion priestess can be realized by more classes than just Cleric. Favored Soul allows the priestess to focus more tightly on charisma and dexterity, so long as she isn't too terribly attached to offensive spells that offer a save, as well as offering improvements to a potentially useful deity weapon (hopefully a rapier). Bard (and particularly Divine Bard) fit the notion pretty much to the letter, and the Bard class suits a lighter, more nimble character type considerably better.
And of course, by the strictest definition, the character as presented is very much min/maxed. Min strength and constitution (and probably intelligence) to max wisdom, charisma, and dexterity, and then capitalize on those three.
would you consider it minmaxing to build a finesse cleric? a finesse cleric practically deals no damage, can't afford to pump dexterity, has to abuse research rules. (2,000 gold in research fees to learn cat's grace) has to use a smaller damage die, and doesn't have the strength nor the Ac of a "Cleric". she wears a mithral shirt under her ankle length frill heavy, white, lace trimmed robes, wears an espada ropera at her hip, and a jade coin medallion featuring a sun engraving (around her neck) (holy symbol of sarenrae), she stands 5 feet tall and weighs less than 100 pounds (low strength score). frail and easy to push around (low hit points). acrobatic and perceptive (high dexterity, acrobatics, and perception) precise with a light impact (weapon finesse) petite framed and a petanko (based off of dexterity score) diplomatic (high diplomacy). her mother was an nephilim. (the character herself is an aasimaar) would you even recognize this individual character as what she is? or would you deny her existance as an aasimaar priestess of sarenrae? she is a rather unusual and rather suboptimal build that is probably taxed 2,000 gold. (to research cats grace.) but it was a fun build. i'm sure it's a cleric you wouldn't expect. is it?Except even that character is, in fact, min/maxed.
Min/maxing does not mean making the absolute most powerful character character bar none. A halfling may not be the best of all possible Barbarians, but you can still min/max a halfling Barbarian.
The concept is a personable aasimar priestess who relies on nimbleness rather than brute strength in a fight. Min/max from there. Wisdom and charisma along with the innate wisdom/charisma boost are leveraged in Cleric abilities as well as the diplomatic abilities. The solid dexterity pairs with Weapon Finesse to allow the Cleric to actually hit. It may be worth investing in Improved Initiative, as a better initiative is one of the scant few benefits the dexterity Cleric gains over the strength Cleric. ...
i guess the character screams dawnflower dervish. it wouldn't be effective otherwise. however, what weapon would you use as the base stats for an Espada Ropera, (i'm either guessing shortsword or rapier, leaning on the former.) it also gains reflex saves that scream, "Dervish". she probably wishes she had evasion.
I have noticed during my time on the interwebs that min/max and optimization have different definitions depending on who you talk too. As someone may have mentioned there is also theoretical optimization. This is when someone tries to make the most the ridiculously broken character they can most of the time. The important thing to remember is that such characters are mental exercises, and are not intended to be used in a real game.
To me min/maxing is focusing your character in only one area. As an example I once had a fellow player who could do 1d12+(insert ridiculous number) against demons, but he only had an AC of 21 as a melee type at 10th or 11th level.
[A thing] is about making your character able to do what you envision it doing. This can be a tricky crone, or a swift and agile priest, or a dim berserker who sees life as a nail and himself as a hammer. This is a natural part of any RPG, especially rules-heavy games like D&D. Nobody likes playing a character who they envisioned could do something, and the rules say otherwise. So the tricky crone is tricky, the agile priest is agile, and the dim berserker hits people.
[The other thing] is about finding all the loopholes and soft spots in the game rules to make the most ruthlessly dominating character, in order to trivialize challenges, ruin plots, and steal the spotlight. Every rules-heavy game has lots of weaknesses, and this is all about exploiting them to gain the greatest advantage.
[A thing] and [the other thing] have been called both min/maxing and character optimization. They are separate things but the labels fit both interchangeably.
It also has alot to do with the group you play with. My old groups style of play was more relaxed, where you played more of your character concept. So there was more multi classing and characters that were picked for more of thier style over substance.
The group I play in now has evolved into a more optimized group so to speak. A DM we play with now is an optimizer. Who has his sites set on high level play, and turnes most fights into dangerous encounters. By the logic that if you lived in this super deadly world, you would want to be as deadly in your own right. So, we now have become a group where multi classing is hard to do because you never become as powerful as you could if you stick to one class. You might dip into a class for an ability or two, but true multi classing would mean your true potential would never be reached.
I am not saying that we are the group of vorpol welding, full plate mail wearing, magiced to the hilt players, but it takes some careful planning to become a real threat. We have some players who havn't gotten the hang of it and I feal they are often overshaddowed.
But I feal a character who played a monk3 /fighter 3 /thief 2 would have a bunch of things they could do, but could not do any of them well. they would not survive in my group.
It kind of reminds me of chess in a way, that you have to plan ahead. I like both ways of play. But the first way is the one I am more used too.
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There is also the practice of Maximizing your Minimums - "Max/Mining."
These are the people who feel the only way to sufficiently role-play is to mechanically hose a character by refusing to plan past the next level, only selecting feats they have been expressly "given permission" to learn, and investing ability and skill points into seemingly random places.
It should be noted that the practitioners of this particular style will, more often than not, fail to see a difference between Min/Maxing and Optimizing.
Min/max to me is hurting your dump stats to get better primary stats.
Optimization CAN BE done to well rounded characters who are not min/maxed...Optimized based upon role, key examples of non-min/maxed characters would be MAD classes, and skill monkeys. Bards and Monks primarily, also two weapon fighters.
Power Gaming is about focusing on certain items to help min/max your character even more.
I try to make balanced skill monkeys generally, knowledge skills can be quite handy...especially with a DM that makes sure to penalize player knowledge...
GM "You see a shambling rag covered humanoid advancing slowly toward you"
Player: "I throw alchemists fire at the mummy!, and make sure it can't reach me."
GM: "Roll a knowledge (religion) to see if you actually know it's a mummy..."
Player "Right, Grod the Destroyer doesn't have knowledge religion...he destroys stuff with his axe!"
GM "So, since you don't know it's a mummy, what would your character normally do?"
Player "Grod the Destroyer grabs his axe and blindly charges forward full of rage!"
GM: "Better"