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Good Day
I got my Beastiary just in the nick of time. My converted Pathfinder campaign recently had a run in with a Great Wyrm Black Dragon. It was a long time coming, and while they had all converted their characters, it was a close call on getting a "Pathfinder" dragon.
My ONLY complaint, of an otherwise tremendous product is the dragon section. It took too much work to build an Age 12 dragon. I think what I'd like is a bonus web Enchancement that contains example dragons of each age group.
I understand that an encounter such as that isn't something that SHOULD be cookie cutter. A dragon of that import must be unique, terrible, and detailed. All the same it's a pain to have to build it up and tweak it. I'd rather take the default and play with it.
How do other people feel? What has been your experience?
I am fine with it, it just took me aless the 15 mins to fully write up and stat him out, mostly do to having to hunt the size chart and add up his total attack mods, but really I found it easy myself
Creative Director
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There's really no other efficient solution to the dragon situation. I actually was pushing for us to abandon the age category system altogether and simply provide the three stat blocks we DID provide. Statting up every age category with full stat blocks would have been a book in and of itself, so that's not a good solution either.
What we settled on, I think, is a pretty good and workable compromise.
And honestly... the high level game is a complex one, and statting up high level foes will take time. I personally feel that statting up a high CR dragon with the current system is no tougher than statting up a high CR NPC with class levels.
High level monsters should be special and memorable anyway, not just something you take straight from the book. In my games, I normally use hours pouring through various books to find suitable feats and items both for "ordinary" NPCs and intelligent monsters such as Dragons, encompassing both that NPC/Monster's backstory and desires.
Just taking a ready-made statblock with no changes works just fine for minions, but not for the big guns, IMO :)
I agree, Are (in fact, I always customize my non-grunt demons, devils, daemons, dragons, and so on when I'm writing my own adventures), but there is something to be said for having ready-made stats for creatures of all CRs.
Not that I'm objecting to the treatment of dragons in the Bestiary, mind. It's a streamlined version of WotC's True Dragon entry, and that's served me well enough so far. Like has been said, Paizo would need to make their own Draconomicon in order to provide stats for every size category of every dragon color (that's 120 different stat blocks -- 10 dragons * 12 age categories; for reference, there are 311 creatures in the Bestiary, not counting variants).
but there is something to be said for having ready-made stats for creatures of all CRs.
Of course; having a baseline to work from is great, plus once you reach higher levels, monsters that used to be the big guns become the grunts (and having to work as hard on each grunt as on the few big guns would be annoying :P).
Out of curiosity, I checked how much space the 3.5 Draconomicon stat blocks took up (where they actually did stat up an example Dragon of each age category): Page 201-276 (with a few pages used for sample lairs and similar).
Can't exactly expect Paizo to spend a third of the book on Dragons alone :)
There's really no other efficient solution to the dragon situation. I actually was pushing for us to abandon the age category system altogether and simply provide the three stat blocks we DID provide. Statting up every age category with full stat blocks would have been a book in and of itself, so that's not a good solution either.
Sure it is. I love Dragon books
There's really no other efficient solution to the dragon situation. I actually was pushing for us to abandon the age category system altogether and simply provide the three stat blocks we DID provide. Statting up every age category with full stat blocks would have been a book in and of itself, so that's not a good solution either.Sure it is. I love Dragon books
#2
I looked at the dragons the other day with a mind to stat of a Juvenile; an age that doesn't have a pre-made stat block.
One thing I wondered about were monster feats, and when I should add some (if at all) in between the stated up examples.
For example, an adult red has more feats than a young red. Are those the 'break points' when they receive more feats; or might they have an extra feat between those two ages?
Dragons get feats the same way other monsters do: one every odd hit die.
Dragons get feats the same way other monsters do: one every odd hit die.Correct. This is more or less a completely universal rule. No matter what, you get a feat every odd-numbered hit die.
Thanks to you both! I learned something today.
Unless you lack an Int score. :PDragons get feats the same way other monsters do: one every odd hit die.Correct. This is more or less a completely universal rule. No matter what, you get a feat every odd-numbered hit die.
I was just going to ask about this. I noticed that the Golems didn't have any feats.
Follow up question: If they gained an intelligence score, would they retroactively gain feats? Would that change their CR?
Follow up question: If they gained an intelligence score, would they retroactively gain feats? Would that change their CR?
Yes, and probably. (They would also retroactively gain skills.)
Cool! Thanks!
They would indeed gain feats. This would not change their CR.
Follow up question: If they gained an intelligence score, would they retroactively gain feats? Would that change their CR?
Though whatever gave them the Intelligence score might.
Though whatever gave them the Intelligence score might.They would indeed gain feats. This would not change their CR.
Follow up question: If they gained an intelligence score, would they retroactively gain feats? Would that change their CR?
What got me thinking about it was the part in the Flesh Golem section of the new Bestiary that mentions the possibility of intelligent versions.