I was discussing some world flavor stuff on another thread (not the original threads purpose, and the thread has basically dissolved into a 'I'm right you're wrong and a bad GM' argument. So I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss world flavoring and how different people look at it. I was hoping it might be a good thread for any new GMs out there that need some help on how to make their world seem more interesting.
I'll start it out with a comment I made on how I flavor religious institutions and divine magic in my worlds.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I usually like to change the fluff flavor of the classes some to match the fluff of the world. For church organizations, I like the church to match the gods alignment. Lawful gods have very heirarchical churches with strict rules and requirements for everything. Neutral gods have heirarchical churches, but they are much more open in their acceptance of people in their fold. Chaotic gods tend not to have any sort of structure to their churches in my worlds. I figure the alignments are there for a reason.
So, clerics for a Lawful god their magic tends to manifest in a fixed way. That is, if 5 different clerics of the same lawful god cast 'Flamestrike' they will be identical (in the way they look going off, the individual spells may be more or less powerful depending on how they are cast, caster level, damage rolled, etc). For example, all of them point a finger at the spot that they want the Flamestrike to occur, call on their god, their finger glows, and a beam of fire strikes where the flame strike is to be and it erupts.
A Neutral gods clerics all tend to be variations on a theme. So for them, flamestrike might involve calling on the god (in some way, from 'Flobar Strike Thee' to 'Yo Flobar, fry that ****er!' depending on the alignment of the cleric), and then each of the five might manifest the fire in a different but similar way. One uses a burning finger, one tosses a ball of flame like a softball, another makes a glowing symbol of his god in the air with his finger tip and the symbol flashes to the point of the flamestrike, etc.
A chaotic gods clerics usually manifest their spells in wild variety. One might call on his god and shout out 'Flobar fry that goober!', while another might belch the flame out of his mouth without calling on his god, another might hold his holy symbol aloft and have the fire blast from it, and another might have flames leak from his eyes and then shoot out to the point to strike and erupt.
|
Personally I ussually just let the domains do the flavoring (mechanically) for most clerics. The abilities they give were enought (most of the time) to determine a god´s flavor spilling on them. However I did once crate specific prestige classes for 5 different important faiths in an adventure. They were supposed to add more specific aspectsof the deity´s domains into the base cleric (roguish, barbaric, magical, atc). It was a painin the ass to make but ended up looking good.
|
I usually like to change the fluff flavor of the classes some to match the fluff of the world. For church organizations, I like the church to match the gods alignment. Lawful gods have very heirarchical churches with strict rules and requirements for everything. Neutral gods have heirarchical churches, but they are much more open in their acceptance of people in their fold. Chaotic gods tend not to have any sort of structure to their churches in my worlds. I figure the alignments are there for a reason.
That makes sense. Leave a little room for players to add to the setup as well. Few things get a player into a character (particularly a Cleric or member of a Sorcerer Bloodline or whatever) than getting to come up with a few details of their own, such as a holy animal (if one isn't already suggested, like Calistria and her wasps) or specific colors worn by the faithful or a holiday / festival / ritual practice of some sort.
I generally allow Wizard players to customize the special effects of their spells to a limited extent (nothing game-affecting, obviously, and anyone trained in Spellcraft will recognize even the more 'customized' fireballs as plain old fireballs with fancy trim). Specialist Wizards are encouraged to make any customization fit their specialty school (so a necromancer using a divination spell might create the perception of receiving information from whispering wraithly visages), and Sorcerers with a specific Bloodline would be encouraged to have custom effects evocative of their bloodline (that's never come up, since nobody has ever played a Sorcerer). Clerics would be less likely to have that sort of customization option, since they aren't inventing / researching / studying their spells, or channeling them from some innate magical source. They are requesting them from a higher power, and any 'custom' effects would be evocative of that power, regardless of their alignment, IMO. Still, I could see an exception here and there, such as a god of creativity and innovation (such as Aroden was said to be) allowing some tweakage of spell effects. Must religions, IMO, would follow fairly set rotes and traditions, with even the chaotic gods leaving their own mark on the spells they are handing down.
I'd probably make an exception for a Cleric / Druid variation that used prepared casting from a prayerbook, such as an Archivist, as they would be hip-deep in the nuts and bolts of the spells as part of their studies, instead of the core divine spellcasters, who don't necessarily have to know how to spell forbiddance to be able to ask Iomedae for one.
It just seems a bit hubristic for a Cleric to even ponder customizing the special effects of the miracles their diety is providing them, kind of like Moses saying, 'Oh Lord, part these waters, but wait, I want it to look like my staff has turned into an enormous horizontal cyclone and blown the waters aside!' which, in my mind, is followed by God saying, 'Yeah, I'll turn your staff into something, alright...'
When it comes to magic, my campaign setting has a few customization options. One of the elven races receives a modification of my homebrewed version of Spell Thematics feat for free as a result of a curse placed upon them by the gods; the standard homebrew version remains available for other characters to procure. Due to chaos in the heavens, clerics have the most customization options available for their magical themes roleplaywise- some loudly proclaim the continued existance of their deity as they work magic on their behalf, others simply believe that they ARE the deity themself trapped in an earthly form with access to only the most elementary miracles. Also, bardic music and magic now has a divine air as opposed to an arcane one due to campaign backstory, which can lead to different flavor choices depending on the player.
In the physical realm, monks(as well as fighters and others characters[not necessarily classes] who enjoy fisticuffs over verbosity) have access to expanded chains of fighting style feats that encourage players to be creative when describing both unarmed and signature weapon combat while discouraging builds and reliance on ranged warfare.
Monsters have changed as well. Goblins are scarier, Orcs slightly more intelligent and better organized, and undead are a very new menace for the setting as opposed to an old one.
Some of these things are up at my site, others are just ideas knocking around in my head, but that's what instantly cames to mind when I saw the topic.
Sorry for not posting to this thread, for some reason, it never showed me that anyone had posted after I did, so I'm catching up, sorry.
That makes sense. Leave a little room for players to add to the setup as well. Few things get a player into a character (particularly a Cleric or member of a Sorcerer Bloodline or whatever) than getting to come up with a few details of their own, such as a holy animal (if one isn't already suggested, like Calistria and her wasps) or specific colors worn by the faithful or a holiday / festival / ritual practice of some sort.
I generally do. Unless it's a huge change (Like, Mistria Lady of the Blue Waters and the player wants to make her colors yellow and red for example). Obviously, the more rigid the church structure, the less freedom the player has to customize, but, if they are the first cleric of that god(dess) in the game, then they have a lot of freedom to customize within a general theme. And the more neutral or chaotic churches are pretty wide open. I usually give XP for coming up with something original (might be a 10 or a 100 depending on how original it is for the player).
I generally allow Wizard players to customize the special effects of their spells to a limited extent (nothing game-affecting, obviously, and anyone trained in Spellcraft will recognize even the more 'customized' fireballs as plain old fireballs with fancy trim). Specialist Wizards are encouraged to make any customization fit their specialty school (so a necromancer using a divination spell might create the perception of receiving information from whispering wraithly visages), and Sorcerers with a specific Bloodline would be encouraged to have custom effects evocative of their bloodline (that's never come up, since nobody has ever played a Sorcerer). Clerics would be less likely to have that sort of customization option, since they aren't inventing / researching / studying their spells, or channeling them from some innate magical source. They are requesting them from a higher power, and any 'custom' effects would be evocative of that power, regardless of their alignment, IMO. Still, I could see an exception here and there, such as a god of creativity and and innovation (such as Aroden was said to be) allowing some tweakage of spell effects. Must religions, IMO, would follow fairly set rotes and traditions, with even the chaotic gods leaving their own mark on the spells they are handing down.
Yep, pretty much what I do. I even let the research if they want to make major changes to a spell (like, ice bomb instead of fire ball, same spell but with ice instead of fire, or acid bomb, etc). The clerics have less ability to research spells (for obvious reasons), but I try to give as much freedom on that sort of thing as possible.
I'd probably make an exception for a Cleric / Druid variation that used prepared casting from a prayerbook, such as an Archivist, as they would be hip-deep in the nuts and bolts of the spells as part of their studies, instead of the core divine spellcasters, who don't necessarily have to know how to spell forbiddance to be able to ask Iomedae for one.
I haven't had anyone play this type of divine spellcaster, but, I would have no problem with them customizing it. In fact, I would almost expect them to (take some spellcraft checks, say 5 over 5 weeks game time to 'alter' the spell without breaking it to change it. Say, 10+ 2x Spell level)
It just seems a bit hubristic for a Cleric to even ponder customizing the special effects of the miracles their diety is providing them, kind of like Moses saying, 'Oh Lord, part these waters, but wait, I want it to look like my staff has turned into an enormous horizontal cyclone and blown the waters aside!' which, in my mind, is followed by God saying, 'Yeah, I'll turn your staff into something, alright...'
Reminds me of an old story about someone slamming a rock with their staff and claiming they would be pulling out water instead of the god. :) But yeah, unless your god is chaotic or likes flashy things, something like that is not going over well.
What the heck, why not, I'll throw in my piece.
Whenever I start with a new group, I start with a brand spanking new world.
You see, the way I GM, the players are co-creators of the world. They and I start out by putting together their character concepts and hometowns. Then, after I've got a deep and thorough connection to the characters, their goals, ambitions, dreams, their past, their ties to the world, etc, we all meet for the first session.
Coming into that first session, I don't know what the party's going to do, or even where they will begin. There, in the moment, as the players all sit around the table, I begin to GM on pure instinct. Often, I start them in a town, each doing their own thing, and let them roleplay their way into a meeting, or they end up bumping into eachother out 'on the road' but others do happen, from the (rare) parties that already knew eachother and gather together on purpose, to those specifically called by somebody familiar with their abilities to hire them, etc.
Wow... I'm impressed. I can wing it utterly on the fly, but it's usually for a one-shot. Just the way my mind works, I guess. I prefer having the world firmly fixed in my mind, so I know all the goings on where the players are at. Not to say I force them to be from a specific place (unless again, like my current campaign, they are all explorers from a specific city that is just re-emerging into the world after having been isolated for centuries), but I like major landmarks, cities, towns, countries, and kings and such defined.
I spend about 3-4 months working up my world ahead of time. Then I work up usually about 10 to 15 pages of world background for the players, so they can read through it and get a good understanding of it. I've found it helps them come up with ideas they wouldn't have thought of before, most of the time, they latch onto something in the write up and come to me and say 'HEY! I really like <blah>, could I do that, but maybe, with this tweak?'. Usually that's ok too.
From there, everything is purely spontaneous and on the spot. Town names, NPC's, terrain, everything in the entire world evolves in the middle of the roleplay, maybe 80% of it comes from me, and the other 20% from the players who are free to describe what they're looking at, react to things, etc.Now granted, to do this requires an immaculate understanding of the rules and capacity for spontaneous creation (Hm, maybe I'm a sorcerer... lol) but every player I've ever had has absolutely adored the game. The world evolves around them. The next town down the river exists, and has whatever economic connection to the present town that it does, bla bla bla, but that data is created in the moment when the party asks about the town.
And yes, I love making my worlds extremely versatile and various. Just about every god ever published and any that aren't that players can come up with exist in their own way, there are Western European, Asian, African, Native American, Baltic etc etc communities and cultures within the world, just waiting for the moment of inspiration to strike and throw the players into an entirely variant culture from where they were before.
In short, I guess you could say that my worlds are alive, growing with every session. I have piles upon piles of data from old worlds, and once in a while a session will recreate a various old town, Organization, dungeon, etc, in which case I already have a rock solid foundation to build on.
Yep, I was going to ask, I assumed you keep meticulous notes during a session. Otherwise things would end up getting incoherent after a few games.
Sounds like once the game is started, we have similar styles (I usually only flesh out a paragraph or two about major cities, or cities I have identified may be quest locations), but all the miscellaneous cities and towns and hamlets in between are made up on the fly. Then I have to take notes so they end up getting added to the world.
Curious, do you do maps? Or is the world layout made up on the fly too?
When it comes to magic, my campaign setting has a few customization options. One of the elven races receives a modification of my homebrewed version of Spell Thematics feat for free as a result of a curse placed upon them by the gods; the standard homebrew version remains available for other characters to procure. Due to chaos in the heavens, clerics have the most customization options available for their magical themes roleplaywise- some loudly proclaim the continued existance of their deity as they work magic on their behalf, others simply believe that they ARE the deity themself trapped in an earthly form with access to only the most elementary miracles. Also, bardic music and magic now has a divine air as opposed to an arcane one due to campaign backstory, which can lead to different flavor choices depending on the player.
In the physical realm, monks(as well as fighters and others characters[not necessarily classes] who enjoy fisticuffs over verbosity) have access to expanded chains of fighting style feats that encourage players to be creative when describing both unarmed and signature weapon combat while discouraging builds and reliance on ranged warfare.
Monsters have changed as well. Goblins are scarier, Orcs slightly more intelligent and better organized, and undead are a very new menace for the setting as opposed to an old one.
Some of these things are up at my site, others are just ideas knocking around in my head, but that's what instantly cames to mind when I saw the topic.
Sounds interesting. I've always found some background before the characters to add a lot of spice. It's a lot easier for me to create a character (when I get to play, not often) if the world has some history I am aware of, and I can hook in off that. I do like the idea of changing monsters, but I think that comes from a few too many rules lawyers who would spout monster stats at the table when the group encountered them (and this coming from the cleric, not the ranger).
My current campaign is one built up off the idea that all the core races ended up almost exterminating each other in a war (humans fault of course). So, the continent is populated almost entirely by monster races now. And, with an absense of good, like any vacuum, it got filled by monster races who got tired of the constant infighting. First a shift to neutral, then to good. 1500 years later, there are strongholds of good surrounded by hoards of neutral and legions of evil (or legions of neutral, and hoards of good, depending on which you think is bigger, either way, more Evil than Neutral).
And the monsters and creatures have evolved over time, so while the sentient races are pretty static, their cultures are vastly different, and the wild animals are all mildly warped by some of the magic that was kicked off during the great war. :)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Okay, I think it would be profitable to discuss the nature of building magic systems for fantasy worlds. There will likely be some anthropology jargon thrown in here with the metaphysics, but since the ideas have been around for a while, they're worth discussing.
In a well thought out and constructed world, magic is more than handwaving. Which is not to say that a wizard can't just wave his hand and throw a fireball, but there's a reason for why this happens and why this works, even if the wizard himself may not precisely understand it.
The reasons for why a few gestures, a few words and a ball of bat poo may create a fireball include, but are not limited to, the following:
1. Natural Magic
In this magical system, certain things have intrinsic power. It's the basis of much lesser alchemy. In the same way that a cup of willow bark tea can cure a headache or a a death's cap mushroom can melt someone's liver, a ball of bat poo of precise dimensions flicked at a precise trajectory, along with various words chosen for their sonic resonance and various gestures and poses which modify the sonic patterns, can be reproducibly shown to create a huge explosion of fire.
2. Sympathetic Magic
In this magical system, "like produces like." A few scraps of poetry about fire, a few literally flamboyant, and a ball of bat guano and sulfur (which can be observed to burn very nicely) together pull on the force of sympathy and draw actual fire to the location of the bat guano.
3. Propitiation/Coercion
Termed "sorcery" in folklore studies, this style of magic has the magic user beg, threaten, bribe or otherwise coerce gods, devils, elementals, or other spiritual beings to use their powers on his behalf for some desired end. In this system, for example, the ball of bat poop might be considered a delicacy by fire elementals and tossing them one might create a pleased belch in response, with the resulting fireball.
4. Force of Will
In this system, it is the magician's will alone which alters reality. All words, gestures, and assorted paraphernalia are at best mnemonic devices and concentration aids.
5. Arcane Hacking
This system presupposes that some of the other systems are already in place but is an elaboration. A god or gods may have used a magical language to create the world and some of the words have been discovered or revealed and may be used in the same manner, or a great wizard may have created mighty spells by his will alone but then set up a way for them to be accessed which requires precise pronunciation of some nonsense verse, various embarrassing gestures, and a ball of bat poo, because that's something no one would ever hit on randomly. In this system, spells are basically command words to magic items which can be accessed from anywhere.
6. Mana or "Limited Good"
In this system, magic and/or luck is a quantifiable resource, much like water or lamp oil. It can be used up or replenished, and all things are usually considered to have some, though some more than others. This energy is usually depicted as having some interrelation with thought, as thought can give it formed, and when there are high enough concentrations of mana, anyone can direct it with a thought, not just magicians.
6. "Unlimited Good"
In this system, magic is not a resource which can be hoarded or squandered like oil but rather a universal constant like gravity. Like gravity, magic may have a dramatic effect, but also like gravity, it is not something that generally goes away.
This isn't an exhaustive list, but touches on some of the more common systems from folklore and fantasy.
When creating a world, it's useful to consider what the logic of each magic is, why it works, and when it does not work.
Huh,
We got moved to D&D 3.5/d20/OGL. Not sure why, this seemed to me like a general purpose discussion on world building, not any given version of the system.
Oh well, who knows what the powers that moderate are thinking (or drinking as the case may be). :)
And honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way, I'd get so bored preparing adventures and monsters ahead of time and trying to run a 'module' or whatnot. My games are an adventure for me as the GM as well.
I have to agree on the module stuff, I can't run modules, I get bored to tears. I will sometimes read a module and steal bits and pieces of it, but to run one, blech.
And yep, you should run your game however you want so long as you and your players are having fun. That's what I tried to point out to several people in the other thread, but none of the seemed to be interested in listening, it was all just 'our way or you are wrong'. *le sigh*
Lots of good stuff, a few comments below.
In a well thought out and constructed world, magic is more than handwaving. Which is not to say that a wizard can't just wave his hand and throw a fireball, but there's a reason for why this happens and why this works, even if the wizard himself may not precisely understand it.
+5 You need to always consider why magic works! Even if it's just 'Oh, well, magic is a natural force, and living things are infused with it, and can therefore, in some situations, manipulate it'. Which is kind of the default magic system for D&D, IMHO.
The reasons for why a few gestures, a few words and a ball of bat poo may create a fireball include, but are not limited to, the following:1. Natural Magic
In this magical system, certain things have intrinsic power. It's the basis of much lesser alchemy. In the same way that a cup of willow bark tea can cure a headache or a a death's cap mushroom can melt someone's liver, a ball of bat poo of precise dimensions flicked at a precise trajectory, along with various words chosen for their sonic resonance and various gestures and poses which modify the sonic patterns, can be reproducibly shown to create a huge explosion of fire.
This reminds me of a book by Glen Cook, in which a programmer ends up in a world where magic works. The mages are all rare because each spell has to be worked exactly right, because if you don't have just the right inflection, or flick the guano in exactly the right way, you can end up blowing up the entire castle. There are lots of tiny little spells that work repeatedly and have a really high tolerance for error, so he ends up building all those little spells into a spell language (like LISP) and writing programs. :)
4. Force of Will
In this system, it is the magician's will alone which alters reality. All words, gestures, and assorted paraphernalia are at best mnemonic devices and concentration aids.
And I think the default for D&D (see above). And the source of all Magic in The Belgariad.
5. Arcane Hacking
This system presupposes that some of the other systems are already in place but is an elaboration. A god or gods may have used a magical language to create the world and some of the words have been discovered or revealed and may be used in the same manner, or a great wizard may have created mighty spells by his will alone but then set up a way for them to be accessed which requires precise pronunciation of some nonsense verse, various embarrassing gestures, and a ball of bat poo, because that's something no one would ever hit on randomly. In this system, spells are basically command words to magic items which can be accessed from anywhere.
A really good example of this is, ironically, the Matrix. :)
6. Mana or "Limited Good"
In this system, magic and/or luck is a quantifiable resource, much like water or lamp oil. It can be used up or replenished, and all things are usually considered to have some, though some more than others. This energy is usually depicted as having some interrelation with thought, as thought can give it formed, and when there are high enough concentrations of mana, anyone can direct it with a thought, not just magicians.
Liavek novels, for example.
6. "Unlimited Good"
In this system, magic is not a resource which can be hoarded or squandered like oil but rather a universal constant like gravity. Like gravity, magic may have a dramatic effect, but also like gravity, it is not something that generally goes away.This isn't an exhaustive list, but touches on some of the more common systems from folklore and fantasy.
When creating a world, it's useful to consider what the logic of each magic is, why it works, and when it does not work.
Yep, and even under a given magic system, you can have subvarients. For example, Color Magic (think Final Fantasy series, or several books who's authors I can't remember from the 70's). Where you have Red Wizards casting fire spells, and Green Wizards casting nature spells, and White Wizards casting healing and Black wizards casting Necromantic spells.
Basically that would do away with the Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard and Cleric classes completely, and replace them with <color> Wizards (who might use a mismash of rules from all four classes). I've run something like this before, but it was a lot of work to balance the wizards out (although I called them Mages, Red Mage, Black, Green).
The big thing is a magic system needs to be consistent within it's own rules (even chaos magic follows rules, just it has a lot of rules on randomness). If it's not consistent, it breaks the suspension of disbelief, and players tend to start getting frustrated. Like those studies they did in the forties, they found consistently mistreating a dog would leave him healthier and happier than random abuse and kindness, which drove him insane rather quickly. Even if the magic system is a pain in the keester, the players will like it better than a system that makes no sense to them at all.
*edit* Oddest thing. I showed nothing on this thread and added a post and poof, all the above appreared. Well, time to do some reading and catch up. I'll leave the below in case any body is interested.
Well, we'll see how this one goes. Hopefully it won't devolve into a "right vs. wrong" thing. So, the world...
Personally I started with a solid knowledge of medieval and Renaissance history. I modeled certain parts of it on historical areas / periods and other areas on various fantasy settings / ideas. My campaign world started out as a setting for Chainmail fantasy supplement miniature games. It had a broad amount of geo-political and geographical information from the start. A lot of details only began to really fill in with the advent of D&D. The game became far more "personal" at that point with a host of new things that had to be considered.
As I matured and continued my education it began to be shaped by ideas of culture and society as well as history and fantasy. Considerations about how the actual presence of magic would have effected real world organizations and societies began to assume a greater importance. At the same time I wanted to keep it "fun" and true to the medieval fantasy flavor of typical fanatsy literature (there was no real fantasy game genre at the time -- Greyhawk was looming on the horizon but other than the supplement of the same name not much was known).
Eventually, the accumulation of a couple of more degrees and a certain amount of real world experience came into it. And the game, over time, began to develop its own history / mythology.
As an example, there was one major advance in my time line / setting. In the beginning (original D&D) I used "Tolkienesque" ideas about Elves. Ageless, no level limits. Later, as I moved to AD&D, I accepted the level limits / age restrictions inherant in that version of D&D. To maintain continuity I used a plot that was already developing in my game -- a war between the Elves and certain abbyssal lords and a later civil war between Elvish factions (including the origins of the Drow). It called for the Elves after defeating the demonic forces to "fall from grace", to give up their powers to save the world, becoming mortal with level limits. Shake it, stir it and give it a couple centuries (well, about a millenia) for the ruins to settle down and accumulate dust / new inhabitants. And viola, a new era. It justified changes in geography, explained the origins of races, craeated an ancient world which could be the source of (some forbidden) knowledge and magic items. This occured btw, at a major hiatus / pause in my game (I moved). Saved any players from experiencing the trauma :D
This shaped the attitudes of the Elfs (note the change in spelling / pronounciation to distinguish between the ancients and moderns). My Elfs are bitter, at once dedicated to preserving the glory of the past and envious of it. They *know* with absolute certainty that they are not the equal of their ancestors who were godlike in power (so godlike in fact that the leaders became the modern Elfin gods). The fall (or "The Limiting" as the Elfs call it) is a major element of my games past. It gives my Elfs a certain difference from the run of the mill. Not too different, and probably not too uncommon, but I wanted to keep my Elfs "within normal limits" as well as seperating them from the herd. I like the look of the "real world" and the appearance of typical fantasy, with a twist or two. Keeps it interesting.
So, pony up people. Game background / flavor. I am not above steali... er, borrowing the good stuff.
Lots of good stuff
Yeah, they moved it to D&D 3.5/D20/OGL for some reason. Not sure why, this isn't a discussion of rules or anything, it's generic world building (and I'm assuming people using Pathfinder need to build worlds too, not everyone buys Golarian stuff).
Anyway, I like the info, and I like the storyline. I'll work up a synopsis of the world I am building as a place to base all my games going forward when I can type it up.
OK,
So, here goes.
There are four continents in my world, and 2-3 'island' continents, but they are so close to major continents they are really just considered part of them by the locals (Like Madagascar with Africa for example).
The northern continent saw a great war 1500 years ago. 2500 years ago it had been filled with squabling baronies and kingdoms, each no bigger than Texas. There was constant fighting between them, raids by orcs and drow and goblins and bugbears, etc. It was not a fun place to live. Finally, one king watched his only daughter raped and tortured to death by a rival warlord who had his forces outnumbered 5 to 1. The whole army saw it too. Needless to say, they were incensed, which was what the warlord wanted, to get them to come out of their castle. It worked too. Unfortunately, for the warlord, he hadn't counted on just how angry the army would be. They slaughtered two-thirds of his army, killed him, and routed the rest. There were less than a dozen of the Kings army at the end. So the king did something he'd sworn he would never do, he made very one of his serfs an member of his army. He also did something else no-one had ever done, he made every one of them a nobleperson, and gave them land.
The next spring, when it was time for the annual wars to start up, his army (every person in his kingdom above the age of 14) marched into the barony of the warlord and took it over. They did this to kingdom and barony after kingdom and barony, from one end of the continent to the other. By the time he reached the desert, he had forged the entire continent into a new country. For the first time in history, the common people had peace. The royal bloods of each kingdom were given a choice, renounce their title and go into exile living in a martial (monkish) city in the mountains outside the country. Most chose this.
Fast forward through 500 years, and the country has it's ups and downs, the monstrous races didn't like this new country, so they banded together to attack it over the centuries. The descendents of exiles have built a new city and fortified it in the ruins of the ancient city. The Empire has had a string of poor leaders, and a civil war that left it a blasted hulk of it's former self under the hand of the most ruthless woman in history, who killed all her relatives to secure her claim to the throne.
The Drow assassinate the Empresses son, the only thing she loves, and frame the Elves for it. The humans, dwarves and elves had destroyed the three great Drow cities two hundred years before, and this was the revenge of the Drow. The Empress raises every soldier she can and destroys the elves and their forests. Then, when the Dwarves give them sanctuary, she destroys the dwarves as well, destroying her own army in the process. The Hoard rises up (Orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, drow, minotaurs, all the monstrous races banded together) and they roll over the blasted Empire, slaughtering and pillaging as they go. The Empress is killed and used as a flag by the hoard, and they push the remnantes, elves, dwarves, humans, halflings, gnomes, all south to the ocean, and the refugee's build ships while the army holds off the hoard so that as many as possible can escape.
The only city to withstand the Hoard is the Ancient City of Kotelian, where the descendents of the blood royals live. They've built up their defenses in depth, stored food, and they withstand the assault of the hoard for 20 years. Eventually, the hoard disentegrates, and Kotelian goes about rebuilding and restocking.
Over the next few centuries, the city begins to accept some neutrals and goods from the monstrous races, mainly because they don't have enough bodies to do all the work. Rumors spread that good and neutral monstrous races are welcome there, and their ranks swell. Even Drow begin to join the city. It expands, builds bigger walls farther down the mountain. Then another hoard attacks (orcs this time) and another seige that they survive.
Fast forward 1500 years from the time of the great war. The humans are gone, so are the gnomes and halflings. There are maybe a half-dozen dwarves left, all ancient, and 1 elf left. The rest of the city is monstrous races, goblins, drow, minotaurs, catfolk, orcs, etc. They have survived dozens of seiges and thousands of attacks and raids. The entire city is a martial fortress, and the population in the tens of thousands.
This is the continent my game takes place on, with the players acting as scouts sent out by the new Tabula Sententia (Burea of Thought). The CIA for all intents and purposes, their information on the continent at large is 150 years out of date due to some graft and corruption by the drow that ran the bureau before. So all the players are playing 'monsters' out exploring. And humans are the boogey man that adults use to scare children in bedtime stories. They are 10 foot tall and breath fire and eat children for breakfast. :)
|
|
The big thing is a magic system needs to be consistent within it's own rules (even chaos magic follows rules, just it has a lot of rules on randomness). If it's not consistent, it breaks the suspension of disbelief, and players tend to start getting frustrated. Like those studies they did in the forties, they found consistently mistreating a dog would leave him healthier and happier than random abuse and kindness, which drove him insane rather quickly. Even if the magic system is a pain in the keester, the players will like it better than a system that makes no sense to them at all.
We all want fairness and a sense of control (even if that control is ultimately an illusion). An arbitrary set of rules, laws, social mores, etc. just make us apprehensive and anxious and prone to unrest, as we feel out of control and persecuted by the unfairness of the system.
That's really the main reason games even have rules. To have fun, we have to believe that we can succeed. If the rules arbitrariy prevent success, or worse, offer success and then snatch it away, the game becomes frustrating.
Systems with floating 'spoiler' dice that can take away successes rolled are a great example of counter-intuitive game design. Systems with defense rolls and saving throws can be equally frustrating. I hit! YAY! He blocks. Boo! (One of the detractions I've heard about GURPS, how freaking frustrating combat between two relatively skilled fighter types can be, as both can parry, block and dodge each others attacks for a dozen combat turns, each waiting for that critical success, or critical fumble on the other guys defense, that will bypass defenses...)
A recent game (the invoking of which by name is worse than shouting Hastur, when it comes to summoning unwanted attention) did a neat thing when it streamlined spell effects into 'to hit rolls against Reflex,' putting the power in the hand of the caster, rather than having a secondary roll from the DM 'spoil' the successful casting. It feels more 'fair' and, as a player, I feel less like I've been 'robbed' of a successful casting by a saving throw or spell resistance or whatever.
e is worse than shouting Hastur, when it comes to summoning unwanted attention) did a neat thing when it streamlined spell effects into 'to hit rolls against Reflex,' putting the power in the hand of the caster, rather than having a secondary roll from the DM 'spoil' the successful casting. It feels more 'fair' and, as a player, I feel less like I've been 'robbed' of a successful casting by a saving throw or spell resistance or whatever.
Shadowrun was really bad about this until 4th edition. They finally went to a 'dice pool' system where dice get added or subtracted based on the defender's abilities. If nothing else they streamlined combat.
... Systems with defense rolls and saving throws can be equally frustrating. I hit! YAY! He blocks. Boo! (One of the detractions I've heard about GURPS, how freaking frustrating combat between two relatively skilled fighter types can be, as both can parry, block and dodge each others attacks for a dozen combat turns, each waiting for that critical success, or critical fumble on the other guys defense, that will bypass defenses...)
Of course, you realize that this is exactly how a combat between two very skilled warriors actually occurs, especially if a sport like fencing is taken as inspriation. :)
|
|
Of course, you realize that this is exactly how a combat between two very skilled warriors actually occurs, especially if a sport like fencing is taken as inspriation. :)
Yeah, it's just boring as all heck when the combat rounds take a minute or two to resolve (assuming multiple players, melee combat between two people could be handled in like 15 seconds, unless someone does something funky, same as in D&D, announce attack, roll dice, declare results, ding-ding, next round!) and you've got a dozen of them going on before someone scores a hit.
Love the versimilitude of GURPS, but it needed to be quickened up a bit (which we did in 3rd edition by ditching PD that didn't come from ultra-tech force fields, the Shield spell, Psychokinetic Shield or some other equally fantastic source, while buffing up Block to 2/3rds of Shield skill, to not horribly gimp shield users). 4th edition ran with our 'ditch PD' rule, but then added 3 to all defense rolls, just to *completely freaking miss the point.* Argh. Still, easy enough to house rule.
Of course, you realize that this is exactly how a combat between two very skilled warriors actually occurs, especially if a sport like fencing is taken as inspriation. :)Yeah, it's just boring as all heck when the combat rounds take a minute or two to resolve (assuming multiple players, melee combat between two people could be handled in like 15 seconds, unless someone does something funky, same as in D&D, announce attack, roll dice, declare results, ding-ding, next round!) and you've got a dozen of them going on before someone scores a hit.
Love the versimilitude of GURPS, but it needed to be quickened up a bit (which we did in 3rd edition by ditching PD that didn't come from ultra-tech force fields, the Shield spell, Psychokinetic Shield or some other equally fantastic source, while buffing up Block to 2/3rds of Shield skill, to not horribly gimp shield users). 4th edition ran with our 'ditch PD' rule, but then added 3 to all defense rolls, just to *completely freaking miss the point.* Argh. Still, easy enough to house rule.
Sounds like Runequest combat. The routine (IIRC): attack roll, dodge roll, parry roll (optional), shield block, did you hit/miss, hit location roll, damage roll, subtract armor (specific, and likely different on) to each location on the body; armor subtarcted damage), and did anything really happen? Hit points were based on Con (? term) and spread among the body. Hits in differetn locations had different effects. If your percent to hit was high enough you could divide it and make multiple attacks too. Wash rinse repeat. For each combatant. Combine that with low starting skills and it was a comedy of errors in the beginning. Like the Three Stooges or Keystone Cops meets melee. Oddly fun though, but it took hours to resolve minor skirmishes that would have been over in D&D in minutes.
OK,
So, here goes.There are four continents in my world, and 2-3 'island' continents, but they are so close to major continents they are really just considered part of them by the locals (Like Madagascar with Africa for example).
[/QUOTE}I like to know the general lay of the land too, even if you'll never use most of it. Good for background and flavor for NPCs and what not.
The northern continent saw a great war 1500 years ago. 2500 years ago it had been filled with squabling baronies and kingdoms, each no bigger than Texas. There was constant fighting between them, raids by orcs and drow and goblins and bugbears, etc. It was not a fun place to live. Finally, one king watched his only daughter raped and tortured to death by a rival warlord who had his forces outnumbered 5 to 1. The whole army saw it too. Needless to say, they were incensed, which was what the warlord wanted, to get them to come out of their castle. It worked too. Unfortunately, for the warlord, he hadn't counted on just how angry the army would be. They slaughtered two-thirds of his army, killed him, and routed the rest. There were less than a dozen of the Kings army at the end. So the king did something he'd sworn he would never do, he made very one of his serfs an member of his army. He also did something else no-one had ever done, he made every one of them a nobleperson, and gave them land.
The next spring, when it was time for the annual wars to start up, his army (every person in his kingdom above the age of 14) marched into the barony of the warlord and took it over. They did this to kingdom and barony after kingdom and barony, from one end of the continent to the other. By the time he reached the desert, he had forged the entire continent into a new country. For the first time in history, the common people had peace. The royal bloods of each kingdom were given a choice, renounce their title and go into exile living in a martial (monkish) city in the mountains outside the country. Most chose this.Fast forward through 500 years, and the country has it's ups and downs, the monstrous races didn't like this new country, so they banded together to...
That's the kind of history / backdrop I think any good campaign needs. Plenty of reason for those mysterious ruins, particularities of the campaign explained etc. Nice. Are you going to use Savage Species for the various monster characters or is it going to be house ruled? How about the internal politics / race relations in the city? Are these important or is the campaign going to focus on just the outer world?
OK,
So, here goes.There are four continents in my world, and 2-3 'island' continents, but they are so close to major continents they are really just considered part of them by the locals (Like Madagascar with Africa for example).
I like to know the general lay of the land too, even if you'll never use most of it. Good for background and flavor for NPCs and what not.
Yep, I also have the other three continents fleshed out (at the 30,000 foot level at least) and partially mapped. I'll post more details in a bit.
That's the kind of history / backdrop I think any good campaign needs Plenty of reason for those mysterious ruins, particularities of the campaign explained etc. Nice. Are you going to use Savage Species for the various monster characters or is it going to be house ruled?
Yep, that's the kind of games I run. I know some other people prefer to let the world evolve organically, but as a GM, it helps me to know all the history that went on. I can usually include most players wishes for backgrounds within a world, since I don't micro-image it down to the village and hamlet level. And the backdrop helps a lot with the players figuring out what they want to do for a character.
I used a mixture of MMX races (the ones that had stats for player use) and a little bit of the Savage Species book. They all started at 5th level (their mandatory time in the military). Races that had +1 ECL started at 4th level and 3,000 exp from 5th (I use the Unearthed Arcana ECL buyoff rules). Other races just had their levels adjusted for ECL (or ECL + Racial Hit Dice, in the case of the Bugbear and Ibixian). The game's evolved over the last two years. Only two of the original players still around (life, jobs, moving, etc). The last time we played, they were all at 9th or 8th level (going on 9). We had a Woodling Catfolk Druid, a Poison Dusk Lizardfolk Scout/Warlock, a Kobold Marshall (in adamantine plate no less, lucky find), a Duerger Duskblade, and a Draconic Half-Giant Fighter/Cleric of Bahamut. Probably the oddest group I've ever had as player characters, but then, that was the object of the game. They *just* saw a human for the first time while visiting the southernmost city in their continents swamplands. A merchant guard from the southern continent. They all had to make Will saves vs Panic (humans are the bogey man you know, the destroyers of legend). :)
Dang it all they all made their Will(17) saves. :(
Other Continents in my world :
The Southern Continent. This continent is heavily populated. Has been since the refugee's from the northern continent landed on the northern shores (it was populated pretty good then, but all those refugees). There are a dozen major kingdoms. The northwestern kingdoms are mostly humans, and include the big food producing kingdoms. The middle kingdoms are halfling kingdoms (mostly big open grasslands and hilllands). To the northeast the Jungles of the Catfolk, and just south of those are the two Elven lands. One is populated by civilized urbane Elves who have an armed truce with the human and halfling lands to the west (population pressure, so there are occasional wars trying to take some forest from the elves). The other elven land is populated by very primitive brutish elves (barbarian tribes). They fight with anyone that comes into their lands, even other elves. The only exception being four cities designated as 'outlander' cities, one at each cardinal direction (north = Catfolk, West = Elves, South = Dwarves, East = ocean port).
To the southeast are the great stone ranges where the three great dwarven realms (underground, and above). The gnomish cities are all in the dwarven realms, and they live peacefully with the Dwarves.
To the far southeast is a cold desert where warmblooded lizardfolk live (butts right up against the mountains). Then to the west of that are two vast hot deserts. The middle desert is a land of outcasts and self exiles from the other lands, a huge mix of all races on the continent. The land is brutal and harsh, but they are free from all the other kings and warchiefs and nobody messes with them (granted, mostly that's because nobody wants their land). :)
The southwestern desert wastes are orc controlled, and the desert there isn't all that bad. Lots of oases, plenty of dates and palms for food, huge fishing areas where the orcs bring in all the food they need, and lots of gold and fine sand for making glass. There are two types of orcs that live there, tribal orcs and city orcs. The city orcs pay the tribal orcs with food and medicine and magic, and the tribal orcs bring in glass sand and gold and precious gems. The city orcs also make very very good weapons they sell to the tribal orcs. The two groups live in a symbiosis, the city orcs supplying all the military equipment to the tribes, while the tribes provide all the defense. All the city orcs live at the southern and southeastern edge of the desert, so most human kingdoms have no idea there are anything other than just tribal orcs living in a hellish desert to the south of them.
The final kingdom is in the political center of the continent, it borders two desert kingdoms (lizardfolk and exile), dwarf, elf, halfling and human lands. It's a small country, the smallest on the continent, and populated by Ibixians. They occupy the spot of switzerland in the world. A neutral place for everyone else to meet. It helps that all the Ibixians in the country are heavily armed and armored (they charge a lot for their mediation services, and buy plenty of well crafted dwarven armor and elven magical weapons).
There is another small island continent to the south of the southern continent, about 100 miles offshore, it's a frozen wasteland with people eking out a living. Mostly neanderthals and other snow races here.
Eastern Continent
This is basically the 'orient' continent. I don't have it as fleshed out yet, but it's mostly occupied by the races from the oriental adventures book. Classes as well, so it's very different from the rest of the world. It's also smaller than the the other two continents, you could walk accross it in a month or so. The rest would take a year to walk across, not even counting terrain issues.
Sky Continent
Many thousands of years ago (near the same time the great war occured on the northern continent) the mages of a large island got way too inventive with their magic, and blew their island up. Literally, blew it right into the sky. The whole island lifted into the sky and broke up, so there are 4 chucks of the original island (and few thousand fragments) floating around. They never float away from each other, but they do float on the jet stream all over the planet.
Magic is warped on the island, and doesn't work with any regularity or safety. So, the islanders developed other means of doing things. Mostly that was psionics. Psionics work fine on the island, but not magic. They also developed a lot of technology that other lands didn't because of this. Flying ships, primitive gunpowder, advanced golems. Their mechanics are Artificers from the Ebberon campaign retooled to use Psionics and Elementals instead of magic. An air elemental bound into a ship (for a period of time, in exchange for rare earths from the island that are mixed air/earth elements). Fire elementals powering things, you get the idea. Very much a mix of psionics and steampunk. Imagine the flying ships from the earlier Final Fantasy games and you've got the idea. They trade annually with whatever continent they happen to be over (it takes a year for the island to complete one circuit on the jet streams.
The inhabitants are a mixture of humans and halflings (although both have wings, thanks to the wild magic that warped them as well).
About the only other thing of note in the world is that 2500 years ago another reality impinged on theirs. But not in the physical realm, it was in the planar realms. Imagine a parallel realm smashing into the planar realms, and shuffling them all up. The gods were cut off from the real world, so their avatars have been running around trying to keep things straight. This is why everything broke down on the northern continent, and why the sky continent came to be. All the chaos in the heavens bled over. The southern continent escaped the worst of it, and the Eastern just got lots of ghosts and other legends.
So now, 2500 years later, the realms are only now stabilizing. There are avatars running around realizing that the god they were an avatar for died in the fighting. Other gods that didn't exist then are just now learning about the world they now have access to, and there are heroes and villains who, because of the void left by the gods being gone, ascended to demigodhood. The churches know they were cut off, but only the highest ranking of the churches (IE: 17th level or higher clerics/favored souls/etc).
The planar realms are all different now. There's 5 Greater Planes (Good, Evil, Neutral, Law, Chaos), and 9 Lesser Planes (Positive Energy, Ethereal, Wood, Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Shadow, Negative Energy). There are also some demiplanes (Lava (where fire and earth meet), Plasma (where fire and air meet), Mud (where water and earth meet), etc).
All the old Realms (The Abyss, Sundeep, etc) got sucked into the Greater Planes (So, the Abyss is in the Plane of Evil now, just a hop skip and a jump away from Hell, and that makes the demons and devils extremely unhappy). Lots of jockying for position went on in the greater planes amongst the gods. It's a huge giant mess, and eventually someone has to go there and find out what happened.
So that's a huge explosion of things waiting on my players, as soon as they hit 12th or 14th level. :) Won't they be surprised?
I was discussing some world flavor stuff on another thread (not the original threads purpose, and the thread has basically dissolved into a 'I'm right you're wrong and a bad GM' argument. So I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss world flavoring and how different people look at it. I was hoping it might be a good thread for any new GMs out there that need some help on how to make their world seem more interesting.
I'll start it out with a comment I made on how I flavor religious institutions and divine magic in my worlds.
The condiment that I would use for this would be Melange.
5. Arcane Hacking
This system presupposes that some of the other systems are already in place but is an elaboration. A god or gods may have used a magical language to create the world and some of the words have been discovered or revealed and may be used in the same manner, or a great wizard may have created mighty spells by his will alone but then set up a way for them to be accessed which requires precise pronunciation of some nonsense verse, various embarrassing gestures, and a ball of bat poo, because that's something no one would ever hit on randomly. In this system, spells are basically command words to magic items which can be accessed from anywhere.
This is how divine(both clerical and bardic) magic work in my campaign setting.
|
|
Wow this got filled up really fast.
Just one thing about modules. I had never run a single one of them in all my years as DM as I always preffered a more non restrictive world building process. However as I got the shinny new PF bok I figured I´d make it easy for everyone who was expecting me to DM a game using it and decided to go for the Entombed with the Pharaos module.
And as I read through it I realized why I never liked running modules, because I´m never going to have as firm a grasp of a pre made setting as I would have my own. So what I did is completly ignore the NPC behaviors and backgrounds as I updated them to PFRPG. The result was a great great module plagued with my own NPC whose behavior I fully understood (players are still talking about a very complemetary auctioneer two months later).
So even thou it´s a bit off topic I just wanted to say that.
Wow this got filled up really fast.
Just one thing about modules. I had never run a single one of them in all my years as DM as I always preffered a more non restrictive world building process. However as I got the shinny new PF bok I figured I´d make it easy for everyone who was expecting me to DM a game using it and decided to go for the Entombed with the Pharaos module.
And as I read through it I realized why I never liked running modules, because I´m never going to have as firm a grasp of a pre made setting as I would have my own. So what I did is completly ignore the NPC behaviors and backgrounds as I updated them to PFRPG. The result was a great great module plagued with my own NPC whose behavior I fully understood (players are still talking about a very complemetary auctioneer two months later).
So even thou it´s a bit off topic I just wanted to say that.
Don't think it's off topic at all, I think it's right on target. That's how you worked with that world. Building a world via a module is just as much building one as building it from scratch, you're just using a common starting point (kind of like doing Eberron or Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance).
I do know what you mean though about modules, usually the most I do with modules is steal from them and then warp what I stole. The big thing for me is just like you, I can't keep it straight internally in the old brain. Not because it's a bad setting, but usually because it's built in a way that's not the way I would have built it, so it clashes with my worldview (both literally and figuratively) so I have to blend it up and make it mine. But can be a great source.
Once again, I'm requesting a Homebrew portion of the Paizo boards so we can all get together under one gigantic thinking cap to make our own worlds that much more interesting. And I want Hydro there doling out his excellent stuff!
|
|
This is how divine(both clerical and bardic) magic work in my campaign setting.5. Arcane Hacking
A god or gods may have used a magical language to create the world and some of the words have been discovered or revealed and may be used in the same manner,
Yeah, I've been using this since about second edition, right about the time that Al-Qadim came out, since the Sha'ir sending his Gen out to find spells just floating around out there made me start seriously thinking about where the magic came from. The only reason why there would be spells just floating around, waiting to be snagged, would be if they were the abandoned tools of creation, left behind when the creator(s) of the universe were done.
It also fit with the later interpretations of consorting with genies being a bit sacreligious, as the genies were said to listen in on the conversations of angels in Heaven, and that sorcerers could call them up to learn about the future from these eavesdropped tidbits. Having the Gens fetching leftover tools of creation evoked this sort of ambience, with the sorcerers 'stealing from Heaven' to accomplish their miracles.
This is how divine(both clerical and bardic) magic work in my campaign setting.5. Arcane Hacking
A god or gods may have used a magical language to create the world and some of the words have been discovered or revealed and may be used in the same manner,Yeah, I've been using this since about second edition, right about the time that Al-Qadim came out, since the Sha'ir sending his Gen out to find spells just floating around out there made me start seriously thinking about where the magic came from. The only reason why there would be spells just floating around, waiting to be snagged, would be if they were the abandoned tools of creation, left behind when the creator(s) of the universe were done.
It also fit with the later interpretations of consorting with genies being a bit sacreligious, as the genies were said to listen in on the conversations of angels in Heaven, and that sorcerers could call them up to learn about the future from these eavesdropped tidbits. Having the Gens fetching leftover tools of creation evoked this sort of ambience, with the sorcerers 'stealing from Heaven' to accomplish their miracles.
I need to make an edit- this is how BARDIC(DIVINE) magic works, clerical magic has implied permission from the (dead) gods.
I need to make an edit- this is how BARDIC(DIVINE) magic works, clerical magic has implied permission from the (dead) gods.
Oh,
That reminds me of another game I ran one time. The players were actually from different alternate worlds (I pretty much let them pick any world they wanted to be from, real world, alternate game world, etc. I ended up with a Minotaur from Shadowrun, a history professor from the real world, a stripper from the Star Wars universe (human), a college student studying economics (from the real world), and something else I can't remember).They got 'yanked' into the world when they died (their soul did actually, and bodies got created for them identicle to their old ones). The gods of this realm had had a huge battle thousands of years ago, and all but three were killed. One Neutral Good, one Neutral Neutral, and one Neutral Evil. But, the three remaining gods couldn't keep the world stable, and it was slowly being destabilized by all the divine energy released when the other 14 gods died. Seven 'Evil' gods (actually 5 evils and 2 neutrals) and seven 'Good' (actually 5 good and 2 neutrals).
The surviving three gods summoned two sets of 'heros' from other realms where the souls were older (elder souls). Only an Elder Soul could absorb the essence of a god safely (all the souls on this realm were being twisted by the divine power that has soaked into everything).
They were given a quest to assemble all the Relics of the Gods (Head Slot, Body, Shoulders, Ring, Ring, Belt, Boots, Weapon, Shield/Other Item). Five 'Evil' souls were summoned too (The Neutral Neutral goddess was the goddess of death and balance, and insisted on both good and evil being represented). So, the two groups set off to find all the lost Relics. Depending on which dead god the summoned souls picked, that was their class (the class of the God that died). They didn't know what it was, they just tried to pick up Relics and any relic that the god didn't match (LG vs CN character) wouldn't let them pick it up.
SO off they traipsed, looking for relics, doing good deeds, being led by Sages (Archivists) who had foreseen their coming. It was a good game, it took them 4 artifacts to realize they were actually merging with the powers of the dead gods. Everytime they found a new relic, they jumped a level in their class (in addition to leveling from adventure). If the game had ended, they'd have had to struggle mind to mind with the dead gods to see who won at the end, whether they absorbed the dead god and became the new god, or whether they got subsumed and made part of the resurrected god.
|
|
Dead gods are always fun (ussual more fun than alive ones).
I remember I once ran a game with the secret premise that all the gods and worlds had been devastated by a group of elder evils that multiple adventuring parties had failed to stop from awakening.
The entyre first ¨season¨ of the game was about figuring out what was going on in this little world of them.
As the adventure progressed they learned that many an ancient psions were being held prisioner in stasis under a keyhole shaped mountain standing in the middle of the capital, with small hints of their psionic energies being used to power something up.
They fought many intrigues (and memorable NPC) and figured out many old secrets just to learn in the very end (after freeing the psions) that the thing being powered by those guys was a massive planetary wide illusion that hid the world from the void wondering elder evils that had destroyed the rest of the multiverse.
The adventure was supposed to continue with them trying to figure out a way to defeat this elder evils from smashing this last of worlds, and also battle with the 4 masterminds who saw the end of the universe as a necesity. Sadly enought i was never able to continue due to a couple of the original players leaving the gaming group due to out of game interpersonal drama with some players.
What a shame.
They moved it again? This thread gets around. Time to read and catch up...
They moved it again? This thread gets around. Time to read and catch up...
LOL,
Yeah, I'm sure it will move again. They need a better way to keep track of the threads when they move them, like a shortcut in the old location that stays around for 3-5 days. Maybe pops up an alert that it moved and forwards you to the new location.
Consider me another voice in agreement. For a while my group took turns running modules with everyone getting a slot in the rotation as DM swapping their character out of the party while they ran. I found myself having trouble understanding preconceptions the module I would run had about the world and how the players would act. At the same time modules are a great source of prebuilt frames to start from. Having a map, plot hook, and some suggested encounters provided for you can be a real time saver and source of inspiration.
Yep, I ruthlessly steal maps, encounter ideas, etc. Then I rip the NPC's apart and make them what I need. Rarely have I kept the NPC's as the module presents. That said though, every once in awhile you get an NPC in a module that you just go 'Wow, gotta keep him around'.
They fought many intrigues (and memorable NPC) and figured out many old secrets just to learn in the very end (after freeing the psions) that the thing being powered by those guys was a massive planetary wide illusion that hid the world from the void wondering elder evils that had destroyed the rest of the multiverse.The adventure was supposed to continue with them trying to figure out a way to defeat this elder evils from smashing this last of worlds, and also battle with the 4 masterminds who saw the end of the universe as a necesity. Sadly enought i was never able to continue due to a couple of the original players leaving the gaming group due to out of game interpersonal drama with some players.
What a shame.
That's very Evil. I like it. :)
Missed this one earlier, sorry it took me so long to respond.
Consider me another voice in agreement. For a while my group took turns running modules with everyone getting a slot in the rotation as DM swapping their character out of the party while they ran. I found myself having trouble understanding preconceptions the module I would run had about the world and how the players would act. At the same time modules are a great source of prebuilt frames to start from. Having a map, plot hook, and some suggested encounters provided for you can be a real time saver and source of inspiration.
Yep, I ruthlessly steal maps, encounter ideas, etc. Then I rip the NPC's apart and make them what I need. Rarely have I kept the NPC's as the module presents. That said though, every once in awhile you get an NPC in a module that you just go 'Wow, gotta keep him around'.
The amount of work necessary to "convert" commercial modules is why I don't bother with them anymore. I do pull a lot of ideas from history, anthropology and a steady diet of fantasy / science fiction books. More "nuggetts" per page and fewer conversion issues :)
Yeah, I spit soda on that one :D It seems like every time I hit a link looking for it I get a blank field. That's what I get for page marking the thread I guess, but a lot of the sub boards aren't exactly easy / convenient to get to.
The irony is that there really is a section on these boards for Homebrew, but I would bet that it will never end up there.
Jokes on you bud, it started there lol.The irony is that there really is a section on these boards for Homebrew, but I would bet that it will never end up there.
** spoiler omitted **
Actually, it started off in General Discussion, which I thought was a good place since it was a general discussion. I was told that since I wasn't specifically talking about Golarian/Pathfinder discussions, it had to go to D20/3.0 Edition forum. Then someone else decided it needed to go into Gamer Life.
Wups lol. Now I remember where I saw that. The Homebrew section was suggested in the suggestions board but shot down because that's 'the pathfinder homebrew board' and clearly this thread is 'too general' for that. lol.Jokes on you bud, it started there lol.The irony is that there really is a section on these boards for Homebrew, but I would bet that it will never end up there.
** spoiler omitted **
Actually, it started off in General Discussion, which I thought was a good place since it was a general discussion. I was told that since I wasn't specifically talking about Golarian/Pathfinder discussions, it had to go to D20/3.0 Edition forum. Then someone else decided it needed to go into Gamer Life.
That kind of underminds the idea that the PathfinderRPG is supposed to be "backwards compatable." :(
Ok,
Thread slowing down, so time to add some more to it. :) Guess I'll have to keep it going as the original poster.
In my game, although the PC's haven't encountered it yet, there is a floating island. This island is where I intend to have Psionics exist. The inhabitants of the island were, many thousands of years ago (well, 2,500 which I think is many, although it's only a couple of thousand) were well renown wizards and sorcerers. The island was a natural source of raw magic, and casting spells was easier there than anywhere else (treated as 50% more spells per level).
The wizards and sorcerers were also the most knowledgeable about magic in the world. They are the source of all artifacts in the game world. However...
Their pride was bigger than their wisdom, and they experimented with things without truly understanding them. They tried to concentrate the magic as it spewed from the wellspring, under the misapprehension that they were the source of all magic, and that the rest of the world was using magic that was rightfully theres. So, they tried to capstone the magic, so they could control when and where it was released.
Needless to say the capstone worked for oh, say, 3 one billionths of a second. Then it detonated, and raw magic permeated every bit of the island. The island was blown, quite literally, sky high. The mages involved in the ritual were utterly destroyed by the backblast of magic. The island itself heaved so hard that many people on the island were killed. Only a third of the population survived, and they were all sick with the magic that permeated them. They barely survived over the next few hundred years, their descendants horribly warped by the magic. Eventually though, the excess magic was released, with just the magic that was permanently fused into the stone remaining. The descendants continued to evolve thanks to the magic, and the few humans and halflings and elves that survived had evolved into three new races, each race had grown large feathered wings from their backs, and now had feathers for hair. There were other, less viable, mutations, but those rarely survived to breeding age.
The culture was forever shattered, magic was anathema, and the few radicals who tried to use magic again found that the island itself made magic dangerous in the extreme to cast, more often than not detonating in a burst of raw wild magic that consumes the caster and anyone close in the explosion.
So, they developed two different methods of affecting their world. The first, psionics. Psionics and magic may be transparent, but they are not the same, and psionic abilities can be used safely (plus the mutations induced by the magic have left all three races with latent psionic ability. However, in my game, I'm limiting psionics to Mofication of Self (Powers that affect self) and Manifestation (Powers that manifest from the Psion, such as throwing flame, or summoning a construct) or mind only powers (like telepathy). Basically, you can't enlarge someone else, but you can generate heat with your mind to burn them up. You can make your own body hard as diamond, but not someone elses. Basically, buffs are self only, but most other powers work as normal.
The other development was technology. Mostly steampunkish in nature. They are able to open rifts into other planes and travel (psionics) and they bring back the primordia of those planes to use as raw materials for their technology. So, steam engines powering their airships (which are made from living wood from the Plane of Wood). Air Essence infused into that wood from the Plane of Air to leave it gravity neutral. To power the steam engines, they retrieve Magma from the Demiplane of Magma (where the Planes of Rock and Fire touch and merge), which is stored in ceramic shells that glow a dull red all the time from the heat inside.
So, this island is a no-magic zone, and so they also have lots of technology and equipment that exists nowhere else. They are safe from all invaders save perhaps very determined dragons (and dragons would not like the island, with the bad magic). The island trades for food and supplies with earthbound nations, sometimes trading skyrock (which is repelled by gravity).
Ok,
Thread slowing down, so time to add some more to it. :) Guess I'll have to keep it going as the original poster.In my game, although the PC's haven't encountered it yet, there is a floating island. This island is where I intend to have Psionics exist. The inhabitants of the island were, many thousands of years ago (well, 2,500 which I think is many, although it's only a couple of thousand) were well renown wizards and sorcerers. The island was a natural source of raw magic, and casting spells was easier there than anywhere else (treated as 50% more spells per level).
Interesting. Sounds like Tekumel (Empire of the Petal Throne) in which there are areas that are magically rich and others that are barren. I haven't used that in my game although I have mulled it over. The barren areas would cause the magically inclined PCs to scream like branded calves though... probably make the fighters smile though :)
The wizards and sorcerers were also the most knowledgeable about magic in the world. They are the source of all artifacts in the game world. However...Their pride was bigger than their wisdom, and they experimented with things without truly understanding them. They tried to concentrate the magic as it spewed from the wellspring, under the misapprehension that they were the source of all magic, and that the rest of the world was using magic that was rightfully theres. So, they tried to capstone the magic, so they could control when and where it was released.
Forbidden power is always fun, and good for a disaster. Also for megolomania. Nice combo.
Needless to say the capstone worked for oh, say, 3 one billionths of a second. Then it detonated, and raw magic permeated every bit of the island. The island was blown, quite literally, sky high. The mages involved in the ritual were utterly destroyed by the backblast of magic. The island itself heaved so hard that many people on the island were killed. Only a third of the population survived, and they were all sick with the magic that permeated them. They barely survived over the next few hundred years, their descendants horribly warped by the magic. Eventually though, the excess magic was released, with just the magic that was permanently fused into the stone remaining. The descendants continued to evolve thanks to the magic, and the few humans and halflings and elves that survived had evolved into three new races, each race had grown large feathered wings from their backs, and now had feathers for hair. There were other, less viable, mutations, but those rarely survived to breeding age.
I used the Chaos Wars (Elves vs. Demons} and Kinstrife (Elves vs. Elves) in my world to explain numerous aberations, humanoid races, chimerical beings and those piles of magical weapons and gear that always seem to be scattered around. Not to speak of the crater shaped rings of mountains, lakes, seas etc. War and natural / unatural disaster, the Dms friends :)
The culture was forever shattered, magic was anathema, and the few radicals who tried to use magic again found that the island itself made magic dangerous in the extreme to cast, more often than not detonating in a burst of raw wild magic that consumes the caster and anyone close in the explosion.So, they developed two different methods of affecting their world. The first, psionics. Psionics and magic may be transparent, but they are not the same, and psionic abilities can be used safely (plus the mutations induced by the magic have left all three races with latent psionic ability. However, in my game, I'm limiting psionics to Mofication of Self (Powers that affect self) and Manifestation (Powers that manifest from the Psion, such as throwing flame, or summoning a construct) or mind only powers (like telepathy). Basically, you can't enlarge someone else, but you can generate heat with your mind to burn them up. You can make your own body hard as diamond, but not someone elses. Basically, buffs are self only, but most other powers work as normal.
Nice. Psionics neatly explained, isolated and made into an adventure of discovery. Good one. I've looked over psionics, never used it in game though. Partly my own prejudice ("magic for nonmagic users" was the first thing I grunted back when Eldritch Wizardry introduced it to the original D&D, the second was "balance issues" and the third was "maybe later"), partly indecision over how to introduce it to a setting that hasn't had it since then and may not really need it. I can see some people racing to pillory me for that. Ahh, well, I like how you've done it.
The other development was technology. Mostly steampunkish in nature. They are able to open rifts into other planes and travel (psionics) and they bring back the primordia of those planes to use as raw materials for their technology. So, steam engines powering their airships (which are made from living wood from the Plane of Wood). Air Essence infused into that wood from the Plane of Air to leave it gravity neutral. To power the steam engines, they retrieve Magma from the Demiplane of Magma (where the Planes of Rock and Fire touch and merge), which is stored in ceramic shells that glow a dull red all the time from the heat inside.
That's another thing i've considered but stayed away from, magical technology. I have come close with the ancient Elves (who used magical golem transports, interplanar portals to maintain there artificial environments, etc.) but never given into it in my current era setting. again, isolated, discoverable and potentially cool loot :) Interesting stuff. I can see you're players faces light up with the possibilities when they run into it. Or maybe, light up with fear, depending on what they run into...
So, this island is a no-magic zone, and so they also have lots of technology and equipment that exists nowhere else. They are safe from all invaders save perhaps very determined dragons (and dragons would not like the island, with the bad magic). The island trades for food and supplies with earthbound nations, sometimes trading skyrock (which is repelled by gravity).
I like the way you've handled disparate elements that are outside the norm for the regular D&D magical world. Allows PCs to encounter it and maybe even dabble in it without it dominating your game. Well done. I still don't know about the psionics angle, but you've got me thinking about what could be found on the stars and planets that dot the inside of the giant spherical shell that contains my world. Not too many visitors over the years. Could be a fun place to intro some ancient Elvish "tech".
Thanks.
The Bahgdad Battery did cause a panic and no one will accept the possiblity in orthodox circles because it means that all those solid gold items sat in museums maybe gold plated. They did use goldleaf a lot which may have in fact just be plating.
If you wanted to get technical then dwarves using lodestone/magnatite Stone Shaped and copper wire coils/brushes and you have the beginnings of a dynamo. Now throw in a water elemental "running" around and you have a pocket hydro-electric station.
The problem that "we" have is that the idea of man in ages past making such things is difficult to understand. People forget that our brain stopped any meaningful development 100K years ago and that "stone age" man had the same reasoning abilities as "modern" man.
A common misconception is ancient man= Dumba$$ modern man= Smart.
Yea, cos we are soooooo smart ;)
The issue boils down to "Necessity is the Mother of Invention".
And warfare...
From another thread.
I have used such ideas in a strange campaign I ran at University many, many moons ago.
If anyone is intersted I could dig out the campaign notes and post snippits up here. Basic premise was that if magic/technology worked hand in glove what could be possible. Input was from all sides mostly after a few beers.