I have scoured these threads for something akin to this but most are skirmish/sneak attack/sudden strike/ambush related.
I want to make a new feat (or combination of feats) for a ranger archer for sniping.
Would it be terribly unbalanced to make a feat(s) that would give a attack and damage bonus equal to character level and at full weapon range? (Instead of at 30' as for sneak attack type abilities).
It would certainly be less powerful than any sneak attack type ability (particularly at higher levels).
Also it will be limited to single attack per round (like skirmish)with some movement possible but stack damage with the vital strike tree. I could also add it in as a class specific skill/ feat.
In my present campaign I'm not using prestige classes but modifying existing base classes for flavor to suit the players and their respective play styles and my currant campaign.
What are your thoughts on this, homebrew gurus? Thanks in advance.
I have scoured these threads for something akin to this but most are skirmish/sneak attack/sudden strike/ambush related.
I want to make a new feat (or combination of feats) for a ranger archer for sniping.
Would it be terribly unbalanced to make a feat(s) that would give a attack and damage bonus equal to character level and at full weapon range? (Instead of at 30' as for sneak attack type abilities).
It would certainly be less powerful than any sneak attack type ability (particularly at higher levels).
Also it will be limited to single attack per round (like skirmish)with some movement possible but stack damage with the vital strike tree. I could also add it in as a class specific skill/ feat.
In my present campaign I'm not using prestige classes but modifying existing base classes for flavor to suit the players and their respective play styles and my currant campaign.
What are your thoughts on this, homebrew gurus? Thanks in advance.Back when I mistakenly thought Vital Strike multiplied all but str damage, I was convinced that was the ultimate sniper feat. RAW, however, it does not seem to be the case.
I would love, however, if VS were multipling everything. My build for a fighter (sniper) using a hvy crossbow netted over 100 dng every round...
The ranger archer will only do X amount of damage unless he/ she is using a full attack action. The rogue sneak attack is a powerful damage dealer. But to make a ranger archer without the skirmish/ SA ability that wants to be a move and shoot (and move again with spring attack) instead of using a full round attack will do minimal damage, even with the vital strike tree.
Which is why I'm interested in creating this feat or class ability so there is at least some reason for a ranger archer to use tactics while attacking. It's not about doing insane amounts of damage, but sufficient amounts, for instance, with a 20th level ranger archer specialist firing 1 arrow, a rogue would do an incredible amount of damage in the same circumstance while the ranger would do little better at 20th level than at 1st.
Something similar to Sneak Attack yet doesn't stack with it would be in my opinion ideal. Don't want Rogues with Sneak Attack and a sniper feat doing 1d8 + boatload of d6 + boatload of other damage. Not even sure if I'd want Rogues able to Sneak Attack at 30 feet then back off further and end up with the same bonus.
Something similar to Sneak Attack yet doesn't stack with it would be in my opinion ideal. Don't want Rogues with Sneak Attack and a sniper feat doing 1d8 + boatload of d6 + boatload of other damage. Not even sure if I'd want Rogues able to Sneak Attack at 30 feet then back off further and end up with the same bonus.
It wouldn't stack with sneak attack. Could make it a ranger archer only feat so this wouldn't really occur. Say at 10th level a rogue firing one arrow would do 1d6+10d6+vital strike. A ranger archer at 10th would in the same situation get 1d6+10+vital strike. The rogue would obviously win hands down in that contest but it would make the ranger a little more fun to roleplay. Maybe even +2/ lvl. But no attack bonus along with it. I wrote that by mistake in the OP. It also wouldn't work with full round attacks which have rapidshot and manyshot. On the other hand the SA does work for full round attacks, although I'm not completely sure why...
I have scoured these threads for something akin to this but most are skirmish/sneak attack/sudden strike/ambush related.
I want to make a new feat (or combination of feats) for a ranger archer for sniping.
Would it be terribly unbalanced to make a feat(s) that would give a attack and damage bonus equal to character level and at full weapon range? (Instead of at 30' as for sneak attack type abilities).
It would certainly be less powerful than any sneak attack type ability (particularly at higher levels).
Also it will be limited to single attack per round (like skirmish)with some movement possible but stack damage with the vital strike tree. I could also add it in as a class specific skill/ feat.
In my present campaign I'm not using prestige classes but modifying existing base classes for flavor to suit the players and their respective play styles and my currant campaign.
What are your thoughts on this, homebrew gurus? Thanks in advance.
Perhaps add in a 'time spent aiming' modifier. Something like the Assassin's deathstrike from 3.x where the character has to study their target and remain undetected for x amount of time for the modifier to trigger. Also a minimum range requirement might apply.
Adding this in the format of (for example):
Sniper Shot(EX)
By studying their target and maintaining a certain distance and detachment, the Ranger may add x amount of damage. This damage is modified by critical on a 1:1 basis. (ie a x3 modifier would provide 3x damage on a confirmed critical hit.
That's just my tuppence.
The Order of the Bow Initiate prestige class from Complete Warrior uses a sneak-attack-like mechanic, allowing a single shot with a bow to add +xd8 damage, but it was limited to within 30' until the 10th level capstone that extended it out to 60'.
The Crossbow Sniper feat from 3.5 PHBII allows you to add 1/2 your Dex bonus to damage with a crossbow, and extended the allowed range of skirmish or sneak attacks out to 60'.
And that's as good as it gets. The system is pretty consistant in that you can't deal precision damage unless you're in close.
Real life arguments for this is that arrows cannot be accurate over long distance reliably. Yes, you can occasionally put a guy's eye out from 500', but that's a critical hit. A sneak attack or other precision damage is something that you do each and every time you hit if you meet the conditions. An arrow, even the best ones, wobble in flight and do not travel fast enough to overcome the effects of the air they're moving through to make that kind of precision possible, on a reliable basis, over long distances.
In game arguements for allowing longer ranges? Magic, supernatural abilities, hey-it's-just-a-game-let's-have-fun.
Edited to add: I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, just pointing out the current framework. Trying to go too far beyond it may result in the law of unintended consequences raising it's ugly head.
Wow, a whole bunch of responses a week later! I like your ideas Mikhaila and Kurt. As far as the 30' goes (to others), 30' isn't very far. You zero a fifle at 300 meters (or roughly 900'). A ranger archer is supposed to be the ultimate archer, why would he only be firing it as far as the neighbor's house? A bow can fire out to 10 range increments, perhaps 30' should be the range for a "sneak attack" but a sneak attack and a sniper shot are two different animals.
I apologize for making so many rule mistakes in my posts from last week here, I worked out that other class (ranger shadow dancer type base class) and I believe my brain was fried.(Like writing spring attack instead of shot on the run, etc.)
OP by Mikhaela Burnett 313:
Sniper Shot(EX)
By studying their target and maintaining a certain distance and detachment, the Ranger may add x amount of damage. This damage is modified by critical on a 1:1 basis. (ie a x3 modifier would provide 3x damage on a confirmed critical hit.
OP by kyrt-ryder: FEAT-
Sniper's Shot:
Prerequisites: +6 BAB, Rapid Shot, Many Shot
Benefit: A Ranger with this feat may spend a standard action to fire a single shot at one of his favored enemies. This attack (Fired with a +2 bonus), is an automatic critical if it hits.
I'm not really using the favored enemy/ terrain class feature. You both imply using critical hit rules for damage. That would work well. I will improvise onto yours...
Sniper Shot(ex):
Prerequisites: +6 BAB, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot
A Ranger with this feat may spend an attack action to fire a single well placed shot at one full range increment. This attack (Fired with a +2 bonus), is an automatic critical if it hits.
It's an attack action which means it should stack with the vital strike tree, and also cannot be used with full round attacks. Is that workable to Y'all?
The point of tying it to favored enemies made it significantly more restricted. Separating it from that, I'd suggest adding Far Shot as an additional prerequisite. Oh, and remember, you still have to confirm the crit.
While far shot would be sensible to add to a character with this feat, it only reduces penalty for using ranged weapons beyond it's optimal full range increment. The feat is based on hitting with precision at the normal range increment (60'- 70' w/ shortbow and 100'- 110' w/ longbow). I do see your point and will add it in.
I understand the point of favored enemies, but not sure I agree to the necessity for limiting all of the ranger's abilities to pre defined enemies and terrains. Not saying anyone else should feel that way, just that I am not relying on it in my personal campaign.
And yes, you would still need to confirm the critical hit. Here goes...
Sniper Shot(ex):
Prerequisites: +6 BAB, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Far Shot
A Ranger with this feat may spend an attack action to fire a single well placed shot at one full range increment. This attack (Fired with a +2 bonus), is an automatic critical if it hits but must still be confirmed as such.
Thank you for your input
I have scoured these threads for something akin to this but most are skirmish/sneak attack/sudden strike/ambush related.
I want to make a new feat (or combination of feats) for a ranger archer for sniping.
Would it be terribly unbalanced to make a feat(s) that would give a attack and damage bonus equal to character level and at full weapon range? (Instead of at 30' as for sneak attack type abilities).
It would certainly be less powerful than any sneak attack type ability (particularly at higher levels).
Also it will be limited to single attack per round (like skirmish)with some movement possible but stack damage with the vital strike tree. I could also add it in as a class specific skill/ feat.
In my present campaign I'm not using prestige classes but modifying existing base classes for flavor to suit the players and their respective play styles and my currant campaign.
What are your thoughts on this, homebrew gurus? Thanks in advance.
Actually, there's a really well written, concise feat in the Campaign Setting under the Kyonin writeup. Found this, thought of you.
Actually, there's a really well written, concise feat in the Campaign Setting under the Kyonin writeup. Found this, thought of you.I have scoured these threads for something akin to this but most are skirmish/sneak attack/sudden strike/ambush related.
I want to make a new feat (or combination of feats) for a ranger archer for sniping.
Would it be terribly unbalanced to make a feat(s) that would give a attack and damage bonus equal to character level and at full weapon range? (Instead of at 30' as for sneak attack type abilities).
It would certainly be less powerful than any sneak attack type ability (particularly at higher levels).
Also it will be limited to single attack per round (like skirmish)with some movement possible but stack damage with the vital strike tree. I could also add it in as a class specific skill/ feat.
In my present campaign I'm not using prestige classes but modifying existing base classes for flavor to suit the players and their respective play styles and my currant campaign.
What are your thoughts on this, homebrew gurus? Thanks in advance.
Alas Mikhaila, I don't have that book yet. However I do like the critical type feat listed above. Thanks all.
Wow, a whole bunch of responses a week later! I like your ideas Mikhaila and Kurt. As far as the 30' goes (to others), 30' isn't very far. You zero a fifle at 300 meters (or roughly 900'). A ranger archer is supposed to be the ultimate archer, why would he only be firing it as far as the neighbor's house? A bow can fire out to 10 range increments, perhaps 30' should be the range for a "sneak attack" but a sneak attack and a sniper shot are two different animals.
The 30' (or at most 60') limit for precision damage is for the reasons I outlined in my real world arguements before. Watch the Mythbusters episode about splitting an arrow. Arrows undulate and warp in flight. Arrows are orders of magnitude slower than bullets, and have more surface area and thus are affected much more by even minor atmospheric disturbances. The effect of those disturbances will be exponentially worse the further the arrow has to fly.
Hitting a man-sized target at 100' is not too difficult. Even hitting one at 1000' is possible. With magical assistance (Distance enhancement) you can get it even further, and with specialized training (Far Shot feat, and others) you can get better at hitting things further away. However, due to the *random* oscillations of the arrow in flight, plus all the slight disturbances in the air, you cannot hit *exactly* where you want, *every* single time. Which is what precision damage is.
Wow, a whole bunch of responses a week later! I like your ideas Mikhaila and Kurt. As far as the 30' goes (to others), 30' isn't very far. You zero a fifle at 300 meters (or roughly 900'). A ranger archer is supposed to be the ultimate archer, why would he only be firing it as far as the neighbor's house? A bow can fire out to 10 range increments, perhaps 30' should be the range for a "sneak attack" but a sneak attack and a sniper shot are two different animals.The 30' (or at most 60') limit for precision damage is for the reasons I outlined in my real world arguements before. Watch the Mythbusters episode about splitting an arrow. Arrows undulate and warp in flight. Arrows are orders of magnitude slower than bullets, and have more surface area and thus are affected much more by even minor atmospheric disturbances. The effect of those disturbances will be exponentially worse the further the arrow has to fly.
Hitting a man-sized target at 100' is not too difficult. Even hitting one at 1000' is possible. With magical assistance (Distance enhancement) you can get it even further, and with specialized training (Far Shot feat, and others) you can get better at hitting things further away. However, due to the *random* oscillations of the arrow in flight, plus all the slight disturbances in the air, you cannot hit *exactly* where you want, *every* single time. Which is what precision damage is.
Look up any archery sight online. it would appear that 30- 40 yards is pretty common to zero a bow. That is, MOST shooters can place 3-5 arrows in a 3 inch circle at 30- 40 yards. That works out to about 90- 120'. That is precision in theory and practice. Therefore getting a critical hit in optimal range 60'- 70' shortbow and 100'- 110' longbow (actual possible ranges according to rules being 600'- 700' and 1000'- 1100' respectively) shouldn't be all that fantastical, considering having the prerequisite precise shot and far shot related feats, (and this is a fantasy game). I'm not trying to add on 10d6 here but double damage criticals. Even at higher levels stacked with the vital strike feats this would certainly not unbalance a game, considering that it couldn't be used as a full round attack action.
IIRC, there was an assassin/ranger spell that let you deal precision damage on the next attack with no maximum range. I believe it was Sniper Shot, from complete compendium.
I could see it being a derivative of crossbow sniper (possibly itself extended to include bows and slings), in which you make a single attack as a full-round action that can deal precision damage to any range. In addition, you could allow Telling Blow (PHB II iirc, precision damage on a critical) to work for ranged weapons, or simple have the player choose a weapon with which to apply to, like they do with Improved Critical or Weapon Focus.
The Samurai class in 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming's Paths of Power is going to have a number of archery related feats available to it, based off of Kyujutsu - the art of Zen Archery. You might find some of those useful to you.