Some changes in 6th edition...
Attack Versus Limited Defense (AVLD) - allows damage from powers to be applied against less frequently used defenses.
Based On Ego Combat Value (BOECV) - essentially turns physical powers into mental powers allowing the attack to be against EGO instead of DEX.
No Normal Defense (NND) - allows damage from powers to be applied against very rarely used defenses, however, just having the 'defense' makes one immune to the attack.
All of these have been rolled up into two new Power Advantages, Alternate Combat Value (ACV) and Attack Versus Alternate Defense (AVAD).
You can now make a physical attack use mental combat or vice versa. AVAD allows attacks to be applied against a more consistent classification of defenses.
For more info, see here.
When is 6th Edition Hero due for release?
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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When is 6th Edition Hero due for release?GenCon
Thanks, Poodle! I'll probably be picking it up soon!
Rapid Fire and Sweep have been combined into Multiple Attack. In addition, you can now Multiple Attack with different attack types (melee, mental, range).
New maneuvers: Choke, Shove, Strafe and Trip.
New rules for improvised weapons.
More details here
Honestly, when I first heard about 6th I was, "Meh." But as I read these showcase posts, I am starting to get excited.
When Steve first started posting his thoughts about 6th, I did not think he was going far enough to really make Hero a building block game. I still hold to that. However, it seems he is going further than I originally thought.
A lot of these changes seem to be unifying much of the rules, which I believe makes things simpler. That is not to say I think Steve is 'dumbing down' the system. I would say streamlining or making more efficient. I still see the same flexibility there.
I am still not happy about the two books thing or a third book with 'advanced' options. One of the beauties of Hero was you really only need the core rule book. All the supplements (splat books) really just demonstrated how to use the core rules in ways you may not have thought of.
I do not blame Hero for taking this approach though. It has worked for WotC. People rush out and buy three books instead of insisting the publisher release all the rules in one. Hero was really shotting themselves in the foot for not doing this sooner.
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Based On Ego Combat Value (BOECV) - essentially turns physical powers into mental powers allowing the attack to be against EGO instead of DEX.
Are you f-ing kidding me, I'm gonna use my physical powers as mental powers?!? WTF! This is ruining hero. I for one am never going to play hero ever again. Or at least I'm gonna keep my fives of dollars that I've invested in 5th edition and keep playing that.
I have some very bad news for you and your fives of dollars…BOECV is in 5th edition.
I must be missing something. I do not see how it is any more nor less important.
6etard.
6offender
Either that or you've completely forgotten who it is talking to you.
All you bipeds look alike.
6etard.Sounds like a sexy leotard. Must be a bunch of 5gnards posting.
Speaking as someone who still likes HERO 4th Edition as one of the best examples I've seen of a "building block" system, the changes/streamlining are probably a good idea (IMO). They have the potential to reduce the (relatively steep) learning curve for the system while keeping the flexibility; a win-win result.
The marketing strategy I'm a bit ambivalent on. In some ways it's similar to the 4th Edition release of the HERO System Rulebook vs. the Champions Rulebook (of which the HERO System Rulebook was basically the first section, along with a GM section and a Champions Campaign section). However, with the higher print costs now, as opposed to 20 years ago, it probably makes more financial sense to split things up more. I just hope it doesn't end up like 3.5 D&D or RIFTS, with official/"must have" content/information spread out over a bunch of different books.
Unfortunately, I do not believe the streamlining will reduce the learning curve enough to draw in new players. Reasoning from effect seems a pretty big paradigm shift in my experience. It is not intuitive to a lot of people.
While Mutants & Masterminds does exactly the same thing with powers, there are still enough D20 hold overs to make D20 fans comfortable. And Feats are still individual rules sets unto themselves.
I am afraid spreading "must have" content across multiple books has proven too successful a model not to embrace.
Unfortunately, I do not believe the streamlining will reduce the learning curve enough to draw in new players. Reasoning from effect seems a pretty big paradigm shift in my experience. It is not intuitive to a lot of people.
Ironically, I think that this may have been a lot of players' problem with Mage: the Ascension.
Of course, once one can "make the leap" many things in other games - besides Hero - become a lot easier to understand.
The change I like the best is getting rid of the "stun lottery" for killing attacks (or, as we called it in my group, "Stun Yahtzee"). I had some bad experiences with that one.
Of course, once one can "make the leap" many things in other games - besides Hero - become a lot easier to understand.
Maybe Mutants & Masterminds has help some D20 fans break down that barrier.
..."Stun Yahtzee"...
I hear that was a big problem for a lot of folks. I think we always used Hit Locations or just went with a straight x3 multiplier, so it never caused me much concern.
..."Stun Yahtzee"...I hear that was a big problem for a lot of folks. I think we always used Hit Locations or just went with a straight x3 multiplier, so it never caused me much concern.
I never played a version Champions with hit locations, but isn't that still "Yahtzee!(tm)" when you hit a guy in the head?
A straight stun multiplier would be better, although when I was playing (2nd edition) killing attack stun bypassed non-resistant defenses, so you would still have been better off knocking someone unconscious with a gunshot instead of a club.
You do have a point there. I have never been a fan of Hit Locations. Even the years I played G.U.R.P.S. It kind of kills my suspension when you finish off an opponent by hitting him in the left foot. Of course, when you hit someone in the head, it should count.
Come to think of it, any damage dice is going to be somewhat Yahtzee like.
I usually run more Iron Age than Gold or Silver Age so I did not worry much about killing vs. non-killing. I think I still saw a fair spread between Killing Attacks and Hand Attacks/Energy Blast. Really, my problem was more what to do with a room full of thugs that are just unconscious instead of dead. Having to go around and coup de grace them all ruffled my feathers. Granted, this is in the Heroic games (ironic huh?) and not the Super games.
Oh, and just to add, I like in Mutants & Masterminds, they just let the players decide if it is killing or not and if the victim is dead or just unconscious. I know it is not very realistic, but great for cinematic games when you want the heroes to keep one alive for interrogating.
Come to think of it, any damage dice is going to be somewhat Yahtzee like.
The more dice you roll, the less swingy it will be. Cf. the Central Limit Theorem.
Area of Effect has changed so the size of the area is determined by the cost of the Advantage instead of the Active Points in the Power. This makes much sense and also does away with the complication of trying to figure Active Points based on other Advantages.
Explosion has been rolled into Area of Effect. This seems like another case of putting all like species in one group.
A new type of area is Surface. This should be useful for recreating the old standby Grease spell.
More info here.
Interesting. Like the commenters on that thread, I'd have to see the actual prices to know if I liked it or not.
If you know it. I have a question about the ultimate fate of ...
;D
Yes, Comeliness is being replaced with a Talent.
Yes, figured stats are being decoupled.
Dear lord! The colors!
I do not think this is a deal breaker for me, but still…
What's on the cover? I have/had the 2e Champions book (black-'n'-white picture of a hero and a villain fighting) and the 4e Champions book (George Perez cover of "iconic" supergroup fighting Dr. Destroyer); the 4e cover was way better.
Just HeroMan© enclosed in a hex. Much like fifth edition.
Hiya.
One *little* itsi-bitsi thing they could do that, for me and everyone I've evern known who's tried to make a character for HERO, HERO Games could do is this: Make a Character Sheet that has NO "Points" listed on it anywhere, and a seperate sheet for "character building" that has a list of where all the points for the character are spent.
Seriously. For me (and everyone I've known...bla bla bla), looking at a character sheet and seeing formulae and 'points costs' with a bunch of letters and numbers in brackets...including fractions...my eyes glaze over. When I'm RP'ing, I don't care how much some power cost, or how that cost was arrived at...all I want to know is the basics of using the power/thing.
Ex: "Metalic Fists (10pts; HA +2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2)".
---lots of stuff there that looks suspeciously like game-specfic numbers and rules)---
---all that is really needed would be...
"Metalic Fists (HA 2d6)"
---aaahhhh...much more 'newbie friendly'. If some specific of the power needed to be known, look on the 'creation sheet'. But 9/10 times, you don't need it.
At any rate, I'd like to see a character sheet that is devoid of "Cost" and other 'not needed very often after character creation' stuff. Stats should have "Val STAT Roll Notes" and that's it.
Anyway...the bottom line is "simplicity at first glance". That would go a VERY long way to getting newbies to play. Me? I own a LOT of the PDF's; even printed out the core rules and Fantasy HERO. But I've never played, and I blame that almost fully on the character sheet. Maybe I'm odd, but that's my 2¢ on the matter.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
That is a fair criticism. When I introduce new players to Hero, I generally ask them what kind of character they want and I build it for them, complete with a clean sheet that contains no costs.
Unfortunately, Hero Designer does not come with a template that eliminates costs. I had to design my own. It was not rocket science, but certainly not something your average player is going to bother with.
It is a matter of philosophy. Hero does not give you self contained abilities. It gives you basics and allows you to design your own abilities. Instead of giving you Fireball fully stated out in a PHB, you get Energy Blast with dozen of modifiers to choose from to build your very own Fireball. The problem is you have to explain on your particular character sheet how your own, personalized Fireball works.
Some supplements help with this providing examples of fully constructed abilities. Maybe they should produce more supplements along this line, like more Fantasy Hero Grimoires and Ultimate Superpowers Data Bases.
Mutants & Masterminds runs into the same problem with advanced powers. I think it is a byproduct of flexibility. Mutants & Masterminds kept Feats as self contained abilities which allows them to push more splat books with new Feats.
Hiya.
Yeah, I 'remade' the first character sheet to be clear of the points cost and such, but it'd be nice to have an 'official' one.
For charcters...my plan was/is to ask players to create charcters for any fantasy game they want, and I'll convert it into HERO System (Fantasy) for them.
My current creative project for HERO is a setting I've had for a while called "Gamma-7"; basically mix Sci-Fi, Horror, Fantasy and set it all in a Post-Nuclear setting. :) Mostly, it's kind of a "GammaWorld meets Call of Cthulhu...with a smidgeon of Thundaar the Barbarian".
Anyway, yeah, Hero looks like a lot of fun to play...but getting all the mathmatical creation out of the way is the biggest hurdle for me and the gang. :(
Hero Designer would be a huge help. If you are planning on using 5th and you use Microsoft's Word or Open Office's Writer, I can send you a copy of my template for character sheets.
Hiya.
Hero Designer would be a huge help. If you are planning on using 5th and you use Microsoft's Word or Open Office's Writer, I can send you a copy of my template for character sheets.
Yup, Hero Designer is great! (bought it about the same time I got all the other stuff). I've used it to kinda get the 'feel' for characters and all that. What we need is a "Monster Hero Designer" and "Item & Spell Hero Designer" now... :)
I'd love to get your templates (I use OO.o); try me at pming11 at zworg dot com. :)
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Steve Long has provided a 5E to 6E character conversion summary.
Does anyone know how much overlap/redundancy there will be between these four books? I've posted below the basics of what I can find by looking at Herogames.com, Amazon.com and Diamond's PREVIEWS solicitations for November:
Volume 1 (Character Creation; 464 pages):
SKU: DOJHERO1001
ISBN: 978-1-58366-120-8
Price: $39.99 US
Volume 2 (Combat and Adventuring; 320 pages):
SKU: DOJHERO1002
ISBN: 978-1-58366-121-5
Price: $39.99 US
The 6th Edition rules come in two Core Rulebooks, Characters and Combat And Adventuring. Together these two books feature: the full HERO System rules, revised and updated for greater flexibility, creativity, and ease of use, full color art throughout, hundreds of example powers and a dozen example characters from many different genres, and guidelines for converting characters from the 5th Edition to the 6th Edition, to make the transition process a simple one and ensure that books written for the 5th Edition rules remain just as useful to HERO System gamers!
HERO RPG 6th Edition Basic Edition Core Rulebook (192 pages)
SKU: DOJHERO1003
Price: $19.99 US
...strips out all the options, variants, and expanded rules discussions to present you with the absolute core of the HERO System...
HERO RPG 6th Edition Advanced Edition Core Rulebook* (100 pages)
SKU: DOJHERO1004
Price: $24.99 US
...includes optional rules culled from a wide variety of sources, including existing supplements and the best "house rules" ever encountered...
*aka Advanced Player's Guide
SKU1004 has roughly half the page count of SKU1003, but costs 25% more. SKU1002 has almost one-third fewer pages than SKU1001, but the same cover price. The page counts for the four books don't permit any kind of guess as to their overlap.
Another Question (since I have not actually had a chance to review a Rulebook):
Did Hero break Backward Compatability?
Yes, I realize that some conversion work will be need, but how easily can you use stuff from previous editions?
For example: the change in how "figured" characteristics work is huge.
It is my understanding HERO RPG 6th Edition Basic Edition Core Rulebook will be completely redundant to the first two Core Rulebooks. The basic is a stripped down version in hopes of appealing to a more casual HERO gamer.
The Advanced Player Guide is new material that did not make it into the first two Core Rulebooks. I believe it will be optional new rules.
Character Creation is like the PHB. Combat and Adventuring is like the DMG.
While the changed to secondary characteristics is pretty dramatic, I seriously doubt that piece will prevent anyone from using previous material. It is mostly going to impact character creation. I see no reason why you could not use the stats from previous sources unless someone wanted to use one of them for a PC.
As far as I can tell, there are some cost changes and name changes. Beyond that, I think 6E if fairly backward compatible.
It is my understanding HERO RPG 6th Edition Basic Edition Core Rulebook will be completely redundant to the first two Core Rulebooks.
So, Core(1) + Core(2) + Adv = maximum non-redundant coverage. Sounds good.
So, has decoupling secondary characteristics made Hero unplayable yet?
So, has decoupling secondary characteristics made Hero unplayable yet?
No. Not being able to find the books at my FLGS has made Hero unplayable. :(
I do not think the books are in yet. Something about customs.
I do not think the books are in yet. Something about customs.
This is true.
But, your question was ...
So, has decoupling secondary characteristics made Hero unplayable yet?
I was answering. "No, at this point in time, my not being able to get my hands on the books as been the primary obstacle me playing Hero 6th Edition." ;P
And, no I am not going to go buy the PDF until I can check out the rule books first.
The change I like the best is getting rid of the "stun lottery" for killing attacks (or, as we called it in my group, "Stun Yahtzee"). I had some bad experiences with that one.
One of my players one shotted the BBEG in segment 12 by rolling all 6's on a pushed 5d6 (5 1/2d6) RKA and then rolling a 6 for the stun multiplier! 33 Bod and 165 Stun; Shortest fight ever! Seriously, it's before 9 PM and we all just sort of looked at each other and shrugged.
The change I like the best is getting rid of the "stun lottery" for killing attacks (or, as we called it in my group, "Stun Yahtzee"). I had some bad experiences with that one.One of my players one shotted the BBEG in segment 12 by rolling all 6's on a pushed 5d6 (5 1/2d6) RKA and then rolling a 6 for the stun multiplier! 33 Bod and 165 Stun; Shortest fight ever! Seriously, it's before 9 PM and we all just sort of looked at each other and shrugged.
I had one campaign based on Parasite Eve (old PS1 Game, SUPER good and perfect for a supers game background).
One player got hit in the 13 (vitals, which we sort of played as being the family jewels) so many times that it was a running joke that people were intentionally trying to castrate him. In one fight he got bit by a large wolf creature from in front while the creatures handler clawed him from behind, both in the 13. Honestly, it was so often it was uncanny. Every third roll for him was vitals.
He finally bought an extra 25 defense that only protected the 13.