I want to use 4e to run a Warhammer 40k type game. I didnt want to get into 4e until I started thinking about getting some use out of my 40k figures.
1) How hard would it be to drop the Grid Map for combat?
2) Is it difficult to "adjust" classes to fit certain SCI-FI themes?
3) Do I have to "adjust" any rules to allow rapid fire weapons?
4) Is game balance affected if I limit players choices of Races?
5) How much does the new alignment system affect gameplay?
6) Can the rule set handle, say 10 to 20 combatants with out affecting game time to much?
7) Can certain Classes be ignored with out it affecting game Balance?
Thanks for any help!
Eric
1) How hard would it be to drop the Grid Map for combat?
Relatively tough. I don't recommend it unless you're willing to lose a lot of what gives 4e's combat system its depth.
2) Is it difficult to "adjust" classes to fit certain SCI-FI themes?
No, this would be pretty easy to do.
3) Do I have to "adjust" any rules to allow rapid fire weapons?
It depends on how you handle it. There are a number of things I could suggest, but I'd first want to hear about how you might implement them.
4) Is game balance affected if I limit players choices of Races?
Game balance won't be affected much at all. It might make certain classes very slightly less effective than they potentially could be, but no one will feel really penalized if they aren't playing the perfect race for their build.
5) How much does the new alignment system affect gameplay?
It doesn't.
6) Can the rule set handle, say 10 to 20 combatants with out affecting game time to much?
Roughly 10 combatants is, in fact, expected of 4th Edition combat. You can increase it to 12 or 13 without much difficulty at all. You can make it way higher than that if some of the combatants are minions.
7) Can certain Classes be ignored with out it affecting game Balance?
As long as you aren't removing entire roles from the game (you need to allow your players to create Leaders, Strikers, Defenders and Controllers) then no, it's not going to be a big deal. There's no such thing as a class that's required for the party to work.
You might also want to check Star Wars Saga. It's 4E as well and has already plenty of the future-adventure tools you need (except for space marines' uber power armor, that is).
Not alot of time todya, or much that this weekend to post so thanks.
Scott,
I was hoping you would post, you seem to be one of the most knowledgable when it comes to 4e, THANKS!
Eric
You might also want to check Star Wars Saga. It's 4E as well and has already plenty of the future-adventure tools you need (except for space marines' uber power armor, that is).
Star Wars Saga Edition is really not 4th Edition. It was released prior to 4e, and does contain a couple new game mechanics that ended up being used by 4th Edition as well, but it is at the same time completely different. You might look to it for inspiration (which is a fine idea), but you probably won't be able to steal game mechanics whole from it.
Not alot of time todya, or much that this weekend to post so thanks.
Scott,
I was hoping you would post, you seem to be one of the most knowledgable when it comes to 4e, THANKS!
Eric
No problem. Happy 4th!
I knew I had read something like this before but I didn't remember where, and funny thing was it was here in the message board:
Then I saw you also posted in the thread so you probably already remember this but I'll link it anyways.
I think you can drop a grid and replace it with inches: Slide 3 becomes slide 3".
I think Sci-Fi is just special effect.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C Clarke
Actually I think the answer to all your questions is yes.
I believe the standard grid size is 1" so you can probably just use 1 sqaure = 1" and completely get rid of squares.
I cross posted the same thing over at wizards and got some interesting replies
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1150382
It changed wuite a bit from the original idea to the actual game I ran but it worked out pretty well :D Tha main change is that each chapter origin got one of the racial encounter powers, rather than some of the racia bonuses.
We used Space hulk board sections and everyone brought a Deathwatch marine. Tons of fun!
I knew I had read something like this before but I didn't remember where, and funny thing was it was here in the message board:
Then I saw you also posted in the thread so you probably already remember this but I'll link it anyways.
I think you can drop a grid and replace it with inches: Slide 3 becomes slide 3".
I think Sci-Fi is just special effect.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C ClarkeActually I think the answer to all your questions is yes.
Yeah I think I posted there about liking the Idea. Thanks!
I cross posted the same thing over at wizards and got some interesting replies
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1150382
It changed wuite a bit from the original idea to the actual game I ran but it worked out pretty well :D Tha main change is that each chapter origin got one of the racial encounter powers, rather than some of the racia bonuses.
We used Space hulk board sections and everyone brought a Deathwatch marine. Tons of fun!
I think im gonna avoid diving into multiple Chapters. I really want the game to be Story driven. I finished the Souldrinkers Omnibus recently and loved it.
So I really want to focus on a single Chapter. Something all the players have sat down and discussed a bit.
Im gonna be throwing the Necron or maybe Orcs but Im not sure yet. I got about a month to get some of the details worked out.
My biggest problem is getting past my apprehension over 4e. Now I could use any system I wanted I guess, and I know theres a 40k official RPG out there, but I neither want to buy it or use a different system.
I own the 4e Core books and they have sat around for nearly a year, im gonna get some use out of 'em. And who knows I may grow to really like 4e. Thats a good thing right?
Last of all Im so sick and tired of the "Edition Wars" this is my way of coming to terms with a system I really dont like. Hells, I didnt like 2e but I used it for years.
4e to me is sreaming for this kind of game.
Eric
I believe the standard grid size is 1" so you can probably just use 1 sqaure = 1" and completely get rid of squares.
Yes I agree, I think Ill need to mark faceing points on the bases of the minis, That way flanks and such wont be fought about....
"But my Marine was looking that way see his heads turned that way..."
Scott,
1)On dropping the Grid: Using the Idea I have from the pervious post, would that work well enough?
2)I think renaming some powers, Feats and abilitys will go a long way, what do you think? Just by adding SCI-FI fluff seems a good way to make the game "feel" different.
3)Thinking about rapid fire, I might just have the Bolters do more damage than they would in single fire. The draw back would be ammo depleting faster.
4)In the perfect world all my players will be Human Space Marines....that aint gonna happen. Could I call all the races Human and just assume they are different Mutations and strains of Humanity?
It would seem that might be a little difficult with the Dragon Born...
5)Alignment for 4e fits 40k almost perfect.
6)The number of Combatants is kinda vital to my Ideas for the Game. Does 4e handle attacking inanimate objects well? Would it be possible to reflect Vehicle combat without creating new rules?
7)These are the classes I would like to use:
a)Cleric: Chapter Chaplain
b)Fighter: Space Marine
c)Paladin: Chapter Librarian
d)Ranger: Space Marine Scout
e)Warlock: Imperial Psyker
f)Warlord: Chapter Commander
Ideas?
Thanks
Eric
I want to use 4e to run a Warhammer 40k type game. I didnt want to get into 4e until I started thinking about getting some use out of my 40k figures.
1) How hard would it be to drop the Grid Map for combat?
2) Is it difficult to "adjust" classes to fit certain SCI-FI themes?
3) Do I have to "adjust" any rules to allow rapid fire weapons?
4) Is game balance affected if I limit players choices of Races?
5) How much does the new alignment system affect gameplay?
6) Can the rule set handle, say 10 to 20 combatants with out affecting game time to much?
7) Can certain Classes be ignored with out it affecting game Balance?
Thanks for any help!
Eric
Hey Eric -
I'm a veteran 40k player and a big proponent of Sci-Fi campaigns. I like the idea behind this - I think that the 4E system can lend itself very well to the gritty and pulpy universe of 40k.
1) I'd just follow the advice of the others above. 1" equals 1 square. While realism may be a problem, it will certainly mimic a 40k feeling very well. Break out your terrain and tape-measures. You can even pull out your old blast templates.
2) The flavor of 4E can be easily modified (indeed, it's supposed to be). The classes can easily become whatever you like them to be - the medieval base for much of D and D is the same gothic base for 40k. It sounds like you're going for a Space Marine campaign. The Fighter becomes the Tactical Squad member, the Warlord the Seargent, the Wizard a Librarian or Devestator, the Cleric the Chaplain, and so on and so forth. Keep it campaign specific, and work with your players to fit their classes in your concept.
3) I would look carefully at ranges. Not all the Melee based classes are that effective for those battling Eldar and Chaos marines - nonetheless, if you make the Scout/Rogue type able to shoot across the battlefield, your Blood Angel Death Company member will be out of place. I'd look at the ranges in the 40K book for various weapons - make that the range for the PC's standard weapons. Then figure out which powers can work at both Melee and Range - work rapid fire into the flavor of those.
4) I don't see any. That being said, it's easy to explain race changes away with the usual mix of genetic engineering and planetary variation. Even if you don't have Eldar, Stunties and Ratlings in your campaign, the Scout who uses an Eladrin or Elf as a base is genetically engineered to have those traits. The same is true for the Goliath Terminator or Dwarven Tactical squad member. They're all human, but they're DNA has been specialized.
5) In the amoral and brutal world of 40k, I wouldn't worry about it. There is only the Emperor's Will. All the rest is Heresy.
6) It certainly can. Look into Minions to represent the teeming hordes of Orcs or Heretics. That'll help mimic 40k's wound system, let Seargents and Boss's stand out, and help keep the battlefield hectic without being too crowded.
7) Yes, but make sure you keep party balance. Make sure they're a cohesive special forces squad (Deathwatch, perhaps), or a cohesive tactical squad. You don't need Wizards or Warlocks, per se, but you want to understand what happens if you don't have a Controller or Striker in the combat model.
I think it's a neat idea. I like the 40k model a lot (pun intended). I would direct your attention to a couple other systems that can do what you want them to do - the first is Fantasy Flight Games' Dark Heresy, which is a 40k roleplaying game in and of itself! Focused on the Inquisition, it can easily be transferred into creating a Squad of Space Marines. d20 Modern is a very flexible system aimed at creating a wide variety of characters - I've run a number of successful Sci-Fi RPG's with the system. And finally, look into the old Rogue Trader game. It's the original rules for 40k, and while not at all helpful for rules ideas, it's packed with great material on running a campaign like the one you've suggested.
Good luck!