I have a bit of a problem with my party in J1, Entombed With The Pharoahs. They've taken a course of action that has wildly warped the general plan of the adventure and I'd like some advice on how to make sure they still have fun with it.
As background: I've modified it to be set in the Forgotten Realms; my players are agents of the Church of Kelemvor who were sent to Mulhorand (the logical setting) to investigate recently unearthed ancient tombs. Her Majestrix's Expedition became a group of Thayan Wizards out to exploit ancient magics; my party hates the Thayans for a number of reasons (mostly earlier run ins and a party member being from Rashemen).
The party met with Mithral Scarab, and all started off well. They then reached the auction, refused to even talk to "Nefertet," and left before they could interact properly with the Thayans. Seeking out the Black Reliquary before the museum, they bypassed the false mask entirely. Some they bluffed their way into a private tour of the Crook Bearer's collection (through brilliant role-playing and no small amount of luck) and, when they saw the mask, grabbed it and ran. The Scout in the party easily outran the guards and the party escaped out of the city and into the night.
So, lacking much of the background that makes the adventure so engaging, barely being conscious of the four marks of the pharoahs, and having ruined some excellent roleplaying moments, the party ventures to the Pyramid. SHortly thereafter, they realize the Thayans (who have no reason to doubt the fake mask) are also travelling in that direction. Worried that the Thayans are up to no good, they decide to intercept and ambush them (the Thayans, having never encountered the party at the auction or the museum, have no idea who they are).
In a brilliantly executed morning raid, the party wipes the Thayan Expedition out to a man without ever speaking to them. Any hope of rivalry or brinkmanship is gone.
We pick up the party preparing to enter the pyramid in the next session. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get some crucial information about the pyramid to them? What about recreating the sense of urgency, rivalry, and excitement otherwise created by having a rival party?
I don't want to punish my players for being tactically minded, scoundrels in both action and role-playing, and generally taking control of the adventure. But I'd hate for the PC's to miss out on the brilliant history behind this pyramid, but at the rate they're going most of what they'll encounter will either be mere curiousities or will turn them into a mummy.
Perhaps you should ensure there are some hieroglyphs around pretty near the entrance they can translate to warn them of the curse (if they choose to ignore that then I think they take their lumps personally...)
As for the brinkmanship, I think that would be easily handled (although a fair bit of work for you I guess) by haveing a third previously unknown group already there. (Alternatively it could be the main party of thayans - who were waiting for their friends to get back with the method of entry.)
Why not add a third party? Save yourself work and make them identical to the (now-defunct) Thayan group, but this is a backup team unknown to the one that they PCs wiped out.
My group also dealt with the Expeditionary (although left two alive after a truce), and went in without having any competition within. The rest of the Expeditionary did try to ambush them as they left though.
They do need to be aware of the curse - you might have the blindfolded guy wandering in their path, speaking to the horrors he witnessed. That's really all they need to know.
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We pick up the party preparing to enter the pyramid in the next session. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get some crucial information about the pyramid to them? What about recreating the sense of urgency, rivalry, and excitement otherwise created by having a rival party?
I don't want to punish my players for being tactically minded, scoundrels in both action and role-playing, and generally taking control of the adventure. But I'd hate for the PC's to miss out on the brilliant history behind this pyramid, but at the rate they're going most of what they'll encounter will either be mere curiousities or will turn them into a mummy.
Here's my opinion, feel free to ignore:
First of all, the history of any adventure, while nice and helpful, is mostly there for the DM. If the players just ignore it, so be it. I say let them try and figure out while being in there. You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Second: I wouldn't introduce another rival party. They worked hard to make sure they were to be left alone, and giving them another one will ignore that hard work. It sucks, but they figured out the plan and made life easier for them. I know I'd be annoyed if there was a never-ending bunch of bad guys that I couldn't stop.
Either that or introduce a rival party that isn't so hated, or perhaps filled with friendly competition. This way, they wouldn't be able to just wipe out another group (unless they are evil). It could also help to bring in some of the storyline, as the other group may share knowledge (perhaps after they were saved from a trap or a mummy).
Finally: If players decide not to learn about something before hand, and happen to perish or have a hard time of it, that's their decision. Not all parties have a Loremaster (or even someone literate) who'll figure out what's going on, and to truly make that knoledge have any worth, I feel (in my opinion) that you have to have some sort of consequences if it's not gleamed.
Like I said before: That's what I'd do. Good luck.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Second: I wouldn't introduce another rival party. They worked hard to make sure they were to be left alone, and giving them another one will ignore that hard work. It sucks, but they figured out the plan and made life easier for them. I know I'd be annoyed if there was a never-ending bunch of bad guys that I couldn't stop.
I agree. Introducing a new rival party would be an easy fix, but it'd really feel like a cheat to me.
However, one thought might be to introduce a new third party which is not an adventuring party and which has its own agenda regarding the tomb. Maybe it's a blue dragon, the descendant of the one entombed within, who is seeking his ancestor's treasure. Or, maybe some random predatory monster could see the pyramid and decide to start hunting there. It'd be tough to balance the monster right, but ideally, it should challenge the PCs and maybe even be something they can't defeat due to regeneration. Then, their only choice is to trap the monster within the tomb. Or, you could have a pack of monsters that employ hit-and-run tactics, but have enough intelligence to be susceptible to the runes. Then the PCs might drive off the monsters only to have some become mummified off-camera and return.
In terms of information, you could have some notes from prior expeditions found on the floor. That could deliver the info to your players without requiring the PCs to engage in diplomacy with NPCs.
Modera's post had me convinced... but then Sebastian had to chime in, and I can't be seen publically agreeing with the likes of him. So, um, yeah...
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The only thing I would have done differently is perhaps made the rival group from Westgate or Sembia. There are enough rat bastards in Sembia to use as an analogue to Cheliax, and Westgate has all of the evil you'd need.
I only say this because you indicated there was a Rashemen in the party, and Thayans and Rashemen, well, what happened happened for a reason...
;)
First, allow me to commend you for not attempting to railroad your party, the world doesn't have enough good GMs who let characters be.
While your party was 'tacticaly minded', they obviously weren't tactical enough since they didn't bother on documenting themselves regarding their target, so it's likely they'll pay the price for their sloppy modus operandi.
So no Neferet, that means that if the party has no linguist they won't be able to understand a thing once inside the pyramid (nor they'll be able to decipher the thayans' osirian scrolls), also that means that they aren't entitled to the proper Spellcraft check to recognize the Anti-life Shell glyph at the entrance (as they're written in the language you're using instead of ancient osirian, not draconic), so they'll be trapped unless either the party's spellcaster has a pretty mean Dispel Magic or they defeat either Cerulean's pet dragon or both the Radiant Pharaoh and the Pharaoh of Numbers.
While the rivalry element is pretty much lost IMHO (they wanted to skip it, so respect your players' wishes), If you still want to hook them into the adventure's background all you have to do is sprinkle some Comprehend Languages scrolls in the loot, be it in the Thayans' bodies or those of Imivus' late expedition, thay way they'll be able to translate both the auction's scrols and the walls in the pyramid. Having said this, if your -players- aren't interested in knowing, then nothing you do will make them want to and they'll run away from every bone you throw at them other than giving Tongues to the Radiant Pharaoh and turning her into an Author Tract which, given your player's proactive style, will be most unwelcome.
They do need to be aware of the curse - you might have the blindfolded guy wandering in their path, speaking to the horrors he witnessed. That's really all they need to know.
That's probably the way I will go. I am thinking of having a blindfolded old man who warns of the curse lurking outside. As a means of keeping with the flavor of the rest of the adventure, he will only remove his blindfold at night, to peer into the sky and look for Aucturn.
The only thing I would have done differently is perhaps made the rival group from Westgate or Sembia. There are enough rat bastards in Sembia to use as an analogue to Cheliax, and Westgate has all of the evil you'd need.
I only say this because you indicated there was a Rashemen in the party, and Thayans and Rashemen, well, what happened happened for a reason...
;)
Yes, in retrospect, you put a Wychlaran next to a Thayan, and you get what you deserve.
I picked Thayans because I wanted to play up the magic-hungry and deadly rival aspect of it. I had hoped the expedition would bloody the party's nose in a fairer fight earlier on so that the later inevitable confrontation would be more satisfying.
As it turns out, the only confrontation was very satisfying to the players.
First, allow me to commend you for not attempting to railroad your party, the world doesn't have enough good GMs who let characters be.
Thanks. As soon as the players bluffed their way into the Black Reliquary and ran for it I knew things were going to be different. What's rather amusing to me is that the party Scout (a true scoundrel) was going on about the mask at the museum being an obvious fake - without even once looking into it. The Crook Bearer was so impressed with this accidental truth that getting in to see the real mask was almost a given.
Sometimes players make something up that happens to be absolutely true.
I think a few comprehend language scrolls are the way to go. It gives them the opportunity without being heavy handed and, if they continue to ignore warnings and walls of heiroglyphics, they will meet a much deserved end.
Either that or introduce a rival party that isn't so hated, or perhaps filled with friendly competition. This way, they wouldn't be able to just wipe out another group (unless they are evil). It could also help to bring in some of the storyline, as the other group may share knowledge (perhaps after they were saved from a trap or a mummy).
Finally: If players decide not to learn about something before hand, and happen to perish or have a hard time of it, that's their decision. Not all parties have a Loremaster (or even someone literate) who'll figure out what's going on, and to truly make that knoledge have any worth, I feel (in my opinion) that you have to have some sort of consequences if it's not gleamed....
I think you're quite right. Another rival party would feel forced and would, simply put, crowd the already crowded pyramid. I think the good compromise are the various options I discussed in earlier comments and a half-mad survivor in the pyramid. That will add an interesting character for them to encounter, help recapture a bit of flavor of the earlier adventure, and not disrupt the original text.
Of course, additional suggestions are welcome. I think there are some great ideas here.
As it turns out, the only confrontation was very satisfying to the players.
Don't feel bad, my group went "CRUNCH" on Expeditionary bones. It was horrendously perfectly executed - half the expeditionary dead before they knew what was going on - and that wasn't even from spells.
I'd add a couple of locals, hired lackeys of the "Thayan Expeditionary" team. Expecting the Thayan team to rendezvous with them, they mistake the players' party for the Expeditionary. Wacky mistaken-identity hijinks ensue.
Players as fast on their feet as yours seem to be are likely to bluff their confused rivals, pumping them for information (and giving you the chance to supply them with whatever you think they need: comprehend languages scrolls, notes on the site's history and reputed curse, etc.).
Perhaps the lackeys were sent to abduct the blindfolded man and bring him to their allies at the pyramid.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and thoughts.
In the end, I felt that another party would be a bit of a cop-out and probably meet a similar fate to the original expediniary. Instead they encountered a few local guides and a captured Raegeros who helped fill them in on some of the details.
The run through the Pyramid was as engaging as I had hoped. The party was sufficiently worried about turning into a mummy to keep them from prying too deeply, but got enough of the history for the Pyramid to stand out as a dungeon.
No one was turned into a mummy, but the fact they couldn't take the river of gold with them broke a few hearts.
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I would assume, based upon the characters' actions, they are playing decidedly evil characters. Theft and blatant murder tends to define that alignment. It would be interesting to play up the murdered Thayans as perhaps good missionaries or whatever to make the players actually THINK before they kill and murder wantonly.
Dealing with a party of Chaotic Evil characters can be quite difficult. How do they handle the rarity of healing spells, btw?
Essentially, at this point I would scrap the original plot and rewrite the plot using elements already played out. I'd have them have a hard time with the glyphs at first, perhaps getting them to go back and do some research on them, but I suspect they would just try and power through the glyphs and worry about trying to work around them.
I'd try an make a new party of Thayan missionary explorers already at or arriving soon at the pyramid. They lament the disappearance and murders of their brethren, perhaps having a wake, where the PCs can witness, where they recall all the good deeds the martyred Thayans had performed. Perhaps the new party also comments how much more difficult the exploration will be without the linguists and experts.
Perhaps the CE characters will then return to the town and try and find some experts to help their exploration. Regardless, the original plot is shot to Kingdom Come.
IF by some weirdness the players have Good listed as their alignments, I would most assuredly have the Cleric's healing powers at the least be suspended until an Atonement is made.