I think I will complain about the art, though. Not because it's bad, but because it's the same art we've had for two years now. I'd have liked Paizo to have commissioned new art of the iconics for their appearance in the mega-awesome launch title of the PFRPG. Recycling artwork is for 4.0...
Wet T-Shirt Seoni FTW!
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How to bash the third preview... well, we could go with a few scenarios:
THE DEN BASH
The third iconic is made of paizil fael. It's exception-based design smells of suck and buhlmanism. She lasts two and a half rounds against my Druid/Expert/Malconvoker/Shadowspeaker of Shorkorsto/Shark with Friggin' Laser Beams. Seriously, if Paizo thinks they will succeed with a book which COMPLETETLY IGNORES my 89 page PDF "Book of Not Fael", well, it means Paizo is made of fael. Their only redeeming feature is that casting time of Silence is now 1 round, and that barely makes them better than Mearls School of Abject Design Fael.
THE 4E BASH
The third iconic shows everything that is wrong with previous editions. First of all, she doesn't have any cool flavour text like, "I am power and power is me". Second, it has far too much text, I got bored after the movement speed. Thirdly, her picture shows those things that adults call "boobs", and I'm not sure if such art policy extends our core competency in the target demographic. Lastly, no references to Shadowfey or Darkwild ! Really, Seoni is all about why last 30 years of D&D history are negligible and should be replaced by a swift shift of 3 squares using my daily power.
THE oWOD BASH
God kill me .. oh wait, I killed God so somebody else kill me, another preview of that dumb wargame for teen rednecks. So many numbers...my head hurts. It's all about rolling the stupid dice, where's her angst-ridden backstory ? Where is the bit where she gets raped by her vampire mother ? Or about how she little and insignificant she is next to an ancient werewolf or a primal ghost who both live on the same street ? And finally, where's the goddamn conspiracy story featuring cyborg assassin ninja demon hunter corporation from hell ? Beh ... cry me a river, I'm off to slash my wrists.
Very funny stuff. These sound just like the posts from those sites.
Not.
Enough.
Ponies.
(or Rainbows).
Or Lasers.
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The artwork is exploitive of women!
You know, I think. It’s been a long time since I talked to a woman, or saw one (in the flesh), or left my house. But some of the people who post replies to my blog write like they might be women. I think they’d feel exploited.
And she should have one more skill point than is listed. Everything else about the stat-block looks right, but this missing skill point demonstrates a lack of care in checking and editing in Paizo products that is truly shocking. In fact, I think this missing skill point is enough for me to not buy the PFRPG.
You’ve ruined it for me.
I’m leaving.
This is just ridiculous! This preview doesn't show me every single possible sorcerer character! Or that all of them are perfectly playable.
It hate it how a sorcerer with str 8 and cha 12 doesn't have a chance of at least 50% to overcome every obstacle of his CR or lower, regardless of what it is. Those guys should totally be able to wrestle down a tarrasque monk (if the CR is right) and defeat an iron golem with fire spells.
This is crap. Paizo is clearly out of their mind, why isn't the whole book in the preview? You guys suck!
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Every one of these complaints is dead on...even the ones that contradict each other.
However, I'd like to point out something even more disconcerting than the obviously poor quality of this yet-to-be-released sorcerer preview: Paizo's so-called "schedule" of one preview every Wednesday.
The fact that Paizo isn't posting more than one preview a week is a clear indication that they simply can't manage the kind of publication schedule required to produce a viable rules system with an associated campaign setting and support products.
Some of you may point to the apparent timeliness of previous publication releases, throwing out insignificant "facts" about how nearly every book they've put out for the past few years has been released on time, etc. We all know, however, that this frantic publication pace has simply been a ruse to draw customers away from other publishers. I'm here to tell you that it won't last.
Pretty soon, the shiny gold foil will start to peel off this gilded wombat...you mark my words! Mark my words, I say!
You forgot to put a tongue in cheek symbol there, Mothman. (i.e. :P )
Unless... of course... you are *not* joking?!? O_o
Sorry Purple Dragon Knight, Mothman can't respond to your post. He's gone.
Sorry Purple Dragon Knight, Mothman can't respond to your post. He's gone.
Mothmen are an urban legend, anyway!
Which brings me to another complaint for PFRPG! Why aren't there complete rules including stat blocks for every urband legend in there. Sure, we have the Mothman, the Chupacabra, and a cheap Jersey Devil ripoff, but THATS NOT ENUFF!
We need Gazebo stats, and Yeti, and Bigfoot, and Large Ghost Cat stats, and stats for Old Ladies That Put Their Cat In The Microwave To Dry Them, and Mobile Homes That Are Left To Drive Themselves And Go Off The Road And The Driver Gets A New One As Per Court Order and That Creepy Guy With a Hook For a Hand Who Knocks On Your Car Door With Your Fiances Severed Head.
And the Bermuda Triangle. And Aliens. With Anal Probes. And Crop Circles. And the Face On Mars.
And the Fake Moon Landing.
AND ELVIS! OMFG THE BOOK DOSNT HAF ELVIS!! IT HAS ELFS BUT NOT ELVIS!
THIS IS BULL SHIT! YOUR ALL STUPID IDIOTS! HOW CAN ANYONE TAKE THIS GAME SERIOUSLY????ß?ß??
MATE HAT OF FP KNOW NO LIMIT!!!!!!!!!111!1!
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Wet T-Shirt Seoni FTW!
However if she fights herself Reynolds will have have to do the artwork that would go with it, especially since it would show off her second favorite spell from her college school days. The spell I'm referring to is the never mentioned "Create Tub of Jello" which she learned after her repeated success of casting its predecessor, "Jello Shot." Surprisingly the later spell was a major contributor to her using the former for some strange reason and was often encouraged by her male classmates at frat parties.
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I'd reply to this, but I can't figure out whether you reacted to the innuendo. Frankly, it would be deeply disturbing if you did.Low fort save translates into low endurance.
How can you complain about me? :)Trust me I have enough endurance in me to keep going, besides when all is reveled not only it will show that I have the fortitude and also power to twart and destroy any foe.
In the end I can still use my spells, do you still need my services?
i Was talking about cleaning services.
Resistance
Is
Futile.
This thread is being assimilated.
i Was talking about cleaning services.
Ah, yes, I remember.
Well, I wasn't.
But I could still use your services. I tried a solution of my own, but it... overshot the mark. A bit. Well, that floor is very clean - what is left of it.
Do we have to create a new complaints thread when the preview comes out, or can we keep using this one?
A new one, obviously. It is important that we spread our complaints as far and as wide as possible.
In fact, to ensure optimal complaint radius (hereafter known as "whinespread"), we should probably post our complaints into unrelated threads, including the off-topic threads and Play by Post threads. The people will be grateful that we have brought our important concerns to their attention.
CR
My only complaint about the third preview is that it's not the fourth preview. I'm sick and tired of this whole doing things in numerical order idea. Why does it always have to be first, second, third, fourth, and so on. Use some originality, people! How about second, fourth, seventh, first, third?
I understand that Pathfinder is trying to maintain backwards compatibility with 3rd Edition, which also stubbornly refused to change the way we count. (Just look at its name, after all: 3rd Edition. Right after 2nd. Why not 22nd Edition?) However, I don't think it would cause that many conversion problems.
That's it then. I'm done with Pathfinder.
Mothmen are an urban legend, anyway!
Which brings me to another complaint for PFRPG! Why aren't there complete rules including stat blocks for every urband legend in there. Sure, we have the Mothman, the Chupacabra, and a cheap Jersey Devil ripoff, but THATS NOT ENUFF!
We need Gazebo stats, and Yeti, and Bigfoot, and Large Ghost Cat stats, and stats for Old Ladies That Put Their Cat In The Microwave To Dry Them, and Mobile Homes That Are Left To Drive Themselves And Go Off The Road And The Driver Gets A New One As Per Court Order and That Creepy Guy With a Hook For a Hand Who Knocks On Your Car Door With Your Fiances Severed Head.
Don't forget:
A Friend's Cousin, Who Knows A Move Which Kills You After Three Days;
The Mother Who Forgot Her Baby In The Freezer And Put Him In The Microwave To Defrost Him (a subspecie of the old lady and the cat);
and my favorite, The Biker Who Got Beheaded With A Nylon Thread Put Between Two Trees But Put His Head Back On His Neck And Rode Away.
Now, THAT would be a Bestiary !!!
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A new one, obviously. It is important that we spread our complaints as far and as wide as possible.In fact, to ensure optimal complaint radius (hereafter known as "whinespread"), we should probably post our complaints into unrelated threads, including the off-topic threads and Play by Post threads. The people will be grateful that we have brought our important concerns to their attention.
CR
Whinespread... I like it. It's like a spread, but with both the properties of an emanation or a burst... err... lamentation or tearburst, that is... :P
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My big complaint is the sticker price. It's too much! I demand that PFRPG be free to anyone who participated, even in a minor way, to the playtest portion of the game! Otherwise, it's just a cash grab!
BTW I still expect it to have top-notch graphic design, all-new, totally awesome art, and contain no errors of any kind, period.
(edit) and ponies!
(edit 2) and rules for kobold PC's as a core race
(edit 3) and everyone gets ice-cream when you pick up your free copy
(edit 4) I'm only half kidding about edit 2...:P
(edit 4) I'm only half kidding about edit 2...:P
You want half-kobolds? What madness is this!?
I love this thread. :)
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(edit 4) I'm only half kidding about edit 2...:PYou want half-kobolds? What madness is this!?
Half-kobolds? Probably in the race section after Ducks.
Which leads me to another complaint: the unseen third preview lacks full racial detail for Seoni! Any iconic character based preview should have a full write up of their race's abilities, particularly for a race a common and well known as human!
I mean, how am I supposed to know if a human can fly or burrow if you don't list their fly and burrow speeds! And vision! How am I otherwise to know if a human can see if the dark?
This completely unnecessary information I should already know must be spelled out in excruciating detail, otherwise her stat block is incomplete!
Boo! Hiss!
The preview depicts Seoni wearing clothes, which is offensive to Paizo's straight male audience. Hasn't the heterosexual male been dumped on enough? Must he endure another work that fails to cater totally to his prurient interest, whatever the cost to story, to coherence, and to good taste?
And it's offensive to women too, because it fails to objectify them! Can't a bone be thrown to the poor unobjectified women, who are so overlooked in our hobby's art, past and present?
Seoni, Seoni, Seoni. It's like they've shoved Ezren into a closet or something.Didn't you know?
The Wizards' Guild has a 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy.
Gods that so explains the cane. And he wasn't sleeping in that bathhouse he just didnt wast folks watching!
Probably in the race section after Ducks.
I hope you meant the section on "Viking Ducks". If there aren't Viking Ducks, then this is really going to stink.
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This completely unnecessary information I should already know must be spelled out in excruciating detail, otherwise her stat block is incomplete!
This! And QFT! And something else that people say on the internet instead of thinking for themselves! For Great Justice!
We need more rules for stuff like how long one can go without going to the bathroom based on ever-increasing Con check (or Fort save?) DCs and for diseases like foot fungus, halitosis and the heartbreak of psoriasis and for what sort of damage one inflicts with a battering ram or pitons or what sort of mechanical effects result when one flings a flask of writing ink in someone's face!
Moar rools, kplzthxbai.
We need more rules for stuff like how long one can go without going to the bathroom based on ever-increasing Con check (or Fort save?) DCs
I'd actually get a kick out of that.
"Oh sorry, but if you enter rage you might lose control of your bladder!"
To which most of my players would answer, "The better to shame them with!"
There's no way Seoni could have that many ranks in acrobatics unless you have failed to include my suggested 'breast size check' penalty. I posted extensively on the penalties that Seoni would have performing any acrobatics maneuver and provided a formula for determining penalties based on cupsize for all PCs.
It took me three months of hanging out in the gym during Phys. Ed. to come up with these calculations and I suffered three black eyes for it. If Paizo doesn't appreciate the hard work we put in, why should we bother!?!?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Seriously - imagine a scenario where Seoni and her clone are trapped in an anti-magic field (which they should be immune to, being spellcasters!). Suddenly Seoni's Clone makes a grapple check against Seoni...
[[Spends several minutes imagining Seoni and her clone engaged in a grapple.]]
Wait, what were we talking about again?
How broken the grease spell would be, in that scenario, with both of the Seoni's all slicked up and sliding around, oozing out of their tiny outfits...
Nerf grease!
Exactly. Since she could make more money doing that for an audience than by crawling around in dungeons, why would she bother adventuring? I expected that the designers intended to fix the major problems with the game to make it at least playable. Obviously broken is still obviously broken.
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The new Seoni has a bloodline! The 3.5 Seoni never had a bloodline. This completely ruins backwards compatibility, absolutely every item of my extensive, many thousands of dollars worth of 3.5 gaming material is now rendered obsolete!
That's an excellent point, Mothman! Hold the phone...didn't you say you were leaving the boards because the non-existent phony third preview complaints concerning exploitation of women (or was it insufficient phony exploitation of women? I forget.)
And where is the thread announcing you were leaving the boards? If you don't start this thread, how can we WhinespreadTM to that thread if you don't start it? Please correct this grievous error ASAP. Thank you.
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The new Seoni has a bloodline! The 3.5 Seoni never had a bloodline. This completely ruins backwards compatibility, absolutely every item of my extensive, many thousands of dollars worth of 3.5 gaming material is now rendered obsolete!That's an excellent point, Mothman! Hold the phone...didn't you say you were leaving the boards because the non-existent phony third preview complaints concerning exploitation of women (or was it insufficient phony exploitation of women? I forget.)
And where is the thread announcing you were leaving the boards? If you don't start this thread, how can we WhinespreadTM to that thread if you don't start it? Please correct this grievous error ASAP. Thank you.
** spoiler omitted **
In the grand tradition of people announcing they are leaving the boards for good, I waited a day before posting again.
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In the grand tradition of people announcing they are leaving the boards for good, I waited a day before posting again.
Just checking, here, but did you at least stop by the boards once during that day...not to post, but to check and see what people were saying about your announcement in the vain hope that someone might beg you to stay?
Even though I've not had the chance to actually run Seoni's stats in a playtest session... I will admit that I'm already disappointed in her overall performance against a combative setting I designed especially for her. In the setting I equipped Seoni with a spiked chain, which she is not proficient with, and had her take on 11 goblins, 4 1st level Commoners, 2 2nd level Experts that specialized in herbalism, 3 dogs, 2 trained monkeys, 1 toad, 5 dire rats, 1 tiny monstrous spider, a unicorn, 4 harpies, 8 rust monsters, a couple of trolls that had picked up 9 levels in the fighter class, the re-animated skeleton of a house cat, and a 20th level wizard riding on the back of a huge red dragon. I was using a homemade battle map incased in a 8 x10 picture frame and as there was not room left for Seoni's mini, I gave her a handful of various penalities that I made up off the top of my head. Seoni died the first round.
I feel that quite honestly, this is pathetic and shows a serious shortfall in Pathfinder's rules.... especially in the fact that I was not able to find a proper explanation for the rather odd combinations of combatants that I personally picked out and mixed together without any rhyme or reason my own self. If this Pathfinder RPG is really worth its salt then it should be able to instantly explain anything stupid that I personally choose to do. It is all Paizo's fault that I spent three hours prepping for a one round playtest for something that has not been released yet.
I'm furious.
There's no way Seoni could have that many ranks in acrobatics unless you have failed to include my suggested 'breast size check' penalty. I posted extensively on the penalties that Seoni would have performing any acrobatics maneuver and provided a formula for determining penalties based on cupsize for all PCs.
It took me three months of hanging out in the gym during Phys. Ed. to come up with these calculations and I suffered three black eyes for it. If Paizo doesn't appreciate the hard work we put in, why should we bother!?!?
I think that the reason that they have not included the "Breast Check" modifier would be because they did not also (for game "balance" reasons) want to factor in the social [::nudge, nudge, wink, wink::] bonuses that she would be entitiled to while performing acrobatics.
My big complaint is the sticker price. It's too much! I demand that PFRPG be free to anyone who participated, even in a minor way, to the playtest portion of the game! Otherwise, it's just a cash grab!
BTW I still expect it to have top-notch graphic design, all-new, totally awesome art, and contain no errors of any kind, period.
(edit) and ponies!
(edit 2) and rules for kobold PC's as a core race
(edit 3) and everyone gets ice-cream when you pick up your free copy
(edit 4) I'm only half kidding about edit 2...:P
Personally, I think that if Paizo was really serious about this whole Pathfinder thing then they would only naturally provide rules for otyughs as a core PC race. I've been itching to play an otyugh for years and I want to advance by level rather than by size/Hit Dice.... and I want to be an otyugh paladin at that.
Now who wants me to cook dinner for their next gaming session?
I think that the reason that they have not included the "Breast Check" modifier would be because they did not also (for game "balance" reasons) want to factor in the social [::nudge, nudge, wink, wink::] bonuses that she would be entitiled to while performing acrobatics.Kinda like an instant, action based Diplomacy check?
Kinda like an instant, action based Diplomacy check?
I think that the reason that they have not included the "Breast Check" modifier would be because they did not also (for game "balance" reasons) want to factor in the social [::nudge, nudge, wink, wink::] bonuses that she would be entitiled to while performing acrobatics.
Correct. Though as a GM I would allow subsituting a Bluff check in many situations.
Talking about ducks (some of you mentioned ducks. I think. Maybe it was one of the voices and they learned how to post here)
I started playing Vampire Bloodlines again the other day, with the newest community patch. They incorporated backgrounds for each clan.
One for Malkavians is Ninja. Which gives you extra melee and brawl points but never lets you take points in ranged weapons, because they are anathema to your code. And ducks. Ducks are anathema, too.
What I'm saying is I demand backgrounds like this in PF. I don't care that the book is off to the printers, if they really cared about the game, they'd stop it all, put that stuff in, and still get everything done on time!
One more thing: This book better be hand-printed on recycling paper, using environmentally friendly inks.
There's no way Seoni could have that many ranks in acrobatics
Oh, she can be quite.... flexible.
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Talking about ducks (some of you mentioned ducks. I think. Maybe it was one of the voices and they learned how to post here)
I started playing Vampire Bloodlines again the other day, with the newest community patch. They incorporated backgrounds for each clan.
One for Malkavians is Ninja. Which gives you extra melee and brawl points but never lets you take points in ranged weapons, because they are anathema to your code. And ducks. Ducks are anathema, too.
What I'm saying is I demand backgrounds like this in PF. I don't care that the book is off to the printers, if they really cared about the game, they'd stop it all, put that stuff in, and still get everything done on time!
One more thing: This book better be hand-printed on recycling paper, using environmentally friendly inks.
There's no way Seoni could have that many ranks in acrobaticsOh, she can be quite.... flexible.
Yes i can be ^^, as varisian dancer and performer i am adept in many other things too.
Yes i can be ^^, as varisian dancer and performer i am adept in many other things too.
Don't I know that.
Well, I guess you didn't recognise me without my jester armour and facepaint.
If this Pathfinder RPG is really worth its salt then it should be able to instantly explain anything stupid that I personally choose to do.
Utter. Total. Win. This sentence perfectly summarizes all of the ungrounded complaints and comments I've seen all around the internet in respect to Pathfinder. Well done.
CR
If this Pathfinder RPG is really worth its salt then it should be able to instantly explain anything stupid that I personally choose to do.Utter. Total. Win. This sentence perfectly summarizes all of the ungrounded complaints and comments I've seen all around the internet in respect to Pathfinder. Well done.
CR
Who are you calling ungrounded, mister ears? I think it's important that my character has a good chance of pulling something off. No matter what that is.
A rogue 30 who's pathetically weak (say, str 16 and no strength boosts) should totally have a 50/50 chance of wrestling an enlarged tarrasque fighter 10 with defensive maneuvers, improved grapple, base strength 60, a +5 strength book and a +12 strength item to the ground. If that's stupid, I don't wanna be smart!
I mean, he has strength 16. 16!!! That's a lot for a rogue 1, and levels dont matter as long as the CR is right. right?
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I think that the reason that they have not included the "Breast Check" modifier
That's just sexist! Valeros doesn't have a 'Ball Check' modifier to his Acrobatics to represent mechanical difficulties stemming from oversized sexual characteristics! Or are they suggesting that he's a eunuch or something?