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Well, this is it. Im trying out 4th edition. This summer, with my little brother and his friends. My own little campaign set in ustalav. The general theme is going to be vampire hunting/general monster hunting. But, I'm finding myself a little stymied, in terms of monsters. I just dont have a good feel for the realities of Ustalav.
I understand varisia top to bottom. Trolls and giants in the mountains. Goblins on the coast. Horrible things skulking in the thassilonian tombs. The occasional elder thing from beyond reality. Frog-men and body snatchers.
But what exactly is ustalav like? It seems civilized and settled; there are cities and towns aplenty, with only a few things like haunted castles and some messed up stuff around gallowspire. But beyond that, I dont know. Is the place really overrun with vampires? If you walk down the road, how likely is it that a wraith or zombie will eat your face? What are the towns like? It seems to be kind of caught in a stagnat time period compared to the rest of avistan.
How much of a problem are the Orcs of Belkzen? Are there bandits? Is there a militia, or an army? Something about the cities description reminds me of 1600s germany, or regency england (or at least be blackadder portrayal thereof. Or at least, the damn romantic poets lounging about)
Numeria is right next door. Do gearmen, the Technic League, or barbarians with lazers crop up alot?
I'm just having a hard time trying to justify 4th edition's assumed playstyle with the setting I want to use.
Any thoughs?
But what exactly is ustalav like?
I've seen the authors say in various posts that Golarion had a design goal of allowing pretty much any type of campaign to fit somewhere. Ustalav is where people can fit Ravenloft type games. If you go with that direction, you won't be far off.
Undead. Lots of them. It's the easiest feature of Ustalav to bring out and use.
It seems civilized and settled; there are cities and towns aplenty, with only a few things like haunted castles and some messed up stuff around gallowspire. But beyond that, I dont know. Is the place really overrun with vampires?
In comparison with the rest of Golarion, yes. Such that people can't eek out their lives? No.
If you walk down the road, how likely is it that a wraith or zombie will eat your face?
Don't go out of the towns after night fall. It's just not safe. Closer to the larger towns and especially in the Palantinates, things won't be quite as dangerous though.
What are the towns like?
Small, huddled, suspicious and grim.
It seems to be kind of caught in a stagnat time period compared to the rest of avistan.
Yes! Awesome! This is exactly how Ustalav should feel. That's exactly the feel of the old gothic novels of the 19th century.
Take for example, the original Dracula, written by Bram Stoker and published in 1897. It starts with an English solicitor (lawyer) named Harker leaving the modern world of England to travel to Count Dracula's castle in Transylvania. There he encounters a backwards place that appears to be stuck in the past. His rational, modern mind refuses to accept the backwards supernatural place that's right before his eyes.
I'm just having a hard time trying to justify 4th edition's assumed playstyle with the setting I want to use.
Any thoughs?
If you check out the 4th ed DMG, you'll find lots of stuff about playing 4th ed with differing play styles. It'll work fine. Don't worry about "implied" play style.
Ustalav is also the closest thing in Golarion to the implied/default setting of 4th edition. The towns and other civilized places are like points of light in a grim and gothic land.
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But what exactly is ustalav like? It seems civilized and settled; there are cities and towns aplenty, with only a few things like haunted castles and some messed up stuff around Gallowspire. But beyond that, I dont know. Is the place really overrun with vampires? If you walk down the road, how likely is it that a wraith or zombie will eat your face? What are the towns like? It seems to be kind of caught in a stagnat time period compared to the rest of Avistan.
How much of a problem are the Orcs of Belkzen? Are there bandits? Is there a militia, or an army? Something about the cities description reminds me of 1600s germany, or regency england (or at least be blackadder portrayal thereof. Or at least, the damn romantic poets lounging about)
Numeria is right next door. Do gearmen, the Technic League, or barbarians with lazers crop up alot?
I'm just having a hard time trying to justify 4th edition's assumed playstyle with the setting I want to use.
Any thoughs?
Ustalav exhibits features from a variety of European countries circa 1700-1800, primarily drawing inspiration from the best of gothic fiction. Sleepy mountain villages, insular hamlets, fog-shrouded cities, and moldering castles all feel at home in the country, depending on the county. For the most part, Ustalav is pretty well settled, but lacks unity and effective infrastructure, leaving many small villages to fend for themselves away from larger (though sometimes not much large) country seats. Thus, I actually think the points of light campaign model could work pretty well with Ustalav.
As for the monster behind every corner angle, heck no. The horror of Ustalav is best employed subtly. While villagers and gypsies tell folktales and hold superstitions regarding scary creatures in the night as they cross themselves against the evil eye, few Ustalavic natives have any experience with monsters, and the line between actual creatures and legends is often blurred. While peasants might obsess over convoluted funerary rites to assure their dead loved ones don't return as vampires, this is no different than some traditions in eastern Europe. Think of the entire region as a Poe novel, it's dark and moody, but that doesn't necessarily mean haunted - it might make you think it's haunted - but when the evil does reveal itself, it's often in a common, unexpected, or limited form. Remember, "Gothic" means both horrific and romantic, with an emphasis on mood. Bluntly throwing ghosts, werewolves, and other trappings of such gothic tales greatly lessens their dramatic effectiveness. I think you'll find that terrible things, employed sparingly, feel all the more terrible. Afterall, an army of undead standing on a field is somehow less horrible than finding the corpse of the milner's wife returned from the grave to coddle her daughter once more.
As for the stagnacy, that's a good way to put it. The land is fractured and disordered with a weak ruler and insular counties. No one really coopperates and the rulers, even the supposedly more enlightenied ones, have little interest in or ability to rule. Thus, the majority of the people live dour, tradition-hobbled lives. Even though many of the inspirations for this land draw from the 17 and 18 hundreds, the techonlogy level remains little different from that in the south, and often times even less so.
This is a military, with a small army - little better than thugs - and a small but better disciplined navy, though both are mostly held in Caliphas. The counties are expected and even mandated to defend themselves. Canterwall defends against the orcs of Belkzen - a constant fear - with their rag-tag militia, though they'd be little mach for a full invasion. Barstoi has perhaps the most elite militia of the country, defending effectively against barbarian incursions. Varno maintains a number of boarder fortresses along the border with Razmiran, along with an untested militia - though the machinations of the county's leader probably does more to keep foreign enemies at bay than the region's strength of arms. Amaans too holds a competent milita, an order of dragoons - in which Count Galdana takes a vested interest - who patrol the realm and boarder lands like wandering, if occasionally lecherous, knights. Most of the other countries are protected by their geography.
Bandits are a problem, especially in the less organized counties like Canterwall, Ardeal, and Odranto.
The technological element of Numeria is overplayed and not so pervasive that every barbarian has a raygun and flying saucer. Most of Numeria is viewed as a land of savages and witchery, to be avoided and mistrusted at best and disposed of like wild dogs at worst.
Also, here are the general - in some cases VERY general - cultural inspirations for each county:
Amaans: 1700s Austria
Ardeal: Waning version of 1700's France
Barstoi: Idealized totalitarian rural Germany, with a Puritan vibe
Canterwall: 1800s rural England
Caliphas: 1800s urban England - especially London
The Furrows: Ruined post World War I Belgium
Lozeri: 1700s rural France
Odranto: Waning Italian fiefdoms
Sinaria: 1800s Paris, with a dash of 1800's U.S. Louisiana
Ulcazar: Secluded Alpine monasteries
Varno: 1600s rural Italy
Versex: 1800s declining rural England and U.S. Northeast
Vieland: 1700s Switzerland
Virlych: Cursed D&D wilderness
Hope this helps!
Don't go out of the towns after night fall. It's just not safe. Closer to the larger towns and especially in the Palantinates, things won't be quite as dangerous though.
Regardless of the actual danger in any area I suspect this is true. Ustalav is not a busy place - outside the cities - after dark.
There he encounters a backwards place that appears to be stuck in the past. His rational, modern mind refuses to accept the backwards [sometimes] supernatural place that's right before his eyes.
Yes. Perfect. Though, interestingly, I didn't really put in a direct Transylvania analog. Huh...
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Thanks for the replies.
Firstly: Numeria. I know that there isnt that much tech. I just like the idea of an encounter with a tribe of raiders, with the chief having some sort of "lightning stick." Just the Chief, and its treated as all rare and precious, not dime-a-dozen.
I think I now realize the main problem I was having. Ustalav has a vibe of being "backwards," but the tropes used in it evoke a time period ahead of the "modern" south. There isn't anything wrong with this, mind you, just my pre-conceived notions getting in the way.
At least I have confirmation that I can use annoying romantic poets without them being out of place.
I really appreciate the breakdowns of each county; those should be very useful.
Now, the problem I had was fitting in encounters. spending too much time in Korvosa and Riddleport (there's always someone waiting to shank you, or a shingles creature out for your blood), the Darklands, or In the Kodars means that I've become used to running encounters in a sort of Agressive sense. Trouble finds the PCs, know what I mean? The landscape and denizens are actively hostile or at least engaging. Drow cities have touchy fleshwarps and demons walking the streets. Ustalav, on the other hand, is insular and forbidding. the PCs are going to have to dig just below the surface to find their adventure.
This means going back to a more "traditional" style, rather than the AP active engagement. Barring mysteries and investigative adventures, Combat happens in Dungeons, that the PCs have to seek out. The kill-squads of different varieties of Undead that 4th ed more-or-less dictates for this sort of setting aren't going to be wandering the countryside. I'll up the quiet creep factor in the cities, and go more heavily into political machinations.
Frankly, the big problem with writing your own material is that you have to actively fight the urge to write dungeon-crawls, since its much easier than being creative or having challenging plot events. this has ever been a temptation of D&D, and 4th makes it even worse, since there is so much focus on encounter design, right down to the statblocks. A given monster write-up contains only info for running it in combat, with next to no info about it's history, motivations, or ecology. That just means that its up to your own creativity to fill in the blanks, based on previous editions and your own material. Its not that 4th makes it harder to not write dungeon crawls, it just makes it easier to forget about the world beyond the battle grid.
Ideas I have so far for adventure hooks.
Main villain will be agent of whispering tyrant/ the tyrant himself. He has offered the Conte de Triac the promise of a Cure for Vampirism, in exchange for access to the Count's resources. While tar-baphon himself is bound, his undying servants can still exert his will, and Ustalav could easily be brought under their control with some clever politicking. Once ustalav is in political shambles, they can bring out the big necromancy magic. Result: the old days come back. Wraiths and Zombies. Everywhere.
1st adventure features the PCs as aspiring monster hunters, on their way to a town reportedly dealing with a vampire preying on the populace. When they arrive, however, it turns out the situation has gotten much worse, and they have bit off much more than they can chew: There are lots of vampires. Too many damn vampires.
Assuming their sucess, they come to the attention of the ruler of county Ordranto, who becomes a benefactor NPC to the group. He uses them as hired goons dealing with various problem areas, as well as delicate political matters. Some missions are important and just, but others are for petty reasons, or poorly-conceived. While a fun guy to be around, Ordranto is not a very good ruler.
General ideas include:
Frankenstein-style abandoned laboratory castle full of old, failed experiments and so forth.
Investigative Adventure featuring a Vampire Muse (Open Grave)
Tax collection.
Having to go undercover as bandits to take out a particularly clever chieftain.
Having to act as intermediaries in Ordranto's search for a suitable wife. Delivering letters and so forth. I'm sure you can guess where this would go.
The Unfamiliar Ground dungeon adventure, converted to 4th with the goblins replaced with Orcs. I've been itching to use it for a while now.
The Conte Triac will show up as another employer NPC, portrayed as a cool, stylish Alucard-esque badass I'm hoping the party will like immensely. Yes, there is later going to be a big reveal with him as a vampire and behind the recent s*!! storms.
Hey, its not the job of a DM to be original, these are the early planning stages, and these players arent exceptionally discerning.
Regardless of the actual danger in any area I suspect this is true. Ustalav is not a busy place - outside the cities - after dark.
A fear of the night is something our electric lights have taught us to forget. Add in even the remote chance that a real werewolf or vampire might be lurking in the dark and who in their right mind would go out after dark?
There he encounters a backwards place that appears to be stuck in the past. His rational, modern mind refuses to accept the backwards [sometimes] supernatural place that's right before his eyes.Yes. Perfect. Though, interestingly, I didn't really put in a direct Transylvania analog. Huh...
To be perfectly honest, there's not a lot of published material for Ustalav yet (well, I've only seen stuff up through the 2nd adventure path, so if there is and I missed it, definitely let me know what product to get). All I've read is the Campaign Setting, the Gazateer and the first two adventure paths. Entire cities are summed up with a paragraph and regions with a few more.
By this, I mean, that none of us can know about Ustalav to a degree that you do at the moment. Even though we want to. :D
And by that, I mean that we will naturally fill in the gaps by inserting things from our own experience with the gothic horror genre. I bet a lot of people will see Transylvania in Ustalav without a direct analogue being present.
Given James Jacob's comments about every type of game you might run with PFRPG (or any rules I guess) has a home in Golarion even if it hasn't been fleshed out yet, I assumed that Ustalav was the Ravenloft analogue much like Numeria is the place to run sci-fantasy, the Great Beyond for Planescape style games, the Cinderlands for desolate Dark Sun style games, Kataphesh for Al Qadim, Low magic high tech fantasy in Alkenstar, Land of the Linnorn Kings for norse epics and so on.
By this, I mean, that none of us can know about Ustalav to a degree that you do at the moment. Even though we want to. :D
Oh dude, I totally understand, which is why I tend to go on rambles about the country on here. Hopefully we can fix that in the next year or two here...
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In a land gripped by superstition and fear (much of it well deserved!) the greatest danger to the newcomer is going to be the insular and reactionary locals. Some might be in the grip of native badness (the 'Innsmouth look' might be common among the villagers), others might simply have legends that foreigners with red hair are cursed with lycanthropy or something (and oh look, the party bard is a ginger!). Even if nothing at all supernatural is going on in the area, the local legends might cause the party to be blamed for something gruesome that occurs just after they arrive. Turns out some local shut-in has always hated the pretty girl who spurned him and married his brother, and takes the arrival of the party of strangers as an opportunity to murder his sister-in-law, his brother and their son, leaving behind 'evidence' that a vampire or a werewolf or something did it, then encouraging his townsfolk to throw out / seek justice from the 'tainted outsiders' who slew his 'beloved brother and his family.'
Back in the day in Europe, it was commonplace for gypsy wanderers to be blamed for everything that went missing in communities they visited, and every farmer's daughter who'd gotten 'in trouble' with her boyfriend knew that she'd 'get away with it' if she blamed it on those no-good gypsies! Ustalav would be the place where the visiting party would be the 'no good gypsies,' and anything out of the ordinary occuring during their visit would be blamed on their arrival (and various grudge-holding or 'in trouble' townsfolk would happily arrange events to make it seem like the strangers in town are responsible for their own mischief!).
The twist is to turn it into a 'boy who cried wolf' story. The townsfolk happily run the party out of town, only to have to beg for their aid when *real* werewolves show up!
A fear of the night is something our electric lights have taught us to forget.
Not quite forget. Never quite forget. Sure, the Light is only a flick of the switch away, but that's just within our cities and towns and villages. Have your car break down during the night, or have a power outage, and you're reacquainted with the darkness real quick.
Of course, light is one of those things you never miss until it's gone. Your average city dweller - or even your average village dweller in many regions - just doesn't know what darkness is. Sure, they know that when you take a walk at night, visibility is reduced, and they know a dark chamber. But that's not the real deal.
But have a power outage in a starless night during new moon and you'll find out what darkness really is.
Add in even the remote chance that a real werewolf or vampire might be lurking in the dark and who in their right mind would go out after dark?
I have done more of my fair share of being out after dark. Going to some party, or just to the pub, and then back home. I'm not quite the type to party all night long, even if the pubs were open that long, and I won't drive home after that, since it's quite probable I had something to drink. And getting a cab for a couple of kilometres? Waste of money, plus I'm not a wuss.
Besides, for most people in western civilisation, the idea that there might really be monsters is ridiculous.
Look at stories like Vampire: the Masquerade/Requiem or the Dresden Files. If there are creatures like that around, they have learned the rules: They can't walk around in our cities too openly, they have to hide themselves. But often, they can hide in plain sight, and the human conviction that monsters do not exist is a great help to them.
Jodah, I think that Expedition to Castle Ravenloft might be a good book for you to peruse. Although 3.5-edition, it is very much in the 4E encounter mindset of linking cool combat encounters together. This may be one of the more useful adventures that I've purchased in the past several years. I've found that big pieces of the story can be lifted whole cloth--such as the werewolves, or the witches summoning an ancient evil--and dropped into my 3.5 games. I can't see why they wouldn't port over fairly well to 4E as well.
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Well, this is it. Im trying out 4th edition. This summer, with my little brother and his friends. My own little campaign set in ustalav. The general theme is going to be vampire hunting/general monster hunting. But, I'm finding myself a little stymied, in terms of monsters. I just dont have a good feel for the realities of Ustalav.
I understand varisia top to bottom. Trolls and giants in the mountains. Goblins on the coast. Horrible things skulking in the thassilonian tombs. The occasional elder thing from beyond reality. Frog-men and body snatchers.
But what exactly is ustalav like? It seems civilized and settled; there are cities and towns aplenty, with only a few things like haunted castles and some messed up stuff around gallowspire. But beyond that, I dont know. Is the place really overrun with vampires? If you walk down the road, how likely is it that a wraith or zombie will eat your face? What are the towns like? It seems to be kind of caught in a stagnat time period compared to the rest of avistan.
How much of a problem are the Orcs of Belkzen? Are there bandits? Is there a militia, or an army? Something about the cities description reminds me of 1600s germany, or regency england (or at least be blackadder portrayal thereof. Or at least, the damn romantic poets lounging about)
Numeria is right next door. Do gearmen, the Technic League, or barbarians with lazers crop up alot?
I'm just having a hard time trying to justify 4th edition's assumed playstyle with the setting I want to use.
Any thoughs?
My first thought reading it is "make it up for yourself". Don't wait for official statements, and don't worry about remaining within the confines of what Golarion is in someone else's head. Try to be creative, and build your own Ustalav for you and your players.
You might listen to your players feedback, or let the setting detail itself as need be through actual play and come up with stuff on the fly that you keep track of on a notebook, or you might fish like here for some opinions on the web and then detail the setting top to bottom between sessions, but my bottom line is this: make Ustalav your setting. Answer the questions according to your own tastes, needs, wants and imagination. The campaign will be better for it.
Ustalav exhibits features from a variety of European countries circa 1700-1800, primarily drawing inspiration from the best of gothic fiction.
Can you suggest any books for inspiration?
Your average city dweller - or even your average village dweller in many regions - just doesn't know what darkness is. Sure, they know that when you take a walk at night, visibility is reduced, and they know a dark chamber. But that's not the real deal.
I grew up in the middle of nowhere in Canada and definitely know what you're talking about. Ice on the power lines on a cloudy night and bam-- total darkness. Better have those candles and a heat source.
Besides, for most people in western civilisation, the idea that there might really be monsters is ridiculous.
Right, but imagine you find out that it's all wrong. Like Harker traveling to Transylvania to discover that monsters are real. Having that ridicule for the idea of real monsters being deeply shattered.
The typical resident of Ustalav, unless (s)he lives in one of the larger settlements, is going to want to avoid the wilderness at night as much as possible.
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Can you suggest any books for inspiration?
Ustalav exhibits features from a variety of European countries circa 1700-1800, primarily drawing inspiration from the best of gothic fiction.
Horace Walpole's 'The Castle of Otranto', naturally (this novel is the first Gothic novel). Then some "obvious" ones: Mary Shelley's 'Frankenstein', Bram Stoker's 'Dracula', Robert Louis Stevenson's 'Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde', Oscar Wilde's 'The Picture of Dorian Gray' and Ann Radcliffe's 'The Mysteries of Udolpho'. Also, let's not forget the great master Edgar Allan Poe's novels and short stories, and I would even include H.P. Lovecraft's stories of the Chtulhu mythos as potential sources of inspiration for supernatural horror. I also would heartily recommend the marvelous 'Gormenghast' trilogy by Mervyn Peake and Shirley Jackson's 'The Haunting of Hill House'.
There are many little-known authors who wrote Gothic fiction and tales of supernatural terror, but those are some of the "big names" off the top of my head. Hope that helps!
EDIT: This also depends on how much emphasis you wish to put on "mood" in your campaigns; for example, 'Gormenghast' probably does not work well if you're looking for action-based horror in your portrayal of Ustalav, but it is a masterpiece in terms of setting mood and its portrayal of a large cast of interesting and macabre characters and, of course, the vast and gloomy Castle Gormenghast.
Can you suggest any books for inspiration?
Hah. Yes.
Jodah, I think that Expedition to Castle Ravenloft might be a good book for you to peruse.
Agh, Bleck, Ugh, Ooof, Bleck, Patooie, Bleck, Bleck. No. Go with the 1983 original or go home. Completely - COMPLETELY - different feels. You can probably find a copy online. (This commentary speaks nothing toward of the new version's easy of 4E play, it is fully the opinion of a fanatical Ravenloft grognard.)
Can you suggest any books for inspiration?Hah. Yes.
Jodah, I think that Expedition to Castle Ravenloft might be a good book for you to peruse.Agh, Bleck, Ugh, Ooof, Bleck, Patooie, Bleck, Bleck. No. Go with the 1983 original or go home. Completely - COMPLETELY - different feels. You can probably find a copy online. (This commentary speaks nothing toward of the new version's easy of 4E play, it is fully the opinion of a fanatical Ravenloft grognard.)
Not a fan of the White Wolf interpretaion?
Not a fan of the White Wolf interpretaion?
I'm a fan of the Sword & Sorcery product line for Ravenloft. I have every book they published. I thought they nailed it, but I'm not as ancient of a Ravenloft Grognard, having only started my time with D&D with the release of BECM(I) and then going on to 2nd Ed AD&D.
If you come across a copy of any of the White Wolf Ravenloft books (perhaps on eBay or at a used book store or something), I'd recommend them.
If there is room left on the reading list, I would recommend the following:
Fall of the House of Usher, Edgar Allen Poe
The Turn of the Screw, Henry James
In a Glass Darkly, Sheridan Le Fanu
If you are inclined toward more romance, I imagine Wuthering Heights or Jane Eyre would fit the bill. I vastly prefer the former, if I have to choose, solely because of Heathcliff.
Robert W. Chambers The King in Yellow is also worthwhile, especially for the proto-Lovecraftian themes.
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Thanks for the recommended reading. Luckily, Ive already got Frankenstien under my belt, and All of lovecraft's better stuff (mountains, innsmouth, ect). We went through Usher back in high school, but that was probably a crappy abbreviated text.
Time to get some hardcopy Poe and Wilde et al from the local library, and DL me some ravenloft.
Yaarrrrr.
Not a fan of the White Wolf interpretaion?
Specifically I was referring to interpretations of the original adventure.
As for the Art Haus stuff, I think it started strong and even drew nicely from many of the fan elements from Kargatane.com, but by the end low production values and some really strange decisions made it not feel like Ravenloft to me anymore. I think it fell into two traps that I never want Ustalav and other aspects of Golarion to fall into: detailing so much that mysteries and the horrific become mere trivia, and overdoing the "evil." By the end, Ravenloft wasn't telling horror stories - I think the last Ravenloft adventure was in the 2nd ed. days - it was mostly explaining the back stories of old villains or lands, often in a manner that felt disjointed from their origins. At the same time, the new material made the entire land seem so pervasively, overwhelmingly evil that the horror lost its subtlety. If everyplace is evil and scary, who can tell? Just like how a blind person can't tell it's dark because they can't see light, you can't be afraid of something if everything everywhere is frightening all the time. Sure, Ravenloft always highlighted the evil aspects, but at some point, it began to feel over done. At least, to me it did. By the fifth Ravenloft Gazetteer, I had pretty much signed out.
But, on the up side, falling out of love with the treatment of my favorite campaign setting taught me a lot about what to do and what not to do when it comes to horror RPG settings. So I tend to be pretty delicate when it comes to my pet country.
Sheridan Le Fanu
Good call, and my current pet author. I've been working my way through all of his horror stories for the past several months. Great stuff!
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Agh, Bleck, Ugh, Ooof, Bleck, Patooie, Bleck, Bleck. No. Go with the 1983 original or go home. Completely - COMPLETELY - different feels. You can probably find a copy online. (This commentary speaks nothing toward of the new version's easy of 4E play, it is fully the opinion of a fanatical Ravenloft grognard.)
and more than never Wes... I salute you!
House of Strahd (snif I tried to win the auction for the original one... but too much money in the pot :S) is really a marvelous experience... 2nd Edition Ravenloft has always had a soft spot in my cold heart
Not a fan of the White Wolf interpretaion?
Expedition isn't White Wolf.
I think it fell into two traps that I never want Ustalav and other aspects of Golarion to fall into: detailing so much that mysteries and the horrific become mere trivia, and overdoing the "evil."
This is a completely fair synopsis of the negatives of the WW/Arthaus stuff. Everything does get really spelled out.
As for the overdoing the evil I got the sense that if you had everything detailed going on at once, it ceased to be gothic horror and became almost a "horror apocalypse" setting instead.
But, on the up side, falling out of love with the treatment of my favorite campaign setting taught me a lot about what to do and what not to do when it comes to horror RPG settings. So I tend to be pretty delicate when it comes to my pet country.
Actually, I think that this (fair) criticism of the direction Ravenloft went into is the most informative things I've read yet about Ustalav. And that being that the horror elements are dialed back for Ustalav, so that they are actually scary. Sort of an increase the intensity but decrease the frequency sort of thing.
To bring this back to 4th edition specific stuff, it seems that if you want to find an analogue to the "points of light" idea in Ustalav, look to the areas on the frontier of Virlych. Everywhere else in Ustalav should be far more civilized and safe.
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while I do liked most of the work done for Ravenloft in the 3.x edition, yes when all its spelled... you lsot some of thw wonder and amazement... yes... as a DM I want to know somethings... but for example knowing that what the Dark Powers were... well that was not one of those things... not like they did...
still as always 2nd Edition was better in flavor and threatment... and I am not sure 4E can do better than 3E... but well I am no fan of 4E, just want to say Wes that I have fallen in love with your depiction of Ustalav and hope that considering the "Gothic Monsters Revisited" you can do soemthing about Ustalav sooner than later.
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If there is room left on the reading list, I would recommend the following:
Fall of the House of Usher, Edgar Allen Poe
The Turn of the Screw, Henry James
In a Glass Darkly, Sheridan Le FanuIf you are inclined toward more romance, I imagine Wuthering Heights or Jane Eyre would fit the bill. I vastly prefer the former, if I have to choose, solely because of Heathcliff.
Robert W. Chambers The King in Yellow is also worthwhile, especially for the proto-Lovecraftian themes.
Ah, good suggestions there, F33b! :)
I excluded the 'Wuthering Heights' and 'Jane Eyre' from my list, as they both lean more towards romance (although like yourself, if I *had* to, I'd suggest the former). Henry James and Sheridan Le Fanu I *should* have remembered to mention.
As for the overdoing the evil I got the sense that if you had everything detailed going on at once, it ceased to be gothic horror and became almost a "horror apocalypse" setting instead.Sort of an increase the intensity but decrease the frequency sort of thing.
Spot on!