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One of the last men to walk on the Moon says that aliens do exist, and the government is covering up the information. "It is now time to put away this embargo of truth about the alien presence," said Edgar D. Mitchell, who made the longest moonwalk in history. "I call upon our government to open up ... and become a part of this planetary community that is now trying to take our proper role as a spacefaring civilization." The founder of the Paradigm Research Group, Stephan Bassett, has also called on the president to release all UFO related documents immediately. "If it does not disclose, by the end of May - this is not a threat or anything, you don't threaten the United States government, they're heavily armed ... the PRG has an enormous and substantial network, and quite a bit of documentary evidence connected to this, particularly politically ... and we are going to be extensively putting that out to the media, and we're just going to make it as difficult on them as possible," Mr. Bassett said. Bassett and Mitchell say that if it isn't done the U.S. may lose the second space race, this one about who will be the first to tell the truth about extraterrestrials.
Damn. The comments are disabled there.
I wanna argue with UFO-believers.
I'll say this: It's certainly an entertaining article.
Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
Can we talk to 'em? Unlikely. If they jumped in their spaceships and flew over, or just sent radio messages for that matter, they'd be extinct as a species long before contact was made. The sheer distances we're talking about, from solar system to solar system, are so vast as to stagger the imagination. This isn't a matter of "well, they can go faster" -- because when you start approaching the speed of light, you get all sorts of relativity effects that, well, they're not good for spaceships. Or aliens. And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
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Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
WHAT?! You mean to tell me that the good aliens don't look like wrinkly lemurs and the bad aliens don't look like upright dinosaurs? Next you're going to tell me Sebastian isn't really a horse.
Next you're going to tell me Sebastian isn't really a horse.
He's a styx devil disguised as a unicorn, silly.
WHAT?! You mean to tell me that the good aliens don't look like wrinkly lemurs and the bad aliens don't look like upright dinosaurs? Next you're going to tell me Sebastian isn't really a horse.Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
You guys are kooks. Are you part French?
This is refreshing. I live in Texas, one of the UFO-believin'est states in the union, and I sometimes forget that I'm not the only one in the world who sort of dismisses the whole thing as "lunatic fringe conspiracy rant" as opposed to "common sense."
One of the guys I work with is convinced that alien/human hybrids have infiltrated the government; he voted against Kerry in '04 because "He's married to that Heinz fortune lady -- Heinz 57 -- you know there are 57 documented species of aliens on Earth -- you're going to try to tell me that's a coincidence?" I've heard a lot of good reasons to vote against Kerry, but it's sort of hard for me to accept that aliens top the list...
And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
Right now it is. However, there might be a method of FTL that we haven't even thought of yet. Remember, there were scientists who thought manned-flight was impossible at one time.
Remember, there were scientists who thought manned-flight was impossible at one time.
If they were "scientists," they thought it was "not currently feasible," rather than "impossible." Flight is manifestly possible, theoretically, mathematically, and observationally. Mathematically-speaking, FTL would involve energy states so alien to ours that any critter adapted to them would be unrecognizable and most likely even undetectable to us -- and if adapted to those states, would collapse if dropped down to ours.
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This is refreshing. I live in Texas, one of the UFO-believin'est states in the union, and I sometimes forget that I'm not the only one in the world who sort of dismisses the whole thing as "lunatic fringe conspiracy rant" as opposed to "common sense."
One of the guys I work with is convinced that alien/human hybrids have infiltrated the government; he voted against Kerry in '04 because "He's married to that Heinz fortune lady -- Heinz 57 -- you know there are 57 documented species of aliens on Earth -- you're going to try to tell me that's a coincidence?" I've heard a lot of good reasons to vote against Kerry, but it's sort of hard for me to accept that aliens top the list...
Write down everything he says. You never know when it might come in handy for gaming or novels.
Remember American Gods and the KFC story....
Write down everything he says. You never know when it might come in handy for gaming or novels.
Half of what he says, I'm trying desperately to forget I ever heard. It gives me nightmares. When he started gleefully describing a movie he saw that involved "das Double-Chainsaw," I swear to God I almost puked.
or just sent radio messages for that matter, they'd be extinct as a species long before contact was made.
There are 49 star systems within 17 light years of our own. Radio waves travel at the speed of light. Thus it is possible to send messages back in forth before they become extinct, assuming of course they developed radio at approximately the same time as us and sent it in the right direction and we and them were listening and ...
Thus it is possible to send messages back in forth before they become extinct, assuming of course they developed radio at approximately the same time as us and sent it in the right direction and we and them were listening and ...
... and they are inhabiting one of those systems in the first place and they send some signal distinguishable from background noise (e.g., pulsars) and interpretable by us... yeah, I gotcha. When the odds are so far from "probable" that they make winning the lottery look like a sure thing, there's no need for me to make them seem an order of magnitude or so less likely still.
...and they are inhabiting one of those systems in the first place and they send some signal distinguishable from background noise (e.g., pulsars) and interpretable by us... yeah, I gotcha. When the odds are so far from "probable" that they make winning the lottery look like a sure thing, there's no need for me to make them seem an order of magnitude or so less likely still.
Why Kirth, you seem awfully invested in debunking the idea of alien visitations. Hmmmm...could you be covering something? :)
Why Kirth, you seem awfully invested in debunking the idea of alien visitations. Hmmmm...could you be covering something?
Well, the next step beyond aliens is to try contacting faerie creatures. And then people might learn that satyrs are vulnerable to cold iron and... whoops! Never mind that, go back to the aliens, please...
...and they are inhabiting one of those systems in the first place and they send some signal distinguishable from background noise (e.g., pulsars) and interpretable by us... yeah, I gotcha. When the odds are so far from "probable" that they make winning the lottery look like a sure thing, there's no need for me to make them seem an order of magnitude or so less likely still.Why Kirth, you seem awfully invested in debunking the idea of alien visitations. Hmmmm...could you be covering something? :)
Yeah, he might be one of them or perhaps he was visited by one of them and received the dreaded "anal probe" and is too embarrassed to talk about it. :)
It would be fine with me if there were aliens, but yeah, I'm with Kirth on the highly unlikely argument. I must hang out in the odd parts of Texas...I'm trying to remember the last time I met a UFO believer...
Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
Can we talk to 'em? Unlikely. If they jumped in their spaceships and flew over, or just sent radio messages for that matter, they'd be extinct as a species long before contact was made. The sheer distances we're talking about, from solar system to solar system, are so vast as to stagger the imagination. This isn't a matter of "well, they can go faster" -- because when you start approaching the speed of light, you get all sorts of relativity effects that, well, they're not good for spaceships. Or aliens. And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
Life is actually pretty recognizable. We may not recognize it as intelligent, though.
Do you mean "poking things with a stick" intelligent or constructing language, art, structures of shelter, vehicles, etc intelligent?
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Life is actually pretty recognizable. We may not recognize it as intelligent, though.Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
Can we talk to 'em? Unlikely. If they jumped in their spaceships and flew over, or just sent radio messages for that matter, they'd be extinct as a species long before contact was made. The sheer distances we're talking about, from solar system to solar system, are so vast as to stagger the imagination. This isn't a matter of "well, they can go faster" -- because when you start approaching the speed of light, you get all sorts of relativity effects that, well, they're not good for spaceships. Or aliens. And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
With only one planet to go on, this statement is highly debatable. We have no idea under what conditions life can arise, merely the conditions it has managed to arrive here. Who's to say carbon-based life is the only way?
EDIT: Actually, thinking about it, we haven't got a great idea of how it came about here either, so we're especially ignorant. Does anyone even have a functional definition of life? The 7-point one I learned while studying wasn't really that well-defined.
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Right now it is. However, there might be a method of FTL that we haven't even thought of yet. Remember, there were scientists who thought manned-flight was impossible at one time.
And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
Correct Michiu Kaku was just talking about compressing space in a bubble, causing it to warp faster than the light around it...though the light within the warped area would remain at a constant...He said we'll need a power source greater than we have currently to use such a technology, but it is mathematically possible.
We know life can function in extreme environments, including Sulphuric acid and 1500 degree volcano vents, life can survive in the crushing depths of the deepest trenches...And we have 2 planets to look at now...that big red one...with the landers on it...and the water...
Check out the ESA site for Mars Express to see the water on there...nice picture of a crater with massive amounts of ice in it...
Life is actually pretty recognizable. We may not recognize it as intelligent, though.Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
Can we talk to 'em? Unlikely. If they jumped in their spaceships and flew over, or just sent radio messages for that matter, they'd be extinct as a species long before contact was made. The sheer distances we're talking about, from solar system to solar system, are so vast as to stagger the imagination. This isn't a matter of "well, they can go faster" -- because when you start approaching the speed of light, you get all sorts of relativity effects that, well, they're not good for spaceships. Or aliens. And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
With only one planet to go on, this statement is highly debatable. We have no idea under what conditions life can arise, merely the conditions it has managed to arrive here. Who's to say carbon-based life is the only way?
EDIT: Actually, thinking about it, we haven't got a great idea of how it came about here either, so we're especially ignorant. Does anyone even have a functional definition of life? The 7-point one I learned while studying wasn't really that well-defined.
Aliens may not even be 'alive' per say. It is possible that complex self replicating entities might exist in the universe which are not strictly alive by biologicial standards.
Kirth Gersen while i agree that faster-than-light travel is in all likelyhood impossible, i am not convinced that it would be impossible for a significantly advanced species to enter our star system. Between what we know we don't understand about quantuum entanglement and what we think we understand about space time, i don't think it is wise to rule out interstella travel that doesn't involve travelling from point a to point b.
Ofcause, Clark's first law would apply to any such technology, so you describing it as sorcery might well be apt.
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Life is actually pretty recognizable. We may not recognize it as intelligent, though.Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
Can we talk to 'em? Unlikely. If they jumped in their spaceships and flew over, or just sent radio messages for that matter, they'd be extinct as a species long before contact was made. The sheer distances we're talking about, from solar system to solar system, are so vast as to stagger the imagination. This isn't a matter of "well, they can go faster" -- because when you start approaching the speed of light, you get all sorts of relativity effects that, well, they're not good for spaceships. Or aliens. And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
With only one planet to go on, this statement is highly debatable. We have no idea under what conditions life can arise, merely the conditions it has managed to arrive here. Who's to say carbon-based life is the only way?
Well, arguably carbon based life would be the only species we would be likely to interact with, what with having the same basic needs and all. Life on Earth tends to evolve along similar lines based on their environment and role. This is true even with such vastly different species as dolphins and sharks. Therefore, if we were to discover other worlds that had similar environments, then it is likely that lifeforms would have evolved along similar, although not identical, lines.
Well, arguably carbon based life would be the only species we would be likely to interact with, what with having the same basic needs and all. Life on Earth tends to evolve along similar lines based on their environment and role. This is true even with such vastly different species as dolphins and sharks. Therefore, if we were to discover other worlds that had similar environments, then it is likely that lifeforms would have evolved along similar, although not identical, lines.Life is actually pretty recognizable. We may not recognize it as intelligent, though.Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
Can we talk to 'em? Unlikely. If they jumped in their spaceships and flew over, or just sent radio messages for that matter, they'd be extinct as a species long before contact was made. The sheer distances we're talking about, from solar system to solar system, are so vast as to stagger the imagination. This isn't a matter of "well, they can go faster" -- because when you start approaching the speed of light, you get all sorts of relativity effects that, well, they're not good for spaceships. Or aliens. And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
With only one planet to go on, this statement is highly debatable. We have no idea under what conditions life can arise, merely the conditions it has managed to arrive here. Who's to say carbon-based life is the only way?
To expand upon this, their are hyposis floating around that propose the idea that life can only form and succeed in a very limited number of forms. In the Cambrian explosion numerous forms of life evolved, yet most of those different forms disappeared very quickly in geological terms. It is possible, that all life capable of tool use and higher language functions would be upright walking, pentedactile mamal like humanoids, because the evolutionary pathway that leads to such a creature is the one most likely to survive long enough for such features to emerge.
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To expand upon this, their are hyposis floating around that propose the idea that life can only form and succeed in a very limited number of forms. In the Cambrian explosion numerous forms of life evolved, yet most of those different forms disappeared very quickly in geological terms. It is possible, that all life capable of tool use and higher language functions would be...Well, arguably carbon based life would be the only species we would be likely to interact with, what with having the same basic needs and all. Life on Earth tends to evolve along similar lines based on their environment and role. This is true even with such vastly different species as dolphins and sharks. Therefore, if we were to discover other worlds that had similar environments, then it is likely that lifeforms would have evolved along similar, although not identical, lines.Life is actually pretty recognizable. We may not recognize it as intelligent, though.Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
Can we talk to 'em? Unlikely. If they jumped in their spaceships and flew over, or just sent radio messages for that matter, they'd be extinct as a species long before contact was made. The sheer distances we're talking about, from solar system to solar system, are so vast as to stagger the imagination. This isn't a matter of "well, they can go faster" -- because when you start approaching the speed of light, you get all sorts of relativity effects that, well, they're not good for spaceships. Or aliens. And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
With only one planet to go on, this statement is highly debatable. We have no idea under what conditions life can arise, merely the conditions it has managed to arrive here. Who's to say carbon-based life is the only way?
It's possible, but let's be honest, we're not overburdened with evidence that it's true. We've got one example. Generalising from that kind of limited data is very dangerous.
~reads and decides to withhold my comments~
To expand upon this, their are hyposis floating around that propose the idea that life can only form and succeed in a very limited number of forms. In the Cambrian explosion numerous forms of life evolved, yet most of those different forms disappeared very quickly in geological terms. It is possible, that all life capable of tool use and higher...Well, arguably carbon based life would be the only species we would be likely to interact with, what with having the same basic needs and all. Life on Earth tends to evolve along similar lines based on their environment and role. This is true even with such vastly different species as dolphins and sharks. Therefore, if we were to discover other worlds that had similar environments, then it is likely that lifeforms would have evolved along similar, although not identical, lines.Life is actually pretty recognizable. We may not recognize it as intelligent, though.Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
Can we talk to 'em? Unlikely. If they jumped in their spaceships and flew over, or just sent radio messages for that matter, they'd be extinct as a species long before contact was made. The sheer distances we're talking about, from solar system to solar system, are so vast as to stagger the imagination. This isn't a matter of "well, they can go faster" -- because when you start approaching the speed of light, you get all sorts of relativity effects that, well, they're not good for spaceships. Or aliens. And, as I've said before, "faster-than-light" is code-speak for "sorcery."
With only one planet to go on, this statement is highly debatable. We have no idea under what conditions life can arise, merely the conditions it has managed to arrive here. Who's to say carbon-based life is the only way?
Some of the observations from Evodevo and chaos theory related to observation of fractel patterns in organic structures provide enough reason to consider it worth of atleast cursery investigation.
Don't get me wrong, i am not suggesting that their is evidence for it, merely that it is an interesting hyposis.
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Remember, there were scientists who thought manned-flight was impossible at one time.If they were "scientists," they thought it was "not currently feasible," rather than "impossible." Flight is manifestly possible, theoretically, mathematically, and observationally. Mathematically-speaking, FTL would involve energy states so alien to ours that any critter adapted to them would be unrecognizable and most likely even undetectable to us -- and if adapted to those states, would collapse if dropped down to ours.
He said "manned-flight" you said "flight". Remember these scientists hadn't seen anything fly except birds that were "vastly" smaller than they are. The idea that something as big as a man, made from stuff that doesn't float, couldn't fly, would appear quite logical in those circumstances.....
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I think I'll go with "Calvin and Hobbes" on this one, where Calvin tells Hobbes that "Sometimes I think the surest sign that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Tough to argue with the kid. :)
As for whether or not FTL travel is possible, I'd agree with whoever said that it's not possible with our current tech and understanding of the universe. However, not that long ago, that was true about the "sound barrier" too. In fact, there are some here probably for whom that was within their life spans.
Slightly further back, we were all 100% certain the earth was both flat and the center of the known universe, and that the sun orbited it in a perfectly circular rotation. That's only slightly further back in our history, which itself is only an eyeblink in the history of life on this planet, which itself is only a bit more than an eyeblink in the history of the universe.
Humanity has always been confronted with those who would try to draw lines and say what was or what not possible. At SOME point, they'll probably be right. Is it FTL? Who knows.
He said "manned-flight" you said "flight". Remember these scientists hadn't seen anything fly except birds that were "vastly" smaller than they are. The idea that something as big as a man, made from stuff that doesn't float, couldn't fly, would appear quite logical in those circumstances.....
If you want to get into semantics, the scientific method was devised relatively recently, and we were flying in hot air balloons not that long thereafter. Da Vinci was trying to design "ornithopters" for manned flight before that.
A cave man looking at birds is not a "scientist."
He said "manned-flight" you said "flight". Remember these scientists hadn't seen anything fly except birds that were "vastly" smaller than they are. The idea that something as big as a man, made from stuff that doesn't float, couldn't fly, would appear quite logical in those circumstances.....If you want to get into semantics, the scientific method was devised relatively recently, and we were flying in hot air balloons not that long thereafter. Da Vinci was trying to design "ornithopters" for manned flight before that.
A cave man looking at birds is not a "scientist."
Perhaps I'm being foolishly short-sighted, but I have to agree with Kirth. While I'm generally very skeptical about absolutes, the scientific method was really a game-changer. Many of the historical "truths" you mention were not deduced from evidence; they were wishful thinking based on superstition. And while there is an incredible amount of knowledge left to be gained, I don't think our models of the underlying building blocks of physics are likely to change at this point. Be refined? Absolutely, just as the scientific method demands that they must be. No model can ever be perfect. But I doubt we'll wake up and decide that, say, molecular theory is totally wrong.
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I have no doubt that some of the things we currently think are 'scientifically impossible' are going to turn out to be possible. It's happened plenty of times in the past, and I'm pretty sure that the human race is capable of being wrong about something at least one more time in the future...
But I also believe that any species that could develop FTL technology or space-folding technology or quantum-entanglement means of instantaneous communication / transportation would have *long past* developed the ability to micro-assemble anything they want, and have *long* since lost any need to actually go anywhere to get anything.
If they want something, they can manufacture it. Bad sci-fi notions like aliens coming to earth to *steal our water* are just insane, particularly in a galaxy where every solar system has a bazillion tons of ice floating around in it's Oort cloud, and hydrogen is the most common element in the universe (and oxygen is hardly the rarest), making water pretty darn easy to whip up, if ya want it.
I'm with Calvin. If there is intelligent life out there (and, given the size of the universe, and the relative youth of Earth compared to some of the other worlds out there, it would be all kinds of statistically improbable that there *isn't,*) they'd be morons to waste their time coming to visit us. It's not like they can't watch our TV from where they are, and see how we would be likely to react to visiting aliens...
Much easier to use gravitational lensing to just eavesdrop from home. Aliens, like humans, are probably going to be couch-potatoes.
'Click. Oh, those whacky norvites! Their humour is so crass. Click. Oh, look what the pretusians are doing! Ow. That looks like it would hurt. Must be nice to have prehensile spines... Click. Ooh, Iron Chef is on! I wonder if you can make sashimi with tube-worms?'
Looking at the similarities between ufo/alien encounters and the stories of faeries, leprechauns, pixies, and other diminutive critters from folklore--and continuing from there on to mystical and religious experiences; and then looking at the drug induced experiences of shamans (more specifically ayahuasca use) where there are frequent instances of anthropomorphic spirit guides OR little elf-like beings, you can start to see many parallels that opens the door to something much more strange going on than just Aliens...
but i have to go now so i'll stop there.
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You guys are kooks. Are you part French?WHAT?! You mean to tell me that the good aliens don't look like wrinkly lemurs and the bad aliens don't look like upright dinosaurs? Next you're going to tell me Sebastian isn't really a horse.Do I think there are aliens out there somethere? Sure, why not. Probably not little green (or gray) men, but something we wouldn't likely recognize as life.
oui, a un problème avec lui?
FTL is possible. Let me explain it to you.
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What? You couldn't read it? Your obviously stuck in earth time. *sigh* primitive species...
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Sorry didnt mean to post it so seriously.That's cool; I'm sleep deprived and don't know what I sound like.
Yeah I am at work and can only post between calls, aslo i forget my humor doesn't translate well to posting on threads, which is why I rarely do so. well anymore. I think I annoyed Sebastian for about a week. That was fun. Didnt get me on any enemy list though. Sigh
Annoying Sebastian is easy.
Yes well some of us still....FTL is possible. Let me explain it to you.
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.What? You couldn't read it? Your obviously stuck in earth time. *sigh* primitive species...
...exactly...