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I suspect some jealousy is involved. Also the French cultural disposition toward cretinism.
Kudos for the stereotype, Mr Mona.
I guess i could be offended. But then it would serve your argument.It was meant in the most positive way imaginable.
Serge Gainsbourg, my favorite musician in history, epitomizes what I am talking about. And you've got to admit Sarkozy has a bit of it about him as well.
I love the French.
Hmmm, does 'cretinism' perhaps mean something different in America? Because in the UK, there's no way to mean it positively, really.
Of course, as I am British, I wholly endorse insulting the French, in general.
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. I don't want to go to a political website, because most of them plant a flag on one side of the political spectrum and differing opinions aren't welcome.Well to be fair in a lot of these discussions that's all I'm seeing here.Actually I find the people who usually discuss politics here are a nice mix ..I'd say 50/30/20 Left/Right/Neither.
Usually the topic ends up veering all over the place, and if things get out of hand, like with that one dood right after the election calling for the death of all conservatives, well, that's why we have a flag option and the mighty Postmonster has a timeout function.
Now, you have threads like 'Congressional Republicans Confuse Me' that started as a rant as to why the 'Pubs didn't just shut their pie holes and vote for the stimulus package. That thread has morphed into a general discussion of taxation and the long term effects of these massive debt numbers. You have the 'Is it me or is American culture increasingly nihilistic?' thread which pruported that due to the Hollywood film 'Knowing' that America was in 'crazyland'. But that odd thread spawned a very nice side discussion about what nihilism really IS.
Communication is a great tool for learning. If you aren't hidebound in your political views you can learn a lot by the views of others. My 2 cents.
Look I probably shouldn't have said anything since trying to explain my position would probably get me banned and would stir up a lot of bad blood so I'm just going to leave it.
Of course, as I am British, I wholly endorse insulting the French, in general.
Fair game, from a brit ;)
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Ok, as a Mexican I have a few things to say:
I had already seen that article, I lived in Mexico City and never saw a single, A SINGLE Taco Bell establishment, to my despair. When I moved out of there, I didn't find it elsewhere.
A) Carlos Monsiváis, as cultured as he may be, I believe he has never eaten at Taco Bell. He said that Taco Bell in Mexico is like bringing ice to the Arctic. Taco Bell is NOT, by far, mexican food. It is... urhg... [???]... I dont' know. Typical Yuggoth cuisine disguised as mexican only in name? Calling Taco Bell mexican would be calling Chop Suey chinese food. Misguiding, but not accurate.
B) Yes, our country is overrun with fast food franchises, but they're successful. Instead of complaining, people should stop purchasing, if they're really against them.
C) I demand that Mountain Dew is sold again in Mexico. That is all.
Taco Bell is the grand conspiracy ;) They are even taking over China.
Look I probably shouldn't have said anything since trying to explain my position would probably get me banned and would stir up a lot of bad blood so I'm just going to leave it.
I hope I didn't come across as berating you Kevin, I just feel that the free exchange of ideas is important. Sometimes, that exchange leads to people saying things that are over the top, but that's the whole free speech thing. Please accept my apologies if you perceived this as a personal attack, it was not meant to be such.
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Hitler was not democratically elected. (As he never won more then 50% of the vote).
50% of the vote isn't the same as 'democratically elected', though, unless you force run-offs. I don't know when the last time a British PM's party won 50% of the vote or more and there's plenty of MPs that are elected with less than 50%.
Not that he was democratically elected in a way we'd recognise, so far as I'm aware.
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Look I probably shouldn't have said anything since trying to explain my position would probably get me banned and would stir up a lot of bad blood so I'm just going to leave it.. I don't want to go to a political website, because most of them plant a flag on one side of the political spectrum and differing opinions aren't welcome.Well to be fair in a lot of these discussions that's all I'm seeing here.Actually I find the people who usually discuss politics here are a nice mix ..I'd say 50/30/20 Left/Right/Neither.
Usually the topic ends up veering all over the place, and if things get out of hand, like with that one dood right after the election calling for the death of all conservatives, well, that's why we have a flag option and the mighty Postmonster has a timeout function.
Now, you have threads like 'Congressional Republicans Confuse Me' that started as a rant as to why the 'Pubs didn't just shut their pie holes and vote for the stimulus package. That thread has morphed into a general discussion of taxation and the long term effects of these massive debt numbers. You have the 'Is it me or is American culture increasingly nihilistic?' thread which pruported that due to the Hollywood film 'Knowing' that America was in 'crazyland'. But that odd thread spawned a very nice side discussion about what nihilism really IS.
Communication is a great tool for learning. If you aren't hidebound in your political views you can learn a lot by the views of others. My 2 cents.
Please don't leave. I'm sure we could come to an accord if we just work hard enough. I haven't heard you say anything that would get you banned or cause hard feelings. Lets try and work it out instead.
I remember when I came to the US, my frustration at hearing all the insults from Americans toward the French for the wrong things. As I tried to point out, that's nearly as bad as not insulting them at all...
Same here (living in US too) for the jokes about brits.
Well, as much french and english despise each other, at least they agree about their common enemy : The americans ;)For the french, indeed the worst you can do to them is to ignore them :D
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I remember when I came to the US, my frustration at hearing all the insults from Americans toward the French for the wrong things. As I tried to point out, that's nearly as bad as not insulting them at all...
Fair game, from a brit ;)
So enlighten us. What are the proper things to insult the French for?
Please don't leave. I'm sure we could come to an accord if we just work hard enough. I haven't heard you say anything that would get you banned or cause hard feelings. Lets try and work it out instead.
Watch it, David.
You're getting soft...;)
So enlighten us. What are the proper things to insult the French for?
I could tell, but then i would lose my citizenship...
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Yes I watched several of the debates probably more than I cared to but I also watched his "town hall meetings" where when asked a question his favorite word became Welluhhhm
I have too..and i see him thinking out his sentences carefully and thoughtfully when not in front of a teleprompter
the 'welluhhhm' is a verbal pause. Everyone has them. Even the more intelligent ...especially the more intelligent. Because they want to carefully phrase what they say..and not just stumple into a comment..and have the media blast them for not thinking before they speak...like ummmmm Bush?
Cmon. Ive listened to sooo much right wing claptrap anti-obama stuff...like hes not an american citizen, like the 'hug' that Mrs Obama supposedly gave the 'queen'...sheesh she responded to the Queen putting her arm around her by draping her arm over her shoulder..and the queens folks even said said after it was ok...
Im a registered republican and ashamed I am by the way my party is acting...
when i was in the army we had a saying..."If you aren't part of the solution...you are part of the problem"
nothing says how i feel about the whining republicans who I share a name party with than that phrase right now!
Both. He is smarter, and his image is better portrayed.And you know them both personaly to make this statment. Or are you going off the impresion you get from the way they are portrayed in the media?Obama's speeches and other public utterances are of a much superior calibre to Bush's. (And I mean full speeches, not the snippets shown in the media). They are thoughtful, nuanced and hopeful. Further, they are intellectual while still being able to be understood by the masses. I also think Obama's media image is much better cultivated. He's very aware of the possibilities of new media, and used them brilliantly during his campaign and his time so far in office.
I have to ask how you think a speak telling us doom is at hand if we don't pass this bailout bill is hopeful? Isn't that the same old politics of fear?
How smart is he that he has had 4 or 5 cabinet level appointees get catch having not paid their taxes?
He's been in office around 90 days and is on his way to spend more and creat more debt then any president in history. Reagan created 2.5 trillion in debt in his 8 years, but created 16 million jobs, and is largely responsible for ending the cold war peacefully. Obama has already put forth bills that would create nearly that much debt.
I certainly hope your right and Obama is smart, but right now I am very nervious. He's made some pretty hefty bets with my daughter's future, and her daughter's.
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Yes I watched several of the debates probably more than I cared to but I also watched his "town hall meetings" where when asked a question his favorite word became Welluhhhm
I have too..and i see him thinking out his sentences carefully and thoughtfully when not in front of a teleprompter
the 'welluhhhm' is a verbal pause. Everyone has them. Even the more intelligent ...especially the more intelligent. Because they want to carefully phrase what they say..and not just stumple into a comment..and have the media blast them for not thinking before they speak...
Well ummm, when I took um public speaking courses it was um considered one of the worse things you could do and um honestly uh when I listen to him umm speak off a um teleprompter uhhh he does honestly umm say it too much.
While I think Obama is an intelligent man, he should be more aware of just how often he does it and take steps to do it less, it just doesn't sound intelligent. I have great respect for the man and when he has prepared statements he is a brilliant orator, but when in a public forum he does need to watch his use of the verbal expressions um, uhh, and err. In the same way that bush needed to stop trying to think of a big word to describe what he was getting across and wind up making something up because he didn't know the actual word he was thinking of. If you can't think of the big word just use the words you know.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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How can cretinism be viewed as a good thing, particularly when it is French?
Well, this clip is a pretty good example of what I'm talking about. This man (and this event) were celebrated, and it only increased his already considerable mystique. Since it also increased my personal respect for someone I already loved, I must say that I appreciate a certain amount of cretinism of this particular flavor, and this particular flavor of cretinism is distinctly French.
I should also mention that only in France can a guy like this end up sleeping with Brigitte Bardot.
So enlighten us. What are the proper things to insult the French for?I remember when I came to the US, my frustration at hearing all the insults from Americans toward the French for the wrong things. As I tried to point out, that's nearly as bad as not insulting them at all...
Fair game, from a brit ;)
Don't bother. Really are the french even worth thinking about long enough to come up with a reason to insult them? ((note the lower case, they aren't even important enough to deserve capital letters for their name.)) :)
Well, they certainly helped us win our Revolution.
We paid that back be retaking their nation for them in WWII, even had to fight some french to do it because they joined up with the Nazis after they lost to them....
Well, they certainly helped us win our Revolution.
Unfortunately Erik, as much i would love to think "we" did it to really help americans to be free and independent, "we" probably did it just to annoy England.
/sigh
Although i know Erik's remarks were marked by humor and cultural reference, unfortunately it is not the case for some other posters who really have some hate to spill...
So much for open-mindness and tolerance...
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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And lots of French helped us out, too, non?
It's not an issue of tit-for-tat payback. Of all the nations on Earth, America and modern France were born of the same philosophical threads at the height of the Age of Reason. The founding documents of our nation are VERY similar to the Declaration of the Rights of Man that came out of the French Revolution. The influence of France on Revolutionary America is astounding (and vice versa), and both nations provided critical support to one another at key moments throughout history.
These bonds transcend the Revolutionary wars of both nations. They transcend World War 2. They are fundamental.
Our nations were forged in the same philosophical and political stew. They are and have been one of our greatest allies throughout history, and nothing should change that, in my view.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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And lots of French helped us out, too, non?
It's not an issue of tit-for-tat payback. Of all the nations on Earth, America and modern France were born of the same philosophical threads at the height of the Age of Reason. The founding documents of our nation are VERY similar to the Declaration of the Rights of Man that came out of the French Revolution. The influence of France on Revolutionary America is astounding (and vice versa), and both nations provided critical support to one another at key moments throughout history.
These bonds transcend the Revolutionary wars of both nations. They transcend World War 2. They are fundamental.
Our nations were forged in the same philosophical and political stew. They are and have been one of our greatest allies throughout history, and nothing should change that, in my view.
But...but...they're cheese-eating surrender monkeys.
...oh wait...I'm theoretically of French ancestory (or so my surname would suggest)...
viva la republic!
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And lots of French helped us out, too, non?
It's not an issue of tit-for-tat payback. Of all the nations on Earth, America and modern France were born of the same philosophical threads at the height of the Age of Reason. The founding documents of our nation are VERY similar to the Declaration of the Rights of Man that came out of the French Revolution. The influence of France on Revolutionary America is astounding (and vice versa), and both nations provided critical support to one another at key moments throughout history.
These bonds transcend the Revolutionary wars of both nations. They transcend World War 2. They are fundamental.
Our nations were forged in the same philosophical and political stew. They are and have been one of our greatest allies throughout history, and nothing should change that, in my view.
Problem is recent events (Iraq war) probably have to an extent changed that. I seem to remember a whole lot of anti-french sentiment (Changing french fries to freedom fries a call to have american graves dug up in france and shipped home so they could be buried in Democratic soil etc) all because France would not support the war In Iraq
Our nations were forged in the same philosophical and political stew. They are and have been one of our greatest allies throughout history, and nothing should change that, in my view.
It is a great shame that the American Right has determined that the French are somehow the enemy. As Erik posted, our two nations have a long mutual history of respect and mutal aid. It is sad in these later days we have allowed that to atrophy.
Vive La France!
... You guys should look into quitting smoking so much though ..srsly, it's for yer own good ;)
And lots of French helped us out, too, non?
It's not an issue of tit-for-tat payback. Of all the nations on Earth, America and modern France were born of the same philosophical threads at the height of the Age of Reason. The founding documents of our nation are VERY similar to the Declaration of the Rights of Man that came out of the French Revolution. The influence of France on Revolutionary America is astounding (and vice versa), and both nations provided critical support to one another at key moments throughout history.
These bonds transcend the Revolutionary wars of both nations. They transcend World War 2. They are fundamental.
Our nations were forged in the same philosophical and political stew. They are and have been one of our greatest allies throughout history, and nothing should change that, in my view.
Thank you, Erik.
I share this sentiment.Besides if there is an actual primal anti-americanism in France these years, it is mainly a fashion from cold feet pseudo-intellectuals who are afraid for their holy culture or from deep country simpletons who are afraid of losing their farm production in front of massive food corporations.
If France really hated the United States, american movies and music wouldn't have the success they have among the population.
When i was a kid, my two heroes were Zorro and Davy Crockett.
And for the record, if i hated Bush, i also hate Chirac and Sarkozy.
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It is a great shame that the American Right has determined that the French are somehow the enemy.
Well thats the thing France was never an enemy France was a friend hell It was the best kind of friend It was the kind that told you when you were doing something stupid rather than the type that nodded its head and went along with it (Britain)
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Problem is recent events (Iraq war) probably have to an extent changed that. I seem to remember a whole lot of anti-french sentiment (Changing french fries to freedom fries a call to have american graves dug up in france and shipped home so they could be buried in Democratic soil etc) all because France would not support the war In Iraq
And I call BS jingoism on all that sort of stuff.
"Freedom Fries" is exactly the sort of no-thought lunacy that I was worried about this thread devolving into (and it hasn't, thanks).
A handful of fringe loons does not 200 years of history erase.
(lol)
I remember I worked in this snack bar;...there was this French dude f&%%ing with me hardcore.
"Do you 'ave any of dese FRANCH FRISE? I wandur wat zey are...dese....FRANCH FRISE!!!" Dude, I just work here. I didn't name the f&%%ing things.
I like French people, just not that dude.
Now if you would stop making fun of my accent that would be nice, werewoof.
And I call BS jingoism on all that sort of stuff.
"Freedom Fries" is exactly the sort of no-thought lunacy that I was worried about this thread devolving into (and it hasn't, thanks).
A handful of fringe loons does not 200 years of history erase.
The funny thing is that "french" fries are not even french.
They are from belgium. :)
I like the French, Je parle un petit peut de Francais, but I am kinda ambivalent about the Quebecois. They are the tourists of the classic 'Ugly American' stereotype, and I believe they get their drivers licences straight from the UFC. Last summer when the dollar was in the toilet I was dodging cars with the 'Je me souviens' lisence plate every 10 yards. (shudder)
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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(lol)
I remember I worked in this snack bar;...there was this French dude f@#!ing with me hardcore.
"Do you 'ave any of dese FRANCH FRISE? I wandur wat zey are...dese....FRANCH FRISE!!!" Dude, I just work here. I didn't name the f@#!ing things.I like French people, just not that dude.
Probably there's some French dude saying the same thing about you and Americans. "I like ze Americans, but not zhis one guy who would not serve me ze franch frise. All I wanted was ze franch frise." ;-)
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Problem is recent events (Iraq war) probably have to an extent changed that. I seem to remember a whole lot of anti-french sentiment (Changing french fries to freedom fries a call to have american graves dug up in france and shipped home so they could be buried in Democratic soil etc) all because France would not support the war In IraqAnd I call BS jingoism on all that sort of stuff.
"Freedom Fries" is exactly the sort of no-thought lunacy that I was worried about this thread devolving into (and it hasn't, thanks).
A handful of fringe loons does not 200 years of history erase.
Never said it did.
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Honestly, though, as much as you mock yourselves (from one state to another) and even with videos like the one in youtube where american people didn't know a thing about the world, I have yet to meet someone like that. Every american I met has treated me very well and has proven to be a nice person (and excellent friends, when knowing them better).
So, is this some kind of conspiracy? Where do you hide these other americans that you sell to the rest of the world as an image of your country? Is this some kind of... TRAP?!
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Hitler was not democratically elected. (As he never won more then 50% of the vote).50% of the vote isn't the same as 'democratically elected', though, unless you force run-offs. I don't know when the last time a British PM's party won 50% of the vote or more and there's plenty of MPs that are elected with less than 50%.
Not that he was democratically elected in a way we'd recognise, so far as I'm aware.
Clinton never won more than 47% of the vote. Dude won a legitimate "democratic" election, though, the votes were just split three ways in larger numbers than before.
Yeah, but we had to have metal workers shave her pits before we erected her.
Heh, he said "erect." Hehe heh.
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Now if you would stop making fun of my accent that would be nice, werewoof.(lol)
I remember I worked in this snack bar;...there was this French dude f&%%ing with me hardcore.
"Do you 'ave any of dese FRANCH FRISE? I wandur wat zey are...dese....FRANCH FRISE!!!" Dude, I just work here. I didn't name the f&%%ing things.
I like French people, just not that dude.
Sorry, duod. I make fun of my own accent. I make fun of everybody's accent. It's cos I like them all, I don't mean any disrespect.
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'Cretinism' is a medical condition characterised by shortness and mental retardation. When used outside of the medical framework, it's a term of abuse (although in the UK, like 'spastic', it's rather fallen out of favour as being somewhat too spiteful; it's not fallen as far as 'spastic' did, though).
Hey, no more knocking Texas. :)
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I want to let this go, I really do, but the set-up is just perfect:Where do you hide these other americans that you sell to the rest of the world as an image of your country?Texas.
;-)
I met people here in Texas that I had to show where India is on a damn map.
Most of them was from Oklahoma though.|
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Honestly, though, as much as you mock yourselves (from one state to another) and even with videos like the one in youtube where american people didn't know a thing about the world, I have yet to meet someone like that. Every american I met has treated me very well and has proven to be a nice person (and excellent friends, when knowing them better).
So, is this some kind of conspiracy? Where do you hide these other americans that you sell to the rest of the world as an image of your country? Is this some kind of... TRAP?!
This reminds me of a funny joke I heard when I was in Junior High School. However, I won't tell it unless asked, because I'm afraid that somebody will take it the wrong way.