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I liked it and I thought it worked pretty well. But I was used to Palladium's system; played for years. Lotta people don't think the system is all balanced, and sometimes the combat doesn't make sense; but I'm used to unstructured activities, so it was cool to me.
Main thing--the classes aren't the least bit balanced against eachother, so if one guy's a juicer and everybody else is vagabonds or scouts, the juicer's gonna hog the glory. So give the vagabond a bionic arm or something.
Some people b&*&$ about the M.D.C. too.
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The whole "fighter vs. wizard" in D&D brouhaha is a sad joke compared to some of the class power disparities in Rifts. I kid you not.
I guess if that statement bothers you, well....Rifts may not be for you....
if it doesn't bother you then HUZZAH!!! LET'S SHOOT SOME VAMPIRES WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS!!! I mean, there has to be some give and take in life.
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I'll essentially echo what the others have said. If you've been playing in Rifts games already then ask your current GMs what problems he runs into.
If you want to run it then I'd suggest making an explicit split between MDC/Glitterboy/Juicer games and SDC/Scholar/Scout games -- either everybody plays railgun-wielding cyborg ninjas or nobody does.
Of course, in certain circles all that would ever need saying is "it's a Palladium game" ;)
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I played it way back in high school, and we did it for combat and laughs. Not much RP with that system, for us anyway. Vampire and Shadowrun were our RPing games.
But, Rifts can be very entertaining. However, as others have said, if you want a fun, balanced, and friendly game you need to set restrictions on classes.
My suggestion is to keep it simple. Stick to the core book, absolutely *NO* supplements for the players. You, as DM, can pick and choose what you want naturally. From the main book, have the group decide what kind of flavour they want. Coalition, mages, dogboys, Glitterboy or other Armoured Mech types, Crazies, etc. Create a group together that everyone can have a moment to shine, and avoiding the Vagabond-Juicer scenario.
Give them a storyline!
Then enjoy :)
If all you are expecting is combat after combat, then Rifts is only a good system for powergaming in a way other systems can barely comprehend. If however you want some good RP and has a group that can handle the characters not all being equally combat capable, then it can be awesome.
It has some of the best flavor and ideas of any post-apocalyptic setting I've seen. Lots of unique ideas and plenty of cool things for players to do and be.
Problems with Rifts/Palladium:
1) Very unblanced classes.
2) Somewhat clunky combat until you learn it.
3) Not very econimically realistic prices on a number of items.
Advantages of Rifts/Palladium:
1) Some of the best and most interesting psionics of any system.
2) One of the most interesting and flavorful martial arts systems.
3) There is ALWAYS something more dangerous out there.
4) Some of the best fluff and setting every printed.
I have to say that the Rifts groups I've played with have universally put more effort into not getting into combat than any group or system I've ever played in.
If you've never run it before, I recommend getting several of the books and reading carefully. Especially the fluff. In fact the setting has a good way to introduce new players to it. You have them make something from a setting they are familiar with using the rules of Rifts or one of the other palladium settings. Then their character shows up in Rifts by coming through a Rift. Their lack of knowledge about the setting is actually a held to RPing their character rather than a detriment.
If all you guys do is fight, after fight, after fight, then be careful with Rifts. You can easily end up with characters who are very out of balance combat wise. Although Rifts combat can be a lot of fun.
You will find a lot of people who hate Rifts for one reason or another. Of course you can say the same about every single game out there. If you waited for a system that no one had a single bad thing to say about it, you'd never play. I've tried to give you a quick over view of the good and the bad. If you've got any specific questions just post them on this thread, I'll keep an eye out.
I have always loved Rifts from the first time I read through the book at the local gaming store. The setting is great, the options are there and the number of books and amount of information available for the setting leaves you practically an unlimited amount of adventure ideas if you are even only somewhat creative. I had bought all the books up until they started to redo/consolidate them and to this point I probably am missing at most 5. I personally started playing rpg's with Robotech so the palladium combat system was what I started on and I don't think of it as any more "clunky" than some others out there. Obviously you have played it so I don't think you would have any problems if you already have a grasp of the game/system.
That being said I have to agree the classes are not balanced, but considering the amount of character choices available that is hardly a surprise. If there is a character concept you want, chances are someplace in that multitude of books the skeleton for it exists. The sky was the limit (or further as the case may be) and I think that was what really drew me to the game, it was a setting in which absolutely anything was possible and to a point probable. There was no need to shoe horn anything in as it already "fit." As a DM/GM you will definitely have to be more active in terms of balancing things out.
As for combat I can only say a few cautionary points. If you have someone who is playing a "combat" character with a bunch of "skill" characters you might want to dump some extra money on them in terms of equipment. The combat character will take the spotlight in a fight (as they should for that matter) but having the skill type characters have some better starting weapons or armor will make it less of an issue. This is no worse than any other game setting in truth, the core concept of some characters are better than others in certain areas is always there, it is up to the DM/GM to make sure they all have their place in the spotlight. This however complicates the GM/DM's life not the players. The Rifts game is a lot less forgiving in terms balance than a game like D&D. When running, if you are new to it, error on the side of caution, use smaller or less powerful encounters to get a feel for what the party can deal with. Bringing a character back after death was hardly ever an option in our games but to be truthful I can't honestly remember if that was a rules thing or just our group. A non MDC creature without instanteous access to MDC protection (a mage/psychic) will usually die very quickly in a fight. I personally couldn't wrap my head around environmental armor acting as PJ's, however the game is lethal enough to warrent the "I'm never leaving my armor" mentality.
As for the comment about the cost of certain items, generally the items that have a big cost are really effective, more deadly, or just something the characters shouldn't have easy access to. Our games we usually got more salvage items rather than credits or pure currency and very rarely were we pinching pennies so to speak. One of the first things we ALWAYS got was a vehicle that could carry the full party so there was little to no chance of a combat occuring when we were unarmored and resting.
All in all it is a very good game and I have a feeling those that complain about it being unbalanced were running under a GM who didn't put for the effort or play with the "GM vs Players" mentality.
With the cost of items I was more thinking along the lines of armor repair and E-clips. According to the book it costs about 10 times as much to repair armor as buy it new. Also you'll find that some guns cost less than 1 or 2 e-clips to power them. I agree that there is a good reason that most vehicles, guns, power armor, etc. cost so much.
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Rifts is a great game with a fantastic wow setting. I haven't played it since high school and have to admit I miss it. Re the Palladium system, it gets a lot of flack but in all honesty it is pretty straightforward. It seemed comparable to 2e d&d at the time I played it. As for RPing like any game all depends on your players. The setting's conflicts, and concepts certainly support it just depends on whether you run with it.
Also re some of the earlier glitterboy comments. Yeah the suit looks impressive, that gun is pretty dangerous. But you are also a huge target and who do you think is going to take the focus of the bad guy's fire all the time? The glitterboy's power and danger are more than made up for his lack of stealth and ability to walk around with a sign saying "empty your clip."
Also re some of the earlier glitterboy comments. Yeah the suit looks impressive, that gun is pretty dangerous. But you are also a huge target and who do you think is going to take the focus of the bad guy's fire all the time? The glitterboy's power and danger are more than made up for his lack of stealth and ability to walk around with a sign saying "empty your clip."
Also remember that your armor is worth around 11 million. The party can frequently make more money per person by capping you in your sleep than by playing for months. In most of the groups I've played Rifts with no body wanted to play a glitterboy. Although that gun makes an awesome vehicle mounted weapon.
I'm thinking of using d20 Future to create a d20 Glitter Boy and then run Gamma World instead.
That is what I was thinking. Steal the fluff and use another system.
There's also a "magic pigeon" spell that a p.c. in my pbp wished he had a few days ago. So I gave him a Bubo the owl from Clash of the Titans.
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Rifts is one of the coolest background settings ever...
But the MDC point based armor system for giant stuff bogs the game down ridiculously.
If you're a programming genius, go for it...otherwise look for a way to convert the system...
We used to have a joke at my FLGS. You can always tell a real gamer, because they're the ones who open Rifts sourcebooks and begin converting them to a better system the moment they buy them.
The setting is awesome. Hands down it's one of the most interesting mixes of magic and high technology I've seen in a RPG.
The game system is, IMO, an awkward mish-mash of Palladium and Robotech rules. On the plus side, you can modify it to a certain extent, but the system is not what you'd call straightforward or coherent.
If you want to run RIFTS without porting the setting to a different system, then your best bet is probably to go the minimalist route: RIFTS, RIFTS Sourcebook 1 for the information on the Coalition, and RIFTS Conversion Book for magic and monsters. Then build your own version of the setting, possibly by borrowing heavily from other fantasy and sci-fi games. Make the "home town" a version of Hommlet, with the agents being from the Coalition instead of the Temple of Elemental Evil, etc.
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The Juicer Uprising......best book EVAR.
Giant juicers, with mdc chainsaws....what's not to love?
LOL. I always liked the Grackletooth from Rifts Canada. One of my friends described them as have the attitude of an Australian. Personally I thought Aftermath was the best sourcebook ever, because it was all fluff. Juicer Uprising is a close second though.
I remember running a Rifts game where the unbalanced nature of the classes was a problem...Glitterboy and Juicer outshining others, etc.
I put them in a scenario where they had to track down a fugitive scientist. He was in an independent settlement where all MDC weapons and armor are checked at the gates. That helped level the playing field, at least for the short term. The party wasn't too happy with their missing gear, especially when the katana-wielding crazy in the pink bunny suit showed up.
Yes. Megadamage was always the most serious problem with RIFTS. :(
(But the setting was very cool.)
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I'll echo the basic sentiment: The setting is a lot of fun and opens up dozens of weird, wtf scenarios (like riding flying motorcycles out to kill a dragon and take the computer disk it's carrying before the vampire street gang can do the same). The system, however, is pretty broken. Palladium is playable in the lower-PL settings like Ninja Turtles or Beyond the Supernatural (not ideal, in my opinion, but workable), but throwing in MDC and stacking together all the extra rule systems to a system that, at it's core, hasn't changes in 25 years makes for a headache, especially for the GM. Combat especially can run very, very slowly, usually because everyone is arguing about how a rule works (because different books state different rules).
I'd recommend converting to a flexible, fast-and-easy system like Mutants and Masterminds. I've personally been itching to do just that, if only I could find the time to run one.
I'd recommend converting to a flexible, fast-and-easy system like Mutants and Masterminds. I've personally been itching to do just that, if only I could find the time to run one.
Hmmm...
I've been thinking of using Alternity (!) to run a more gritty RIFTS variant. I like the way the skill system and character advancement is set up so characters start at a decent power level and increase in fairly rapid, but small increments. The system also handles the difference between "ordinary," "good," and "amazing" weapons and protection better (IMO) than SDC and MDC. It even has rules for mutants, cybernetics, psionics, and (through the FX supplement) magic (arcane and faith); not to mention avoiding the whole OCC/RCC headache. Fraal mesmerists, mechalus mercenaries, and weren shamans would fit right in with the mutants (dog boys), cykoteks (juicers), and zero-g body tanks (glitter boys)...
It's funny how many of us love the setting; hate the rules for RIFTS.
Hate is... probably a bit strong. The rules do have serious issues; worse than even the most "broken" complaints about 3.x, IMO.
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If you have the Coalition war campaign book you chould try do do an all coalition team,that way your player will still have a nice variaty of caracter class to chose from but you also shield your self from alot a abuse and power gaming.
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I love the idea of Rifts...hate the execution. You come up with an idea for a character and it turns out a Scholar is the best fit. IF you don't min/max it you are toast when that Extra-Dimensional, Magic, Alien whatchamacallit attacks you.
One word...GROUP TEMPLATE!
http://www.feartheboot.com/ftb/index.php/resources
Use it, know it and games work better.
If you have the Coalition war campaign book you chould try do do an all coalition team,that way your player will still have a nice variaty of caracter class to chose from but you also shield your self from alot a abuse and power gaming.
The problem there is the question of wether or not they've gone rogue already. Frankly you couldn't pay me enough money to play a character still loyal to the CS.
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I love the idea of Rifts...hate the execution. You come up with an idea for a character and it turns out a Scholar is the best fit. IF you don't min/max it you are toast when that Extra-Dimensional, Magic, Alien whatchamacallit attacks you.
One word...GROUP TEMPLATE!
Use it, know it and games work better.
There you go.
I love the idea of Rifts...hate the execution. You come up with an idea for a character and it turns out a Scholar is the best fit. IF you don't min/max it you are toast when that Extra-Dimensional, Magic, Alien whatchamacallit attacks you.
One word...GROUP TEMPLATE!
Use it, know it and games work better.
How does it actually help?
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does it actually help?
Gets you all on the same page. In the pod cast they used the example of EVERYONE playing a character that is part of a band of traveling soldiers...but there is ONE guy who wants to play a tavern owner who doens't want to travel.
For me it helps my players set up ground rules of what they are trying to do. For example...okay lets get started...we need good or neutral aligned characters. More humans then anything...any class but you have to have a reason to be in the area. Either you are from there you work here now but you are not "passing through". From there they come up with the party. Its a way of orgaizing thoughts. In Rifts what if you are playing a Coalition Recon unit and you have one guy who doesn't get it and has a Dragon hatchling or something odd.
Like I said...helps get everyone on board with what the game is going to be about. You can set up how people know each other instead of the stero typical...you are in a tavern. You can have it so they know each other because of X rather then it is because the have a floating green PC lable over their head that you and the other PC's can see.
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It's funny how many of us love the setting; hate the rules for RIFTS.Hate is... probably a bit strong. The rules do have serious issues; worse than even the most "broken" complaints about 3.x, IMO.
This is more about the paladium rules then rifts as it was in a macross game, but I will never forget have some invid attack a city, and alpha pilot fly by at mach 2, sit 1 mile away and fire missiles until it died, staying completley out of gun range.
Rifts great fluff, needs better rules. I heard the author won't even talk about a different ruleset, and that he like things the way they are.
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Well when you think that the rules set that you designed is the end all and be all of RPGs why would you feel the need to switch. My biggest problem is that they send so much time and money to have lawyers send cease and decist notices to every conversion website out there that their books end up way over priced.
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I'm hoping to revisit Rifts by using a mish-mash of Mutants and Masterminds, M&M Warriors and Warlocks and the M&M Mecha and Manga (for advanced power armors) supplements when the latter two are released.
Most of the OCCs could be easily replicated with Archetypes, and things like Juicers, Cyber-Knights, and various RCCs could be reproduced via creative power point distribution and power arrays.
I tend to believe that making the player power band reasonably small could reduce alot of the Munchkinism of the setting - ie; have all player OCCs and RCCs being in the 7-10 Power level, and even that might be a little high.
I have not had a lot of experience with M&M, but it seems the Power Levels should keep a fairly decent lid on most munchkinism. As long as everyone is the same Power Level, I do not think you would need to worry about it.
I loved playing Rifts and I never really found an issue between power levels. Everything had it's strength and weaknesses. Glitterboys were awesome artillery but kinda weak close up (vampire suicide bombers made short work of the only Glitterboy I ever played with).
The non-combat classes are vitally important, if your group uses tech you need a Fixer, we always had a use for Rogue Scholars. Power levels aren't quite as important in Rifts as they are in D&D.
Just go into it knowing it can be a bit gonzo crazy and everything should work out.
I've played and ran numerous games and things tended to balance out.
I never had any issues with Mega-Damage either. Don't get hit when you're not in armor (really, try not to get hit at all, it's hard to repair armor in the middle of nowhere, though that's where spare parts and the Fixer comes in).
What I do enjoy about the system is the flexibility. Because not everything is quantified it's easier for a GM to just go with those crazy ideas players have (you want to wire two 4d6x10 fusion blocks to a clip of 8 1d6x10 grenades from your grenade launcher, with a 15 second timer? Sure, make your skill check).
Yeah, I had a GM in a Rifts campaign let a guy roll up a character similar to Claymore from Wetworks, except that he had fusion packs strapped to his legs instead of claymore mines.
That is the really fun part of Rifts. "You want to be a what? Alright."
I ran a game where the guy playing the Crazy had a Mega Damage Yo-yo. I was in awe of the things he thought of doing with it.
I have one player in my group that is just dying to try Rifts. I've never run it before and I have heard that it is a pain to do. Has anyone else run Rifts, and if so, how well does it work from the GM end?
The biggest issue I had with Rifts was the prep work. NPC's took a while to make (skills especially), working out all of the various bonus' and the circumstances they applied was also time consuming.
Also, creature entries will list under spell knowledge that it knows all spells levels 1-12. That's a lot of magic to read up on. I usually just picked a few spells and based its tactics on them (Carpet of Adhesion is a great staple).
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Like I said I loved the setting, but the prep time was a killer, they were supposed to come out with that computer accessory to help with that, but they never did...so I bought a few books after that, but meh, I just started spending my money elsewhere...
Imagine how many more books he'd sell if he did a d20 conversion...WOW...
Imagine how many more books he'd sell if he did a d20 conversion...WOW...
That's not going to happen, considering what went on when Primal Order was published.
I haven't heard this story. What happened?
The short version is that Palladium and WotC got into a nasty legal battle. Since then, Palladium has been extremely sensitive (as you've posted regarding their reaction to conversion sites) and would probably go out of business before they did anything to "help" WotC (and d20 is part of WotC).
