As a former high school teacher, I'd be all in favor of mandatory service for the kids who refused to to anything else -- a couple hours a week spent helping the community wouln't kill them. About half of my students kept up with their homework and were also into sports, family activities, church, part-time jobs, and possibly junior ROTC involvement (many kids with all of the above). The other half did no homework, no sports, no work... they did nothing, apparently, except watch Jerry Springer, play video games, and breed.
If the bill provided mandatory activities only for the kids who didn't already have activities, sort of a "get off your fat lazy ass" bill... well, that's no substitute for involved parents, but, sadly, many kids lack those (they have only chromosome donors, not actual parents). The trick would be to make sure that the kids with jobs, etc. got kept off the list.
Kirth, it's not up to the state to determine who's "lazy" and should be forced into this or who has enough activities and should be exempt. Any kind of forced labor on children in the name of the state is wrong. The Democrats and Republicans who voted for this should be voted out of office.
Could you imagine if Bush tried something like this? LOL!I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet. Scary stuffYep, nothing says "liberty" like compulsive service.
Sorry for the brash tone, but did you all actually read what the article said?
From the article (emphasis mine):
"Under section 6104 of the bill, entitled “Duties,” in subsection B6, the legislation states that a commission will be set up to investigate, “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”
Section 120 of the bill also discusses the “Youth Engagement Zone Program” and states that “service learning” will be “a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency.”"
First, for now they are only going to see whether it's a viable thing to implement.
Second, it's mandatory while you're at school... oh how scary, MANDATORY at SCHOOL! I mean, it's not as if they have other mandatory things at school... oh wait, they do, like showing up for your freakin' classes!
And the mandatory part is that they have to get to know more about the various volunteer corps they can join afterwards ("service learning").
And what additional corps do they plan on making for all of these possible volunteers?
"Clean Energy Corps, Education Corps, Healthy Futures Corps and Veterans Service Corps, and it expands the National Civilian Community Corps to focus on additional areas like disaster relief and energy conservation."
Oh the horror of it all!
Seriously, these are all GOOD tm things!
EDIT: Damn, ninjaed several times. Must write less and post faster! :-p
Sorry, I have to disagree. The government's job isn't to be a surrogate parent. This is a slippery slope, without a doubt. Now, if they would pass a "you're a douchebag unfit to spawn, here's your vasectomy/tube tying" law, I might suspend my love of civil liberties for a second...
Keeping idiots from breeding would be my top choice, but that'll never pass. Barring that, making at least a token effort to turn some of the moochers into productive citizens sure would be nice.
If there are no real parents and no surrogate parents, then it's nobody's job, and these kids are exactly the ones who go on to clog the welfare rolls and demand a nanny state -- you know, the ones we're always yelling should take charge of their lives and make their own decisions. Guess what? They have no experience doing anything or making any decisions; they CAN'T do what we want them to do. If an hour a day of mandatory community service for 4 years in high school kept them off a 40-hour-a-week welfare roll for the next 40 years, it would be well worth it. A few hours now vs. more votes for a nanny state later... think of it that way.
What's scary is that people get suckered by something from InfoWars.
As I stated earlier the story is correct. Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).
While I am very Libertarian leaning myself, I wouldn't mind this idea if there was the element of choice. Perhaps you had to serve a term of service to your country in order to qualify for any government funds, grants, scholarships, etc? Mayhap if you didn't serve you couldn't go on welfare?
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Second, it's mandatory while you're at school... oh how scary, MANDATORY at SCHOOL! I mean, it's not as if they have other mandatory things at school... oh wait, they do, like showing up for your freakin' classes!
Too bad learning, oh, math, science, grammar, history and any number of other subjects isn't mandatory. But, you know, spending class time on things not directly related to being literate and able to add 2 + 2 is so much more important.
Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).
I'd call The New York Times a "liberal news source."
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Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).I'd call The New York Times a "liberal news source."
Kind of Ironic that 70 of the republicans voted for it as well.
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Sorry, I have to disagree. The government's job isn't to be a surrogate parent. This is a slippery slope, without a doubt. Now, if they would pass a "you're a douchebag unfit to spawn, here's your vasectomy/tube tying" law, I might suspend my love of civil liberties for a second...Keeping idiots from breeding would be my top choice, but that'll never pass. Barring that, making at least a token effort to turn some of the moochers into productive citizens sure would be nice.
If there are no real parents and no surrogate parents, then it's nobody's job, and these kids are exactly the ones who go on to clog the welfare rolls and demand a nanny state -- you know, the ones we're always yelling should take charge of their lives and make their own decisions. Guess what? They have no experience doing anything or making any decisions; they CAN'T do what we want them to do. If an hour a day of mandatory community service for 4 years in high school kept them off a 40-hour-a-week welfare roll for the next 40 years, it would be well worth it. A few hours now vs. more votes for a nanny state later... think of it that way.
Minor problem. Won't work. After that hour, the same kids are STILL in the same situation they were in before, are still not learning the stuff they ALREADY go to school for, still don't have good parents (or, God forbid, they have foster parents. Fate worse than death, that), and are still not going to be able to hold down a good job.
Eh, whatever. Let's just hand everything over to the government at once, instead of taking half-ass stumble steps towards an authoritative state. It'll save me an ulcer and allow me to focus on loading explosive rounds for the revolution...
Second, it's mandatory while you're at school... oh how scary, MANDATORY at SCHOOL! I mean, it's not as if they have other mandatory things at school... oh wait, they do, like showing up for your freakin' classes!Too bad learning, oh, math, science, grammar, history and any number of other subjects isn't mandatory. But, you know, spending class time on things not directly related to being literate and able to add 2 + 2 is so much more important.
They all have been in the schools I've attended... but wait, I also live in that almost communistic part of the world called Europe. ;-)
Also, the basics are mandatory, at least taking the classes I'm sure, whether they actually learn anything from attending those classes is an all together different story. ;-)Generally the education system in most countries could use plenty more resources, though (and resources with accountability - not just "throwing money at the problem" - and I'm not talking about test scores, that just puts the focus on getting good at those specific tests, not education in general).
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Kind of Ironic that 70 of the republicans voted for it as well.Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).I'd call The New York Times a "liberal news source."
Ironic? Only if you think there's a whiff of difference between the two parties, civil liberties-wise.
Ironic? Only if you think there's a whiff of difference between the two parties, civil liberties-wise.Kind of Ironic that 70 of the republicans voted for it as well.Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).I'd call The New York Times a "liberal news source."
Regarding the bill you still have lots of liberties. No one is forcing you to send your children to one of the schools who might be part of the program (if, and that's a big if, they even decide to go ahead with it in the first place).
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Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).I'd call The New York Times a "liberal news source."
You saw my explanation for the NYT finally acting like a real news source lately, right? ;)
"throwing money at the problem"Unfortunately, this is all we do in America. With zero accountability.
And it even pained my bleeding socialistic heart to hear about the lack of accountability in the bail outs... but hey, they did the same thing over here (bailed out banks, who then still gave huge bonuses to their management, while firing grunts on the lowest level).
Granted, we also have a right of the middle government in place at the moment, I happily place all blame on them. ;-)|
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Regarding the bill you still have lots of liberties. No one is forcing you to send your children to one of the schools who might be part of the program (if, and that's a big if, they even decide to go ahead with it in the first place).Ironic? Only if you think there's a whiff of difference between the two parties, civil liberties-wise.Kind of Ironic that 70 of the republicans voted for it as well.Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).I'd call The New York Times a "liberal news source."
Um, if you live in that school district, and cannot afford private school, yes, you do. And the party in power is VERY opposed to vouchers to allow parents to shop for a good school.
Even the school Obama's kids go to lost students because Congress axed D.C.'s voucher program, passed when Republicans ran the show. Can't have the unwashed masses rubbing elbows with their kids, you know.
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"throwing money at the problem"Unfortunately, this is all we do in America. With zero accountability.And it even pained my bleeding socialistic heart to hear about the lack of accountability in the bail outs... but hey, they did the same thing over here (bailed out banks, who then still gave huge bonuses to their management, while firing grunts on the lowest level).
Granted, we also have a right of the middle government in place at the moment, I happily place all blame on them. ;-)
You're in Germany or Italy? :)
Ironic? Only if you think there's a whiff of difference between the two parties, civil liberties-wise.Kind of Ironic that 70 of the republicans voted for it as well.Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).I'd call The New York Times a "liberal news source."
Agreed. There was a time Republicans protected us from this kind of stuff but not anymore. They're becoming part of the problem as well. I think I might be joining you in the Libertarian party.
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Agreed. There was a time Republicans protected us from this kind of stuff but not anymore. They're becoming part of the problem as well. I think I might be joining you in the Libertarian party.Ironic? Only if you think there's a whiff of difference between the two parties, civil liberties-wise.Kind of Ironic that 70 of the republicans voted for it as well.Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).I'd call The New York Times a "liberal news source."
Welcome aboard! Unfortunatly, the LP needs fixin' too. Need to run all the posers out.
Let's just hand everything over to the government at once, instead of taking half-ass stumble steps towards an authoritative state.
If you'd been that scathing of the Patriot Act as well, I'd be with you 100%... as it is, we're pretty close already.
You're in Germany or Italy? :)"throwing money at the problem"Unfortunately, this is all we do in America. With zero accountability.And it even pained my bleeding socialistic heart to hear about the lack of accountability in the bail outs... but hey, they did the same thing over here (bailed out banks, who then still gave huge bonuses to their management, while firing grunts on the lowest level).
Granted, we also have a right of the middle government in place at the moment, I happily place all blame on them. ;-)
I believe he's Danish.
You're in Germany or Italy? :)"throwing money at the problem"Unfortunately, this is all we do in America. With zero accountability.And it even pained my bleeding socialistic heart to hear about the lack of accountability in the bail outs... but hey, they did the same thing over here (bailed out banks, who then still gave huge bonuses to their management, while firing grunts on the lowest level).
Granted, we also have a right of the middle government in place at the moment, I happily place all blame on them. ;-)
Nope, Denmark. :-)
Our Crown Prince just did a "tour" of the US, trying to drum up business for Danish renewable energy companies over there (totally useless piece of info, but there you have it).
I believe he's Danish.
Cherry or cheese? Mmmmmmm! Danish!
"Ich bin ein Berliner!"|
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Let's just hand everything over to the government at once, instead of taking half-ass stumble steps towards an authoritative state.If you'd been that scathing of the Patriot Act as well, I'd be with you 100%... as it is, we're pretty close already.
I was locked up during the Patriot Act debate. My opinion of it is rather less than printable.
And don't get me started on airports...
And don't get me started on airports...
You mean the fact that they can read all my email without a warrant, but I can still smuggle an Abrams tank and a marching band through airport security without any noticeable difficulty?
And if anyone else has been told they need a TWIC card, can they please explain to me how that system doesn't make it EASIER for terrorists to infiltrate our ports?
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You're in Germany or Italy? :)"throwing money at the problem"Unfortunately, this is all we do in America. With zero accountability.And it even pained my bleeding socialistic heart to hear about the lack of accountability in the bail outs... but hey, they did the same thing over here (bailed out banks, who then still gave huge bonuses to their management, while firing grunts on the lowest level).
Granted, we also have a right of the middle government in place at the moment, I happily place all blame on them. ;-)Nope, Denmark. :-)
Our Crown Prince just did a "tour" of the US, trying to drum up business for Danish renewable energy companies over there (totally useless piece of info, but there you have it).
I watched two Danish films, one a sequel of the other, about drug dealers and car thieves in Copenhagen. Great movies, but I cannot remember the names. One focused on a heroin dealer, the other on his friend, the son of a crime boss.
It was strange to listen to, though, it's almost like Danish is a mash-up of German and English with a few other influences as well. I almost didn't have to read the subtitles.
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And don't get me started on airports...You mean the fact that they can read all my email without a warrant, but I can still smuggle an Abrams tank and a marching band through airport security without any noticeable difficulty?
You mean because they're too busy beating the crap out of grandma for daring to try and bring Aspercream on the plane?
You mean because they're too busy beating the crap out of grandma for daring to try and bring Aspercream on the plane?
Or confiscating my bottle opener because it's "obviously a weapon"? (never mind that I could more efficiently kill someone with the drinking straw they give me on the flight...)
Let's just hand everything over to the government at once, instead of taking half-ass stumble steps towards an authoritative state.If you'd been that scathing of the Patriot Act as well, I'd be with you 100%... as it is, we're pretty close already.I was locked up during the Patriot Act debate. My opinion of it is rather less than printable.
And don't get me started on airports...
I'm for it. Am I automatically kicked out of the Libertarian party? :)
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And don't get me started on airports...You mean the fact that they can read all my email without a warrant, but I can still smuggle an Abrams tank and a marching band through airport security without any noticeable difficulty?
And if anyone else has been told they need a TWIC card, can they please explain to me how that system doesn't make it EASIER for terrorists to infiltrate our ports?
Man, don't scare me. You know, one good sized bomb goes off in the Ship Channel, half of Deer Park is dead.
Don't make me go all "redneck" and bring a case of Lone Star on Saturday ;)Why not try Polgamy Porter instead. In fact pick up a case and take some home to the wives.
This beer is pretty damned tasty as well. I live in Utah, and can buy it at my supermarket. Wasatch beers makes some great beer.
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I'm for it. Am I automatically kicked out of the Libertarian party? :)Let's just hand everything over to the government at once, instead of taking half-ass stumble steps towards an authoritative state.If you'd been that scathing of the Patriot Act as well, I'd be with you 100%... as it is, we're pretty close already.I was locked up during the Patriot Act debate. My opinion of it is rather less than printable.
And don't get me started on airports...
No, but we will have to send you to a re-education camp. Don't worry, though, it's just the complete "Cheech and Chong" collection on DVD. :)
I'm for it. Am I automatically kicked out of the Libertarian party? :)
Depends. If you've read the full text, and think it's OK that the president has the power of determination of "enemy combatant" status without review, and that a president you are critical of can, legally, now throw you in prison (without the right of Habeas Corpus, mind you, because you're now an "enemy combatant" instead of a U.S. citizen) and hold you indefinitely without trial? If the thought of, say, Obama with that kind of power over you makes you sleep better at night, then maybe Libertarianism isn't your style.
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I'm for it. Am I automatically kicked out of the Libertarian party? :)Depends. If you've read the full text, and think it's OK that the president has the power of determination of "enemy combatant" status without review, and that a president you are critical of can, legally, now throw you in prison (without the right of Habeas Corpus, mind you, because you're now an "enemy combatant" instead of a U.S. citizen)? If the thought of, say, Obama with that kind of power makes you sleep better at night, then maybe Libertarianism isn't your style.
And.....what he said.
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What's scary is that people get suckered by something from InfoWars.As I stated earlier the story is correct. Do some research and you can find it anywhere(except the liberal news sources of course).
Yes. It is correct that Bill H.R 1388 was passed. What isn't correct is the slant given to it by InfoWars, a site run by notorious conspiracy nut Alex Jones. It's typical conspiracy nonsense really. Something taken out of context then exploded out of all proportion.
I watched two Danish films, one a sequel of the other, about drug dealers and car thieves in Copenhagen. Great movies, but I cannot remember the names. One focused on a heroin dealer, the other on his friend, the son of a crime boss.
It was strange to listen to, though, it's almost like Danish is a mash-up of German and English with a few other influences as well. I almost didn't have to read the subtitles.
I believe he's Danish.Cherry or cheese? Mmmmmmm! Danish!
"Ich bin ein Berliner!"
More like these... Mmmm, cinnamon rolls with custard... :-p
I'm for it. Am I automatically kicked out of the Libertarian party? :)Depends. If you've read the full text, and think it's OK that the president has the power of determination of "enemy combatant" status without review, and that a president you are critical of can, legally, now throw you in prison (without the right of Habeas Corpus, mind you, because you're now an "enemy combatant" instead of a U.S. citizen) and hold you indefinitely without trial? If the thought of, say, Obama with that kind of power over you makes you sleep better at night, then maybe Libertarianism isn't your style.
I realize that parts of the Patriot Act need to be changed but it's been an overall success. There's no denying that.
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Sounds like the Pusher movies - there are 3 of them.I watched two Danish films, one a sequel of the other, about drug dealers and car thieves in Copenhagen. Great movies, but I cannot remember the names. One focused on a heroin dealer, the other on his friend, the son of a crime boss.
It was strange to listen to, though, it's almost like Danish is a mash-up of German and English with a few other influences as well. I almost didn't have to read the subtitles.
Three? I wonder if the third keeps up the quality.
Being an ex-con, I really appreciated the feeling that it was really happening. The movies (the two I saw, anyway) were tone-perfect. So, score one for the Danish movie dudes and dudettes!
It's typical conspiracy nonsense really. Something taken out of context then exploded out of all proportion.
Haven't you heard? Obama is the next Hitler. I thought Bush was, but meh, it is all the fashion these days.
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From the article (emphasis mine):
"Under section 6104 of the bill, entitled “Duties,” in subsection B6, the legislation states that a commission will be set up to investigate, “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”Section 120 of the bill also discusses the “Youth Engagement Zone Program” and states that “service learning” will be “a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency.”"
First, for now they are only going to see whether it's a viable thing to implement.
Translation:
First, for now, they are only going to figure out ways to sell it to people, and if necessary, enforce it, on people.Second, it's mandatory while you're at school... oh how scary, MANDATORY at SCHOOL! I mean, it's not as if they have other mandatory things at school... oh wait, they do, like showing up for your freakin' classes!
And the mandatory part is that they have to get to know more about the various volunteer corps they can join afterwards ("service learning").
And what additional corps do they plan on making for all of these possible volunteers?
"Clean Energy Corps, Education Corps, Healthy Futures Corps and Veterans Service Corps, and it expands the National Civilian Community Corps to focus on additional areas like disaster relief and energy conservation."
Oh the horror of it all!Seriously, these are all GOOD tm things!
AMENDMENT XIII
Passed by Congress January 31, 1865. Ratified December 6, 1865.Note: A portion of Article IV, section 2, of the Constitution was superseded by the 13th amendment.
Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
School is not involuntary servitude. No work for hire is required. The only such that exists are purely voluntary extra-curricular activities like sports teams, musical performancesm and a few academic competition teams.
Everything listed involves actual labor that would otherwise have to be paid for. Barring individual trials for actual crimes with legitimate convinctions, that makes any of that unconstitutional.
Overt violations of the Constitution are never a Good Thing (TM).
Someone should explain to Congress the difference between the words "enforce" and "subvert".
School is not involuntary servitude. No work for hire is required.
How is it not? We make them do useless work of all kinds -- geometric proofs, etc. -- that they would never do of their own free will. Yes, they can refuse to turn in assignments (and fail), but they could just as easily refuse to do anything at the "community workshop" class as well (and fail that class). If the academic vs. active work is an important distinction for some reason, remember Phys Ed class -- also mandatory. And, yes, Michael Jordan got paid to play basketball, whereas our poor oppressed youth are being forced to do it for free! Why not abolish school altogether and really "give the kids their freedom back," and see what kind of adults they become?
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All you right-wingers and conservatives out there should try this quiz. Or you can take one of the two quizs here, whether you are liberal or conservative. I am either a log cabin conservative or a fiscal conservative, depending on what quiz you take. If you are not sure what you are On The Issues will help you find out.
edit: For the record, On the issues has me as a Libertarian-Leaning Conservative.
According to it I'm a 100% libertarian take that Dereck
According to the liberal test I'm a new left hipster
And the last test has me as a flag waving everyman.
The last quiz says I'm firmly in the "Moderate" square in the middle (mostly because I thought the answer to 90% of the questions should be "it depends on the actual situation"), tending towards libertarian. Maybe I'll form my own Centrist Party?
Yikes, if I were more liberal I'd be a "reality-based intellectualist." Oh, well... I accept the fist part of that description wholeheartedly. If I were a tad more conservative, apparently I'd be an "anti-government gunslinger."
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Sorry, I have to disagree. The government's job isn't to be a surrogate parent. This is a slippery slope, without a doubt. Now, if they would pass a "you're a douchebag unfit to spawn, here's your vasectomy/tube tying" law, I might suspend my love of civil liberties for a second...Keeping idiots from breeding would be my top choice, but that'll never pass. Barring that, making at least a token effort to turn some of the moochers into productive citizens sure would be nice.
What about just a bill that lets every citizen give the Octo-mom a swift kick to the stomach, I think everyone can support that bill.
If every citizen is too harsh, I'll step forward as the sole kicker and just kick her hard enough to ensure she can never breed again.