I'm trying to convert Chapter Five to 4E. In fact I have done (stealing much of Fantomas' excellent work in the process). But I'm still really struggling with the final fight.
Nabthatoron is the Lord of the Demonskar. He's the legendary demon who lead an army against Surabar Spellmason. He should be an epic foe. And in 4E glazberu are suitably 23rd level elite demons. this seems suitable nasty to me. However a 23rd level elite demon would rip apart a 9th level party as has been agreed by all those interested in the 4E conversion. So many people are downsizing the glabrezu to a fight that 9th level PCs can win. Although this is good for keeping the campaign inline with the HC as written I am not happy with the approach of reducing Nab's power.
So, my question is: Do the PCs really need to defeat Nabthatoron during the final fight of Chapter Five?
If Nab's only purpose is to kill Alek (I don't have access to the HC right now so I can't check it up), then surely he could fight the PCs and Alek as written in the module, and concentrate all his attacks on Alek and then when Alek is dead/mortally wounded, Nab could happily teleport back to his lair in the bottom of the Demonskar (I'm happy allowing my special/powerful 4E demons to teleport even if its not in their stat block).
Benefits to having him not fight the PCs:
1. A recurring villain. I can never get enough of these and I think they make much more memorable encounters than one shots.
2. Nabthatoron can still be 23rd level elite and therefore one seriously nasty monster as befits the Lord of the Demonskar.
3. He can always summon in a bunch of suitable powered lesser demons to "finish off the pesky PCs" - hence the PCs get a suitable battle.
4. In my campaign the paladin Morgan is Alek's cousin who is going to inherit his falling down mansion and his title upon Alek's death, so the party can officially be given Alek's gear as a treasure reward for this part of the adventure.
Am I missing something or am I right in thinking that Nab doesn't have to fight the PCs at this time? What exactly is his purpose in killing Alek?
Thanks all
B
So, my question is: Do the PCs really need to defeat Nabthatoron during the final fight of Chapter Five?
What exactly is his purpose in killing Alek?
According to the SCAP, Nab does not want Alek rescued, as he has been trying to get Cauldron to attack Redgorge, weakening the mining town so he can attack and take it, completing his required task. Of course, once Alek is killed by Nab, the adventure allows for the group to notify Cauldron, stopping the attack anyway.
If instead you use the Seige of Redgorge sideplot, then the killing of Alek does not stop the march of Cauldron, and Nab will attack Redgorge after the Blue Duke and Terseon do.
So the first question should be: Does Nab need to appear at all at the outpost in the Sea of Dust? In my 3.5 game, I had a Hezrou attack Alek, as I saved Nab for the Seige. Specifically, Nab wanted Alek dead as I introduced a prophecy whereby while a descendant of Spellmason and/or a Paladin of St Cuthbert defended Redgorge's walls, it would never fall to the demons. (Spellmason's ancestor had been a paladin that traveled to Mount Celestia and was given Adimarchus's sword Crescentia)
I agree that Nab can teleport away after killing Alek. (In my game though, the cleric cast Dimensional Anchor, preventing the Hezrou from retreating, so be aware that PCs can interfere with a retreat)
Hmmm, I'm probably not going to run the Seige of Redgorge (good as it looks) if for no other reason than this campaign is already massive and adding more to it seems a tad like overkill. At the moment I'm using auto levelling up at certain stages of the AP and adding in a whole extra adventure of that scale with no experience reward might prove frustrating to the PCs. Having said that I might move towards 30 levels for the AP in stead of 20 (I'm running SCAP 4E) and this might make the Seige a nice interlude. We'll see.
Anyway, given that I'm not planning on running Seige I don't think Nab will be turning up there. But I do plan on having him battle the PCs at some stage in the campaign as he's such an architypal villain (a legendary foe like this need to be battled at some stage). So in fact, him ripping Alek limb from limb in Chapter 5 and the PCs actually attacking him during that fight (plus taking some residual damage from his area attacks) is some great foreshadowing of the main demon and also goes to show them just how powerful he is. It should set them up for revenge when they reach an appropriate level - somewhere towards the end of the Path if I stick to a 20th level version, or somewhere in the not so distant future if I go for a 30th level version.
Hmmm, I'm probably not going to run the Seige of Redgorge (good as it looks) if for no other reason than this campaign is already massive and adding more to it seems a tad like overkill. At the moment I'm using auto levelling up at certain stages of the AP and adding in a whole extra adventure of that scale with no experience reward might prove frustrating to the PCs. Having said that I might move towards 30 levels for the AP in stead of 20 (I'm running SCAP 4E) and this might make the Seige a nice interlude. We'll see.
Anyway, given that I'm not planning on running Seige I don't think Nab will be turning up there. But I do plan on having him battle the PCs at some stage in the campaign as he's such an architypal villain (a legendary foe like this need to be battled at some stage). So in fact, him ripping Alek limb from limb in Chapter 5 and the PCs actually attacking him during that fight (plus taking some residual damage from his area attacks) is some great foreshadowing of the main demon and also goes to show them just how powerful he is. It should set them up for revenge when they reach an appropriate level - somewhere towards the end of the Path if I stick to a 20th level version, or somewhere in the not so distant future if I go for a 30th level version.
I also skipped the Redgorge siege. My reason was that I found the resulting battle too complicated and too much time consuming (we are playing almost 3 years now, just reached chapter 11 in 105 sessions).
About the battle of Nabthatoron and the death of Alek have a look at this thread. Nab was already foreshadowed during the Flood Season Ball (amazing work from Delvesdeep) Although Nab could have killed the PC's, he focused his attention on Alek, killed him and ripped his head off to prevent an easy raise dead.They met Nab again at the end of chapter 9, foundation of the flame. Informed by the Cagewrights that the time was ripe to conquer Redgorge (Cauldron would fall as soon as the permanent portal was established) Nab marched to Redgorge with an army of 2 hezrou lieutenants, a dozen babaus, 6 vrocks and 100 dretches. Just before they reached their destination they were spotted by the PC's. The resulting ambush of the PC's was devastating: Nab took massive damage in the surprise round, lost initiative in the next combat round and then was killed without having had one attack himself. Defeating his army was a peace of cake, ofcourse. My group was thrilled with the result, especially because of the first frustrating encounter, in which they could not save Alek. His head is now permently displayed at the town's square in Redgorge to great joy of the Redgorge population.
In other words don't wait too long with this encounter, otherwise the PC's are way too powerful for the poor Glabrezu.
Peter
That sounds like exactly the sort of thing I'm after in my campaign, thanks!
I also used DD's excellent Demonskar Ball, which was superb for explaining places like the Haunted Village and foreshadowing Redgorge and its huge bastion walls and of course the legendary Nab. In my Demonskar Ball the paladin of the party was given the Nabthatoron invite (and did awesomely well in the dance) so the party are well aware of the glazrebu demon and its legend.
I'm definitely going to leave Nab as a fully fledged 23rd level elite demon (4E here) which will make light work of Alek and then teleport back to his home - probably summoning in some demons to "finish off" the pesky PCs.
That of course is a good time for Kaurophon to arrive and help save the day...