This question came up in game. The will o' wisp has natural invisibility, an extraordinary ability. My stat block I was using just said natural invisibility, so the wisp did not become visible when attacking.
It was pointed out to me that the SRD states that it can become invisible as per the spell. Does this then include turning visible when attacking?
This question came up in game. The will o' wisp has natural invisibility, an extraordinary ability. My stat block I was using just said natural invisibility, so the wisp did not become visible when attacking.
It was pointed out to me that the SRD states that it can become invisible as per the spell. Does this then include turning visible when attacking?
What does the Monster Manual state on the matter is more important. ^_^
What does the Monster Manual state on the matter is more important. ^_^This question came up in game. The will o' wisp has natural invisibility, an extraordinary ability. My stat block I was using just said natural invisibility, so the wisp did not become visible when attacking.
It was pointed out to me that the SRD states that it can become invisible as per the spell. Does this then include turning visible when attacking?
The monster manual says the same thing. But I still don't know if they mean invisible as the spell in that it is invisible, or in that it turns visible upon attacking.
He stays invisible, as the Aerial servant.
Agreed. As a natural ability, it cannot be “dispelled.” Although it acts “as the spell,” it is not, in fact, a spell. A Pegasus can fly, as the spell, but you cannot dispel the ability. Not a perfect analogy, but you get my meaning. The reason I discuss dispelling is that this is what happens to invisibility when you attack – it is dispelled. This does not happen with natural abilities. It is a natural ability, right, and not a spell-like ability?
That is not to say that the PC’s don’t gain advantages in the next round to hit, spot, and such. Actually, I don’t know the rules flawlessly, but surly there must be Spot checks at play, and surely you must get bonuses on those rolls if you know the thing is there – well, there abouts.
He stays invisible, as the Aerial servant.
What is that? And why does it apply here?
As a natural ability, it cannot be “dispelled.” Although it acts “as the spell,” it is not, in fact, a spell. The reason I discuss dispelling is that this is what happens to invisibility when you attack – it is dispelled. This does not happen with natural abilities. It is a natural ability, right, and not a spell-like ability?
interesting interpretation. However, the spell reads as follows.
"If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear."
It doesn't say the spell is dispelled.
The ability that the will o wisp has reads as such.
"Natural Invisibility (Ex) A startled or frightened will-o’-wisp can extinguish its glow, effectively becoming invisible as the spell. "
You want to talk subjective, D&D rules absolutely are. Okay, then, in that case, the way I read it is the “effect” is the only thing that is “as the spell.” In other words, however the spell describes the spell effect (can’t see and difficulty to hit, etc.) that’s what applies to the wisp. I would say nothing else – not duration, dispellability (is that a word?) or the visibility when attacking.
The key here, for your purpose, is it is NOT a spell. It’s not even a spell-lie ability. It is a natural ability, like walking, or blinking.
And, push comes to shove, just plead Rule 0.
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I had it glowing while it shouted at the party, and invisible the rest of the time. I said it's natural state was invisible, except when it chose to appear as a glowing ball. (It got annoyed with people looking away from it when it was talking to them).
They mumbled a bit, cast Blindsight, made super spot rolls to notice the slight density variations where it had to be (threw them a bone), and blew it apart with magic missiles and lucky crits from weapons flailing through its square. It almost fried the fighter but the cleric, druid and spellthief with Cure wands kept him going.
Kind of an anticlimax really, but they were loaded up with blindsight type spells after choosing to fight the dracolisk (my basilisk) with blindfolds.
You want to talk subjective, D&D rules absolutely are. Okay, then, in that case, the way I read it is the “effect” is the only thing that is “as the spell.” In other words, however the spell describes the spell effect (can’t see and difficulty to hit, etc.) that’s what applies to the wisp. I would say nothing else – not duration, dispellability (is that a word?) or the visibility when attacking.
The key here, for your purpose, is it is NOT a spell. It’s not even a spell-lie ability. It is a natural ability, like walking, or blinking.
And, push comes to shove, just plead Rule 0.
I'm not worried about justifying anything to my players, although I do want to run the creature the way it was intended.
Rather, I'm a little concerned that a perfect flying, touch attacking, AC 30, permanently invisible creature is going to slaughter them all without a chance to retaliate. That isn't particularly fun for me or them.
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Is it like invisibility or greater invisibility? A Pixie (under sprite in MM) has greater invisibility all the time, so they can stay invisible while attacking. The wisp says "Invisible like the spell" so it's like invis, it appears when it attacks and has to take an action (standard like any spell or spellike ability) to re-invis, another example is a rogue with a ring of invisibility. My party had a hell of a time with it even though that's how my DM ran it. We don't have any arcane casters (closest we have is a warlock, oh look immune to magic). We got lucky since we had a player playing a troll (using savage species) at the time he got a crit, the triple damage but drop your weapon one, but he wields a large greatsword, so he did 9d6+39 and the bat thing did some damage to it (it killed the bat thing for us).
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Kind of an anticlimax really, but they were loaded up with blindsight type spells after choosing to fight the dracolisk (my basilisk) with blindfolds.
You want to talk about anticlimactic, in the AoW AP in the dracolich adventure one player who had a weapon of legend (he's had it since level one but only activated it at level 15, oh and I didn't run all the AP just the last 2 adventures in part of an ongoaing arch of mine) and the weapon was dread undead (epic level handbook as bane but epic). On the upside he never rolled a 20, until the dracolich. "When a dread weapon confirms a critical hit on the affected creature, even if it is not normally subjected to critical hits, it must make a DC 34 save or be destroyed." First strike, and the dracolich rolled a 1 on the fort save...*poof*
I'd spent time increasing the whole adventure to a higher level as they were 25 at the time.
He stays invisible, as the Aerial servant.
Sorry, I wanted to say: Invisible stalker.
The ability is SU and there is some precisions but I play Will o wisp the same way.
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Sorry, I wanted to say: Invisible stalker.
The main thing there is the invisible stalker's entry says, "Natural Invisibility (Su): This ability is constant, allowing a stalker to remain invisible even when attacking. This ability is inherent and not subject to the invisibility purge spell."
But the wisp says 'Natural Invisibility (Ex): A startled or frightened will-o’-wisp can extinguish its glow, effectively becoming invisible as the spell." The titles might be the same but it's two different powers. If a wisp could remain invisible while attacking it would state it there or in the errata. (and I checked MM errata goes from vampire to yuan-ti skipping W)
Seriously, you are making a hard fight harder then it actually is.
Mmmmmm....
May be you're right, I'll try to remember this when the Will'o'wisp will come in my SCAP.
Is it like invisibility or greater invisibility? A Pixie (under sprite in MM) has greater invisibility all the time, so they can stay invisible while attacking. The wisp says "Invisible like the spell" so it's like invis, it appears when it attacks and has to take an action (standard like any spell or spellike ability) to re-invis, another example is a rogue with a ring of invisibility. My party had a hell of a time with it even though that's how my DM ran it. We don't have any arcane casters (closest we have is a warlock, oh look immune to magic). We got lucky since we had a player playing a troll (using savage species) at the time he got a crit, the triple damage but drop your weapon one, but he wields a large greatsword, so he did 9d6+39 and the bat thing did some damage to it (it killed the bat thing for us).
Actually, as an extraordinary ability, it is a free action to activate unless otherwise stated, not a standard action.