Okay, here's a discussion thread we can use to get this thing started.
First, a few general statements. I intend to reuse this thread as a discussion thread as we move forward through the coming modules - obviously, this thread will therefore contain spoilers for the various modules we play. If you're interested in playing in the wider Heroes of Rokugan campaign, don't read this thread.
Okay, for those who are playing. I know some of you don't have books - as previously established, a "quickstart" version of the basic rules can be found here. Character creation is trickier, though. I see three options:
1) Buy the book. Despite the (admittedly really, really bad) editing problems of 3rd Ed Revised, it is also the best iteration of the L5R rules to date, and is the rules set we'll be using.
2) Go to the Heroes of Rokugan site and use one of their pregens. The left hand side of the screen has Clan pages for each major Clan, plus the Imperials and ronin. Each Clan page has a set of pregens in PDF format you can use to make your character, or to use as a starting point. I don't know if the pregens have been updated for the Revised version of 3rd Ed, but I don't think there would be many tweaks needed even if they haven't.
3) Let me make the character for you. We can discuss a concept, possibly via email for faster and more coherent communication, and I can do the numbers for you.
As of right now, we have four players:
Michael D. Moore - Kakita bushi (?)
Michi - Utaku Battle Maiden (?)
TerraNova - Matsu Ume, Akodo-trained bushi
Xaaon of Xen'drik - (?) shugenja (?)
So let's talk!
I'm considering buying a pdf of the 3rd edition book - I think it would certainly be useful to have. I'll probably see if I can get it later on today and start having a read through. :)
Hm.. it seems like only the original 3rd edition book is available for sale in pdf format. Is it still worth picking up and just using the conversion notes on the heroes website, or are there enough changes that I should wait and try and get a revised copy? (Not knowing the size of the book, I can't tell how much of the content has been revised)
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Hm.. it seems like only the original 3rd edition book is available for sale in pdf format. Is it still worth picking up and just using the conversion notes on the heroes website, or are there enough changes that I should wait and try and get a revised copy? (Not knowing the size of the book, I can't tell how much of the content has been revised)
The changes are widespread, but fairly subtle. I honestly think the best solution would be for AEG to issue errata, incorporate it into the PDF that's for sale, and then you could buy that, but it's been my impression that this is unlikely to occur. I'd leave it up to your discretion, I think, but buying the extant PDF and using the changes PDF from the HoR site is probably not a bad plan.
Hm.. it seems like only the original 3rd edition book is available for sale in pdf format. Is it still worth picking up and just using the conversion notes on the heroes website, or are there enough changes that I should wait and try and get a revised copy? (Not knowing the size of the book, I can't tell how much of the content has been revised)The changes are widespread, but fairly subtle. I honestly think the best solution would be for AEG to issue errata, incorporate it into the PDF that's for sale, and then you could buy that, but it's been my impression that this is unlikely to occur. I'd leave it up to your discretion, I think, but buying the extant PDF and using the changes PDF from the HoR site is probably not a bad plan.
Ok, thanks. My thinking was that I could pick up the pdf now, which is cheaper than the hardback (and has the advantage I can get it immediately), and then perhaps get the revised hardback at some later date if I decide I'd like to own a hard copy of the game afterall. Hopefully it shouldn't be too bad as long as I check the changes pdf before I use anything from a page in the 3e book. :)
Ah, you beat me over here.
Yes, a Mantis bushi would be fine. The pregen for the standard Yoritomo Bushi is here, and pretty much just needs a name.
That gives us a Kakita Duelist, an Utaku Battle Maiden, a Yoritomo Bushi, and a Mantis shugenja (of some variety) to get things going, and possibly an Akodo-trained Matsu and a Hida Berserker as well.
As written in the other thread... things piled up tonight. I'll give you the modified sheet on sunday, but right now I am really caught up preparing for a business trip.
No problem. Xaaon is also not going to be ready until after the weekend, so no harm done. Safe trip!
I have decided on a Kuni Shugenja, Something about a disheveled Shadowlands fighting shugenja...
I picked a Shosuro Yojimbo.
I figured every group needs someone sneaky.
Definitely going to go with an Utaku Battle Maiden. I've got the 3e book now, and have been reading through the setting stuff. I'll start looking at character creation mechanics soon. :)
Okay, recap then:
Mishi - Utaku Battle Maiden
Xaaon - Kuni Shugenja
TerraNova - Akodo-trained Matsu Bushi
Michael - Kakita Duelist
Ubermench - Shosuro Yojimbo
Looks like a nice, well-balanced group! Just FYI, Michael, you'll probably want to put a little emphasis into your courtly stuff (which should be right up your alley anyway), since you're the closest thing to a courtier the group has right now.
Definitely going to go with an Utaku Battle Maiden. I've got the 3e book now, and have been reading through the setting stuff. I'll start looking at character creation mechanics soon. :)
Just a reminder, the setting info in the base book is, from the perspective of this game, roughly 350 years out of date. Obviously, the social and cultural stuff is basically timeless (we still want it to be the same game, of course!), but the listing of who's a daimyo and what the current relationships between the Clans are is not going to be terribly relevant.
Yup, that's fine. It was mostly to get an idea of what the different clans are like, and what's happened in the past - really, just getting the feel of what Rokugan is like. :) I'll look at the heroes site for more current events.
I picked a Shosuro Yojimbo.
I figured every group needs someone sneaky.
Quite so!
Tamu (spoilered because it's not relevant to anyone else, not that it's a secret somehow):
As for the issue of the build... well, there's an Advantage in the game called "Crafty," which basically gives you a phantom Rank in *all* the ninja-type skills, including Anatomy, Deceit, Explosives, Forgery, Poison, Lore: Shadowlands, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Traps, and Underworld (which is your connection to unsavory criminal types). It only costs 4 points for Scorpion, and your Yojimbo really, really should have been given it, in my opinion. If you agree, I'd suggest lowering one of the Skills you have at 2 - Hunting or Battle, probably - to 1, and then buying the Crafty Advantage with the points you get. What do you think?
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Looks like a nice, well-balanced group! Just FYI, Michael, you'll probably want to put a little emphasis into your courtly stuff (which should be right up your alley anyway), since you're the closest thing to a courtier the group has right now.
Doesn't seem to be a problem to me. Cranes win in court anyway, don't they get like +10 mods just for being so Craney? :)
I wasn't able to get to my local store yesterday but today seems a fine day. Apparently I get to visit my bank anyway and it's right by my local gaming store so... Hopefully today I can get the book and glance over some of the rules.
I picked a Shosuro Yojimbo.
I figured every group needs someone sneaky.
Quite so!
Tamu (spoilered because it's not relevant to anyone else, not that it's a secret somehow):
** spoiler omitted **
I think I'll go with your suggestion, it fits my character concept better.
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Well it seems I won't be getting the rulebook anytime soon. Good thing I stopped at the bank, some issues with my account at the moment. Long story short, it will likely be January before I can get my hands on the book. Good news is my local store has three copies of the revised rules at $40CAN (seems a decent price to me) in hardback.
So Shisumo I'm not sure how difficult this will be but having you make my character seems the best option right now. A Kakita duelist with lots of courtly stuffs would be awesome. You can ask more questions if you like/need but I'm open to leaving all the details to you (it will help create the character a lot quicker).
I'm also open to using the stock Kakita duelist available at Heroes of Rokugan. I don't think it has lots of courtly stuffs though.
Below is a template you can use to format your character sheet in your character profile, if you would like...
Name
XX Clan (Bushi/Courtier/Shugenja)
School X
Insight XX
Air X
-- Awareness X
-- Reflexes X
Earth X
-- Willpower X
-- Stamina X
Fire X
-- Intelligence X
-- Agility X
Water X
-- Perception X
-- Strength X
Void X
-- Void Points X
Skills
Skill X
Skill X
Skill X (Emphasis, Emphasis)
Mastery Abilities
Skill: Mastery abilities
Advantages
Advantage (X pts)
Advantage (X pts)
Disadvantages
Disadvantage (X pts)
Disadvantage (X pts)
Techniques
Technique Name (summary of Technique’s benefits)
Spells
ML 1
--Spell Name (Element)
--Spell Name (Element)
--Spell Name (Element, Innate)
ML 2
--Spell Name (Element)
Honor X.X
Status X.X
Glory X.X
Combat
Weapon (Attack XkX+X; Damage XkX+X)
Weapon (Attack XkX+X; Damage XkX+X)
Initiative
XkX+X
TN to be Hit
XX, or XX in armor
Wounds
[ ] +0 (X)
[ ] +3 (X)
[ ] +5 (X)
[ ] +10 (X)
[ ] +15 (X)
[ ] +20 (X)
[ ] +40 (X)
[ ] Out (X)
Equipment
Also, all characters begin with a traveling pack. You can reselect the contents between mods, but spoilered below is some information about the traveling pack and what's in it.
Basket
Blacksmith's hammer
Blanket
Bottle of bleach or dye
Bottle of sake (rice wine)
Bottle of shochu (very strong liquor)
Bottle of water
Bucket
Candles (six)
Chopsticks
Coin purse
Cooking pot
Daisho stand
Divination kit (kawaru coins or yarrow sticks)
Fan
Finger of jade (counts as three items)
Fishing net or pole
Flint and tinder
Grapple hook
Incense brazier
Jewelry or accessory (netsuke, earring, eyepatch, bracelet)
Kiseru (smoking pipe)
Kubi bukuro (small netted bag for carrying bundori — heads and other enemy trophies)
Lantern
Lucky cricket (in small cage)
Makeup kit
Mask
Miniature go set or shogi set
Mortar and pestle.
Musical instrument (drum, shakuhachi, biwa, samisen; counts as two items)
Parchment and charcoal (10 pieces of each)
Perfume
Personal seal or chop
Pet (dog, cat, songbird, monkey; not suitable for combat; counts as two items)
Pillow book (small journal, story book, history book, or piece of famous literature)
Rope (50´)
Sake cup
Set of dice
Shovel
Small back banner
Small folding stool
Small hand mirror
Small knife (not suitable as a weapon)
Small painting or sculpture
Small statue of a Fortune or ancestor
Small tent
Snowshoes
Spare kimono and sandals
Spices
Straw cloak
Sumi-e (ink brush) kit
Sweets (small cakes, candies)
Tatami mat
Tattoo needles
Tea set
Vial of war paint
Walking stick
Week's supply of rations (rice balls or smoked fi sh)
Whetstone
Wicker umbrella
Wide-brimmed straw hat
Wig
Well here I am, thanks a lot Shisumo. Maybe it's just me but is it really difficult to find a character portrait that could work? Too bad I wasn't able to get the rule book today but oh well. Now I'm really looking forward to starting!
Well here I am, thanks a lot Shisumo. Maybe it's just me but is it really difficult to find a character portrait that could work? Too bad I wasn't able to get the rule book today but oh well. Now I'm really looking forward to starting!
Yes, absolutely. We need the Minkai or Tian Xia supplement to come out for the Pathfinder Chronicles setting - then we'd actually have some decent Asian faces to choose from...
FYI - Megumi's age is likely very, very high. One of the weird things about L5R is how young the PCs are. The Test of the Topaz Championship is your gempukku, or adulthood, ceremony - your characters are all likely between 13 and 16 years old.
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FYI - Megumi's age is likely very, very high. One of the weird things about L5R is how young the PCs are. The Test of the Topaz Championship is your gempukku, or adulthood, ceremony - your characters are all likely between 13 and 16 years old.
Ah, I had no idea. I can change that quickly enough, I figured 32 was relatively high but not by that much.
Re: your swords
Because this is a gempukku, or adulthood, ceremony, and because only full samurai - that is to say, adults - are supposed to be carrying daisho (that's the katana/wakizashi set that mark most bushi - shugenja and courtiers typically indicate their samurai status by wearing the wakizashi only, because wearing a katana means you're willing to respond to a challenge with an iaijutsu duel personally), the status of your swords is a little strange for this tournament. Unlike most gempukku (which occur at the student's home dojo), this tournament requires travel for most of you and is the most prestigious gempukku ceremony in the entire Empire. As a result, you have been allowed to carry your swords, in case of bandits and in order to represent the high level of respect you have earned by competing in it. Nevertheless, these swords are not yours yet. Assuming you pass the tests required of you, a formal ceremony at the tournament's end will give your swords to you officially. Until then you should treat them like you would if you were carrying your parent's gun - with all the respect they deserve, and then some. Make sure no one's sorry they let you have them early.
Exception: the Crab Clan
The Crab Clan are very particular about the requirements of their gempukku - a prospective samurai must enter the Shadowlands alone and return with the head of a Shadowlands beast, usually a goblin or some variety of undead. As a result, Crab characters like Heihachi (and Hida Nagatsuna, if he should happen by still) are assumed to have already completed their gempukku ceremonies back in the Crab lands, and to be full adults already - they are instead competing for the simple Glory of being in the Tournament of the Topaz Champion. As full adults, they have the right to wear their swords without any complications.
It is theoretically possible that other contestants, PCs or NPCs, might also be full adults who are entering the tournament for some specific reason, but it's not at all the default. I am assuming the rest of you are, in fact, still kids until the tournament is over.
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I managed to get my hands on a 'free' pdf of L5R 3ed, not a great pdf it's a scaned copy. I'm not sure how other people fell about sharing pdfs, but i can send it to anyone who needs one. To keep the file sharing off the Paizo boards send me your e-mail addresses to
Checking in with Yukari here. Haven't spent character points yet, but I have the basics from clan/school down. Just now, I've picked Brash and Haunted for disadvantages - Brash because I think it suits the character and Haunted because I liked the idea of having a disapproving minor ancestor pop up to tell her she's never going to be as good as her parents/grandparents were. I can change either of these if they'd be a problem.
The character idea I have in mind is a young, inexperienced battle maiden who's desperate to prove that she's worthy of the Utaku name and that she can be a great warrior, just like some of her distant ancestors. She doesn't think that just fighting bandits is enough to prove yourself and thinks that the enforced truce is holding her and her clan back, while the Scorpion gain more and more power and allow more and more criminals to flourish. It doesn't help that there's a disapproving ghost pointing out everything she does wrong (which currently, probably happens quite a lot.)
Hopefully, time will bring wisdom and restraint to her, but just now, she's pretty hot-headed.
Checking in with Yukari here. Haven't spent character points yet, but I have the basics from clan/school down. Just now, I've picked Brash and Haunted for disadvantages - Brash because I think it suits the character and Haunted because I liked the idea of having a disapproving minor ancestor pop up to tell her she's never going to be as good as her parents/grandparents were. I can change either of these if they'd be a problem.
The character idea I have in mind is a young, inexperienced battle maiden who's desperate to prove that she's worthy of the Utaku name and that she can be a great warrior, just like some of her distant ancestors. She doesn't think that just fighting bandits is enough to prove yourself and thinks that the enforced truce is holding her and her clan back, while the Scorpion gain more and more power and allow more and more criminals to flourish. It doesn't help that there's a disapproving ghost pointing out everything she does wrong (which currently, probably happens quite a lot.)
Hopefully, time will bring wisdom and restraint to her, but just now, she's pretty hot-headed.
All that looks awesome. Got any ideas about who the ancestor might be?
I was thinking probably a great-grandparent's sibling, or something similar. The ancestor would probably have been a battle maiden herself and therefore knows exactly what is required of such a warrior and would point out every little thing that Yukari does wrong, or doesn't do well enough.
Would you like me to come up with more details on the ancestor, or would you prefer to do that?
I was thinking probably a great-grandparent's sibling, or something similar. The ancestor would probably have been a battle maiden herself and therefore knows exactly what is required of such a warrior and would point out every little thing that Yukari does wrong, or doesn't do well enough.
Would you like me to come up with more details on the ancestor, or would you prefer to do that?
Gimme what you got. Particularly in case you ever decide to take Yukari to another HoR game, it would better if it were primarily your ideas...
I have decided on a Kuni Shugenja, Something about a disheveled Shadowlands fighting shugenja...
Couple of things for you:
All Craft skills are banned in the campaign except Craft: Sailing, so no Engineering, I'm afraid. I know, it annoys me too.
I have decided on a Kuni Shugenja, Something about a disheveled Shadowlands fighting shugenja...Couple of things for you:
** spoiler omitted **
OK I didn't see the STR 4 for the Ono, I might go with the Tetsubo and STR 2, I'll take the penalty, and I'll strike the craft(engineering) skill, it made sense for a crab tho...having spent time with the Kaiu.
I still have plenty to spend. heh.
And thanks for the template, that helped A LOT!
OK, I think Yukari is mostly done. Still need to decide on my last weapon, fill out ancestor stuff/background/appearance and pick a travelling kit, but hopefully the numbers are all ok. This is my first time generating a character, so if there's anything I've overlooked or done wrong, please let me know.
I am reworking him - hold please....... :)
OK I didn't see the STR 4 for the Ono, I might go with the Tetsubo and STR 2, I'll take the penalty, and I'll strike the craft(engineering) skill, it made sense for a crab tho...having spent time with the Kaiu.
Actually, the testubo has a Str minimum of 3 as well, and can't be wielded, even at a penalty, with Str 2, according to the rules. The only Heavy Weapon without a Str 3 minimum is the masakari, the one-handed axe.
And thanks for the template, that helped A LOT!
No problem!
One more rules thing, and a question: there is not, in fact, a "Wrestling" skill, though some versions of the rules make reference to one (thanks to AEG's brilliant editing); instead, you use the Jiujutsu skill, which you already have. If you want, you can use some of those points to buy a Grapple Emphasis in Jiujutsu, if you want to emphasize your wrestling ability - that would be 2 points, and you would still have 1 CP left to spend on something else.
The question is about Bad Sight - it's one of those Disads I tend to think of as being not worth the cost, because of the amount of penalties you suffer, and I was wondering what you might be wanting in choosing it?
O hai o fellow crab, this seems to be a good match.
wrestling? huh?
I took bad sight to get enough points to get other advantages and skills. It was better than missing eye to me, I hope my fellow samurai can spot things for me. Hopefully, I didn't gimp myself too much in the creation of this character, I had only ever played Bushi before. Shugenja are new to me.
OK, I think Yukari is mostly done. Still need to decide on my last weapon, fill out ancestor stuff/background/appearance and pick a travelling kit, but hopefully the numbers are all ok. This is my first time generating a character, so if there's anything I've overlooked or done wrong, please let me know.
No, it all looks good! Unless you want to make use of your Perception 3 and maybe buy a little Investigation, maybe via another Disad?
I'm wondering if there was anything else I needed to do aside from description and putting together my gear?
wrestling? huh?
Never mind, that was Nagatsuna. Shouldn't be posting this late, apparently. ;)
The problem with Bad Sight is that it affects attack rolls, among other things. Whether -2 dice is worse than a +5 TN, I'm not honestly sure. I'd suggest not going either, however - Doubt is a good 4 pt Disad that can be managed much easier. Doubt: Calligraphy might work... you won't have much luck copying your spell scrolls, but otherwise you likely wouldn't miss it, and most shugenja don't copy their scrolls anyway.
I'm wondering if there was anything else I needed to do aside from description and putting together my gear?
Some character background/history might be good; not sure if that's part of what you meant by description or not, but otherwise, no, you're pretty much ready to go.
I didn't like the look of doubt, it didn't fit his persona, I'll look at the disadvantages again.
Can I wield my Earth Tetsubo from the spell? Or should I choose a different spell?
Getting close to done now, I'm screwed in social situations, but hey, I'm a crab.
Can I wield my Earth Tetsubo from the spell? Or should I choose a different spell?
Honestly, I'm not sure - I've always made sure to give my Kuni Str 3, just so I didn't have to settle the question. But since you've got Katana of Fire, I would probably stick with that anyway - there's not a lot of reason to have both...
Also, Friendly Kami is on the banned list for Advantages. If you've got 1 more CP you could squeeze out somewhere, you could buy Blessing of the Elements: Earth instead...?
Insight:
Heroes of Rokugan uses a specific houserule on Insight. Your Insight is calculated in the usual way: (Total of Rings x10) + (ranks in Skills) + bonuses. However, Skills at Rank 1 do not count for Insight for any purpose. Buying a Skill at Rank 2 makes the skill cont at full value, but Rank 1 Skills are simply ignored. I would ask you all to adjust your totals accordingly...
I think I'm ready.
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Some character background/history might be good; not sure if that's part of what you meant by description or not, but otherwise, no, you're pretty much ready to go.
I'll have to see about getting all that done after work tonight. Hopefully I don't overwork my history and make it huge again, I've been known to do that.
Note to self: Remember to always check that you're posting in character when the game thread opens.
Ok, I've cut the Dojo and disadvantage, and did some minor surgery on the character history. Is this in ok shape now?
I think I'm ready.
Minor tweaks, mostly based on the shift from 3rd Ed to 3rd Ed Revised:
Insight: I’m coming up with an Insight of 128. EDIT: Oh, wait, I figured out why. It's the weirdness with the PDF calc. Like I say below, ignore that for now.
Note that the Crafty Advantage also increases your effective Poison and Stealth ranks by one each (the “phantom” ranks increase the skills you already have, as well as the ones you don’t).
Mastery Abilities: the Mastery Ability for Defense has changed – your TN to be hit is now always increased by twice your Defense Skill (unless you are in Full Attack or being attacked unawares); the new Defense 3 Mastery Ability is “May declare Full Defense before his initiative count on first round of combat.” Also, you have a couple of Mastery Abilities not listed on the original sheet. Iaijutsu 3: you have one additional Focus in an iaijutsu duel. Poison 3: You gain a Free Raise on Medicine skills to create antidotes, and poisons you make have +5 TN to resist. Also, ignore the “insight bonus” for now; the negative number is an artifact of how the PDF calculates Insight vs. the HoR house rules for calculating Insight. You might wind up with an Insight bonus later, however.
Techniques: The “Free Raise for Guarding and +6 TN when you do it” thing has been dropped from 3rd Ed Rev. Instead, you can share your Full Defense roll with one ally within 10 ft., and use Full Defense against a number of opponents equal to (Insight Rank + School Rank). Also, you’ve got a spoiler tag that didn’t close. ;)
Attacks: The first listed attack is your katana (Agility 3 + Kenjutsu 3 = 6k3, +3 for the Katana Emphasis). Your damage, however, is reduced by one rolled die because you are Small, and the sheet creator seems to have missed that. It should be 4k2. Your next best bet for an attack is likely your tanto, which uses your Knife skill and so would be 4k3 (damage 2k2).
Your initiative should be 5k3 (sheet author forgot Quick), and your TN to be Hit should be (Reflexes 3)x5 + (Defense 3)x2 = 21 (24 in armor). The TN change is a shift between editions.
That looks like everything. All he needs is a character history and background, and you’re ready to go!