So I was talking to my Godson the other day as he was playing the Force Unleashed (video game sadly, kids today) and I noticed that in the game Death Vader is having his new follower do a lot of the dirty work for him. So I started thinking about reading the novel, and looked up so reviews of the book. Well I started getting botherd by something, but couldn't really place a finger on it. Then I realized what it was.
Ben said "Darth Vader helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi"
Vader killed Ben in A New Hope
We see him about to kill a bunch of 5 year olds in Revenge of the Sith, but not the actual culling, as it were.
Maybe I have to see the movies again, I used to think I knew a lot about Star Wars, but I don't think Vaders ever killed a Jedi (other then Ben of course, but that was much Ben's choice as it was Vaders rage).
Is this Lucus making Vader not so evil, becuse its his redeption story? If so it shows why the Star Wars verse is losing its punch. I willing to admit I'm wrong here so I'm asking if anyone can give me examples in the novels (or whatever expanded verse media you'd want) in which Vader has hunted down and killed Jedi, The Force Unleashed seems to imply, though I have not started the book, that he does not do so in that book.
Has Vader killed any other Jedi?
|
Go here Anakin Skywalker: Wookiepedia
That shows who Darth Vader killed, if you scroll down a little to the bit 'Vader's most personal tasks were to find and eliminate survivors of Order 66'
|
Is this Lucus making Vader not so evil, becuse its his redeption story? If so it shows why the Star Wars verse is losing its punch. I willing to admit I'm wrong here so I'm asking if anyone can give me examples in the novels (or whatever expanded verse media you'd want) in which Vader has hunted down and killed Jedi, The Force Unleashed seems to imply, though I have not started the book, that he does not do so in that book.
Has Vader killed any other Jedi?
If it were true that the only Jedi Anakin actually killed were children, I don't think that would make him less evil. Weaker, maybe, but not less evil. If anything, it would make him more evil, since he's engaging in butchery and avoiding anything resembling honorable combat.
Is this Lucus making Vader not so evil, becuse its his redeption story? If so it shows why the Star Wars verse is losing its punch. I willing to admit I'm wrong here so I'm asking if anyone can give me examples in the novels (or whatever expanded verse media you'd want) in which Vader has hunted down and killed Jedi, The Force Unleashed seems to imply, though I have not started the book, that he does not do so in that book.
Has Vader killed any other Jedi?
If it were true that the only Jedi Anakin actually killed were children, I don't think that would make him less evil. Weaker, maybe, but not less evil. If anything, it would make him more evil, since he's engaging in butchery and avoiding anything resembling honorable combat.
First off thanks for the info Uzzy.
As to him being less evil yes your very much correct on that point, but you don't actually see him do it. Of course had I been making the movies I would have him go to the Dark Side in the seconed movie and open the third with that image, so that Star Wars III would be Ben's attempt to redeem Vader, but the people would know form the start that he's too far gone. Going from a Star Crossed Lover to a child killer in less then 10 miniutes somehow lesses the impact.
Essentially I'm saying that emotionally Vader comes off less evil in the films because one does not actually see him kill Jedi, even the children in only suggested. Having it happaned in the expanded universe, and the list is very short, seems like a fine solution, until one sees that in fact he didn't kill many.
Anyways thanks again for the info.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
This was my biggest pet Peeve about RotS. One of several, I'll admit.
"Oh no! I've just helped the Sith Lord kill Master Windu! Guess I'm evil now, time to go slaughter some children."
I'd think that based on his belief in himself and the feeling of destiny he has in the movies it would be more like this:
Anakin: Bullsith! *ignites light sabre* I'm going to beat your darkside butt down and haul you to the council myself. Then I'm going to beat out of you how to save Padme, and then I'll get the respect I deserve from the Jedi!
Then again I was of the mind in the movie that I'd have gone to the darkside so long ago.
Anakin: Master Windu, I've found that Sith you're looking for. It's the Chancellor.
Mace Windu: Thank you Jedi Skywalker. We adults will go deal with the big bad sith. We're worried he has an undo influence on you, even though you came of your own free will and told us who he is and want us to arrest him. So you stay here with the children, and when we get back you can have an ice cream sunday!
Darth Vader killed Kenny.
Bastard !
|
|
Then again I was of the mind in the movie that I'd have gone to the darkside so long ago.Anakin: Master Windu, I've found that Sith you're looking for. It's the Chancellor.
Mace Windu: Thank you Jedi Skywalker. We adults will go deal with the big bad sith. We're worried he has an undo influence on you, even though you came of your own free will and told us who he is and want us to arrest him. So you stay here with the children, and when we get back you can have an ice cream sunday!
I don't know. If they had offered him an ice cream sundae, he might have done what he was told ;p
This is not the ice cream sundae you seek.
Ohh so you want to start that up again.
"These are not the ice cream sundae's you are looking for .....move along"
When Obi goes to the videotape in III, you see Anakin killing Cin Draillig, the Jedi swordmaster. He is portrayed in that clip by Nic Gilliard, the weapons expert who worked with the actors throughout the films (the name Cin Draillig is Nic Gilliard's name spelled backwards).
Tangential to your question about Jedi deaths:
One thing that annoyed me about the prequels was that the Jedi were portrayed as rather wimpy. I appreciate the idea that evil is, in a sense, the path to ultimate power, because you are not confined by moral considerations. But:
Ep I-Darth Maul handles two Jedi
Ep II-Obi is unable to take down a non-Jedi, Dooku beats two Jedi single-handedly
Ep III-Dooku takes out Obi before Anakin gets him.
The scene that was the silliest, to me: When Sam tries to arrest Palp, Palp slaughters his posse in a heartbeat. One doesn't even fight, and another is killed moments later. Later in the flick, Yoda walks in and Palpatine b-slaps him into next week.
|
Let's not forget that the assault on the Jedi Temple and Order 66 is one thing. The hunt for the remaining Jedi after Episode III, during the Dark Times as featured in Force Unleashed, is another. There, Darth Vader is intrumental in hunting down the survivors.
Vader killed many Jedi. Not just the younglings in the Temple, and not just the Jedi of the Temple.
Good points all, I guess like many fans of my age, when Ben said "he helped hunt down" the Jedi I always wanted to see that. The movies failed in that regard.
Edit. Lets face it the movies had less emotial impact the way they delt with it. The children deaths are hinted at but now show, I all accept this as having a strong emotial impact.
The Jedi on the holo monitor is one step removed, thus we the audiance, are not doing the killing or dieing in that fight. The other Jedi are off screen (in terms of Vader at lest).
Ben can be seen as suicide as much as murder.
As for the Jedi killed by the clones all I can say for a group of Kinghts who's dedication is for Knowledge and Defense, they didn't know that one was coming and they didn't put up much defense against it.
As I said in the cartoon boad maybe Vader will kill Asuki (spelling?) in the up coming TV show. And let us see it, see her suffer and cut to pices without mercy. Let the people spit at Vader/Skywalker. But Instead I'm sure we well get another distant one step removed killing, either visa holo net or having someone else do it. Too bad really.
TTFN Dre
|
|
Good points all, I guess like many fans of my age, when Ben said "he helped hunt down" the Jedi I always wanted to see that. The movies failed in that regard.
To me that depends what you think he means when he says that Vader helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi. Considering his role in the Empire, I always took it to mean that he led the effort to wipe them out, much like he helped capture Princess Leia. Because that was my veiw, it was very satisfying to me to watch him lead the clone army into the Jedi Temple to wipe out the order. To me it doesn't make sense that the Emperor would send one man out to finish off the hundreds of Jedi that survived Order 66.
Maybe some of the sandpeople he wiped out in Episode II had jedi class levels?
To me that depends what you think he means when he says that Vader helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi. Considering his role in the Empire, I always took it to mean that he led the effort to wipe them out, much like he helped capture Princess Leia. Because that was my veiw, it was very satisfying to me to watch him lead the clone army into the Jedi Temple to wipe out the order. To me it doesn't make sense that the Emperor would send one man out to finish off the hundreds of Jedi that survived Order 66.Good points all, I guess like many fans of my age, when Ben said "he helped hunt down" the Jedi I always wanted to see that. The movies failed in that regard.
True, but I would have liked to have seen some clashes, if nothing else this would give new viewers of the series, who I'm going to assume will start with Ep. I, a lot more suspense and fear when Luke first clashes with Vader in Empire, ie we've seen what he does to fully tried Jedi. The movies failed in this, partly I'll admit because thats not the story George wanted to tell, (though to be honest I've become more and more convised what made Star Wars work so well had more to do with Cambel then George), but I wold have assumed the books would fill this role.
Your right however, I don't expect to see him kill every Jedi, but I do want to see him kill Asuki (spelling?) form Clone Wars.