Did they have supplements for level 21+ (or beyond whatever level the PHB stopped at)? If so, were they any better executed than 2e's High Level Handbook and 3e's Epic Level Handbook?
TS
Did they have supplements for level 21+ (or beyond whatever level the PHB stopped at)? If so, were they any better executed than 2e's High Level Handbook and 3e's Epic Level Handbook?
TS
OD&D/BD&D: yes, but the characters became insanely powerful after a while, to the point where thjey were challenging gods just so that DMs could have a credible threat. BD&D supported play until (IIRC) 36th level at which point the players were expected to retire their characters (they became gods or legends or are on the Isle of Avalon waiting for the world's darkest hour or are pinin' for the fjords or such like).
AD&D: not so much -- although theoretically possible, what I've seen seems to indicate that AD&D1e was pretty much engineered with the assumption that characters would cap out at 20th level, mostly because it would take so bloody long for them to get there.
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Did they have supplements for level 21+ (or beyond whatever level the PHB stopped at)? If so, were they any better executed than 2e's High Level Handbook and 3e's Epic Level Handbook?
TS
You could get there eventually, but looking at the AD&D1 Deities and Demigods supplement, the game wasn't really designed around high-level play. I mean, when (IIRC) Isis, the Egyptian goddess of magic, is a Wiz25 [1][2], that's a pretty good indication that the game designers had some limits in mind.
[1] Yes, yes, I know they were called Magic-Users back then.
[2] Yes, yes, I know she could do other things.
Thanks guys, you've been very helpful.
TS
Did they have supplements for level 21+ (or beyond whatever level the PHB stopped at)? If so, were they any better executed than 2e's High Level Handbook and 3e's Epic Level Handbook?
TS
Hiya.
Basic D&D (the "Basic/Expert/Companion/Masters/Immortals" boxes..."BECMI") had rules for characters and campaigns levels 1 through 36, plus immortals. Each "set" focused on some aspect of a campaign;
Basic (1 - 3): Wet-behind-the-ears adventurers, killin' goblins and kobolds.
Expert (4 - 14): The world opens up; wilderness travel and adventure.
Companion (15 - 25): You carve off a part of the world as yours; domains, castle construction and mass warfare.
Master (26 - 36): Other planes; world-wide threats that nobody knows about; getting on the good, and bad, side of various immortals.
Immortal (Immortal: no levels as such): Creating your own plane of existence, acquiring worshipers, thwarting other immortal-type creatures who seek to screw with your plans, etc.
As far as I'm concerned, the BECMI rules system is the best "D&D" version for those who want a HUGE range of possibilities for their campaigns. For campaigns that last decades (of real time, not game time), this system is probably the best there ever was...and probably still is the best. High level play is when you hit the 15+ levels...and contrary to what some think, the really high level characters do not 'challenge the gods' on a regular basis. There are a lot of VERY powerful creatures to more than keep a campaign with characters in the high 20's and 30's of levels entertained and challenged.
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Did they have supplements for level 21+ (or beyond whatever level the PHB stopped at)? If so, were they any better executed than 2e's High Level Handbook and 3e's Epic Level Handbook?
TS
Hiya.
Basic D&D (the "Basic/Expert/Companion/Masters/Immortals" boxes..."BECMI") had rules for characters and campaigns levels 1 through 36, plus immortals. Each "set" focused on some aspect of a campaign;
Basic (1 - 3): Wet-behind-the-ears adventurers, killin' goblins and kobolds.
Expert (4 - 14): The world opens up; wilderness travel and adventure.
Companion (15 - 25): You carve off a part of the world as yours; domains, castle construction and mass warfare.
Master (26 - 36): Other planes; world-wide threats that nobody knows about; getting on the good, and bad, side of various immortals.
Immortal (Immortal: no levels as such): Creating your own plane of existence, acquiring worshipers, thwarting other immortal-type creatures who seek to screw with your plans, etc.
As far as I'm concerned, the BECMI rules system is the best "D&D" version for those who want a HUGE range of possibilities for their campaigns. For campaigns that last decades (of real time, not game time), this system is probably the best there ever was...and probably still is the best. High level play is when you hit the 15+ levels...and contrary to what some think, the really high level characters do not 'challenge the gods' on a regular basis. There are a lot of VERY powerful creatures to more than keep a campaign with characters in the high 20's and 30's of levels entertained and challenged.
A Warning to all Immortal Hierarch: Having advanced through all the tiers of Immortality, you come to realize there is a boundary across which no Immortal may cross. Yet having divested yourself of all godly power and dispersed yourself into the planes, you may begin again a second time as a mortal - unknowing and unaware of your own past and seeking to rise to power again as an immortal from the mortal world, may once sucessful pass beyond to the place where the old ones dwell...
well; there is a mix of AD&D and just D&D info on this thread so you might want to distiguish; the AD&D phb had stuff up to level 40; if you talking about adventures; thing like Blackmore and Isle of the Ape and a few others were for really high level characters.
Valegrim's right; I would appreciate clarification. I didn't start playing until 2nd Edition AD&D; I know there was an Original D&D and a 1st Edition, but I'm reading terms other than those. (Unless they're typos like BD&D?)
TS
High level play is when you hit the 15+ levels...and contrary to what some think, the really high level characters do not 'challenge the gods' on a regular basis.
pming... I do have a name, y'know. :P Seriously, though, thanks for the correct. :)
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Valegrim's right; I would appreciate clarification. I didn't start playing until 2nd Edition AD&D; I know there was an Original D&D and a 1st Edition, but I'm reading terms other than those. (Unless they're typos like BD&D?)
TS
Original Dungeons and Dragons (OD&D)published in 1974, which included three booklets: Men & Magic, Monsters & Treasure, and The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures. There were also various rules supplements released for OD&D, including Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardy, and Gods, Demi-gods, & Heroes. If you used all of the supplements it was pretty close to 1E AD&D. Most of the tables in the first 3 books stop well short of 20th level. The supplements go higher but I don't remember how high - likely around 20th level.
Holmes Basic published in 1979 that was a close relative to OD&D not withstading the references to the then-yet-to-be-released AD&D. This went up to 3rd level.
Basic / Expert D&D (B/X) published in 1981. The basic set was edited by Tom Moldvay and the expert book was edited by Cook and Marsh. The covers were done by Erol Otus. The basic book went to 3rd level and the expert book went to 14th level.
BECMI the basic, expert, companion, masters and immortals boxed sets by Frank Mentzer which started in 1983 and somewhat redone in the Rules Compendium. Once again the basic set went up the 3rd level, the expert set to 14th, and the Companion set took it to 36th (I believe) with the Masters set covering the pursuit of godhood and the immortals set detailing whet you did when you got there (once again, I believe. I haven't read this set in years)
well; there is a mix of AD&D and just D&D info on this thread so you might want to distiguish; the AD&D phb had stuff up to level 40....I'd like a cite for that, if you're talking about First Edition AD&D. At least, I don't remember the experience charts in the PHB going anywhere near that high.
AD&D 1e Player's Handbook took characters up quite a few levels in the experience charts and then gave a flat xp requirement per level after that. Flat xp requirements kicked in after "name" level (9th level for all classes save Magic-Users and Thieves which got their name at 11th). Clerics and Magic-Users had charts for spell memorisation through to 29th level when they hit their peak. A couple of classes (Druid and Monk) had charts that had a maximum level.
Other than spell memorisation, extra levels above "name" didn't matter much. Each class got a set number of hp (+3 for Fighters, +2 for Clerics and Thieves, +1 for Magic-Users). Attack probability maxed out between 17 and 21st level as did saving throws.