And there's nothing to say that Paizo has to stick to Golarion. Another world for Pathfinder. New cultures. New geographies. New AP's.
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The OPs concerns are justified and I do bet Lisa et al have frequent meetings about that topic as her posts suggest. These are not dumb people. In fact I find them almost intelligent (for a bunch of non dwarves that is).
Fundamentally, when you get right down to it, the answer to this can be illustrated by looking at Forgotten Realms. Fans are rabid for everything remotely Realms. They buy novels, adventures, supplements and figures and everything else ad nauseam. (and I never through the Realms were that interesting myself). And they bought the stuff even when the quality was sub par.
As long as Paizo is creating quality work that the fans enjoy I can see them riding this donkey for decades.
As long as Paizo is creating quality work that the fans enjoy I can see them riding this donkey for decades.
While I agree that they could be good to go for decades, I think that they have a plan for refinement that involves various changes to the organization of the various lines as they go along. As I said before, if the Pathfinder AP becomes a place for one AP and several adventures, I think that would be way cool, not to mention sustainable for them. Sure I'd have to add Pathfinder Chronicles to my subscription to get the great setting stuff. That's fine. As it stands, I'm already buying them on a case by case basis depending upon whether or not I see a value in that particular Chronicles issue.
Regardless of what the long term plans are, their number one priority when they started had to have been to build Golarion into a brand with some momentum behind it. Since their best (in my opinion) magazine had been Dungeon, going with a Dungeonesque format made the most sense for their launch product. Now that Golarion is a marketable brand they can diversify the product line a bit.
So yeah, I agree that things will continue to go well for them as long as they keep the quality level up and keep following whatever secret plan that has brought them to this point in a single year.
I used to donate blood regularly. Then they changed the rules in the U.S. so being in Europe for any length of time (instead of more than 2 months) between 1980 an 1996 makes you inelligible. Stupid mad cow disease.
You must not have tried to give blood recently, b/c they changed that rule a while ago. I give about every 2 months. And I remember when I couldn't b/c of that stupid rule :)
But obviously you've got other issues, w/ your deployments. Just an FYI.
So yeah, I agree that things will continue to go well for them as long as they keep the quality level up and keep following whatever secret plan that has brought them to this point in a single year.
It really is hard to believe that it has only been a year. They've gone from "the company that handles the magazines because wizards doesn't want to bother with that" to "the leader of the 4E resistance," from "a little no name of a company" to "the best name in the business," from "they'll do whatever wizards tells them to do" to "our last best hope for 3.5." Paizo really has come a long way in a single year.
Yes, I know that had a reputation of quality and so forth established by the mags, but until a friend of mine said, "get a subscription to dungeon is you're serious about being a freelance writer" and then two weeks after I do sign up, the mags get pulled, I hadn't heard of Paizo nor had I known the name. And I still talk to people that give a confused look when I say ther name, but its growing. Alot.
It really is great to be on the ground floor of something that is going to be huge.
So yeah, I agree that things will continue to go well for them as long as they keep the quality level up and keep following whatever secret plan that has brought them to this point in a single year.It really is hard to believe that it has only been a year. They've gone from "the company that handles the magazines because wizards doesn't want to bother with that" to "the leader of the 4E resistance," from "a little no name of a company" to "the best name in the business," from "they'll do whatever wizards tells them to do" to "our last best hope for 3.5." Paizo really has come a long way in a single year.
Yes, I know that had a reputation of quality and so forth established by the mags, but until a friend of mine said, "get a subscription to dungeon is you're serious about being a freelance writer" and then two weeks after I do sign up, the mags get pulled, I hadn't heard of Paizo nor had I known the name. And I still talk to people that give a confused look when I say ther name, but its growing. Alot.
It really is great to be on the ground floor of something that is going to be huge.
AMEN!!!
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It really is hard to believe that it has only been a year. They've gone from "the company that handles the magazines because wizards doesn't want to bother with that" to "the leader of the 4E resistance," from "a little no name of a company" to "the best name in the business," from "they'll do whatever wizards tells them to do" to "our last best hope for 3.5." Paizo really has come a long way in a single year.
Once upon a time Wizards of the Coast was this little nothing of a company that sole claim to fame was that it owned the rights to the few properties that Bard Games had when they folded. They we're nobodies lurking in the shadows behind TSR.
Now they're the big fish in the pond.
There's a lesson (and a warning) in there somewhere.
I love the whole AP thing. While I may not be able to play through them all, its nice to have a large selection of campaigns to choose from.
There's more information on the Golarion campaign setting anyway included. Win-Win situation.
I'll keep picking em all up.
For a good time, the generally accepted truth in the industry was that adventures don't sell.
I heard the same and never bought into that crap. Dungeon seemed to be doing just fine along with the Goodman explosion.
When people get nostalgiac about D&D it is never the rules, it's almost always stories of their past trips through great modules like Tomb of Horrors, Castle Ravenloft, etc.
I heard the same and never bought into that crap. Dungeon seemed to be doing just fine along with the Goodman explosion.
When people get nostalgiac about D&D it is never the rules, it's almost always stories of their past trips through great modules like Tomb of Horrors, Castle Ravenloft, etc.
I remember in the 2000 to 2003 era when it was all about the rules and not the adventures. I would bring this very point up over at ENWorld and my point would be summarily dismissed. Nevertheless, it rings more true now than ever.
The only books that I think stand up as well or better than adventures over time are the monster books. Tome of Horrors 1 - 3 FTW.
The only books that I think stand up as well or better than adventures over time are the monster books. Tome of Horrors 1 - 3 FTW.
IMO, the reason why adventures don't sell well is because there are alot of CRAPPY adventures out there. Plenty of people believe they can write adventures who just can't. I tried my hand at adventure writing once. Now I write fluff.
People remember Castle Greyhawk, ToEE, Shackled City, RHoD, and so on. People rag on the ruleset depending on which one they like at the moment, but they will never rag on a great adventure that they had fun in.
I used to donate blood regularly. Then they changed the rules in the U.S. so being in Europe for any length of time (instead of more than 2 months) between 1980 an 1996 makes you inelligible. Stupid mad cow disease.You must not have tried to give blood recently, b/c they changed that rule a while ago. I give about every 2 months. And I remember when I couldn't b/c of that stupid rule :)
I've been outside the U.S. for the past several years, so I've only given blood a few times for the local nation's blood services during that time. I'm glad they changed the rule back.
Of course, it's amusing to have the screeners pull out their hardcopy country listings to determine if I can donate when I list where I've been in the past 2 years.
Chief Technical Officer
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It really is hard to believe that it has only been a year. They've gone from "the company that handles the magazines because wizards doesn't want to bother with that" to "the leader of the 4E resistance," from "a little no name of a company" to "the best name in the business," from "they'll do whatever wizards tells them to do" to "our last best hope for 3.5." Paizo really has come a long way in a single year.Once upon a time Wizards of the Coast was this little nothing of a company that sole claim to fame was that it owned the rights to the few properties that Bard Games had when they folded. They we're nobodies lurking in the shadows behind TSR.
Now they're the big fish in the pond.
There's a lesson (and a warning) in there somewhere.
Yeah, but back then, Lisa Stevens was only Vice-President of Wizards of the Coast. :-)
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I've heard described often that a large portion of Dungeon readers simply read the modules as entertainment, and no doubt that remains true for Pathfinder. Plus they can be picked from for other games, or just collected for the "Oh gosh this is too awesome not to play!" AP that comes along.Myself I have perhaps 50 issues of Dungeon. I've run precisely two of the *adventures*.
I have a steady collection of Dungeon from issue 2. There are small gaps here and there, but overall I have most of them.
As with Pathfinder, they were mostly good solid readng material and something to mine for a home brew, with the occassional running of an adventure.
Now that Pathfinder has a side adventure, its even better.
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Yeah, but back then, Lisa Stevens was only Vice-President of Wizards of the Coast. :-)I keep forgetting how very incestuous the two companies are.
I can't decide if the whole thing is Shakespearean Drama or Greek Tragedy.
But it's definitely one or the other.
All the action happens off-stage, wwe just see the end result; so definitely Greek Tragedy.
I'm hoping to play every AP, but they are also a pleasure to read. I doubt i'll DM every Module, but i'll keep buying for the pleasure of reading.
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I guess my long-winded question is simply this: how long can you keep it up? How many Pathfinder Chronicles and APs and card decks and Adventure Modules can you write before the market is saturated? I fear that it is not sustainable to stick with the ultra-aggressive release schedule you've had thus far.
I don't know. That doesn't seem to be that obvious to me that this couldn't be sustained. Many are reading the material and keeping it as sources of inspirations or future campaigns at their game tables. Others read them as fiction. Et cetera.
It all depends on the customers obviously. We'll see in the long run, but so far, it seems that it's working pretty well for Paizo (and as I write it, I can't help but feel like this is an understatement).
I guess my question would be: why are you asking this? Are you worried for Paizo, or are you concerned for your own finances? What prompted the question in the first place, if you don't mind me asking?
With the Second Darkness, we see the main adventure in the book still taking up half the book, but the setting material seems to have been slightly reduced in favor of a second adventure.
I might be wrong, but I don't think this is correct. I thought I heard that the AP part was being reduced (basically removing a "filler" encounter) and that this space was being used for an extra little adventure that could be, but didn't need to be, include in the AP. Things like the meat store and the farm-scarecrow part are the types of things that would have been moved in this way had they done this in the previous paths.
I might be wrong, but I don't think this is correct. I thought I heard that the AP part was being reduced (basically removing a "filler" encounter) and that this space was being used for an extra little adventure that could be, but didn't need to be, include in the AP. Things like the meat store and the farm-scarecrow part are the types of things that would have been moved in this way had they done this in the previous paths.
Well, let's look at the page counts of various things in issues 12 and 13.
Shadow in the Sky - pages 6 - 47, or 42 pages.
Set Piece Adventure - 64 - 71, or 8 pages
Crown of Fangs - pages 6 - 61, or 56 pages.
I stand corrected.
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I might be wrong, but I don't think this is correct. I thought I heard that the AP part was being reduced (basically removing a "filler" encounter) and that this space was being used for an extra little adventure that could be, but didn't need to be, include in the AP. Things like the meat store and the farm-scarecrow part are the types of things that would have been moved in this way had they done this in the previous paths.Well, let's look at the page counts of various things in issues 12 and 13.
Shadow in the Sky - pages 6 - 47, or 42 pages.
Set Piece Adventure - 64 - 71, or 8 pagesCrown of Fangs - pages 6 - 61, or 56 pages.
I stand corrected.
Wouldn't it be better to look at the opening issues of each cycle?
Edge of Anarchy - 52 pages
Burnt Offerings - 50 pages
Shadow in the Sky + St. Caspieran's Salvation - 50 pages
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Agreed! Most months, superscribers will end up with around $40 in new products, a bit more if you throw Planet Stories on there. I figure that $50 a month is pretty much the max for most folks, and for a large contingent of people, that number is much lower. Which is probably why most of our subscribers are just Pathfinder AP subscribers. They can afford the $20 or so with shipping each month. Then they pick up other products on an ad hoc basis, which we are fine with!-Lisa
This helped persuade me to become a superscriber (well, that and I love the product). Will take me considerable to time to collect the backlog, however...
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To the OP - for me, a good adventure path or module is like a good book. Even if I never play it, it was still worth reading. Moreover, the cost of an adventure path or module is much easier on the wallet than the hordes of supplements WotC put out. Fact is, I found myself less and less interested with all the source books WotC kept putting out. Too many rules, feats, spells, classes, and prestige classes to keep up with. So, as long as I have money to spend and interest in fantasy, and Paizo keeps up its end of the bargain with good quality products, the company will keep me as a customer.