Well I haven't actually seen my cleric bust out his Bolt of Glory in some time. His favorite offensive spells seem to be Moonbolt (Maximized for 10 str damage EVEN with a save), Earthreaver (knocks you prone), Earthquake (totalled the Minting House and Demogorgons shrine at the Wreck), Harm, Iceflowers, and now he's got Miracle! Defensively he's been doling out Spell Resistance, Mass which is a pain in the rear!
Our Sorceress has mucho destructive urges as well tossing Disintegrate like it's going out of style. She's murderized every Retriever I've thrown at her. She also loves Cacophonic Burst, Soundlance, & Field of Icy Razors or when pressed Limited Wish. However as she's always under Greater Invis, ext. False life, resistance superior, see invisible and elemental body plus any mass energy resist or spell resist the cleric drops on her she's ripe for a Reciprocal Gyre... Hell that's 5d12 right there for ms. tomb tainted soul!
See Invisibility or True Seeing plus Reciprocal Gyre plus Chain Dispel = massive piles of pain. ^_^
I too turin would like a copy of your Vanthus and captain Wyther if you'd please. My email is jbraba20@student.scad.edu
E-Mail sent with word documents attached. Be sure to exercise his (presumably posthumous) bragging rights when the bodies stop twitching and the heads have rolled. ^_^
Very scary indeed the only thing I'll change is the that unholy grace my party would never be able to hit that AC. The details of the fight will have the Vanthus fight will have to wait til the holiday season when I'm back from school. One question though I didn't understand your Wyther maybe it didn't transfer right? Thanks again Turin.
Not hitting him is the whole idea Sir Scare. ^_^ Granted, as the GM you can adjust as you see fit ... Keep in mind, several of them probably have access to Moment of Prescience and True Strike, so do not discount your players' ingenuity. Not accounting for more creative tactics on the part of your PCs I can think of but sha'n't repeat.
Cold Cap'n Wythers I will re-examine. I finally finished Chapter 1 regarding Dardaptoerebus, to be posted momentarily.
EDIT: It seems I did not transfer the full write up from my lap top to the desk top. Let me see if I happened to have attached the full write up to others' e-mails...
EDIT #2: It is either on the laptop, or it consisted of notes I made to differentiate from the base write up in the magazine. My apologies Sir Scare.
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Gah!!! Turin I was looking over Vanthus again all weekend... Unfortunately the Flesh Ring of Scorn's been changed in the MIC form it's original BOVD version. Because I already ruled the MIC versions of Magic items are the most current for my Players I have to abide by the changes as well... and I'm not taking 2d6 points of damage just auto confirm a crit 3/d. It's far easier to have oils of corrupt weapon handy.
The Black Rock and Rhapsody of Pain however are an awesome addition to his gear! I am pretty certain the half-orc barbarian in the group would take the Rhapsody if he gets the chance. Even before he picked up the Tooth of Ahazu he had darker leanings (contimplating taking eye of gruumsh levels, wated to make a golem of all the cadavers he had scavenged... you don't even want to smell his bag of holding).
Unholy Toughness and Unholy Grace bolster his poor hit points and saves, as does replacing Skill focus bluff with Force of Personality. It also allows me to swap his Ring of Prot +3 for a Vest of Resistance +4...
Oh and did you notice in about half the monster statblocks with the Unholy Aura SLA they double dipped in the AC on Deflection bonuses? Both Vanthus and Saint Kargoth have Rings of Protection and their Unholy Aura's deflection bonuses factored into their AC! There's a no-no...
Unholy Aura really should provide a Profane Bonus to AC.
Gah!!! Turin I was looking over Vanthus again all weekend... Unfortunately the Flesh Ring of Scorn's been changed in the MIC form it's original BOVD version. Because I already ruled the MIC versions of Magic items are the most current for my Players I have to abide by the changes as well... and I'm not taking 2d6 points of damage just auto confirm a crit 3/d. It's far easier to have oils of corrupt weapon handy.
The Black Rock and Rhapsody of Pain however are an awesome addition to his gear! I am pretty certain the half-orc barbarian in the group would take the Rhapsody if he gets the chance. Even before he picked up the Tooth of Ahazu he had darker leanings (contimplating taking eye of gruumsh levels, wated to make a golem of all the cadavers he had scavenged... you don't even want to smell his bag of holding).
Unholy Toughness and Unholy Grace bolster his poor hit points and saves, as does replacing Skill focus bluff with Force of Personality. It also allows me to swap his Ring of Prot +3 for a Vest of Resistance +4...
Oh and did you notice in about half the monster statblocks with the Unholy Aura SLA they double dipped in the AC on Deflection bonuses? Both Vanthus and Saint Kargoth have Rings of Protection and their Unholy Aura's deflection bonuses factored into their AC! There's a no-no...
Unholy Aura really should provide a Profane Bonus to AC.
If you have access to it, you may consider turning Vanthus into a Warblade from the Tome of Battle. Nothing surprises your party more than a Manticore Parry (deflecting the attack back against the attacker). I know I was.
Gah!!! Turin I was looking over Vanthus again all weekend... Unfortunately the Flesh Ring of Scorn's been changed in the MIC form it's original BOVD version. Because I already ruled the MIC versions of Magic items are the most current for my Players I have to abide by the changes as well... and I'm not taking 2d6 points of damage just auto confirm a crit 3/d. It's far easier to have oils of corrupt weapon handy.
The Black Rock and Rhapsody of Pain however are an awesome addition to his gear! I am pretty certain the half-orc barbarian in the group would take the Rhapsody if he gets the chance. Even before he picked up the Tooth of Ahazu he had darker leanings (contimplating taking eye of gruumsh levels, wated to make a golem of all the cadavers he had scavenged... you don't even want to smell his bag of holding).
Unholy Toughness and Unholy Grace bolster his poor hit points and saves, as does replacing Skill focus bluff with Force of Personality. It also allows me to swap his Ring of Prot +3 for a Vest of Resistance +4...
Oh and did you notice in about half the monster statblocks with the Unholy Aura SLA they double dipped in the AC on Deflection bonuses? Both Vanthus and Saint Kargoth have Rings of Protection and their Unholy Aura's deflection bonuses factored into their AC! There's a no-no...
Unholy Aura really should provide a Profane Bonus to AC.
I'd not even caught that - I figured that "ring of scorn" thing was a 'use-activated' corrupt weapon effect when I wrote him up. I used the names from BoVD and then very loosely followed the 'original' write up. I factored in that The Big D can craft artifacts, and having just about made Vanthus his #3 former mortal minion he bestowed a few presents upon his despicable personage. They did not remain as loot for my PCs, dissolving upon Vanthus' permanent death.
I didn't mind that Death Knights do not get Unholy Toughness - the whole intent was to make them have to kill him twice over after all. Unholy Grace I do not recall even being in my write-up, let alone in the official one. I relied on the Unholy Aura to provide the resistance bonus on his saves. I do agree that aligned effects should provide bonuses of the same type. And that they should have deleterious effects on "incompatible" recipients...
I do believe "my" Vanthus is generally able to handle most parties when buddied up with Lazravakus, the half-dozen augmented Shadows of Socobentoth and the half-dozen seriously advanced dread wraiths. He is air-mobile by at least two means (although I never bothered squandering his summoned nightmare, given those players' predilections for memorizing far too much statistical materials ... and using them in play despite not having any 'in character' knowledge that goes along with it). It takes two deaths to make him stay dead. And he lays a [b]serious[/i] two-weapon melee smack down on anything that gets in his way.
Nope ToB doesn't exist in my reality...
Aye. Having seen the ToB in the early part of the Savage Tide - and based upon 'live testing' it at the table - I can wholly concur. I like a lot of the stuff in there. The problem is that they clearly did not playtest it thoroughly, as two of the styles are pretty @#!! broken pretty much from the get-go.
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Yeah Vanthus as written is a chump... The only thing that keeps him alive is his AC which is bogus due to the double deflection dip I noted. My Goliath thankfully has been having trouble with BBEG's lately due to high AC and too much power attack. Even so my other Rager, the half-orc doesn't use power attack as much AND he's got the Greataxe Sun Blade... I'm getting amped to see that fight on the bridge with the shadow demons, though I have been overlooking the Magma Drake!
The Mobility issue isn't really an issue with my group. They all have ample potions of Fly, can fly naturally, or take the form of an air elemental. In fact flying for me has been hazardous due to the fact the Thrice damned demonwrecker packs Downdraft as a matter of course! But the lava is 1000ft below so it's not totally a bust.
I'm still trying to find the Feat or Class ability to switch your Dodge bonus as an immediate action (if it exists) because Elusive Target is just awesome and would be twice the fun if I can use cause overreach and negate power attack on 2 PC's!!!
Found it... Combat Defense from PHB2
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Dang there it is again... the inconsistancy of the forbiddance effect. Orgosh has a contingent Teleport active on him. I think I'm gonn be like you Turin and have Orgosh and Kulublax and his Kastighur warden's keyed to the forbiddance so they can utilize their abilities while the PC's cannot (ha-ha boots of dimension striding)!
Dang there it is again... the inconsistancy of the forbiddance effect. Orgosh has a contingent Teleport active on him. I think I'm gonn be like you Turin and have Orgosh and Kulublax and his Kastighur warden's keyed to the forbiddance so they can utilize their abilities while the PC's cannot (ha-ha boots of dimension striding)!
Excellent work in tracking down the goodie permitting swapping one's designated Dodge-ee as an immediate action.
And yes, 'keying' the baddies to the Forbiddance effect is pretty much required. Naturally, that won't stop a clever PC from zapping them with a Dimensional Anchor ... but, if one of 3 spell effects is in operation on a particular target ... oops. ^_^
Yeah Vanthus as written is a chump... The only thing that keeps him alive is his AC which is bogus due to the double deflection dip I noted. My Goliath thankfully has been having trouble with BBEG's lately due to high AC and too much power attack. Even so my other Rager, the half-orc doesn't use power attack as much AND he's got the Greataxe Sun Blade... I'm getting amped to see that fight on the bridge with the shadow demons, though I have been overlooking the Magma Drake!
The Mobility issue isn't really an issue with my group. They all have ample potions of Fly, can fly naturally, or take the form of an air elemental. In fact flying for me has been hazardous due to the fact the Thrice damned demonwrecker packs Downdraft as a matter of course! But the lava is 1000ft below so it's not totally a bust.
I'm still trying to find the Feat or Class ability to switch your Dodge bonus as an immediate action (if it exists) because Elusive Target is just awesome and would be twice the fun if I can use cause overreach and negate power attack on 2 PC's!!!
Found it... Combat Defense from PHB2
Greataxe Sun Blade ... >.< ... ow ow ow ...
Greater Spell Immunity, thy name is Mandatory. And CL 20 is not difficult to arrage for the baddies, nawp nawp.
Don't forget the Dread Wraiths! Between them and the Shadow Demons, plus Lazravakus and ol' Vanthus himself, your characters' world should be well and thoroughly rocked. Preferably with a TPK, but hey, an almost-TPK is good too. ^_^ Wish I'd gotten one... damned Lifestones...
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The only problem I have with doling out defensive spells like Spell Immunity or Ray Deflection, etc is who cast the spell on the Baddie? there are no Clerics to speak of on Divided's Ire, though it's easy enough to place some as prisoners. Also many of the effects are too powerful to be cast from Items and the Villains of the Ire aren't potent spellcasters except Orgosh and perhaps Saureya.
The only problem I have with doling out defensive spells like Spell Immunity or Ray Deflection, etc is who cast the spell on the Baddie? there are no Clerics to speak of on Divided's Ire, though it's easy enough to place some as prisoners. Also many of the effects are too powerful to be cast from Items and the Villains of the Ire aren't potent spellcasters except Orgosh and perhaps Saureya.
There's always Use Magic Device for scrolls. It's not too difficult to give Vanthus full UMD ranks and a plethora of buffing scrolls. How do you plan to get around the debuffing spells?
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The only problem I have with doling out defensive spells like Spell Immunity or Ray Deflection, etc is who cast the spell on the Baddie? there are no Clerics to speak of on Divided's Ire, though it's easy enough to place some as prisoners. Also many of the effects are too powerful to be cast from Items and the Villains of the Ire aren't potent spellcasters except Orgosh and perhaps Saureya.There's always Use Magic Device for scrolls. It's not too difficult to give Vanthus full UMD ranks and a plethora of buffing scrolls. How do you plan to get around the debuffing spells?
Overall Debuffing is not a tactic my Group uses often. The occasional Maximized Moonbolt to reduce STR and the Pierce Magical Protection Feat are about as much as I've seen them use in several campaigns. the only time I see a Targetted Dispel is when I use it on them.
My group's strategy is the best Defense is a good Offense. It's simple and effective. The heavy hitters bypass the mooks and go straight for the biggest baddest thing on the field. Note I have 6 or 7 PC's most nights and even adding more moderately powerful mooks they still take out the head first and that makes or breaks most encounters.
My strategies of late have pretty much required trickery like Project Image and other Illusions to draw fire and expend spells on, but they're starting to catch on. The Goliath's seeking an Illusionbane enhancement now and 3 PC's have Scout's Headbands (Scout, Paly, Demonwrecker).
Nope ToB doesn't exist in my reality...Aye. Having seen the ToB in the early part of the Savage Tide - and based upon 'live testing' it at the table - I can wholly concur. I like a lot of the stuff in there. The problem is that they clearly did not playtest it thoroughly, as two of the styles are pretty @#!! broken pretty much from the get-go.
Out of curiosity (since I haven't seen them all in action), which two styles are broken?
Nope ToB doesn't exist in my reality...Aye. Having seen the ToB in the early part of the Savage Tide - and based upon 'live testing' it at the table - I can wholly concur. I like a lot of the stuff in there. The problem is that they clearly did not playtest it thoroughly, as two of the styles are pretty @#!! broken pretty much from the get-go.Out of curiosity (since I haven't seen them all in action), which two styles are broken?
I think he talking about Devoted Spirit and White Raven. There is a considerable difference between powerful and broken, however. While a powerful maneuver is exceptionally effective, a broken maneuver completely changes the way the game is played. There are only a few maneuvers in the book that meet this criteria. And mostly, the fixes are minimal. For example, White Raven Tactics (level 3, swift action, ally moves to your initiative -1 and thus may get an extra turn) should be a standard action.
The problem is that almost everything that is 'broken' is in those two styles.
Anything that permits the kind of 'get more actions in the same round' stuff that those two schools provide really doesn't have a place in 3e. I can see elements of it in 4e (with the multitude of knockback effects), but then 4e is better balanced within itself in that regard.
Bellona, I have not forgotten your request re: MIC (or, more accurately, my list of Items That Should Not Be).
The problem is that almost everything that is 'broken' is in those two styles.
Anything that permits the kind of 'get more actions in the same round' stuff that those two schools provide really doesn't have a place in 3e. I can see elements of it in 4e (with the multitude of knockback effects), but then 4e is better balanced within itself in that regard.
Bellona, I have not forgotten your request re: MIC (or, more accurately, my list of Items That Should Not Be).
Thanks, I'll look forward to that! :)
There's actually no rush from my side, as none of my players' characters are getting their hands on any big treasure hauls in the near future. Not many choose Craft feats, and the one group that might do so has just spent all their L 6 feats on other stuff. (And their NPC soon-to-be Hathran sorceress will flatly refuse to craft anything because it's taboo for her).
The Goliath is annoying in that he took the Mage slayer and Pierce Magical Protections feats, not to mention his ridiculous damage output (large Goliath Greathammer and Leap Attack with 34 Str raging).
This just reminded me of a recent game. Groth is a L 6 human barbarian, and uses a size Large Goliath Greathammer with the help of Monkey Grip and assorted other feats. The buffed-up high priest of Sutekh (okay, so he was only L 8) came up the stairs, ready to dish out divine punishment, and took a critical hit from Groth. Those greathammers do 3d6 damage and have a critical multiplier of 4, the barbarian was raging plus some other buffs, and when the dust/dice had settled the damage came to 97 HP. From a L 6 melee character.
(I ruled that the high priest's head had been pulverised against the stone beside him. No Speak with Dead opportunities there!)
Groth's player is new to 3.0/3.5. Would it be unfair of me to keep my mouth shut about Improved Critical and other effects that increase the critical range? ;)
I had a player new to 3e and I basically made his lizardfolk barbarian now it is the bane of my existence dealing out on average 100-200 damage a round at an EL of 14. Just don't tell him about leap attack combined with power attack. But hey I still dominate him half the time and dish that damage back to the party.
But my biggest pain in the rear is the party's warlock he's got a charisma of something like 34 coupled with his unseelie fey winterchills ability his saves for curses and the like are around 35-40 and coupled with retributive invisibility, flee the scene and voracious dispelling (mind you he can do these things at will) nothing lasts long against him. He also has the eldritch glaive evocation that gives him three touch attacks around dealing 9d6 a hit often vitriolic that continues to do damage. Not to mention he has a damage reduction of 19 coldiron and magic items up the wassu. I plan on having them stolen but he is always invisible and sleeps in tiny spider form making even the most trained assassins hard for them to find him. Not to mention he has invocations that to use his charisma for fort and will bringing those saves up to an ungodly number I don't even try to throw such spells at him. He also has a ring of spell battle (one of the most overpowered item in the IC for its price) that he uses to counter spells he doesn't want used against him. He also has some ring I forget what it is that negates the first attack against you. He also has tons of other rings he switchs in and out like negative energy protection. He's got those darn skins he wears (another over powered set of items). Another favorite of his is to use his hellcat guantlets or gloves of eldritch admixture to strenghten his spell damage even more. And finally he uses bracers of entangling that allow no save to be entangled.
Oh and forgot he has charm monster invocation that pretty much always grants him a new ally each fight.
Anti-Magic Ray & Anti-Magic Field will shut this character down. Not nice, but - too bad, so sad. ^^
Maze is a catch-all solution to pain-in-the-rear characters too. Barring their conveniently having Find the Path memorized/available, you pretty much shunt that character out of the fight on the spot. Only a Cleric could really rebuff that - and even then it becomes a no-go issue if you whack the entire group with a Disjunction just before peppering them liberally with Maze and other assortments of death, destruction and dismemberment.
The Goliath is annoying in that he took the Mage slayer and Pierce Magical Protections feats, not to mention his ridiculous damage output (large Goliath Greathammer and Leap Attack with 34 Str raging).This just reminded me of a recent game. Groth is a L 6 human barbarian, and uses a size Large Goliath Greathammer with the help of Monkey Grip and assorted other feats. The buffed-up high priest of Sutekh (okay, so he was only L 8) came up the stairs, ready to dish out divine punishment, and took a critical hit from Groth. Those greathammers do 3d6 damage and have a critical multiplier of 4, the barbarian was raging plus some other buffs, and when the dust/dice had settled the damage came to 97 HP. From a L 6 melee character.
(I ruled that the high priest's head had been pulverised against the stone beside him. No Speak with Dead opportunities there!)
Groth's player is new to 3.0/3.5. Would it be unfair of me to keep my mouth shut about Improved Critical and other effects that increase the critical range? ;)
^_^ Only if he does not have his own PHB to peruse. I applaud your ruling on the critical hit - any thing fragged in one shot likely involves the head and/or heart going *pouf* in gruesome and messy fashion.
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Turin, I really would like to have you on my side next time i run a high level campaign.
While I can usually kill pc's with prepped monsters/NPC's, it's finding the sweet spot of almost killing them all while letting them pull out the success by the skin of their teeth that's tough.
as far as Tome of Battle...War Leader's Charge, i'm looking at you...you just gotta go.
also, for anyone who's letting the MIC in their game, 'ware the Belt of Battle and Ring of Spell Battle...swift action=full round action is ridiculous, not to mention the +2 init, all at like 12k gp...? jeez.
and the ring of spellbattle is what allowed the warmage to kill off big D at the end...prevented the death spell that targetted her earlier in that round (or the one before).
-t
Turin, I really would like to have you on my side next time i run a high level campaign.
While I can usually kill pc's with prepped monsters/NPC's, it's finding the sweet spot of almost killing them all while letting them pull out the success by the skin of their teeth that's tough.
as far as Tome of Battle...War Leader's Charge, i'm looking at you...you just gotta go.
also, for anyone who's letting the MIC in their game, 'ware the Belt of Battle and Ring of Spell Battle...swift action=full round action is ridiculous, not to mention the +2 init, all at like 12k gp...? jeez.
and the ring of spellbattle is what allowed the warmage to kill off big D at the end...prevented the death spell that targetted her earlier in that round (or the one before).
-t
Surely you mean War Master's Charge, the 9th level White Raven maneuver that allows the entire party to charge as one and gives other bonuses and such? How is this more broken than Celerity + Time Stop? Or Arcane Reach and Otto's Irresistible Dance? Or Ray of Stupidity (instant death to animals)? Or Split-Ray Avasculate? Or Craft Contigency? Or Wish/Miracle?
No, War Master's Charge is not broken. The level 9 maneuvers are in-line with the power expected of a level 9 spell. In the end-game, an initiator is about 75-80% as powerful as a primary spellcaster. This is as vast improvement over the traditional melee classes (not counting a fully optimized Barbarian), which were next to useless.
Anyone looking for a powerboost from the items in the MIC should look elsewhere. In most cases, the MIC correct the broken items of earlier books. The Belt of Battle is useful, but you should have at least 3 or 4 so you don't use up the charges and have a normal belt the rest of the day.
As for the Ring of Spell-Battle - hey, if your player can dispel something with a regular dispel magic at level 20, the ring is just a means to an end.
The thing about the MIC is it becomes about the items and not the levels. I thought I left that behind in WOW. Next campaign definitely will be just core.
The items in the SRD are almost universally better than those in the MIC. And there is nothing as broken in the MIC either, nothing like the Candle of Invocation.
The thing about the MIC is it becomes about the items and not the levels. I thought I left that behind in WOW. Next campaign definitely will be just core.
I expect to trim the gear from the PF Beta recommended cash listing as a starting point.
Characters should, I agree, be the primary focus. Swag should never define a character, imo. Swag is a tool, one I have seen become FAR too important an element of player characters in D&D.
Turin, I really would like to have you on my side next time i run a high level campaign.
While I can usually kill pc's with prepped monsters/NPC's, it's finding the sweet spot of almost killing them all while letting them pull out the success by the skin of their teeth that's tough.
as far as Tome of Battle...War Leader's Charge, i'm looking at you...you just gotta go.
also, for anyone who's letting the MIC in their game, 'ware the Belt of Battle and Ring of Spell Battle...swift action=full round action is ridiculous, not to mention the +2 init, all at like 12k gp...? jeez.
and the ring of spellbattle is what allowed the warmage to kill off big D at the end...prevented the death spell that targetted her earlier in that round (or the one before).
-t
Surely you mean War Master's Charge, the 9th level White Raven maneuver that allows the entire party to charge as one and gives other bonuses and such? How is this more broken than Celerity + Time Stop? Or Arcane Reach and Otto's Irresistible Dance? Or Ray of Stupidity (instant death to animals)? Or Split-Ray Avasculate? Or Craft Contigency? Or Wish/Miracle?
No, War Master's Charge is not broken. The level 9 maneuvers are in-line with the power expected of a level 9 spell. In the end-game, an initiator is about 75-80% as powerful as a primary spellcaster. This is as vast improvement over the traditional melee classes (not counting a fully optimized Barbarian), which were next to useless.
Anyone looking for a powerboost from the items in the MIC should look elsewhere. In most cases, the MIC correct the broken items of earlier books. The Belt of Battle is useful, but you should have at least 3 or 4 so you don't use up the charges and have a normal belt the rest of the day.
As for the Ring of Spell-Battle - hey, if your player can dispel something with a regular dispel magic at level 20, the ring is just a means to an end.
Sir Mithrandir86,
I actually enjoyed the ToB's concept of enabling the non-spellchuckers to dole out major league punishment without quite coming to that level of damage output.
My complaint with the latter-end swift/immediate actions pre-PF Beta (such as in the ToB) is anything that is externalized. Beguiler's assorted interrupt spells, the items that can be used to pack two full rounds' of critter death into a single round, and anything similar - such as 'reset your initiative and go again in the same round' - is a concept that is fundamentally flawed. Using a swift action to set a 'buff' or 'boost' on one's character exclusively, not a problem. Using an immediate "interrupt" action - especially if one can burn move actions to gain additional swifts - externally is a bad concept outside of a card game.
Summoned monsters technically circumnvent this - but they are very easily defended against & generally 'cost' a full round to start bringing into the scene, not to mention being pretty easily dispellable.
Turin, could I get improved Vanthus, too? Both for ToD and the Death Knight version (even though my players are far from it, it will come in handy)?
Email: gorbash011@hotmail.com
Thanks
I didn't do much with the ToD Vanthus - gave him a bonus feat granting his MUCH higher CHA bonus to his Will saves, maximized his hp, standard upgrade stuff. If you like, take the statblock as written & stack on the MM 2 (non-errata) Monster of Legend template, not to mention the swap on his Will save ability score bonus source (CHA mod instead of WIS mod). That should suffice for ToD.
The "Big Guy" is en route...
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War Master's Charge.
That's the one.
Now, don't get me wrong, I LIKE when the PC's are powerful and can do interesting, badassthings.
Now, when the Dwarven Warblade uses this ability, he uses a full round action (i think...working off memory here) and charges, everyone around him ALSO gets to charge [out of their normal initiative order, withougt resetting anything there] and everyone gets mucho-added damage.
the warblade then goes with his swift action into full round action 12k belt, uses another fullround to full attack whatever didn't just die (alternatively just uses the standard action to recover his just-spent-Warmasters Charge).
and everything that can be hurt dies.
the REST of the party then goes, and does all their crazy things.
now, keep in mind, in this party i had a grappler capable of besting big-d, a warmage putting out something like 100-150 damage per creature, and a rogue/ardent pair that could teleport the whole party at will from anywhere to anywhere in at max 2 hops.
not to mention the ranger-pyrokineticst/conjurer pair that made every item concievable and fully abused the spell "energy transformation field."
the warblade was really the least of my worries, right up till he hit 17th lvl.
i don't know, meybe i'm just bitter and griping, but i really don't think i'll run a game as high-level as that ever again, specifically because 1-2 round fights that had absolutely NO chance of real threat to the PC's and STILL took an hour to resolv just aren't fun.
gah.
-t
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Wow a lot of discussion's been going on in here since I last posted.
MIC items... LOL My Demonwrecker has both the Ring of Spellbattle and a Battlebelt of Priestly Might!!! Of course I rule that any of the items that are worn that provide 3 charges must be worn 24 hours to "attune" themselves to you so you can't go swapping out belts of battle or healing belts... that's just cheesy and that fix is IN the MIC section explaining how that books items work.
On to my update... The players entered the Abyss via the good ship Sea Warrior along with a crew captained by Harliss Javell (a privateer who was hunting down Seventh Coil Slavers on the Prime) and her crew.
Upon meeting the Sapphire Griffon and the Mercane the members of SWORD unloaded all their loot from the Wreck and about half their underpowered equippment!!! Since it allowed almost anything up to 200K I allowed a lot of leeway. The Paladin got his Holy Avenger evil Outsider Bane, the Goliath got a Ring of 3 Wishes to improve his natural fortification to 75% and his weapon to an everbright +5 evil outsider illusion bane greathammer of impact (though not till we ended for the night). The half-orc bbn picked up the demonhair shirt from the accompaning Dragon article (which is damn near tailor made for his dirty character)!!! The Demonwrecker picked up a fleet warriors array and +4 blueshine mithril fullplate. The rest of the group got a lot of goodies too...
Anyway they decimate the Blood Fiends of Orcus (3 of em) but ignore the Palrethee Azael's plea's for help and sailed on. They braved the Maw's Teeth making through with relative ease and eventually arrived at Divided's Ire. They cloaked the Sea Warrior with a Private Sanctum spell and hid her in the smoke from the volcano. After attempts to teleport in or near the prison failed, they chose to fly in from the south aiming for the bridges. Using the Crystal Ball they claimed from the wreck they knew Umbra (the Aasimar Paladin's Alu-demon lady friend - see Dungeon #55) was being held somewhere with lava so they aimed for the Penance side of the prison. Unfortunately the Nabassus spotted their approach and rallied his kin to meet them in the air above the channel.
What I thought would be an easy encounter for them turned out to tax them greatly. Between the Greater Dispels cancelling the fly potions of the Barbarians and Cleric and the Energy Drains and Blasphemies they SWORD took nearly 10 rounds to finish the fiends. Yark the half Orc Bbn survived a DC 40 Fort Save against a Coup de Grace with 6 negative levels rolling exactly what he needed!!!
After seriously discussing returning to the Sea Warrior to rest they broke out emergency scrolls of restoration, healed up to nearly full hp's and pressed on. They landed atop the south west section of the prison and tried to break through the roof... the normally unstoppable goliaths adamantine hammer barely scratch the magically reinforced walls, before the Sorceress UMD'd the Serpent Symbol to disintegrate the ceiling... leading right in to the Astral Deva Saureya's domain. The Celestial and his Archon followers suprised the SWORD and the cunning Montebank tricked them into believing that Kulublax held their friend, claiming that the Warden's domain was where all the cages hanging from the ceiling were (lie mixed with truth -5 to sense motive). The SWORD agreed to take out the Warden and Saureya aid he would help them cleanse the prison of Demons when they returned! Of course he's going to sick them on Orgrosh if they return.
The ended the night crossing the Span (area 15) and opening the doors into Belshamoth's domain getting a nosefull of the putride sewer stench of the Demodand and Belarions turf. And that's where we left off...
Ah yes the Aasimar Paladin succumbed to the Sympathy effect of the Prison's ward and is determined to kill every last demon in the place before he leaves.
War Master's Charge.
That's the one.
Now, don't get me wrong, I LIKE when the PC's are powerful and can do interesting, badassthings.
Now, when the Dwarven Warblade uses this ability, he uses a full round action (i think...working off memory here) and charges, everyone around him ALSO gets to charge [out of their normal initiative order, withougt resetting anything there] and everyone gets mucho-added damage.
the warblade then goes with his swift action into full round action 12k belt, uses another fullround to full attack whatever didn't just die (alternatively just uses the standard action to recover his just-spent-Warmasters Charge).
and everything that can be hurt dies.
the REST of the party then goes, and does all their crazy things.
now, keep in mind, in this party i had a grappler capable of besting big-d, a warmage putting out something like 100-150 damage per creature, and a rogue/ardent pair that could teleport the whole party at will from anywhere to anywhere in at max 2 hops.
not to mention the ranger-pyrokineticst/conjurer pair that made every item concievable and fully abused the spell "energy transformation field."
the warblade was really the least of my worries, right up till he hit 17th lvl.
i don't know, meybe i'm just bitter and griping, but i really don't think i'll run a game as high-level as that ever again, specifically because 1-2 round fights that had absolutely NO chance of real threat to the PC's and STILL took an hour to resolv just aren't fun.
gah.
-t
I agree, it is fun to be badass, individually and as a group. It is not fun to GM the "2 round wonder" encounters, unless that is part of a GM's Evil Plan to soften up the characters. (Which is actually a Good Thing. If the characters perceive legitimately powerful threats upon which they unlimber their heaviest artillery - and then the Big Bad drops the hammer - oops ^_^ ...)
The biggest thing that I've seen crop up has been the "more actions in a single round" stuff that the MIC, ToB and other similar concepts/spells/abilities/items permit. When that is applied to the raw firepower of a 17th+ level party, that translates into mass vaporizations of anything in their way in a far shorter time frame than it used to be. This is IMO the single greatest mistake conceived for 3e.
Time Stop can somewhat do this - but not really, since the duration is randomly determined by either the GM or a Maximized effect of some stripe. Coupled with the other limitations of that spell, the only other recourse are Quickened Spells, which have inherent limitations of their own. Sure, one could in theory "prep" as many as 10 Delayed Blast Fireballs and pepper them about the area during a Time Stop. But, DBF allows saves and requires a roll to penetrate SR for each blast, has a damage cap and has to deal with a resistable energy type no matter what kind of energy one doles out. Last, Time Stop is really better for rapid deployment of various augmentative and defensive spells that going on the offensive. Not to mention, at 'epic' levels, it is a common choice for the Epic Feat that allows one to benefit from the spell should the spell be cast within range ... oops ...
I expect that spell is among those that will be subject to a revision by August of 2009. ^_^ Or sooner ...
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Well Vanthus managed to soften up the members of SWORD but a few Miracles swung the advantage back in the party's favor.
After busting into Saureya's chambers and being informed that the Glabrezu Kulublax's domain held the most Cells (a little white lie) the party set out wanting to push on without resting. They started crossing the span at area 15 and spotted the pinnacle of rock in the lava flow with Vanthus' redoubt. The Winged Aasimar Paladin Lucien flew across the gulf to scout it out and was set upon by the Shadow Demons bringing him dangerously close to death with the vile damage. The rest of the group races out to help out and it takes the better part of 7 rounds to defeat them as the party has little to no way to deal with Incorporeal foes except the sorcerer who had learned ghostform to exploit that exact tactical advantage.
The Demonwreck then uses a Miracle to completely refresh the Party before the enter area 26 and face the Dread wraiths! Now back in ToD the group had to defeat a Tanar'ri Ship of Chaos (as my STAP is a Planescape adaptation) and it's Helm (a vrock brain slaved to the ship) was protected by a Spirit Wall and a Dread Wraith. Needless to say at 12th level they weren't prepared to handle that foe. Now the face 8 of them!!! So the Demonwrecker uses his other prepared Miracle to cast Ghost Trap. In doing so he nullified the advantage of both the Wratihs and the Shadow demons ability to ignore the hefty AC's of the frontline Barbarians, Paladin, and Demonwrecker (32, 40, and 39 respectively).
Vanthus managed to Hit the Barbarian with Avascular Mass, stunning him (nat 1) and blocking the entrance of the room. Unfortunately that trapped him in as well when the demonwrecker hit him with Dimensional Anchor. So a Horrid Wilting on half the group followed by another Avasculate on the Barbarian then he dismissed the Mass of vasculature and tumbled out of the redoubt. Unfortunately Vanthus rolled a Nat 1 on a Hold Monster and he was bashed out of Undeath and his Death Pact resurrected him. His AC and Saves suffered from the loss of the Death Knight Template and he was quickly mopped up.
Well Vanthus managed to soften up the members of SWORD but a few Miracles swung the advantage back in the party's favor.
At least he put a good scare into them and cost the cleric 10k XP for his troubles. ^^
I ran close to the full version "as written" for my group - so that should tell you how bad a$$ they were - scary stuff.
Although being Undead I am surprised that the Hold Monster even worked... oops!
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Erm??? Slight correction... the Scout's Manyshot nastiness sent him from Undeath to Life, then he got hit by the Hold Monster. and was Coup de Graced by the Barbarian's Goliath Greathammer. Even without his damage from Power Attack (negated by Elusive Target) 15d6 + 129 is Nat 20 territory for the Fort Save of the Coup De Grace.
Same thing happened to Lillianth when the Divine Trickster Demon Dirged her and I rolled a Nat 1 for the Stun. I Auto saved with the Legendary Leaders class ability but the damage was too much for the save to mean anything anyway.