I've been complaining that 4e made alignment an obsolete concept, but I've changed my mind. With no existing alignment crunch in RAW, I can finally use alignment exactly the way it should be used without the inconvenience of changing any rules!
The Tequila Sunrise Book of Heroic Might: How alignment is meant to be. Comments and critiques are welcome.
TS
The one thing that leaped out at me right off the bat is that the guy has both an encounter power and a daily power called Holy Word, each with similar effects. He probably should make up his mind. :-p
I really like his fluff and DM advice on alignment, though. It's stuff that has really needed to be explained to every DM in every edition because so many get it wrong.
The one thing that leaped out at me right off the bat is that the guy has both an encounter power and a daily power called Holy Word, each with similar effects. He probably should make up his mind. :-p
Yeah, I wasn't too concerned with original names. Several times I considered simply adding "holy" or "celestial" to the name of each original power before making it aligned. There're also two 1st level Smite Evil powers; if you've got creativity to kill, give me some names and I'll use them.
I really like his fluff and DM advice on alignment, though. It's stuff that has really needed to be explained to every DM in every edition because so many get it wrong.
Yeah, I think if the game writers had included a "how to" for alignments in previous editions then a lot fewer current players would have an irrational hatred for them now. Oh well, 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' doesn't change anything.
TS
Also, 4e Vow of Poverty coming soon!
Also, 4e Vow of Poverty coming soon!
This scares me.
I like your alignment fluff but think you should throw in the two extremes as well just for completeness sake (well and I'd be interested in reading your opinions).
This scares me.
Also, 4e Vow of Poverty coming soon!
Dare I ask...why?
I like your alignment fluff but think you should throw in the two extremes as well just for completeness sake (well and I'd be interested in reading your opinions).
Well I've always found the law/chaos axis to be a little more trouble than it's worth. (I'm not understating that btw; I don't really mind using law/chaos but they're just a bit harder to grasp and define than good/evil.)
Also, 4e Chaotic Evil is just ridiculous. It's should really be called Stupid Evil because you have to either be a slavering lunatic or some kind of demon/devil/whatever to be it. So if I were to talk about CE in my BoHM I'd feel the inescapable urge to redefine it.
TS
This scares me.
Also, 4e Vow of Poverty coming soon!Dare I ask...why?
I like your alignment fluff but think you should throw in the two extremes as well just for completeness sake (well and I'd be interested in reading your opinions).Well I've always found the law/chaos axis to be a little more trouble than it's worth. (I'm not understating that btw; I don't really mind using law/chaos but they're just a bit harder to grasp and define than good/evil.)
Also, 4e Chaotic Evil is just ridiculous. It's should really be called Stupid Evil because you have to either be a slavering lunatic or some kind of demon/devil/whatever to be it. So if I were to talk about CE in my BoHM I'd feel the inescapable urge to redefine it.
TS
I thought you were all about redefining the rules to suit your tastes? I'm unsure why your hesitating here.
Personally I'm with you on the whole issue regarding law and chaos. I really need those concepts to use my home brews version of creation - which is heavily inspired by traditional Plane Scape material but otherwise I find it more problematic then anything. Drow encompass to many aspects typically associated with law for them to really seem Chaotic Evil. So I need pure law and absolute chaos for creation myths but that was a long time ago so I can probably get by without it as my home brew is really all about the battle between good and evil.
Hence I'll use the Alignments at the extremes, with a quick name change to Exalted and Diabolical, to represent more evil and increased good. The idea being that a Goblin is Evil but not nearly as Evil as a Pit Fiend.
I thought you were all about redefining the rules to suit your tastes? I'm unsure why your hesitating here.
*Grins shiftily* When it comes to my own games, yeah, I have very little hesitation about changing fluff and/or crunch to my tastes. But when it comes to these little projects that I put out for the general public, I really try to reign myself in because I know most gamers have much less tolerance for change than I do.
Personally I'm with you on the whole issue regarding law and chaos. I really need those concepts to use my home brews version of creation - which is heavily inspired by traditional Plane Scape material but otherwise I find it more problematic then anything. Drow encompass to many aspects typically associated with law for them to really seem Chaotic Evil. So I need pure law and absolute chaos for creation myths but that was a long time ago so I can probably get by without it as my home brew is really all about the battle between good and evil.
Okay, you've convinced me. :) I'll be adding a fluff section on the law/chaos axis, redefined to my own tastes. Law/chaos can be defined in a few ways that make them meaningful, it just takes a little more effort than defining good/evil.
TS
Well, if you're using the GSL (which I assume you are, since you have the D&D logo displayed so prominently on the first page of the pdf), you're not allowed to redefine any terms from the SRD. That would make putting in different definitions of law and good problematic.
Oh, and here's how good I am at recognizing screen names. I didn't realize that you were linking to your own product. I probably would have been less of a smartass if I'd realized I was talking to the author himself.
Anyway, about the duplicate Holy Words: Not only do the two powers have the same name, but they're mechanically similar. Having both in the same game as written might be a little redundant. I'm thinking the encounter power's name could be changed to something like "Word of Rebuke" and keep the forced movement thing. The daily power could keep the name "Holy Word" and do some kind of damage + status effect, with the status effect being less severe for Unaligned or Good targets. I'll have to eyeball appropriate damage for a 1st-level cleric daily to get any more detailed.
It also seems like you have a lot of daily powers that have neither the reliable keyword nor a Miss effect. This is a big omission since one of the principles of 4e design is supposed to be that you never blow a daily with no effect.
Seraphim (the Level 22 Utility cleric prayer) seems poorly worded. One could take the description to mean that you get to pick one Good, one Unaligned, and one Evil target for the angel. Also, there's no duration listed. Maybe you meant to add a Sustain Minor line?
Well, if you're using the GSL (which I assume you are, since you have the D&D logo displayed so prominently on the first page of the pdf), you're not allowed to redefine any terms from the SRD. That would make putting in different definitions of law and good problematic.
He did not charge me money to read it. I serously doubt that Wizards has any case without a cash transaction. Looks like fair use to me.
If he accepted the GSL, I'm pretty sure he's bound by its terms with respect to WotC's IP rather than general copyright law. Of course, WotC might not care too much, since it's a non-commercial fan project.
If he accepted the GSL, I'm pretty sure he's bound by its terms with respect to WotC's IP rather than general copyright law. Of course, WotC might not care too much, since it's a non-commercial fan project.
Well I don't think TS accepted the GSL for starters and beyond that the GSL itself explicitly states that it does not cover fan material.
WotC plans to, at some future date, pretty much outline what their policy is toward fan sites, but until they do that TS's work is covered under general U.S. copyright law**. Now I'm no expert in copyright law, especially U.S. copyright law, but I'm near certain that what TS has going here has got to be covered under fair use. He's not particularly quoting any lengthy chunks of their text and is simply putting up his own opinions of how alignments ought to work.
** Come to think of it there is no way anything WotC says can be more restrictive then US copyright law. They don't make the rules. The only thing their fan site policy can possibly do is either remind the fans what is and what is not legally allowed and/or explicitly give up some of their rights. Well they may also decide to outline what they'd like and not like. Do something they think threatens the DDI and possibly they'll start looking for an excuse to send you a C&D.
As Jeremy commands, so do I grant! Well, regarding my thoughts on Law and Chaos at least. Text added to the Book.
Well, if you're using the GSL (which I assume you are, since you have the D&D logo displayed so prominently on the first page of the pdf), you're not allowed to redefine any terms from the SRD. That would make putting in different definitions of law and good problematic.
Meh, when WotC's lawyers track me down with a multi-million dollar lawsuit I'll laugh in their faces and then do whatever all that legalistic BS requires me to do. Until then, I added copywright fine print to the front page like I did with all my other pdfs.
Oh, and here's how good I am at recognizing screen names. I didn't realize that you were linking to your own product. I probably would have been less of a smartass if I'd realized I was talking to the author himself.
Don't worry about it, we all make mistakes sometimes. Paying for car insurance shouldn't be one of them, so call Geico.
Anyway, about the duplicate Holy Words: Not only do the two powers have the same name, but they're mechanically similar. Having both in the same game as written might be a little redundant. I'm thinking the encounter power's name could be changed to something like "Word of Rebuke" and keep the forced movement thing. The daily power could keep the name "Holy Word" and do some kind of damage + status effect, with the status effect being less severe for Unaligned or Good targets. I'll have to eyeball appropriate damage for a 1st-level cleric daily to get any more detailed.
Yeah I changed the effects of the daily Holy Word and I renamed most of my powers so that they're obviously recognizable as Holy duplicates of core powers.
It also seems like you have a lot of daily powers that have neither the reliable keyword nor a Miss effect. This is a big omission since one of the principles of 4e design is supposed to be that you never blow a daily with no effect.
I didn't intentionally do that; I just took a power of each level and varied its effects based on alignment. I or anyone else could easily do the same with powers of the reliable type.
Seraphim (the Level 22 Utility cleric prayer) seems poorly worded. One could take the description to mean that you get to pick one Good, one Unaligned, and one Evil target for the angel. Also, there's no duration listed. Maybe you meant to add a Sustain Minor line?
Thanks, I'll look into it.
*Bump*
*Bump*
Hey TS. I've read your law-chaos axis material and I find it interesting enough.
I did not really ask for a law chaos axis however, or if I did it was because I garbled a post. I need the basic concepts of Law and Chaos only for mythology of a time before time, a time before there was really Good and Evil per se, just law and Chaos.
I don't use Law and Chaos in my homebrew particularly. I did not use it at all in 2nd and I used it but essentially ignored it in 3.5, PCs had such alignments because the mechanics demanded it and it quickly became clear that it'd be a LOT of work to remove. But nothing about Law or Chaos is particularly relevant to my home brew in the modern setting - just in ancient myths.
What I had actually been interested in was your views on extreme Good and extreme Evil, I mean I have my own opinions and I think what we actually have in the 4E books is not very useful to my campaign. The idea that Devils are just evil makes no sense to me - they harvest and corrupt souls, its one of their primary activities. I was just curious what your opinions on the topic were.
However I hope that your filling out the Law and Chaos Axis was something you did because you felt a desire to expand on the topic for personal reasons. Furthermore it may still be of interest to other posters here.
What I had actually been interested in was your views on extreme Good and extreme Evil, I mean I have my own opinions and I think what we actually have in the 4E books is not very useful to my campaign. The idea that Devils are just evil makes no sense to me - they harvest and corrupt souls, its one of their primary activities. I was just curious what your opinions on the topic were.
Hm, well I've never really given much thought to extreme Good and Evil. I suppose that truly Evil creatures would come in many types just like mundane Evil creatures. I'm no Christian, but I do think they have a definition of true Evil that's worth considering; that of despair. Despair as in, when you despair of ever becoming a better person, and so stop even trying to become a better person and embrace your wickedness wholly. Such a character might be said to be truly and wholly Evil because they have absolutely zero hope of ever leaving their wicked ways.
TS
Hm, well I've never really given much thought to extreme Good and Evil. I suppose that truly Evil creatures would come in many types just like mundane Evil creatures. I'm no Christian, but I do think they have a definition of true Evil that's worth considering; that of despair. Despair as in, when you despair of ever becoming a better person, and so stop even trying to become a better person and embrace your wickedness wholly. Such a character might be said to be truly and wholly Evil because they have absolutely zero hope of ever leaving their wicked ways.TS
Thats some good stuff you have their. In D&D terms it obviously does not have to include despair but certainly your moving in the direction of true evil when your evil for its own sake. Goblins are nasty little varmints but their not evil for its own sake. They're evil because its how they get by. A Devil enjoys committing evil. Such an act brings it hedonistic pleasure.
Its nice and all but.....yeah probably not going to use it. I like alignment the way it is now and I am probably going to be just getting rid of it or just bringing it down to Good, Unligned, Evil soon.
Looks like good work. The page backgorudns could be easier on the eyes though.