Okay, maybe I missed something. In Foxglove's manor the party finds a book referencing the sawmill. The adventure then jumps to the mill, but I don't see anything that discusses HOW the party finds the mill other that GM fiat.
Help?
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Okay, maybe I missed something. In Foxglove's manor the party finds a book referencing the sawmill. The adventure then jumps to the mill, but I don't see anything that discusses HOW the party finds the mill other that GM fiat.
Help?
Not quite.
In the mansion, the party finds a letter from Xanesha to Aldern which tells him to go to his house in Magnimar if he needs help and she'll get her agents to contact him there. They also find a key which doesn't fit any lock in the mansion, so it would be reasonable for them to expect it to be for his townhouse.
At the townhouse, they find that the key reveals a hidden stack of papers, some of which are accounts that show he's been making regular payments to the mill. That's what should then lead them to the mill.
The mill is named as "The Seven's Sawmill" so a bit of asking around Magnimar should be able to locate it. After all, a mill needs running water, which means it must be next to the river, so that narrows it down for a start.
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Okay, maybe I missed something. In Foxglove's manor the party finds a book referencing the sawmill. The adventure then jumps to the mill, but I don't see anything that discusses HOW the party finds the mill other that GM fiat.
Help?
I had the same problem.
The mill is on Kyver's Islet. I had the party make a DC 20 Gather Information check in the Shadow District to determine which mill was "known" (amongst those on the, er, shadier side of town) to be the Seven's.
Some additional guidance from the author would have been helpful here.
does anyone have a better idea than the continual finding of notes telling you where to go.
I just dont get why having killed Aldern at the manor why you would bother going to the house, to then look for obscure clues about payment related to his wifes trip and then to the sawmill.
Plus once you go to the sawmill why on earth does this 'really clever cult of serial killers' pull on their masks and attack a bunch of heavily armored adventurers.
does anyone have an idea for a connection that will allow the party to actually solve the serial killer problem not just blunder in to it?
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Magnimar is suffering a rash of serial killings that share the Sihedron rune as a calling card. When the PCs return to Sandpoint, assuming they have solved the crimes, there could be merchants who have fled Magnimar (friends of the murdered) who inform of more killers, likely a handful.
Aldern is their only lead, so they’d investigate his contacts with Magnimar.
I strongly suggest renaming the Brotherhood of the Seven. It’s a cruelly coincidental name. The players will assume deeper associations between Thassilon (the star, it has seven points!) and a bunch of patsy cultists.
In my opinion, it's one of the muddiest parts of RotRL. Getting a good sense of the dynamics between The Brothers, Ironbriar, Xanesha, Aldern, his grandfather and the cultists will take some work. There's fat that will need to be trimmed for the players to appreciate what's happening.
I too am not a big fan of "here's a note that directs you to the next stop on the Adventure Railroad."
I like Selk's idea of the murders coming to the attention of the heroes when they return to Sandpoint. Having merchants who have fled from Magnimar seems a bit too convenient though.
I also like the idea of changing some of the names to avoid too deep a linkage between the 7 Sins and the Brotherhood of the Seven and Seven's Sawmill. Given that the organization is called the Brotherhood of the Seven, why would they advertise such by naming their hideout the Seven's Sawmill.
I like the idea of prolonging the mystery and confrontation with the Skinsaw men in Magnimar. Having everyone attack at the sawmill seems a bit contrived.
CJ
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Given that the organization is called the Brotherhood of the Seven, why would they advertise such by naming their hideout the Seven's Sawmill.
From my understanding, The Brotherhood of Seven isn't secret. They're a gentlemen’s club, kind of like the Masonic Order. What is a secret is that the members worship Nogorber and like to stab stuff. In this role they are the Skinsaw Cult. The sawmill is legally owned by the Brotherhood, ostensibly as a mundane investment, but truthfully as means to dispose of bodies. I'm not sure why they'd allow such a direct connection between their legitimate face and their south side abattoir, but there you go.
Don't forget that this adventure ends with the PCs having killed some of the city's most influential men (and a leading Justice) and cracks open a conspiracy to murder the Lord Mayor. It's a huge scandal: families ruined, the legal system rocked, but it's kind of downplayed in the denoument.
Given that the organization is called the Brotherhood of the Seven, why would they advertise such by naming their hideout the Seven's Sawmill.From my understanding, The Brotherhood of Seven isn't secret. They're a gentlemen’s club, kind of like the Masonic Order. What is a secret is that the members worship Nogorber and like to stab stuff. In this role they are the Skinsaw Cult. The sawmill is legally owned by the Brotherhood, ostensibly as a mundane investment, but truthfully as means to dispose of bodies. I'm not sure why they'd allow such a direct connection between their legitimate face and their south side abattoir, but there you go.
Don't forget that this adventure ends with the PCs having killed some of the city's most influential men (and a leading Justice) and cracks open a conspiracy to murder the Lord Mayor. It's a huge scandal: families ruined, the legal system rocked, but it's kind of downplayed in the denoument.
Thanks for replying.
My last post got eaten, I will try again.
I am about to start RotRL for a group that is pretty efficient and we are having a game weekend so I expect to get about 30+ hours of gaming in so I need to prepare Skinsaw.
I think I saw you idea abou not calling them the Brothers of the Seven earlier so have foreshadowed a group of freemason style people in Magnimar called the brothers of the Summit (after the rich area). I hav also implied Ironbriar may be a member and referred to the "Star murders" as a serial killer issue in Magnimar. So scene set.
OK now the problem. After they kill Aldern he will have mentioned his flash townhouse a few times when they meet him first, so OK they may go there.When they associate the star killings to the sihedron rune this becomes more likely, and they may well find his cache but.... here are my three problems which I am asking for help with
a) I dislike the note in the cache method of leading to the sawmill. Does anyone have a better idea?
b) having got to the sawmill Why oh Why would a bunch of 'wise' serial murderers whose credo is not random killing but specific targets chosen by "Father Skinsaw" or Xaneesha attack a bunch of armed adventurers rather than fob them off??
c) the brothers of the seven are now all members of the skinsaw right? and they are rich guys right? Why are they all working in the mill? Or is it suggested that the cultists are mooks of skinsaw and the brothers of the sevenmembers are elsewhere.
I reckon this whole thing is a really cool idea- solve the serial killer cult. I just dont like the way it is set up and the ham-fisted way the party falls into it, gets attacked by goons, has a fight, then kind of solve it all by accident.
Help me..
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I too am not a big fan of "here's a note that directs you to the next stop on the Adventure Railroad."
I didn't really see it as a problem until this last week when one of my Runelords players joined my Age of Worms game. Moreto, an intelligent "true ghoul" approached the party with the intent of talking. The undead-hating cleric responded by throwing a greater turning at him.
Fighter: Hey, watch it! That guy wanted to talk! Give'em a sec before disintegrating them next time, kay?
Runelords guy: No worries, I'm sure he's got a note.
DM: /headdesk
Spoiler b-c
When Xanesha took over Ironbriar, she directed the Skinsaw efforts first into going after original Brothers (who are all obviously greedy folk) and by the time the PCs get involved, most of the Brothers of Illumination are gone, and just the lower-class Skinsaw folk are left.
I used the dropbox in Aldern's place, so I don't have much help for you there. The PCs liked it, because the townhouse gave them a place to squat, at least until it gets forclosed. I put a couple patroling guards outside the mill on the night shift to give the PCs somebody to listen in on, wrote them some incriminating dialogue, and the PCs took things a step further by knocking out a guard with Awaken Sin (thus proving that he's evil) and interrogating him.
My PCs are not particularly overpowered, and they were able to Swat Team the place almost effortlessly (only Ironbriar put up any resistance at all). I'd encourage you to put the cultists into their robes and hats from the start, and have them praying together. It would feel more plausible to me than "part time assassin, part time mill worker" and I don't think it would put your PCs in too great a danger. Leave Ironbriar upstairs, and don't bring him in until the PCs are clearly winning the downstairs fight.
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Don't forget that this adventure ends with the PCs having killed some of the city's most influential men (and a leading Justice) and cracks open a conspiracy to murder the Lord Mayor. It's a huge scandal: families ruined, the legal system rocked, but it's kind of downplayed in the denoument.
For me, the Lord Mayor took the obvious step of covering the whole thing up. The big reward to the PCs was not for saving his life, but hush money for not revealing that Ironbriar was behind the whole thing. The city watch was made to look good when it "came out" that the PCs are an elite special operations team working for the city. Also gave me a chance to recruit the PCs to go clean up Ironbriar's mess in deliberately underfunding Fort Rannick as suggested in other threads here.
A word of caution: don't overplay Rannick's weakness. I ended up with my PCs hiring 20 men at arms to reinforce the fort. The players noticed me start twitching, and politely agreed to boat over with a load of supplies, while making the soldiers walk. So, I get a few days with the PCs in the area before their army shows up. I am still going to have to rewrite large parts of the module's end to compensate though.
does anyone have an idea for a connection that will allow the party to actually solve the serial killer problem not just blunder in to it?
My players will soon travel to Magnimar and i have the same concerns. I think i will give Ironbriar more Time with the group (as a "nice" NPC) and give them the opportunity to infiltrate the brotherhood.
Fighter: Hey, watch it! That guy wanted to talk! Give'em a sec before disintegrating them next time, kay?
Runelords guy: No worries, I'm sure he's got a note.
DM: /headdesk
Rotfl...
The notes/diaries are for the lowest bidder— insurance for a GM who has no inspiration to tailor her MacGuffins to the party.
If you have distaste for them, look at it as an opportunity to customize the flow of your campaign.
I have a Paladin of Iomedae in my campaign, who has connections with the big cleric in Magnimar. I'm going to let them find Aldern, and then think they have finished the adventure for about a week. Then the cleric from Magnimar finds out about what happened in Sandpoint and sends for my PC, hoping he can provide insight into the murders in Magnimar.
I've used the note/diary once or twice out of desperation. I think they're fine as a last measure, but more than any other part of the AP this is a great opportunity for customization.
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I do not have any problem with the paperwork the party found in different places. And the fact that there are similar murders going on in Magnimar to the ones Aldern was committing was more than enough to get my group knee deep in things there.
One PC in my group was Aldern's love interest and she figured that the townhouse was rightfully her's after what she went through with him (I made it a bit ugly) and the group now runs their operations from there when they get to town (which is not often these days).
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I had Aldern drop hints throughout his interaction with the PCs starting in Burnt Offerings...He invited the PCs to his townhouse anytime they were in Magnimar.
Surprisingly, the PCs let His Lordship talk. He dropped hints about the Brotherhood and the Mistress, and the ritual before the Skinsaw Man took over. It helped that the PCs had figured out through the Haunts the whole history of this tragic family and one player was eating mold from the walls at the time...But the hook was knowing that Aldern was sort of set up and used as a tool for this Brotherhood. The note was just another piece of evidence, but the PCs were already set on a course to go to the big city.
I remember an early blurb about Skinsaw describing how the PCs themselves were accused of the Skinsaw murders and had to clear their names.
I guess that plot point didn't come to pass, but it can still be a viable way to connect the PCs to the murders if you don't want to have the note. Perhaps after defeating Aldern, the party can return to Sandpoint declaring the problem solved, but when, a few weeks later, the law from Magnimar comes tracking down the PCs for some copycat murders they can be put on that track.
I recommend a Hellknight be the one who comes a'callin'.
Nice bunch of ideas here. I am looking forward to it.
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I remember an early blurb about Skinsaw describing how the PCs themselves were accused of the Skinsaw murders and had to clear their names.
I guess that plot point didn't come to pass, but it can still be a viable way to connect the PCs to the murders if you don't want to have the note. Perhaps after defeating Aldern, the party can return to Sandpoint declaring the problem solved, but when, a few weeks later, the law from Magnimar comes tracking down the PCs for some copycat murders they can be put on that track.
I recommend a Hellknight be the one who comes a'callin'.
Yeah, the 'PCs as the accused' angle doesn't really. The accusation is made by Vinder the grocer, but comes after the PCs save the town from goblins and uncover a plot to raze it to the ground.
Sandpoint would be in a witchhunt mood, but they know their last serial killer was a local recluse. Anyone who had been a childhood friend of Tsuto would be the first suspects.
This scenario is interesting: catdragons idea
My "Sihedron-Amulet-Guy" got arrested...