Context: Since on 4E PCs recover all hit points and healing surges after an extended rest, Keith Baker (author of the Eberron campaign setting) proposes on his blog a way to handle long term injuries that would justify characters needing the care of a healing house such as Eberron's House Jorasco.
For those who can't see it (or don't want to browse the posts):
In 3E, in absence of magic, it takes a long time to recover hit points. Per page 146 of the 3.5 PHB, 8 hours of sleep allows you to recover one hit point per character level. Full bed rest doubles this. And long-term care from a trained healer can double it again. So there is a clear reason for an injured person to go to a Jorasco healing house; with proper treatment, he can get back 4 hp/level per day.
In 4E, in absence of magic, a PC recovers all of his hit points with an extended rest. Heal is used to treat disease, but this is the closest equivalent to "long-term care". Unless you create rules for it, a PC will never NEED to go to a Jorasco house for extended care - unless he has a disease.
With that said, it's actually trivial to CREATE something like a broken bone in 4E by treating it like a disease; I've done just that, in an adventure involving a shipwreck where a number of NPCs were comatose and required long-term care. It would be something like this:
Broken Arm
Level 12 disease
Special: Cannot be cured by the Cure Disease ritual
Endurance improve DC 28, Maintain DC 18
1. The victim is cured.
2. Initial Effect The target can make no use of the injured arm. This will prevent the use of a two-handed weapon or both weapon and shield. The character suffers a -1 penalty on Acrobatics, Athletics, and Thievery checks.
3. The infected break becomes painful. Increase the skill penalty to -2. The victim cannot use the arm.
4. Gangrene begins to set in. The victim cannot use the arm; increase the skill penalty to -4. The victim loses one healing surge that cannot be regained until he is cured; each subsequent failure causes an additional loss. If the victim begins the day with no healing surges, he dies.Now, I'm not going to defend this particular example. I'm literally making this up off the top of my head, and I've got better things to do than to debate the DC of a break (and I'm no doctor - though I did once get invited to join a heart practice). The idea behind the high Improve number but low Maintain is to create a condition that takes some time to heal (especially without treatment) but that isn't likely to get worse. Another option would be to set the Impove DC even higher, but have it drop by one with each failed Endurance check - so the PC WILL eventually save, but it takes time.
In any case, yes, you could create broken bones in 4E. The disease system is actually a handy way to do it. But the point is that the mechanics of 3E provide PCs with a clear use for a house of healing: long-term care to regain hit points. The rules of 4E remove this with the full recovery of hit points after a single rest. My point is that this should not be saying that everyone in the world recovers from all harm after a good night's sleep, and there's good business in healing.
Wow that's pretty cool! So let's see, kit-bashing rituals for crafting and diseases for long term injuries. I wonder what other weird uses will new processes be turned to as the books spread I wonder?
Anyone want to make up some long-term injuries then?
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Because 4th Edition came along, a special rendition of the Forgotten Realms has had to be produced to fit the edition, but when it comes to Eberron, Keith Baker is able to get the designers to rethink/invent game mechanics
Seems like Keith made that one up himself and did not influence designers to rethink or invent game mechanics. He certainly has the capacity to do so himself, as this demonstrates. He is a crafty designer in his own right.
Eberron is being retooled in similar fashion to the Realms, which is why he is "splinting" together these mechanics.
I really love the Disease mechanic in 4E. I just wish they had used it for Poisons, too.
Still, this is a great idea. The mechanic could be used for a host of things. Maybe, maybe, maybe (picture me having a nerdgasm the likes of which only Bobb Ross could fully appreciate) I can make a list of injuries, from broken bones to concussions, and roll for one randomly (I miss my random tables) each time a PC fails a Death Save while unconscious. Hmm. Torn muscles, severed tendons, broken bones, compound fractures, pierced bowels, bleeding eardrums, severe bruising and swelling, ruptured organs, internal bleeding, collapsed lung, cardiac failure, aggressive infections, compromised immune systems due to massive trauma leading to sepsis.....
Joke:
Does this mean that 'kewl moves' will be forthcoming for the Eberron setting which allow monsters and PCs to engage in bone-breaking attacks in combat? :DHeavily edited- got much too personal:
Seriously, though, I think this does demonstrate that Keith Baker has a lot of influence with WotC/Hasbro these days if he is able to get the designers to rethink/invent game mechanics, so that Eberron 'fluff' does not suddenly lose its usefulness.
Which is good news for the Eberron fans out there. :)
As far as I know Keith is a freelancer who doesn't work for WotC. This is just an idea from his own website about how to represent long-term injuries in 4E, not anything handed down as official from WotC. Although if they did take it and use it, I think it'd be pretty nifty.
I agree that some Poisons would be better suited to a disease like writeup as well, and I actually wouldn't mind too much disease like long term wounds being inflicted when you get dropped. Note that you'll be making Endurance a VERY nice skill in this variant however. Anyone trained in it is going to heal MUCH faster than others ...
I agree that some Poisons would be better suited to a disease like writeup as well, and I actually wouldn't mind too much disease like long term wounds being inflicted when you get dropped. Note that you'll be making Endurance a VERY nice skill in this variant however. Anyone trained in it is going to heal MUCH faster than others ...
Hey, that could make the likes of Raistlin less of a plot/character device and more of something that evolves out of gameplay. The low con mage who just cant roll well on his endurance check (literally) to save his life so he collects a growing list of long-term ailments. By the time he makes archmage he decides to 'ghost out' permanently since his body is such a disappointment.
I don't know...really this does nothing for me. It strikes me as trying to fit square pegs into round holes. D&D does not cover broken arms very well and drawing attention to that fact seems like a bad plan in my book.
As a story element, does this really need rules? Just use DM fiat; these sailors are injured, and you cannot instantly heal them because they are exhausted and in need of care even if you heal their hp damage. Its a story element, after all.
Wow, I'm actually more surprised at his approval of 4e. And the fact that he's written a lot about it. I'm only on his warforged article, but I really look forward to reading his LiveJournal (thought I'd never say that ever).
I also like it 'cause in the case of Eberron, no one can blame WOTC for changing his product without his permission :P
Wow, I'm actually more surprised at his approval of 4e.
Keith Baker has said time and again that 4E fits better to Eberron than 3E ever did. The House Jorasco thing may be one of the small ways in which it doesn't and I think he's done an elegant job of coming up with a solution to that problem.
Will I use broken bones in my campaign?
Maybe. Maybe not.
This approach would probably be awesome if you used the paizo critical hits deck against the PC's. It could represent vicious injuries in a more realistic way. Just an idea and I should mention I have not read the 4e disease rules so I don't know how elegant an idea this would actually be.
Because 4th Edition came along, a special rendition of the Forgotten Realms has had to be produced to fit the edition, but when it comes to Eberron, Keith Baker is able to get the designers to rethink/invent game mechanicsSeems like Keith made that one up himself and did not influence designers to rethink or invent game mechanics. He certainly has the capacity to do so himself, as this demonstrates. He is a crafty designer in his own right.
Eberron is being retooled in similar fashion to the Realms, which is why he is "splinting" together these mechanics.
It's still early to say something, but according to Keith's comments, Eberron will be mostly unchanged. No advance on timeline; gnomes will still be gnomes, elves will still be elves, and half-orcs will still be half-orcs. Hw will try to fit new places for dragonborn, tieflings eladrin.
The cosmology may be change, but's worthwile to note that the Eberron cosmology is considerably similar to the 4E cosmology.
As a story element, does this really need rules? Just use DM fiat; these sailors are injured, and you cannot instantly heal them because they are exhausted and in need of care even if you heal their hp damage. Its a story element, after all.
Good point, but what if one of the PCs is trained on Heal? Or better, if the PC is a member of House Jorasco? What if a PC is the one injured and he needs to seek help from House Jorasco for story purposes?
Such situations could be handled by improvisation, of course, but a bit of simulationism doesn't hurt.
Good point, but what if one of the PCs is trained on Heal? Or better, if the PC is a member of House Jorasco? What if a PC is the one injured and he needs to seek help from House Jorasco for story purposes?
Such situations could be handled by improvisation, of course, but a bit of simulationism doesn't hurt.
I agree with Krauser, especially in the case of the House Jorasco and healing in Eberron. The house filled an important role - providing healing to the populace not in the form of a cleric at a church. This left clerics and priests open to deny healing to non-believers but still provided a place for adventurers to stop in and repair their wounds.
I could still see a PC with the Mark of Healing to be a valuable asset to an adventuring party - being able to heal similar to cleric abilities - and perhaps this new "disease" method allows House Jorasco enclaves to make sense in the rest of the world.
Keith's been answering tons of questions relating to Eberron and 4e lately on his blog, although a lot of stuff can't be answered for legal reasons until the big Eberron DDI article comes out, and the 4e books next year as well...
There's still a good amount of food for thought for anyone running Eberron.
Seems like Keith made that one up himself and did not influence designers to rethink or invent game mechanics. He certainly has the capacity to do so himself, as this demonstrates. He is a crafty designer in his own right.
Keith is also one of the designers for 4E Ebberon, meaning that he could very well put this kind of rule into the core setting of Ebberon to represent the long term injuries that take place in a world filled with war like his.
Eberron is being retooled in similar fashion to the Realms, which is why he is "splinting" together these mechanics.
Eberron is not undergoing anything like what the Realms did. there is no time jump, no world shattering event, and more importantly, no major comology changes.
The new races are being fit neatly into the already existing world, adding to the fringes of the universe without impacting the way it was formed in 3rd edition. None of the old races are going away. Nor are the old classes, since Ebberon 4E will nto be released until after most of the old classes get remade in the PHB2.
For a good example of how things are staying the same, go and read Keith's blog from today which describes how the Shadowfell will likely work when the new version of Ebberon comes out. It's not some brand new realm, and it doesn't replace any of the old dark planar realms, it mearly expands the already existing Plane of Shadows, so that when a person moves towards one of the darker planes in Ebberon, they pass through the shadowy boundry zone that was always there, that zone is just bigger now and called the Shadowfell.
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I think it just shows that Keith is admitting how divorced from any notion of reality heling surges and going from nearly dead (or nearly out of morale) to full health after 6 hours of rest is. He's having to contrive a system to explain why people would need healers when everyone regenerates like trolls in 4E. That speaks volums about how ludicrous 4E's healing system is.
I think it just shows that Keith is admitting how divorced from any notion of reality heling surges and going from nearly dead (or nearly out of morale) to full health after 6 hours of rest is. He's having to contrive a system to explain why people would need healers when everyone regenerates like trolls in 4E. That speaks volums about how ludicrous 4E's healing system is.
Really? I think it just shows that Keith is a magic milkman who makes roses grow with a wave of his hand.
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Eberron is not undergoing anything like what the Realms did. there is no time jump, no world shattering event, and more importantly, no major comology changes.
Eberron is being retooled in similar fashion to the Realms, which is why he is "splinting" together these mechanics.
Dig it. I simply meant that it was being updated for 4e. I read the LiveJournal, too. And subscribe to a couple of the messageboards that he participates in. His comments are always insightful and revealing, as well.
Really? I think it just shows that Keith is a magic milkman who makes roses grow with a wave of his hand.
*SNORT* You made magic milk come out my nose.
I think it just shows that Keith is admitting how divorced from any notion of reality heling surges and going from nearly dead (or nearly out of morale) to full health after 6 hours of rest is. He's having to contrive a system to explain why people would need healers when everyone regenerates like trolls in 4E. That speaks volums about how ludicrous 4E's healing system is.
WotC's Nightmare is correct on this. Keith made a similar effort to explain why warforged are subject to diseases on 4E. In a more optimistic view, however, I would say that 4E system is like, uhm, the Perl programming language: easy for doing common things, and not impossible for doing uncommon things.
Keith, as the cool guy he is, is trying to help Eberron fans with the "uncommon" things.