Excerpts: Archons

[Lazaro]

Latest from the 4th Ed. Monster Manual

For those with no care to link:

Spoiler:

We designed archons to serve a parallel function to the angels: smart, organized extraplanar monsters that work for the movers and shakers beyond the world. In the case of the archons, they work for the primordials. Their backstory describes them as an important step at the dawn of time in the arms race between the deities and the primordials. When the primordials saw armies of angels, they developed an army of their own: elementals-turned-soldiers called archons, each invested with the power of a specific element.

The battle between the primordials and the deities is over—at least for the time being. But the archons remain in the service of great powers that reside within the Elemental Chaos: Efreeti pashas, primordial nagas, salamander lords, and not a few demon princes. They’re also used as guardians at larger githzerai monasteries. Most remain amid the Elemental Chaos, but over the centuries many have found their way to the world, where they roam free or are bound to primordial cults, powerful spellcasters, liches, and other individuals and groups that typically bind elementals to service.

It’s also obvious that the Monster Manual only scratches the surface of available archons. We give you three fire archons (at levels 12, 19, and 20) and three ice archons (at levels 16, 19, and 20). But the Elemental Chaos is vast, and fire and ice are only two of the many forms it takes. Now that we’ve (thankfully!) separated the word “elemental” in the D&D sense from the classical Greek elements of earth, fire, air, and water, there’s plenty of room for archons of your own design. (And I imagine you’ll see more archons from us, too.)

How to Use Archons in Your Game
Archons are useful because of their single-mindedness. They’re intelligent, but they have no culture or society of their own. They’re intentionally disconnected from their roots so that every big bad evil guy can have archons in his employ—probably acquired in some dark ritual or bargain with the sinister forces from the Abyss or wider Elemental Chaos. Likewise, every soon-to-be-disturbed tomb or secret fortress can have archon guardians; they don’t age and they don’t mind waiting centuries for interlopers (read: the PCs) to come along.

Archons share some similarities with elementals, but two important differences will often point you toward one or the other when you’re designing a D&D adventure. First, archons are a lot smarter than elementals, so they’re a good choice when you want social interaction with the PCs or a monster that shows more than ordinary cunning during a combat encounter. Second, archons are focused on a single damage type, while elementals generally display aspects of multiple elements and damage types. Archons are thus good when you want to really emphasize a single element, whether you’re mixing them with other monsters that share that damage type or deliberately choosing complementary monsters.
--Dave Noonan

Archons are militaristic creatures native to the Elemental Chaos. Vaguely humanoid in form, they serve powerful primordial entities as well as various elemental lords and princelings.

Archons trace back to an ancient time when the world had hardly been formed, when primordial beings battled the gods for control of creation. In this cataclysmic conflict, the deities marshaled armies of angels and cadres of exarchs, and though the primordials could call forth titanic beasts and giants, they could not muster a true military to face their enemies until they found the means by which elemental creatures could be reshaped and hammered into soldiers. The warriors formed through this process were the first archons.

ICE ARCHON
HAILSCOURGE

THIS ARCHON HURLS SHARDS OF ICE and besieges foes with
storms of fist-sized hailstones.

Description
The hailscourge wears ice armor but carries no weapons. It
conjures blades of ice similar in shape to shuriken and hurls
them at distant enemies.

Ice Archon Hailscourge Level 16 Artillery
Medium elemental humanoid (cold) XP 1,400
Initiative +11 Senses Perception +10
HP 120; Bloodied 60
AC 30; Fortitude 28, Refl ex 27, Will 26
Immune disease, poison; Resist 20 cold
Speed 6 (ice walk)
mSlam (standard; at-will) ✦ Cold
+19 vs. AC; 1d6 + 4 cold damage.
rIce Shuriken (standard; at-will) ✦ Cold
Ranged 6/12; +21 vs. AC; 1d6 + 4 damage plus 1d6 cold damage.
R Double Attack (standard; at-will) ✦ Cold
The ice archon hailscourge makes two ice shuriken attacks.
AHail Storm (standard; recharge ⚄ ⚅ ) ✦ Cold
Area burst 1, 2, 3, or 4 within 20; +21 vs. AC; 2d8 + 4 cold
damage. Miss: Half damage. The ice archon hailscourge
determines the exact burst radius of the hail storm.
Frost Shield (immediate interrupt, when attacked by a ranged, a
close, or an area attack; encounter) ✦ Cold
The ice archon hailscourge gains resist 20 to all damage against
the triggering attack.
Alignment Chaotic evil Languages Primordial
Str 18 (+12) Dex 16 (+11) Wis 14 (+10)
Con 18 (+12) Int 14 (+10) Cha 15 (+10)
Equipment plate armor

Ice Archon Hailscourge Tactics
The ice archon hailscourge unleashes its hail storm as often as
it can, reducing the storm’s radius as needed to avoid harming
its allies. While it waits for this power to recharge, it hurls ice
shuriken at its enemies.

Hailscourge Lore
A character knows the following information with a successful
Arcana check.
DC 20: A hailscourge prefers ranged combat over melee
combat. Hailscourges serve as artillery in elemental armies.
DC 25: The ice archon hailscourge pummels its enemies
with fist-sized chunks of ice that rain down from above. It
can also conjure and hurl jagged shards of ice resembling
shuriken.

ICE ARCHON
RIMEHAMMER

ICE ARCHON RIMEHAMMERS MAKE FINE ENFORCERS and are
often used as bodyguards by powerful elemental beings. They
are not blindingly loyal, however, and they abandon their masters
if treated poorly.

Ice Archon Rimehammer Level 19 Soldier
Medium elemental humanoid (cold) XP 2,400
Initiative +15 Senses Perception +12
Icy Ground (Cold) aura 1; enemies treat the area within the aura as
diffi cult terrain.
HP 185; Bloodied 92
AC 35; Fortitude 35, Refl ex 32, Will 31
Immune disease, poison; Resist 30 cold
Speed 6 (ice walk)
m Maul (standard; at-will) ✦ Cold, Weapon
+25 vs. AC; 2d6 + 7 damage plus 1d6 cold damage, and the
target is slowed (save ends). Against a slowed target, the
rimehammer deals an extra 2d6 cold damage.
Alignment Chaotic evil Languages Primordial
Str 24 (+16) Dex 18 (+13) Wis 16 (+12)
Con 25 (+16) Int 14 (+11) Cha 15 (+11)
Equipment plate armor, maul

Ice Archon Rimehammer Tactics
This archon uses its icy ground aura to hinder foes that are
trying to flank it. It otherwise engages in melee, using its maul
to slow enemies and the icy ground to hinder their movement
even further.

Rimehammer Lore
A character knows the following information with a successful
Arcana check.
DC 20: The ice archon rimehammer takes its name from
the icy maul it wields. The weapon is so numbingly cold that
those it strikes are barely able to walk.
DC 25: These archons are usually found in the service of
frost giants, ice archon frostshapers, and similar creatures.
However, they have been known to serve other creatures with
ties to the Elemental Chaos, including such unlikely masters
as efreets and fire giants.

[Daeglin]

Lazaro, I dub thee King of the 4e Exerpts.

Seriously, thanks for the sneak peaks you've posting the last couple of months.

[Antioch]

Yeah, sometimes I find out about an update because I'm checking in here. :-P

[Pete Apple]

This is handy too: WOTC RSS

I have to say I like the Archon concept. Being completely mercenery allows them to work for most any boss as summoned muscle. I really liked the stat blocks and powers they had available.

So far the minion's are still my favorites but these are up there. From a DM stand point the stat blocks are getting more familiar.

Pete

[Erik Mona]

On the one hand, cool. The war between the gods and the primordials is cool, and the role the archons play as the left over pawns of that war is creative and interesting.

But I'm still glad to say that archons in Pathfinder will continue to serve their traditional role. They are good guys, and you certainly won't find them serving any demon lord.

I'm starting to view 4e as an "Ultimate D&D," in the Marvel sense. That is all well and good and it makes for interesting storytelling and fresh new perspectives.

But to me it will always be an offshoot.

[Gurubabaramalamaswami]

What he said. And more.

[Antioch]

I like the archon concept. It ties in well with the whole primordial backstory, which I plan on using in a 4th Edition campaign alongside giants, titans, and other elemental critters. Already I've thought of more stuff to use them than I could with the angels-formerly-known-as-archon.

I'm curious as to other archon types. There are obvious choices to use them with (air and earth), but I'd like to see them have more varied abilities than 3rd Edition elementals. Since they are moving away from "classic" elements, this opens the door for wood, metal, and void archons as well.

[Zynete]

I kind of like the 4e archons.

I would have really liked them if they hadn't called them archons though. It's a minor detail that puts a damper on my desire for 4e fluff.

[DudeMonkey]

Erik Mona wrote:

I'm starting to view 4e as an "Ultimate D&D," in the Marvel sense. That is all well and good and it makes for interesting storytelling and fresh new perspectives.

But to me it will always be an offshoot.

I've had this comparison in my mind for a little while now. WotC is doing almost exactly the same thing with D&D that Marvel did with it's Ultimate line. I know that the Ultimate line caused a revival of sorts and consistently had at least one spot among the top 5 comics by circulation. In year 2 and 3 of the Ultimate runs, you could have published an "Ultimate Mr. Fish" comic and it probably would have exceeded the regular Spider-man.

I hope that happens here. The hobby as a whole could use a shot of vitality. I think Paizo has really upped the bar in terms of what an campaign should be like. However, as amazing as the adventure paths are, they're very inward focused in terms of the industry, largely reaching out to people who are already participants in the tabletop gaming world. My hope is that 4th edition reaches out to some new audiences and brings them into the fold, at which point they can be introduced to Paizo's awesome campaign methodologies, monster reimaginings, and adventure design.

Does anyone know how the Ultimate comics are selling now vis a vis the regular books?

[Teiran]

Daeglin wrote:

Lazaro, I dub thee King of the 4e Exerpts.

Seriously, thanks for the sneak peaks you've posting the last couple of months.

Here here, three cheers for Lazaro.

[Pete Apple]

Erik Mona wrote:

On the one hand, cool. The war between the gods and the primordials is cool, and the role the archons play as the left over pawns of that war is creative and interesting.

But I'm still glad to say that archons in Pathfinder will continue to serve their traditional role. They are good guys, and you certainly won't find them serving any demon lord.

I'm starting to view 4e as an "Ultimate D&D," in the Marvel sense. That is all well and good and it makes for interesting storytelling and fresh new perspectives.

But to me it will always be an offshoot.

Well, actually this is one change that I'm ok with. Evil angels have always been around (and they all look/sound like Christopher Walken, right? ;-) ) So evil Archon's make complete sense as well. The evil gods have some good muscle to use and don't have to turn to demons and the like.

"Ultimate D&D" is an ok comparison I suppose. Everything since "original D&D" has been an offshoot. Pathfinder is an offshoot. :-) It's like a tree branching up in all directions.

-Pete

[Antioch]

"Ultimate D&D" is an ok comparison I suppose. Everything since "original D&D" has been an offshoot. Pathfinder is an offshoot. :-) It's like a tree branching up in all directions.

My sentiments as well: Pathfinder is just as much of an offshoot.

[evilvolus]

DudeMonkey wrote:

Does anyone know how the Ultimate comics are selling now vis a vis the regular books?

Spoiler to minimize Ultimate Threadjack

Spoiler:

In a word, poorly.

Ultimate Spider-man sells about 2/3 as well as any given issue of Amazing Spider-man, which is now a weekly title.

Ultimate X-Men does even worse, selling roughly half what Uncanny X-Men does, while Uncanny remains a top-5 Marvel title. Ultimate X-Men is even losing to Wolverine: Origins, which is unreadable drek.

Ultimate FF sells anywhere from a third to a half of what regular FF sells, since regular FF bounces from a top-10 to a sub-25 title seemingly at random.

The various minis perform on par with UFF.

The closest thing to a shining light it has is The Ultimates, which is a top-5 title when it bothers to come out. Which is never.

[evilvolus]

So, 1 ice shuriken is a standard, at-will action. 2 ice shurikens is a standard, at-will action. That smells like a waste of stat-block space, why not create a single ability that combines both descriptions?

[David Marks]

evilvolus wrote:

So, 1 ice shuriken is a standard, at-will action. 2 ice shurikens is a standard, at-will action. That smells like a waste of stat-block space, why not create a single ability that combines both descriptions?

If you check out the actual pdf you'll see a one ice shuriken attack is a basic attack, while the double hitter isn't. This is important for effects that key off that basic attack descriptor.

Cheers! :)

[Jason Grubiak]

Antioch wrote:

"Ultimate D&D" is an ok comparison I suppose. Everything since "original D&D" has been an offshoot. Pathfinder is an offshoot. :-) It's like a tree branching up in all directions.

My sentiments as well: Pathfinder is just as much of an offshoot.

Oh it definitly is...It just seems truer or more similar to what has come before.

Im sure Paizo would have loved staying even more true to what D&D's classic fluff was like and maybe even published Greyhawk stuff instead of Pathfinder if they were allowed to.

[Bleach]

evilvolus wrote:

So, 1 ice shuriken is a standard, at-will action. 2 ice shurikens is a standard, at-will action. That smells like a waste of stat-block space, why not create a single ability that combines both descriptions?

I've noticed this in other monsters as well. Check the Earth Titan from last week for something similar.

My understanding is that WOTC doesn't want the same damage if a basic attack is called for (basic attacks are any attacks with a circle around them). For example, if the DM for some reason wanted to charge the attack at the end of the charge has to be a basic attack.

Similarly, if an OA is triggered, only basic attacks can be used.

However, if said monster is in "position", by having an attack that basically doubles the damage at will, they can more accurately balance it.

[crosswiredmind]

David Marks wrote:

evilvolus wrote:

So, 1 ice shuriken is a standard, at-will action. 2 ice shurikens is a standard, at-will action. That smells like a waste of stat-block space, why not create a single ability that combines both descriptions?

If you check out the actual pdf you'll see a one ice shuriken attack is a basic attack, while the double hitter isn't. This is important for effects that key off that basic attack descriptor.

Cheers! :)

Yep. And there are times when you can only make a basic attack.

[Antioch]

Jason Grubiak wrote:

Antioch wrote:

"Ultimate D&D" is an ok comparison I suppose. Everything since "original D&D" has been an offshoot. Pathfinder is an offshoot. :-) It's like a tree branching up in all directions.

My sentiments as well: Pathfinder is just as much of an offshoot.

Oh it definitly is...It just seems truer or more similar to what has come before.

Im sure Paizo would have loved staying even more true to what D&D's classic fluff was like and maybe even published Greyhawk stuff instead of Pathfinder if they were allowed to.

I would say that Pathfinder is "truer" to 3rd Edition D&D rules, but thats about it. 4th Edition seems to better embrace classic concepts and play styles because of the change in rules.

[crosswiredmind]

Antioch wrote:

I would say that Pathfinder is "truer" to 3rd Edition D&D rules, but thats about it. 4th Edition seems to better embrace classic concepts and play styles because of the change in rules.

Hmmm. Could be. I will say this though - the wizard in our group has spent more time being a wizard then as a really crappy archer like he would in 3.5

[Sebastian]

Can't say I'm a fan of the archons, but I've never been big on elemental themed monsters. I'm a bit bummed that giants are getting painted with the elementally themed brush as well. In any event, I didn't use archons at all in 3e and I rarely used giants, so I'm glad they shook them each up a little, even if it's not in my sweet spot.

[Antioch]

crosswiredmind wrote:

Antioch wrote:

I would say that Pathfinder is "truer" to 3rd Edition D&D rules, but thats about it. 4th Edition seems to better embrace classic concepts and play styles because of the change in rules.

Hmmm. Could be. I will say this though - the wizard in our group has spent more time being a wizard then as a really crappy archer like he would in 3.5

Indeed. The wizard in our KotS playtest also liked the fact that she didnt have to hoard her magic most of the time, relying on ineffectual melee/ranged attacks as an excuse to roll the dice.

Normally when she plays a bard, she "turns on" bardic music and more or less stops paying attention because her attacks are so poor that she can barely hit anything, and her damage output is so low that against a monster with any DR at all, she generally cant hurt it.
Oh! Sometimes when someone is hurt, she rolls out a crummy cure spell. It doesnt exactly counteract the damage being dealt, but I suppose it buys a round for the real cleric to get over there and do some actual healing.

[Erik Mona]

Antioch wrote:

"Ultimate D&D" is an ok comparison I suppose. Everything since "original D&D" has been an offshoot. Pathfinder is an offshoot. :-) It's like a tree branching up in all directions.

My sentiments as well: Pathfinder is just as much of an offshoot.

No.

Pathfinder is _more_ of an offshoot. It cannot be anything but, since it is not Dungeons & Dragons.

[David Marks]

This DnD as branching tree analogy is silly. If DnD is any plant, it is obviously a shrubbery.

Cheers! :)

[Charles Evans 25]

Hmmm. Another apparent volte face.
On the 24th of December, 2007, in the 'Ecology of the Fire Archon Article' over on the DDI at Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro:

Matthew Sernett wrote:

All fire archon societies inevitably strike outward, and the leader determines the direction and target. When they do, the archons seek to lay waste to nearly everything they encounter. Archons tend to avoid building or creating anything, but they will make fortifications when fighting a long-term conflict or to protect a valuable resource, such as a fire font and foundry. Fire archons prefer not to do such work themselves, and when possible, they enslave conquered people and use them for forced labor. Such slaves face a bleak existence held by captors that have no empathy and no use for them once the job is done. Slaves with an interest in their future therefore find ways to remain useful, playing upon the fire archon's sense of superiority and concern about foes.

Many fire archons owe their existence to the efreeti, and these archons seek to emulate their creators, even long after being freed from their control. They are far more inclined to take and keep slaves, build structures, and secure territory. They often attempt to create an environment similar to that which surrounds the City of Brass -- a task aided by the effect the presence of fire archons can have on the environment.

By comparison, in part of the recent DDI article Lazaro has presented above:

4E Monster Manual wrote:

How to Use Archons in Your Game

Archons are useful because of their single-mindedness. They’re intelligent, but they have no culture or society of their own. They’re intentionally disconnected from their roots so that every big bad evil guy can have archons in his employ—probably acquired in some dark ritual or bargain with the sinister forces from the Abyss or wider Elemental Chaos. Likewise, every soon-to-be-disturbed tomb or secret fortress can have archon guardians; they don’t age and they don’t mind waiting centuries for interlopers (read: the PCs) to come along.

I find interesting that the aforementioned Ecology of the Fire Archon article explained how very few elemental creatures had had societies/cultures, which was part of the driving force for the innovation for the Fire Archon for 4E*; and now all of a sudden, archons (presumably including Fire Archons, unless they are an exception) have no culture or society of their own.

I wish I knew what was going on over there at Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro; Are they not able to make their minds up, is one department not talking to another one, are they maybe responding to some kind of feedback?

*

Matthew Sarnett wrote:

The elementals of 3rd Edition have no needs, no clear desires or motivations, and no culture, yet they attain human Intelligence, speak, and can manipulate objects. They exist in limitless numbers on the elemental planes, but they build nothing and make no lasting impression upon the game. Mechanically, they exist as neat creatures to summon or put in a dungeon and nothing more. What do they do on the elemental planes besides attack interlopers? What do they care about? In 3rd Edition, we have only vague ideas that they fight each other. If they were dumb beasts, they would make more sense. If they had a culture and did interesting things like invade the Material Plane, they would be better. But the elementals of 3rd Edition don't do either. Most creatures of the elemental type follow suit, and you have to look at outsiders such as salamanders and genies for interesting creatures with elemental themes.

Add to this the fact that the elementals' mechanics are either boring or complex. Most of them simply walk up to a PC and hit the character with a fist. Fire elementals at least do fire damage, but it hardly screams cool to face an elemental and have it act like an ogre without Power Attack. It doesn't even whisper it. The flip side of this includes mechanics such as the air elemental's whirlwind. Any mechanic that makes a person look up weather conditions in the Dungeon Master's Guide is just begging to be "forgotten" by the DM.
We tried to rectify this in the late stages of 3rd Edition. You can see various attempts in Monster Manuals III, IV, and V, the most successful probably being the avatars of elemental evil of Monster Manual IV. Yet such inventions were a band-aid on a scar over thirty years old. The new edition offered a chance to shuffle thing up a bit, give elementals a new hand, and deal in some new players.

Edit:

Conceivably, yes, the apparent rings reversal (removal of proposed 4E minimum level to use a ring?) and now this possible Archon background adjustment may be two of a very few minor changes in the greater scheme of things. I'm starting to wonder, though, if there was a sudden unexpected rush to push through the 4E project which is resulting (due to its scope and complexity) in some of these late changes now becoming evident.

[Bleach]

How about a simpler explanation?

They changed their minds? Fire archons are an abnormality and are the only ones WITH a society maybe?

[Charles Evans 25]

Bleach wrote:

How about a simpler explanation?

They changed their minds? Fire archons are an abnormality and are the only ones WITH a society maybe?

I think I acknowledged that fire archons might be an exception in the greater scheme of things. The trouble with exceptions, though, is that they end up piling up, so that there are more and more exceptions to try to remember....

Edit:
To make clear, given the scale of the 4E project, I would not be surprised if a few things had slipped through earlier but were now being noticed and 'tidied up'; I suspect that right until PathFinder RPG goes to print, there will still be last minute adjustments and improvements being made. I am concerned if there are a lot of these adjustments being made at this stage though, and what that may say about the 'play state' of the first print run of 4E.

[Charles Evans 25]

Ick. Double posted.

Ah well; Time for a joke. There's this great worm gold dragon, an archmage, and Vecna who all walk into a bar, and a debate starts about who's the most intelligent of them..... :D