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Despite the surprising amount of NSFW fan art of those two floating around the internet, I don't think we've ever actually said they're an item. :PI'm PRETTY SURE that, my headcanon aside, canon-Valeros is hetero and involved with Imrijka...the question may be more asked "which is heterosexual?"
If you read the comic you already know two homosexual characters--they have shown them.
They have yet to show us a heterosexual couple from the iconics
Well I will neither confirm nor deny that I've ever seen any of that artwork, but I will take your word for it. ;)
Despite the surprising amount of NSFW fan art of those two floating around the internet, I don't think we've ever actually said they're an item. :PI'm PRETTY SURE that, my headcanon aside, canon-Valeros is hetero and involved with Imrijka...the question may be more asked "which is heterosexual?"
If you read the comic you already know two homosexual characters--they have shown them.
They have yet to show us a heterosexual couple from the iconics
You didn't deny that, either.
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Despite the surprising amount of NSFW fan art of those two floating around the internet, I don't think we've ever actually said they're an item. :PI'm PRETTY SURE that, my headcanon aside, canon-Valeros is hetero and involved with Imrijka...the question may be more asked "which is heterosexual?"
If you read the comic you already know two homosexual characters--they have shown them.
They have yet to show us a heterosexual couple from the iconics
I WANT TO BELIEVE
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I WANT TO BELIEVEDespite the surprising amount of NSFW fan art of those two floating around the internet, I don't think we've ever actually said they're an item. :PI'm PRETTY SURE that, my headcanon aside, canon-Valeros is hetero and involved with Imrijka...the question may be more asked "which is heterosexual?"
If you read the comic you already know two homosexual characters--they have shown them.
They have yet to show us a heterosexual couple from the iconics
My personal headcanon is that Val is bi and pretty much wants to boink everyone.
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My personal headcanon is that Val is bi and pretty much wants to boink everyone.I WANT TO BELIEVEDespite the surprising amount of NSFW fan art of those two floating around the internet, I don't think we've ever actually said they're an item. :PI'm PRETTY SURE that, my headcanon aside, canon-Valeros is hetero and involved with Imrijka...the question may be more asked "which is heterosexual?"
If you read the comic you already know two homosexual characters--they have shown them.
They have yet to show us a heterosexual couple from the iconics
I certainly wouldn't rule that out. It's just that Val/Imrijka is particularly D'AWWW-sy. :)
I certainly wouldn't rule that out. It's just that Val/Imrijka is particularly D'AWWW-sy. :)My personal headcanon is that Val is bi and pretty much wants to boink everyone.I WANT TO BELIEVEDespite the surprising amount of NSFW fan art of those two floating around the internet, I don't think we've ever actually said they're an item. :PI'm PRETTY SURE that, my headcanon aside, canon-Valeros is hetero and involved with Imrijka...the question may be more asked "which is heterosexual?"
If you read the comic you already know two homosexual characters--they have shown them.
They have yet to show us a heterosexual couple from the iconics
Except when Imrijka's half-orcish fangs make Val go Ouch-ouch-ouch...
Except when Imrijka's half-orcish fangs make Val go Ouch-ouch-ouch...I certainly wouldn't rule that out. It's just that Val/Imrijka is particularly D'AWWW-sy. :)My personal headcanon is that Val is bi and pretty much wants to boink everyone.I WANT TO BELIEVEDespite the surprising amount of NSFW fan art of those two floating around the internet, I don't think we've ever actually said they're an item. :PI'm PRETTY SURE that, my headcanon aside, canon-Valeros is hetero and involved with Imrijka...the question may be more asked "which is heterosexual?"
If you read the comic you already know two homosexual characters--they have shown them.
They have yet to show us a heterosexual couple from the iconics
I guess we know how he got his scars then.
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I just got the chance to sit down and read "Inheritance" - its really good! I'm with Gorby - this story has some scenes that are so sweet I've got cavities now :DD
I would totally love to see a novel staring these two :)
I apologize if I've missed this in the 90+ pages in this thread, but I'm curious how open/common (for lack of better words) homosexuality and/or gay marriages are in Golarion.
Without spoiling anything, but I'm playing a slightly dim-witted/naive barbarian in a recent adventure who just found out about a gay marriage. I'm playing him as confused by the concept (in his defense, he was also confused by the concept of mongrelmen not being horrible monsters), but I realized I have no idea whether this would actually be something that is no odder than straight marriage to him.
Are gay relationships no different to the folks of Golarion than straight ones, or is there some sense that they're less common/other than normal? Are there places where gay pairings more accepted and others where they're taboo?
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It probably varies a lot. You're free to play your barbarian as coming from a tribe in which gender roles are enforced to a much greater extent than usual, and in which same-sex pairings are not considered proper marriages, since they don't contribute new life to the tribe, or something like that.
Your barbarian is probably also confused by marriages between races that aren't able to procreate together, or state marriages where the people in question barely know each other, don't like each other, and live in completely separate households.
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So anybody read about atleast (I have not got that far yet) one homesexual, cross race relationship in Towns of the Inner Sea?
So anybody read about atleast (I have not got that far yet) one homesexual, cross race relationship in Towns of the Inner Sea?
Alas, still waiting for my PDF. Hopefully today!
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Is anyone else frustrated by the production delays for Homosexuals of Golarion?
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Is anyone else frustrated by the production delays for Homosexuals of Golarion?
I still say asexual characters need to be nerfed and bisexual ones need a boost.
Being vulnerable to preference-targetted charm effects is BREAKING THE GAME. >:(
Must not make joke about magic items...
Oh well thanks, now I can't stop thinking about it.
...
y'know...a Collar of the Shielded Submissive that acted as a shield other between them and their dominant partner could actually OH DAMMIT I WENT DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE
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"+1 flaming club"
Every time I draw a series of dots, I have to draw Pacman eating them.
When hunting for a Pacman, it helps to have mythic power.
I hope we will get some more information on Arshea and I wouldn’t mind more bisexual NPCs.
Slightly Off topic:
I’ve heard there is a Pathfinder story out with the first Human-Gnome interracial couple? Is it a same sex couple?
Anyone know where I can get the story? Is it a book or a party of an AP or what? I guess they have to adopt children or find surrogate mothers/fathers if they plan on having children.
edit:
Found they story thanks to one of Mikaze's posts. Thanks Mikaze :D
I'm gonna start reading Gabrielle Harbowy's Inheritance right now.
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Here's the first part of Inheritance, Zark. All of the chapters are available on the blog. And yes, it's a same-sex, human-gnome couple.
It's just webfiction, telling a little story on one corner of Golarion. And it's so cute you might die, so be careful.
Thanks. It is great. The stuff is fantastic.
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not the nine o'clock news:
So anybody read about atleast (I have not got that far yet) one homesexual, cross race relationship in Towns of the Inner Sea?
I have. It is the town in the Holds of Belkzen. Not only are they cross species, but it's Dwarf/Orc (technically half). Posting from work at the moment so I can't reference directly, but I know the wife makes a pretty blue comment regarding...
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So anybody read about atleast (I have not got that far yet) one homesexual, cross race relationship in Towns of the Inner Sea?I have. It is the town in the Holds of Belkzen. Not only are they cross species, but it's Dwarf/Orc (technically half). Posting from work at the moment so I can't reference directly, but I know the wife makes a pretty blue comment regarding...
** spoiler omitted **
I am totally in love with Agrit Staginsdar and Sara Morninghawk and I want a WAFF-y novel about how they met so much now.
So anybody read about atleast (I have not got that far yet) one homesexual, cross race relationship in Towns of the Inner Sea?I have. It is the town in the Holds of Belkzen. Not only are they cross species, but it's Dwarf/Orc (technically half). Posting from work at the moment so I can't reference directly, but I know the wife makes a pretty blue comment regarding...
** spoiler omitted **
There is also the halfling and dwarf from Falconcrest. What is more interesting are their alignments though.
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Is it really necesary to have everything on earth f%# friendly? Sexual orientation is something that has no business being incorporated into an rpg.... if you feel the need for such perversion you could add it yourself.
I don't hold anything personally against the gay community like some people do, but i for one am sick of it being shoved into the face of the world through the popular media.Nobody really cares to see that, and a certain level of decency that once seemed to exist is rapidly fading away.Keep it to yourselves.Without getting too riled up by your post...
Yes. It is necessary. Just as it's necessary to move beyond having every PC and NPC in the game be white. And why it's important to show women in positions of power (be they bad like Queen Ileosa or good like Mayor Kendra or whatever.) It's called diversity, and it's a Good Thing. If diversity isn't something that you're interested in, Paizo products might not be for you.
This... Just forever. This is the reason I turn to Pathfinder products!
As a woman, I love seeing just as many (or more) women in suitable armor as women dressed in clothes like Seoni's. Sexual relationships are the same. I like knowing that there are multiple types of sexuality in the world (though I agree, it seems to be a bit more lenient/noted for the female characters than the male ones... I didn't know about the Sandpoint couple until now) and I like knowing that everybody isn't white. This is the world I want to play in!
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I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately, and I would describe my feelings on it as... mixed.
I think it's fantastic that Paizo is reaching out to a community that is largely underrepresented or stereotyped in mainstream media, but the way homosexuality is seems to be represented on Golarion seems to be far too idealistic, and often glossed over. All in all, it doesn't seem to me like it's being handled in a mature fashion.
I am myself heterosexual, so presume no empirical understanding of what it's like to grow up in a society where your sexual orientation makes you a minority. I do have several gay friends, though, and even though this fact about them tends be nothing more than a passing factoid in casual conversation, once I have gotten to know them they have invariably intimidated the magnitude of its impact on their personal identity. They have often struggled against the pressures of society to be "normal," and in most cases there have been several formative events in their life that are either a cause or an effect of their orientation. This is not something that comes across in most PF products. More often than not the reference is nothing more than a footnote in an NPCs history. I have often found myself reading about an NPC, then mention is made of their lover and I'm like "Oh, hey, they're gay."
I understand that Golarion is NOT Earth, and that it is a fantasy setting. It may be that Paizo is attempting to create a world in which homosexual or transexual players free to express this facet of themselves without prejudice. However, I feel that that very lack of prejudice strikes a blow to the verisimilitude of the game, and also cheapens the noble efforts of Paizo. There is racism in Golarion. There is sexism. Both of these have even come, in one degree or another, from good-aligned sources. However, NPCs within Golarion are seem like they are NEVER allowed to be singled out for being gay (not since that first gay couple in Sandpoint, at least). The game world's attitude seems to be "whatever floats your boat man." That may be what we need to be aiming for as a society, but it is NOT where we are at right now (sad as that may be), and I honestly think that keeping it in the game, and making at least a passing mention of how various NPCs have dealt with it differently would make them more relateable to homosexual players that may have gone through the same thing. As they are written, I get the impression that a lot of the homosexual NPCs where all written up with no orientation in mind, than someone went through the books and was like "Let's make these ones gay."
Beyond that, am I the only one who is a little bothered by the fact that most (not all, but most) of the gay couples seem to be two young, attractive females?
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I think sexual orientation/gender identity is treated the same way as equality as sexes. It's meant to be set up a game setting that is equally assessable to everyone. They treat the modern baseline as default and don't try to bring real world history into it. To a lesser degree, so is how they treat race...yes there is a bit of racial persecution in some corners (Sargava), and tensions elsewhere (Shoanti versus recent settlers), but it's not a defining attribute to a race, and doesn't seem to heavily play into the backstory of the iconics (I don't think?).
The thing I keep in mind is that Golarion is a game setting, which is different from a novel setting. Golarion is constructed to provide a fun backdrop to adventures that cater to as wide an audience as possible. That means some aspects get glossed over (The Kitchen Sink nature of the setting, etc).
A fantasy novel written by one person needs to spend more time carefully structuring a setting, and can also deal with issues of sexism, sexual orientation, and racism as part of the narrative.
I love Game of Thrones and think the book does a great job of being a realistic treatment of how a medieval society would actually work regarding treatment of the different sexes, etc. But I would hate to be have to play a female character in an RPG set up within that setting.
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Beyond that, am I the only one who is a little bothered by the fact that most (not all, but most) of the gay couples seem to be two young, attractive females?
This is one area that I found Paizo taking a step backward. Instead of showcasing more gay male couples (there are indeed more gay males in real life than gay female), they resort to Lesbian couples, which is more acceptable in mainstream media because it caters to Heterosexual male fantasies.
Sometimes wonder if this isn't something of an anti-male thing going on at Paizo.I don't mind seeing female characters, as it struck me odd that the 1E D&D Players Handbook didn't have a single woman on the cover, but sometimes I do wonder if Paizo didn't go a little overboard.
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This is one area that I found Paizo taking a step backward. Instead of showcasing more gay male couples (there are indeed more gay males in real life than gay female), they resort to Lesbian couples, which is more acceptable in mainstream media because it caters to Heterosexual male fantasies.
Does anyone know what the actual ratio of female to male gay characters is at this point? Off the top of my head, I can think of 6 gay male characters, and 1 potentially bi male character (isn't Seltyiel bi?), 8 gay female characters, and one 1 bi female character (Merisiel). So, 6+1 to 8+1, which doesn't seem to me like a huge disparity. But I might be missing some. I'm not as familiar with Paizo's older products as their more recent stuff. And there might be some of either gender tucked away in the NPC Codex that I'm forgetting.
At any rate, I'd be willing to bet that any disparity in the number of gay male characters in their products to gay female characters is not a result of trying to appear more acceptable to mainstream media or of trying to cater to heterosexual male fantasies. That doesn't fit with the various statements Paizo employees have made, on the board and elsewhere, on the subject of LGBT representation.
For example, see Wes Schneider's comments to Know Direction earlier this year, including this bit (referring to a question about trans characters):
...a gamer at a convention told me she’d like to see a character she could relate to in our games. She wanted someone like her to slay monsters, cast magic, and be a hero.
No problem. I can do that. After all, that’s what Pathfinder is all about.
I also think it's possible to discuss any issues one has with Paizo's implementation of LGBT characters (such as the lack of trans men) without assuming that the source of any faults they might have or missteps they may have taken are a result of the sort of opportunism that you're suggesting. Or without describing it as immature, as martinaj did earlier.
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I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable labeling the NPCs we've seen so far as strictly gay or lesbian. We've seen them portrayed in gay and lesbian relationships, but that doesn't mean that at least one of the partners isn't bi.
That could also mean that any of the hetero couples we've seen so far may also have one (or both) bi individuals, and the bi NPC has simply fallen in love with a partner who just happens to be straight. Which would be interesting to see a presumed hetero NPC from a previous AP or sourcebook turn up in a later product, possibly grieving over the loss of the previous straight partner, and then through the course of the AP growing attracted to a compatible PC of either gender.
Edit: Oops, didn't mean to catch KSF with a ninja edit.
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I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable labeling the NPCs we've seen so far as strictly gay or lesbian. We've seen them portrayed in gay and lesbian relationships, but that doesn't mean that at least one of the partners isn't bi.
That could also mean that any of the hetero couples we've seen so far may also have one (or both) bi individuals, and the bi NPC has simply fallen in love with a partner who just happens to be straight.
That's a really good point.
Edit: No worries. The dangers of rapid replies.
I agree with your added point as well. Part of the trickiness with indicating a bi orientation is that you can't take the usual approach for apparent indication of orientation, by simply mentioning the gender of the character's partner. This would be one way around that.
I am sure at some level lesbian relationships are a bit safer to pursue than male homosexual ones. At least, I seem to notice more of the former in genre fiction.
However in the most recent AP there is equal representation. at the very least nowadays they seem to be comfortable portraying both types of relationships.