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So Ameiko is going to take over the family business... and the wizard in our group has always wanted to run a restaurant or inn.
I originally asked for 30,000 gp but am starting to think that might be too much.
The 3.0 DMG lists a house at 1000 gp and a grand manor at 5000 gp.
Would 10,000-20,000 be a fairer price?
Thoughts?
Director of Brand Strategy
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So Ameiko is going to take over the family business... and the wizard in our group has always wanted to run a restaurant or inn.
I originally asked for 30,000 gp but am starting to think that might be too much.
The 3.0 DMG lists a house at 1000 gp and a grand manor at 5000 gp.
Would 10,000-20,000 be a fairer price?
Thoughts?
IIRC, DMG2 has info on PC's running businesses. This should be taken into account when pricing the cost of a tavern, as your wizard will continue to gain revenue from the business (unless goblins burn it down ;-D ). There's more to it than just buying the building itself.
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IIRC, DMG2 has info on PC's running businesses. This should be taken into account when pricing the cost of a tavern, as your wizard will continue to gain revenue from the business (unless goblins burn it down ;-D ). There's more to it than just buying the building itself.
There could be dragon fire damage to it fairly soon I guess, which might lower the price somewhat. :)
But still, what would be a fair price? I don't have the DMG2 so can't at the moment reference it.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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IIRC, DMG2 has info on PC's running businesses. This should be taken into account when pricing the cost of a tavern, as your wizard will continue to gain revenue from the business (unless goblins burn it down ;-D ). There's more to it than just buying the building itself.There could be dragon fire damage to it fairly soon I guess, which might lower the price somewhat. :)
But still, what would be a fair price? I don't have the DMG2 so can't at the moment reference it.
Man, these tables are complicated (James, was this your doing?).
Ok, it looks like the building itself is in the 5000 gp range. The capital to start an inn or tavern in a town would be 8000 gp, and would require the hiring of 5 employees for upkeep. The cost for upkeep per month (including wages, materials, building maintenance, etc.) is built into the Profit Check, which is too lengthy a table to reproduce here, and I'd feel bad doing it anyway.
So my suggestion is that the Rusty Dragon, which in theory Ameiko is willing to sell for cheap as she owes the party for saving the day and all that, and she is rich and doesn't necessarily need to make a profit on its sale, should be available to a PC for the same price it would cost him to start it up in the first place (13000 gp). Then, to see how much it either costs him or he earns from its operation, I would refer to DMG2 p. 183-184.
Now that I'm reading over the rules and everything, I want to encourage my players to do the same when I run either CotCT or RotR this summer. Let me know how it goes!
From the DMG2 it looks like the PC will need the skill Profession(Innkeeper) to make the check for profit. If he has 5 ranks the skills sense motive and profession(Brewer or cook) then he gets a +1 for each, 10 ranks gets a +2, 15 ranks gets a +3. Sandpoint may or may not have a guild the PC can join if the PC joins a guild then that's a +1. The PC needs to be there at least 8 hours a week or he gets a -8 to the roll. Full time gets a +2, and business savvy feat is a +2 also. It's a high risk so that gives a -4 to the roll. If the PC failed in the previous check give 'em a -1 to the roll. Only as good as your last brewsky.
Now the Innkeeper skill check is DCs 25 everything over 25 is gravy. Multiply the results by 50gp. If lower than 25 multiply it by 50gp for the loss amount. Rolled a one with no modifiers ouch fork over 1,200 gp buddy.
So you want to own a tavern huh?
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(Edited for Link)
James Jacobs, asked about the price of a house/business in Sandpoint on the Pathfinder Chat last night, recommended that it would probably be about the same price as a house/business in the Midland District of Korvosa, if the 64 page Guide to Korvosa is available.
Hmmm... That seems a little pricey. That would put a house at 20,000-30000 gp. I was thinking that the average citizen of Sandpoint was owning their own house, but I can't see them being able to afford that. In Korvosa however, most people, I believe rent.
The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards just asking 20,000 gp for the Rusty Dragon, a little less if it does take damage.
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Creative Director
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Yeah... the pricing for houses is a bit wacky. Another way the D&D economy is kinda broken, alas. The rules in the DMG II are actually a pretty good place to go for running businesses, though (yeah, I designed that section); they worked out all right for me in my home campaign. As for actual pricing of houses... the In City prices of Korvosa are indeed probably too high for In Town prices for Sandpoint...
Yeah... the pricing for houses is a bit wacky. Another way the D&D economy is kinda broken, alas. The rules in the DMG II are actually a pretty good place to go for running businesses, though (yeah, I designed that section); they worked out all right for me in my home campaign. As for actual pricing of houses... the In City prices of Korvosa are indeed probably too high for In Town prices for Sandpoint...
Hey! Cool! I can have design input!
The prices for houses in Korvosa were changed at my prompting. The way Mike had them originally, an individual could have bought the place with about two years' rent, as I remember. I urged him to bump that up closer to 20 or 30 years' rent, about in line with a modern-day mortgage.
And to elaborate on James' comment of "In City prices of Korvosa are indeed probably too high for In Town prices for Sandpoint..."
Korvosa is a major city in the area. Sandpoint is a small town. The home prices in Sandpoint should be much lower, in my mind (by orders of magnitude). But I'm coming from a real-world economy perspective on that.
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Korvosa is a major city in the area. Sandpoint is a small town. The home prices in Sandpoint should be much lower, in my mind (by orders of magnitude). But I'm coming from a real-world economy perspective on that.
The wizard already bought a house in Sandpoint, I charged, by the book, 1000 gp. Which feels about right, economy wise.
It was, incidentally, the home left empty because of a monster having been in the closet.
On an only semi related note, the cleric in the group is setting up a temple to Erastil on Thistle-top. His followers are doing the work whilst he is at Hook Mountain. The Archer has somewhat reluctantly agreed to take possession of Fort Rannik.
The prices for houses in Korvosa were changed at my prompting. The way Mike had them originally, an individual could have bought the place with about two years' rent, as I remember. I urged him to bump that up closer to 20 or 30 years' rent, about in line with a modern-day mortgage.
And to elaborate on James' comment of "In City prices of Korvosa are indeed probably too high for In Town prices for Sandpoint..."
Korvosa is a major city in the area. Sandpoint is a small town. The home prices in Sandpoint should be much lower, in my mind (by orders of magnitude). But I'm coming from a real-world economy perspective on that.
I would say the published purchase prices in Korvosa are too high. They appear to be calculated at 300 times monthly rental cost. That makes 25 years of rental payments, which is too high. Rental payments include overhead for maintenance and management that is not included in purchase costs. A better estimate would be about half that.
The cost of both rental and purchase could be significantly lower in Sandpoint, since city real estate prices tend to be higher. For real estate in the countryside, the price would be even less. You could easily drop the price in Sandpoint by a factor of 2-3 from the adjusted Korvosa prices, and another factor of 2-3 for houses that are not within the protected confines of a town or city.
One other thing to consider: one can argue that Korvosa, with its huge surplus of housing, should have depressed prices, and drop those by another factor of 2. That should not apply to Sandpoint yet.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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One other thing to consider: one can argue that Korvosa, with its huge surplus of housing, should have depressed prices, and drop those by another factor of 2. That should not apply to Sandpoint yet.
I think Magnimar, with its high number of vacant buildings would have lower housing costs, but much of Korvosa is full, so housing would be in higher demand.