I know I've seen a post from the designer working on the Druid (presumably for the PHB II, but who knows?) saying that they were, indeed, a Hybrid role. Also, he mentioned they had roughly 80 powers over their 30 level span. Interesting post, wish I had a link to offer!
In the Races and Classes preview book, I think it was, they said that the 4E Druid was likely to focus on wildshaping, as that was the Druid's big specialty skill, that no one else got. I'm not sure if the more Nature magic side of the Druid will be spun into its own class or if that its inclusion is the source of the Druid's "hybrid" role now though.
For PHB II I predict Psionics, for at least two or three classes, possibly four. Don't forget Eberron is released next year, meaning they'll want many of the things important for Eberron to be released as well. I also expect Druids, and possibly Barbarians and Sorcerors (from the Primal source?). So lets say "My PHB II predictions:
Psion Psionic Controller
Mindblade Psionic Striker
Psychic Warrior Psionic Defender
Ardent Psionic Leader (who knows what, or if, the Psionic Leader will be?)
Druid Primal Hybrid (which two? Defender/Striker? Controller/Defender?)
Barbarian Primal ?? (Striker? Defender? Hybrid again?)
Sorceror Primal ?? (Striker? Controller?)
Bard Arcane Leader
Just my thoughts though, Cheers! :)
I know I've seen a post from the designer working on the Druid (presumably for the PHB II, but who knows?) saying that they were, indeed, a Hybrid role. Also, he mentioned they had roughly 80 powers over their 30 level span. Interesting post, wish I had a link to offer!
In the Races and Classes preview book, I think it was, they said that the 4E Druid was likely to focus on wildshaping, as that was the Druid's big specialty skill, that no one else got. I'm not sure if the more Nature magic side of the Druid will be spun into its own class or if that its inclusion is the source of the Druid's "hybrid" role now though.
Indeed! If you find that link please post it.
Well then, given that the Druid will be a hyrbid, the question is what kind of hyrbid? Are we talking a combination of two roles? Or are they going to get really ambitious and try and make the druid fit all the roles?
The two roles idea would make the most sense to me, as a Striker/Leader combination would make a lot of sense based upon what they had in 3.5. Their expanded wildshaping powers could translate neatly into their striker role, while their spells become their leader aspect powers. And yes, I realize I'm pushing quite hard on the idea that a druid would be a leader type, but thats because of how often I've seen them be the party healer in 3.5, while still putting out a significant amount of damage. So, yah, Striker/Leader is my bet.
Let's just hope Hyrbid classes don't suck in 4E like they did in 3.5
For PHB II I predict Psionics, for at least two or three classes, possibly four. Don't forget Eberron is released next year, meaning they'll want many of the things important for Eberron to be released as well. I also expect Druids, and possibly Barbarians and Sorcerors (from the Primal source?).
Hmmm... you're right, Ebberron had a bunch of Psionic stuff in it. And i seem to remember them sayign they wanted to focus on expanding the power sources. So they probably will do the Psionic power source along with the Primal power source in the PHB2 then.
With that in mind, I would say your predicitions are pretty good.
The Psion Psionic Controller
Mindblade Psionic Striker
Psychic Warrior Psionic Defender
all make a lot of sense, and the
Bard Arcane Leader is almost a given at this point since they did so much work on them already.
The two obvious Primal classes are
Druid Primal Hybrid (Striker/Leader)
Barbarian Primal (Defender i bet, or possibly Defender/Striker.)
but the Sorceror as a Primal Striker? Could be.
Has anybody seen anything about them swithcing the Sorceror to a Primal power source over Arcane? It could make some sense, as Sorcerors were supposed to be born with their powers, and it would allow them to give the Sorceror a distinct flair that could be very different from the wizard. And, it would give the Primal power source a nice spread of roles and classes.
I am pretty sure that the final class will probably be Monk. It is one of the Core 3.5 classes which has been left out of the PHB1, and whatever role they make it, it'll be in the PHB2 I bet.
...
Can you tell I'm bored today?
I'll go looking for that post, since you asked so nicely, but thought I'd comment on the Sorcerer first.
The reason I speculate he'll be Primal now is a few reasons. Because of the new resource-management system in 4E, the 3E Sorcerer no longer has a real purpose. That is, a 3E Sorcerer is already pretty close to a 4E Wizard, so why even bring him over?
In the Races and Classes preview, they talked about having to give the Sorcerer a new schtick, so to speak, and suggested it would be along the lines of "wild, uncontrolled power". The big example was a Sorcerer using a fire attack of some kind might also exude some kind of fire shield for a few rounds afterwards, because he can barely control his magic. So Primal kinda seems like maybe it could fit.
And since I assume a Power Source really needs at least three classes, Primal needs at least a little more than the Druid and Barbarian!
Cheers! :)
Well then, given that the Druid will be a hyrbid, the question is what kind of hyrbid?... Striker/Leader is my bet.
That's be my guess. I'm pretty sure it will be classified as being primarily one or the other, though.
they probably will do the Psionic power source along with the Primal power source in the PHB2 then.
I believe that was the goal. However, I also read a WOTC designer somewhere write that they couldn't get all their arcane/divine/martial material into the PHB1, so some of that was going to end up in the PHB2.
I'm guessing that means the bard, but there may be more of that that they need to drop in to the PHB2.
With that in mind, I would say your predicitions are pretty good.
The Psion Psionic Controller
Mindblade Psionic Striker
Psychic Warrior Psionic Defender
all make a lot of sense, and the
Bard Arcane Leader is almost a given at this point since they did so much work on them already.The two obvious Primal classes are
Druid Primal Hybrid (Striker/Leader)
Barbarian Primal (Defender i bet, or possibly Defender/Striker.)but the Sorceror as a Primal Striker? Could be.
Has anybody seen anything about them swithcing the Sorceror to a Primal power source over Arcane?
I don't think it's been said, but it seems awfully likely. An arcane sorcerer would probably look too much like the wizard.
I think those guesses are pretty good, but...
I am pretty sure that the final class will probably be Monk. It is one of the Core 3.5 classes which has been left out of the PHB1, and whatever role they make it, it'll be in the PHB2 I bet.
...I'm betting the Monk will be in PHB3, which I'd guess would cover Ki and Shadow.
Can you tell I'm bored today?
Actually, you don't sound bored at all.
Buck up, little camper! The internets are all about speculating wildly on subjects about which we have no particularly reliable knowledge!
Well then, given that the Druid will be a hyrbid, the question is what kind of hyrbid?... Striker/Leader is my bet.That's be my guess. I'm pretty sure it will be classified as being primarily one or the other, though.
Quite likely. They are probably going to go that way for several classes in fact, give people the iconic roles and thenseveral with a bit of flavoring from other roles.
they probably will do the Psionic power source along with the Primal power source in the PHB2 then.
I believe that was the goal. However, I also read a WOTC designer somewhere write that they couldn't get all their arcane/divine/martial material into the PHB1, so some of that was going to end up in the PHB2.I'm guessing that means the bard, but there may be more of that that they need to drop in to the PHB2.
I would bet money the Bard is gonna be a arcane leader in the PHB2.
but the Sorceror as a Primal Striker? Could be. Has anybody seen anything about them swithcing the Sorceror to a Primal power source over Arcane?I don't think it's been said, but it seems awfully likely. An arcane sorcerer would probably look too much like the wizard.
I think those guesses are pretty good, but...
...I'm betting the Monk will be in PHB3, which I'd guess would cover Ki and Shadow.
Now there's something I hadn't considered, Ki as a power source.
You could use Ki as the basis for
a Samurai Ki Defender,
a Shugenja Ki controler, with a bit of leader,
a Monk striker or controler,
and a Ninja Ki striker.
I think the Wu jen would make a much better Primal power source class though.
I also hadn't considered Shadow as a power source, because it's so close to divine in effect, but! If they're trying to set up an Shadow/Primal confilct thing that might well work. It could play nicely off the Feywild/Shadow Plane dicotomy they set up in the cosmology, thus piting the Fae against the Undead and shadow creatures. A very neat idea I have in one of my homebrew worlds, and it would be cool to see it cross over to core.
Can you tell I'm bored today?Actually, you don't sound bored at all.
Buck up, little camper! The internets are all about speculating wildly on subjects about which we have no particularly reliable knowledge!
Oh, I'm not bored by the discussion, not at all, but by work. Thus, my many posts on the sly today.
You are right, the Scout's original concept was much to close to what the ranger does now. That's why I put them into the control slot, because I envisioned them working very differently in 4E then they do now. The Scout's 4E concept would be to have a mobile, controling force at the back of the group, granting many more combat bonuses to the party then the ranger does, while controling the tactis of the enemy a lot more. Things like wounding shots that reduce movement, or coordinated movement of party members, that sort of thing. This would be at the expense of the sheer damage potentials of the ranger, and they would lack the close combat skills available to the ranger.
One who gives bonuses to the party is a leader, not a controller, who primarily affect the battlefield for the enemies.
It's hard to imagin a controller who doesn't rely on long range attacks. So, if the scout is also an archer, then it will be difficult to make it really different from the ranger. I guess they won't have so many creativity left after inventing zillions of archery powers for the ranger.
I don't think a non-magical controller is impossible, but I doubt it will be named "scout".
Which will be I fear the fate of the Sorcerrer. Yes, I know people like them a lot, they were a great addition to 3.5, but they have got to have a significalty different flavor from the wizard to be included.
That is why I also think the Illusionist and Necormancer won't be joining the ranks of full classes. They might instead make a debut as paragon paths for the wizard. In fact, we could see all the school of magic resurface in that form somewhere down the line.
World & Monsters mentioned that Shadow (from the Shadowfell) will be a power sorce. Designers said that Illusionists/Necromancers will likely to be core classes, and I think the shadow power source suits them nicely. For sorcerers, they are likely to appear on PHB2 according to EnWorld. I can find relevant links for you, but not now.
For PHB II I predict psionics, for at least two or three classes, possibly four. Don't forget Eberron is released next year, meaning they'll want many of the things important for Eberron to be released as well. I also expect Druids, and possibly Barbarians and Sorcerors (from the Primal source?). So lets say "My PHB II predictions:
Psion Psionic Controller
Mindblade Psionic Striker
Psychic Warrior Psionic Defender
Ardent Psionic Leader (who knows what, or if, the Psionic Leader will be?)
Druid Primal Hybrid (which two? Defender/Striker? Controller/Defender?)
Barbarian Primal ?? (Striker? Defender? Hybrid again?)
Sorceror Primal ?? (Striker? Controller?)
Bard Arcane LeaderJust my thoughts though, Cheers! :)
Hmm, yeah, psionics and Eberron stuff making into PHB2 is a good possibility. But I think EbCS will have at least one race/class. I don't think we will have a class named "psychic warrior" because... this name is so "ble"... But "mindblade" or "soulknife" sound cool!
So, considering psionics/Eberron, my guesses for PHB2 classes will be:
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Druid - Primal Hybrid
Bard - Arcane Leader
Sorcerer - Primal Controller
Psion - Psionic Controller
Mindblade - Psionic Defender
Illusionist - Shadow Controller
Necromancer - Shadow Hybrid
Races:
Orc (Barbarian)
Kobold (Sorcerer)
Kalashtar (Mindblade)
Gnome (Bard)
Shadar-kai (Necromancer)
Shifter (Druid)
Changeling (Illusionist)
Thri-kreen (Psion)
Eberron: will feature Warforged as race and Artificer as class! Don't ask me the role of an Artificer.
Monks: will appear in some Oriental Adventures module, or perhaps on PHB3?
It's funny the things you find when you aren't looking for them!
Here is an interview from the DnD XP that touches on a few issues, but of importance to this thread, confirms that the PHB II is mostly Psionic and Primal, with a dash of leftovers from PHB I.
Also, here. is the Druid post I mentioned. Hope you enjoy!
Cheers! :)
I do think Shadow will show up eventually, with Necromancers, Illusionists, and maybe Hexblades or Shadowdancers (or both? or neither?) included in there, but probably not until PHB III or later. A Ki source that features all the Oriental classes might be one way to do it ... maybe Ancestor instead of Ki? I dunno.
There was a designer who said they have 8 power sources in mind for 4E in total, and that while they might eventually come out with classes who don't use one of those 8 power sources, those classes will generally be outliers without any company. We know Martial, Arcane, and Divine, and Psionic, Primal, and Shadow have all also been mentioned. More than anything, I think the big question is ... what are the other two?
Cheers! :)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080416a
Discuss.
Personally, not having Sorcerers really chaps my hide.
Hmm...I personally think a lack of druids hurts the most, followed by bards. Those are both pretty clear conceptual niches. Certainly they can be modeled with other classes with varying degress of success, but I think they warrant their own class. Sorcerers, on the other hand, never had a clear conceptual niche distinct from the wizard...rather their existence seemed to be the result solely of changes in the underlying mechanics.
In a more general sense, I am disturbed by what appears to be a less-complete set of core books.
World & Monsters mentioned that Shadow (from the Shadowfell) will be a power sorce. Designers said that Illusionists/Necromancers will likely to be core classes, and I think the shadow power source suits them nicely. For sorcerers, they are likely to appear on PHB2 according to EnWorld. I can find relevant links for you, but not...
Reeeealy now? That'll teach me not to read all of a book.
So, with Primal probably being associated with the Feywild, it would make a lot of sense for Shadow and the Shadowfell to be a power source too.
With Shadow as a power source, you are right, Necromancer is pretty much guarenteed at some point as a class, and you're right Illusionist make sense too. I'm not particularly happy with that idea, Necromancy and Illusion have always been part of being a wizard, and while i don't mind the structured classes of magic going away, you would have to give them some new, and very different, powers fromt the wizard for it to work. But it could work, if you based them off the shadow power source.
And, if we assume that Shadow is included as a power source in the PHB2 then your guesses for classes are probalby the very best guesses, and they are all well based upon things the designers have said. (Unfair of you to use fact against my rampant speculations.)
So, considering psionics/Eberron, my guesses for PHB2 classes will be:[Snipped because they are probably right and I need the space]
Races:
Orc (Barbarian)
Kobold (Sorcerer)
Kalashtar (Mindblade)
Gnome (Bard)
Shadar-kai (Necromancer)
Shifter (Druid)
Changeling (Illusionist)
Thri-kreen (Psion)Eberron: will feature Warforged as race and Artificer as class! Don't ask me the role of an Artificer.
I would bet that like the Forgotten realms book having a class (The sword mage, an arcane defender) Ebberon will have the Artificer in it's own main book. As for what the devil it would be, I have no clue. You could in fact make it any role, and i would bet that if any class is without a power source, it's the Artificer.
Anyway, since we are workign on the idea that the PHB2 will have everythign they need for Ebberonm, your guesses are probaly very close. I don't know if they would reprint the the Thri-kreen however. They, along with the gnome, are both getting statted up in the first Monster Manual.
While I think the gnome is popular enough to get a fuller treatment in the PHB2, I would replace the Thri-kreen with the Aasimar on your list (because they are not getting statted in the MM), and trust that the Ebberon rule book would do a fuller detailing of the Ebberon specific races like the Warforged (also in the MM) and the Thri-kreen.
Monks: will appear in some Oriental Adventures module, or perhaps on PHB3?
If they include Shadow included with Primal and Psionic as the PHB2 power sources, then I'm betting you're right, and the Monk, along with the Ki power source, would get pushed to book 3.
There was a designer who said they have 8 power sources in mind for 4E in total, and that while they might eventually come out with classes who don't use one of those 8 power sources, those classes will generally be outliers without any company. We know Martial, Arcane, and Divine, and Psionic, Primal, and Shadow have all also been mentioned. More than anything, I think the big question is ... what are the other two?Cheers! :)
Well! If Eight is the magic number, I think we have a pretty good idea then.
It makes sense to have a power sources based around the body, mind, and soul theory of human nature. That's quite classical.
Martial - The Power of the Body, tactical training based.
Psionic - The Power of the Mind, so purely mental power based.
Ki - The Power of the Soul, based upon enlightenment and possibly spirit ancestors too.
Godly power verse earthly power:
Divine - The Power of the gods, and often radiant based.
Arcane - The Power of the elements, drawn from the elemental chaos.
And Life vs. Death:
Primal - The Power of the Feywild, or Life. Dreams and Nature based.
Shadow - The Power of the Shadowfell, or Death and corruption of life. Illusion and necromatic based.
Now we're down to asking what the eight one would be.
As for classes which lack a power source, I would say something like Ebberon's Artificer makes sense for that concept.
Hmm...I personally think a lack of druids hurts the most, followed by bards. Those are both pretty clear conceptual niches.
Indeed, I think everyone agrees. They are the classes missed most form the PHB.
In a more general sense, I am disturbed by what appears to be a less-complete set of core books.
I think they got themselves into a bit of bind when it came to space.
By expanding the role of races, the level range to 30, and coming up with a bunch of well thought out power sources, they basicly ran into a wall when it came to space in the book.
They've said that each class takes up a significant amount of space, much more so then they ever did in third edition, and i think at some point they had to decide between limiting the power choices available to the classes, or spliting them into several books.
I wish they would bring the PHB2 out sooner then next year, but I'm kind of glad they decided to trim the number of classes to make the classes which remained better.
I'm gonna miss the druid though.
Hmm...I personally think a lack of druids hurts the most, followed by bards. Those are both pretty clear conceptual niches.
Indeed, I think everyone agrees. They are the classes missed most form the PHB.
THere all so the two classes that need alot of work (Bard for being so weak and Druid for well being the Druid).
It was said by Dave Noonan that the druid will fill a more "hybrid" role.
And in case you cant see the blog post, here is the important part:
So what’s the druid look like right now? Some tidbits:
• Call his role “hybrid.” But don’t assume that he can cover all roles. Just a couple of ‘em.
• If you like what the 3.5 Player’s Handbook II did to the 3.5 druid, then you’ll probably like this guy, too.
• He doesn’t do much with the classical Greek elements (air/fire/earth/wat er), but he’s got a lot of weather-related magic. Again, that’s the direction we were taking the class in latter-day 3.5 products.
• Not a lot of animal summoning. Plenty of wild shape.
And what’s in my druid file? The class description, of course, and all the powers (eighty of ‘em at this point, give or take). Plus there are some druid (and druid-friendly) feats, four paragon paths, an epic destiny (available to those who aren’t druids, too), and some rituals. Oh, and some druid-friendly magic items.
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Druid - Primal Hybrid
Bard - Arcane Leader
Sorcerer - Primal Controller
Psion - Psionic Controller
Mindblade - Psionic Defender
Illusionist - Shadow Controller
Necromancer - Shadow Hybrid
There's a nugget in today's WOTC preview of the warlord:
"Very early on in 4th Edition design, our work on character roles led us to the idea that any character serving as the party’s “cleric”—whether a bard, shaman, warlord, or whatever — needed to be as good at that job as the cleric"
So I guess we might expect the Primal source to include:
Shaman - Primal Leader
Druid - Primal Striker(/Leader hybrid)
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Sorcerer - Primal Controller(/Striker hybrid)
I find that really cool.
My Only problem with the Mulitple PHBs, DMg, MM thingy.. Is if say they release the PHB II, and it has my faovrite classes *i.e. bard and druid* but they are not covered under the OGL, so 3rd party publishers can not use them...
Well, you are right this would be a serious problem if they kept the PHB2 and onward closed to the GSL.
However! That's not likely to happen, I think, because they released psionic classes under the SRD. They didn't make everything in the Psionic Handbook open content, but they made a lot of it open.
So I expect that the second and third players handbooks and DMG's will have significant open content. In fact, that may be why they are doing the Handbook/Splatbook seperation, so that what appears in the Players handbook is geneally open content and the splat books are not.
So I guess we might expect the Primal source to include:
Shaman - Primal Leader
Druid - Primal Striker(/Leader hybrid)
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Sorcerer - Primal Controller(/Striker hybrid)I find that really cool.
It would indeed be rather cool. I really hope they keep the Druid as part Leader, because I would really miss the druid being able to heal. they'll be less forcused on summoning animals evidently as they talked about in another artical, but I really like the idea of the Shaman class getting a full treatment as the Primal Leader.
I once had an absolute blast playing the Shaman from Orental Adventures setting. I had a quiver full of arrow with the names of my enemy on them.
Anyway, it would be a bit of a surprise to see all four primal roles in the Players Handbook 2 because of space. They're very likely to include at least 3 psionic classes, probably the Psion, the Soulknife, and the Wilder, and the Bard. If they have any other classes they want to include, like a third divine class, the Primal classes will have to be reduced to 3, which would bump the shaman.
Teiran,
Welcome back. Bored again?
I came into work today and discovered that I have absolutely no appointments whatsoever for the day. Spring has arrived, and nobody wants to be sick any more, apparently.
I really hope they keep the Druid as part Leader, because I would really miss the druid being able to heal.
I guess that what I traditionally think of as a "Druid" will now officially be called a "Shaman." I can live with that - and fix it in my own campaigns. This 4e druid so far sounds more like a "Totem Warrior" to me. Again, I can fix that, too.
Anyway, it would be a bit of a surprise to see all four primal roles in the Players Handbook 2 because of space. They're very likely to include at least 3 psionic classes, probably the Psion, the Soulknife, and the Wilder, and the Bard. If they have any other classes they want to include, like a third divine class, the Primal classes will have to be reduced to 3, which would bump the shaman.
I'm hoping they can fit 9 classes in by giving us fewer races next time around.
Teiran,
Welcome back. Bored again?
I came into work today and discovered that I have absolutely no appointments whatsoever for the day. Spring has arrived, and nobody wants to be sick any more, apparently.
*coughs* I can neither confirm nor deny those reports.
And a docter with no appointments? That never happens. I refuse to beleive it.
I guess that what I traditionally think of as a "Druid" will now officially be called a "Shaman." I can live with that - and fix it in my own campaigns. This 4e druid so far sounds more like a "Totem Warrior" to me. Again, I can fix that, too.
I'm hoping they can fit 9 classes in by giving us fewer races next time around.
It kind of sounds like they might be splitting the traditional druid into two classes, in an attempt to balance the powers traditionally given to the druid more easily. In the past, the Druid either served as a lame cleric subsitution, or totally kicked butt and took names.
As for how many classes the next bok will include, I'm not sure. It kind of makes sense to do 8 classes in botht he PHB2, PHB3, and eventually. It would allow them to put out 8 power sources (either claimed number), and put out one role each for each power source.
Maybe they will put more classes in there, but I kind of expect them to expand the racial options just as much as they do the classes.
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I also hadn't considered Shadow as a power source, because it's so close to divine in effect, but! If they're trying to set up an Shadow/Primal confilct thing that might well work. It could play nicely off the Feywild/Shadow Plane dicotomy they set up in the cosmology, thus pitting the Fae against the Undead and shadow creatures. A very neat idea I have in one of my homebrew worlds, and it would be cool to see it cross over to core.
Well, it worked for White Wolf!
And a docter with no appointments? That never happens. I refuse to beleive it.
Well, I'm expecting two patients to come in this afternoon after school. I'm a new pediatrician at a new clinic, and we've only been open since the beginning of the year. Right now, a "busy" day for me is only 6-8 patients.
It kind of sounds like they might be splitting the traditional druid into two classes, in an attempt to balance the powers traditionally given to the druid more easily. In the past, the Druid either served as a lame cleric subsitution, or totally kicked butt and took names.
Which is good for me. I've always liked the "nature priest" role - summoning storms and the like - but found the significant combat powers of the 3e druid to be wasted on my character concepts.
*Sigh* I give up.
Thank goodness.
In the past, tieflings and dragonborn existed, but they didn't define D&D. Now they do. Playing 4e D&D without them will be like running an Eberron game without shifters or warforged. You can do it, but it won't really be Eberron.
You can play 4e without dragonborn or warlords, but it won't be 4e D&D, it would be some house-ruled variant. Not core.
I find it interesting that deviation from the core is thought of as so detrimental to the definition of each rules set or game world as to make it no longer a true and viable derivative. I also think those derivative campaigns and rules sets are what make D&D great. How sterile would it be if we all played the same game the same way?
*Sigh* I give up.Thank goodness.
I lied.
In yesterday's Ampersand column (registration required), Bill Slavicsek confirmed that you might not have to wait for a second PHB for your class, if you want to subscribe to DDI. More specifically, they will be in the Dragon part of their online offerings.
We’re even going to use Dragon to show off new classes and races before they appear in a future Player’s Handbook.
They are saying DDI will kick off with the 4e launch and will be free, then they are apparently going to offer a charter subscription rate, then go up to $15 bucks a month.
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Well, we knew for a long time that druids, sorcerers and bards won't make it.
I... I didn't know that. :( So it's...
- gnomes, druids, sorcerers, bards
+ dragonborn, tiefling, warlord, warlock
?
I'm really disappointed. Dragonborn completely fail at the concept of "core" to me. Core races should be the standard races, meaning any one of them can walk into your smallest hamlet and not really raise an eyebrow. Anything that hatches from an egg does not apply.
Plus, sorcerers and bards are some of my favorite classes.
I was super excited for 4e for it's promise of fixing what was "broken". Now I don't know what to think... other then, "Hmm, this is crappy!"
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Plus, sorcerers and bards are some of my favorite classes.
As Viktor_Von_Doom said again and again, bards and sorcerers will be in subsequent books. If you have to absolutely have them, Necromancer Games is release a supp shortly containing both as well as the gnome as a player race.
Advanced Player's Guide: Feel like your new Fourth Edition Player's Handbook doesn't have all the races and classes that you love, such as the druid, barbarian or bard? Then look no further than the Advanced Player's Guide. If it is a classic race or class and it didn't make its way into the official books, then you can find them here. Written by industry giant and 4E insider Ari Marmel! Price and release date to be determined.
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Sourcebook and TPP stuff.
I didn't think they'd never see the light of day again. :) I'm just disappointed they won't be in the books I've pre-ordered, which I didn't realize until I read the thread title.
I thought I kept up on 4e stuff pretty well, but I guess they're showcasing the stuff they have more then dwelling on what they don't. Oddly enough!
And while it's good they'll be in sourcebooks eventually, sourcebooks won't make the game for me. The core books are the foundation of 4e, and if I don't enjoy playing with them, it's doubtful I'll spend more money on it.
Paizo is doing such a great thing in offering an alternative. Personally, I wouldn't really feel I had a choice to stay with 3.5 if they weren't supporting it, because I like new books and all that. Now I'm strongly considering jumping on the 3.PF bandwagon. 3.5 has it's flaws, but it's also worked for my groups for 5 years or however long it is.
4e has no Druids, Sorcerers, or Bards.
Or soul.
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Maybe we should bring back just "Fighting Man" "Magic User" and "Cleric"! :-)
We played without Druids, Sorcerers, and Bards for years. And we were fine! Honest! :-)
Of course, there was a bit of filling up the empty spots in the class lineup with elves and dwarves and all. ;)
Yah, but I picked up the Greyhawk supplement and it had these new classes, the "Thief" and "Paladin". They are pretty cool! I wish they'd been in the original rules though. I hate having to wait and buy add-on's. ;-)
4e has no Druids, Sorcerers, or Bards.Or soul.
Not so, I've heard in addition to Tieflings and Dragonborn, people will also be able to play as James Brown. You can use "Jump back and kiss myself" as a flanking maneuver in combat.
I want to play a gnome druid in D&D4.
Or a half-orc bard.
Or a priest of Mystra.
Or a ranger, having for enemies dragonborns and tieflings...
OMG!!! it doesn't have Druids, Sorcerers or Bards?!? What about Gnomes? Does it have Gnomes????
note: for the sarcasticly impared, I'm joking.
Not so, I've heard in addition to Tieflings and Dragonborn, people will also be able to play as James Brown. You can use "Jump back and kiss myself" as a flanking maneuver in combat.
LOL :)