Ok...I need some help/assistance/clarification. My group is starting the Library of Last Resort next session and will be going up against the Octopus Tree. I need someone to help clear up just what I can do with this creature.
To summarize the creatures abilities:
Advanced Octopus Tree
Melee: 8 tentacles +25 (4d6+19/19-20) and 1 bite +19 (4d8+12/19-20)
Space/Reach: 20 ft.
Feats: Improved Grab (Tentacle and Bite)
SA: Swallow Whole
Improved Grab: If the tree hits with either a tentacle or bite, it can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an AoO. If it wins, it establishes a hold and automatically deals bite damage on any succeeding rounds during which it maintains it hold.
Swallow Whole: The tree can attempt to swallow a Large or Smaller foe it successfully grapples with it's bite attack. Once inside, the opponent takes 3d6+14 bludgeoning damage and 2d6 acid damage per round.
The PC party is made up of 5 PCs and 1 cohort.
Ok...so what can I do with this guy in 1 round?
Can he...
1. attempt to grapple all 6 party members?
2. attempt to grapple 5 party members and beat on the remaining party member with it's 4 remaining attacks?
3. grapple all 6 party members and swallow one of them? Or does the swallow happen the next round?
4. Would the swallow whole work like this?
- Attack with bite (doing 4d8+12)
- Establish Grapple
- Swallow Whole (doing 3d6+14 and 2d6)
5.If he can grapple all 6, can it automatically do bite damage to all grappled opponents the next round, or just one?
6. Can it do it's automatic bite damage if it is grappling or attempting to grapple with it's mouth?
7. Can it do it's automatic bite damage if it is attacking with it's mouth, or is that considered it's attack?
If there are any penalties associated with doing any of the above (assuming that it can do them), please let me know...
Thanks!
My interpretation:
1. If he is not currently grappling anyone, have him do one attack at a time. If you hit and want to try to grapple multiple opponents have it take a -20 on the grapple attempt. Then it can act normally with it's other limbs and does not count as grappled itself (isn't flat-footed, still threatens, etc...). If you don't take the -20 it's turn essentially ends with the first person it successfully grapples (if it fails it can keep making attacks.
2. Only if it takes the -20 on all grapple checks.
3. The round after it grapples an opponent it can try to swallow one opponent. It can act with it's other limbs only if it takes a -20 on all grapple checks. If it has multiple people grappled it has to beat all of their grapple checks (with one roll) to swallow whole. Any creature still grappling the tree on the tree's subsequent turns takes automatic bite damage..
4. Round one: attack opponent with either tentacle or bite, do appropriate damage, roll grapple check to establish hold.
Round two: deal bite damage, roll grapple check to swallow whole, deal gizzard damage.
5. All opponents grappled take bite damage at the start of it's turn.
6. Yes, it deals bite damage even if grappling with it's mouth.
7. It deals bite damage to grappled foes and if it takes a -20 on grapple checks for the round it can still attack with it's mouth as long as it's not trying to grapple with it.
Can you tell me where I can find the relevant information on the -20 on grapple checks to allow the creature to continue attacking with it's other limbs? I know when I try this, the player's are going to be up in arms (pun not intended...) about this ruling.
How this plays out will depend on how the party approaches the tree. If only one of them approaches within range, I will pity that player. If the Octopus Tree hits with all of it's attacks, it does an average of 308 points of damage. We have a house rule that allows that death does not occur until the end of the current round. So if someone can get a heal spell off, the character can be brought back. The bad thing for the party is that the Octopus Tree only has a +0 initiative, so there is a good chance that he will go last.
If enough players approach, I will spread the love a little and attampt to grapple them all. Even with the -25, its grapple is still +25. Any left over attacks will go the Vow of Poverty monk who cannot be grappled.
I still can't believe that this thing is only a CR 16. I guess maybe the low movement might account for that.
I don't know where to find it in the SRD, but if you have a Monster Manual, it's on p.310. Check the second paragraph under Improved Grab.
I don't know where to find it in the SRD, but if you have a Monster Manual, it's on p.310. Check the second paragraph under Improved Grab.
Same place in the SRD - its under Improved Grab. It would seem that this is an ability that one receives not becuase they are in a grapple but because they have the Improved Grab ability.
Thanks All!
After all of that, my group canceled on me! I promised dire consequences for canceling at the last minute, so I may forgo the grappling for the first PC who wanders into range of the Octopus Tree. With it's attack bonus of +25 for tentacles and +19 for bite, it has a good chance to hit all 9 times. This means an average of 308 points of damage. Someone is going to die!
Uh...I'm not sure that this is an entirely mature way to handle a game cancellation. I hope your just blowing off some steam.
Uh...I'm not sure that this is an entirely mature way to handle a game cancellation. I hope your just blowing off some steam.
lol...yeah...I am actually quite laid back...put it this way...we are starting the Library of Last Resort and all of the PCs are the originals from day one and I think we have only had 1-2 PC deaths!
The Age of Worms is my first experience with an extended campaign, and my background as a player has made me very timid when it comes to TPK...I have fudged rolls before to avoid either a TPK or to avoid the death of a particular PC that would ultimately result in a TPK (i.e. the death of a sorcerer would mean the party would have no way to get out of the location they were in).
On the other hand, I don't want to make it a cake walk and bore my players. That is one of the reasons one of my players helped me out by reworking his cleric to make him core only. His previous build and use of spells/feats from all the different splat books made him (and the party via spells) a power house that would run rampant through all I threw at them. A QUickened, Maximized Bolt of GLory (no longer used) ruined many a well planned encounter! :)
That being said, my statement that "Someone will die!" is still probably true. There is not one person in the party who will be able to withstand a full attack from the Octopus Tree. I have noted many a campaign death from this creature, but I am still surprised that there were not more.
Uh...I'm not sure that this is an entirely mature way to handle a game cancellation. I hope your just blowing off some steam.lol...yeah...I am actually quite laid back...put it this way...we are starting the Library of Last Resort and all of the PCs are the originals from day one and I think we have only had 1-2 PC deaths!
The Age of Worms is my first experience with an extended campaign, and my background as a player has made me very timid when it comes to TPK...I have fudged rolls before to avoid either a TPK or to avoid the death of a particular PC that would ultimately result in a TPK (i.e. the death of a sorcerer would mean the party would have no way to get out of the location they were in).
On the other hand, I don't want to make it a cake walk and bore my players. That is one of the reasons one of my players helped me out by reworking his cleric to make him core only. His previous build and use of spells/feats from all the different splat books made him (and the party via spells) a power house that would run rampant through all I threw at them. A QUickened, Maximized Bolt of GLory (no longer used) ruined many a well planned encounter! :)
That being said, my statement that "Someone will die!" is still probably true. There is not one person in the party who will be able to withstand a full attack from the Octopus Tree. I have noted many a campaign death from this creature, but I am still surprised that there were not more.
I got nothing against killing players - its killing them for out of game reasons that I consider a no-no. Certainly should I run AoWs I would expect to take down many a player.
Especially since AoWs is kind of geared that way. Its sort of one death trap dungeon after another. Its very much the optimum player killing campaign - the PCs face endless very difficult challenges but their not really PC story related challenges. You have a TPK in Savage Tide and you have plot problems - here things should still run pretty smoothly.
I guess what I'm saying is if you have any leaning toward 'Killer DM' this AP is the place to let those aspects of your DMing blossom - the adventures will support and reward that style of play in a way that Rise of the Runelords or Savage Tide will not.
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