2E Morale

[ArchLich]

So what would be a good way to simulate 2E Morale system in 3E?
Or at least make a good guideline for a creatures Morale?
(DM fiat already being understood as the option.)

[Heathansson]

Maybe a wil save?

[ArchLich]

Heathansson wrote:

Maybe a wil save?

I'm not sure what Mr. Wheaton has to do with morale but please expand and continue.

[Arctaris]

Maybe use a variant of the Intimidate skill? Perhaps the monsters would have to make a check as if to resist fear from the Intimidate skill at a DC equal to 10+the party level+the number of foes killed in that encounter. The save bonus could be equal to the highest wisdom modifier in the monster's group+the number of remaining monsters.

[ArchLich]

Arctaris wrote:

Maybe use a variant of the Intimidate skill? Perhaps the monsters would have to make a check as if to resist fear from the Intimidate skill at a DC equal to 10+the party level+the number of foes killed in that encounter. The save bonus could be equal to the highest wisdom modifier in the monster's group+the number of remaining monsters.

That is actually a good bases. How does this sound?

Will based save vs Fear effect.

DC = 10 + # of Attackers (PCs) + # of creatures killed (monsters)

Modifiers (to the DC):

-2 if a PC has been downed or is seriously injured
-2 if the creatures are especially motivated (master will kill them if they flee, they have no means of escape, they hate the PC's, etc)
+2 if they are especially not motivated to continue fighting
+2 if they are at 50% hp or lower

Example: 4 PC's are attacking 2 ogres and 4 goblins (or vice versa). They PC's kill two goblins and seriously injury one ogre. The party mage is unconscious from a lucking goblin javelin.

Morale check for ogre: Will save vs. DC 14 (10 + 4 + 2 - 2 {PC down})
Morale check for goblin: Will save vs. DC 16 (10 + 4 + 2 - 2 {PC down} + 2 {ogres will kill them if they run})

[GregH]

ArchLich wrote:

That is actually a good bases. How does this sound?

Will based save vs Fear effect.

DC = 10 + # of Attackers (PCs) + # of creatures killed (monsters)

This is a good idea, but at the risk of getting too complicated, how about adding the following to the DC:

+ (AvgPtyLevel - CR) (so a higher level party will intimidate a lower CR monster more)

Also, instead of "+ number or creatures killed" maybe make it:

+(5* % of monsters killed)

You can use rough numbers to give the value anything from 1 to 4 (5 would mean they're all dead, and who needs a roll then?).

Too complicated?

I had thought that there could be some synergy with an Intimidate roll, but that would be even more complicated than before.

Greg

[ArchLich]

GregH wrote:

This is a good idea, but at the risk of getting too complicated, how about adding the following to the DC:

+ (AvgPtyLevel - CR) (so a higher level party will intimidate a lower CR monster more)

Greg

Maybe just a base +2/-2 modifier depending whether the party or the monsters are higher level/CR?

[Sebastian]

Given that 3e also has various levels of fear (e.g. shaken), you could also base the level of fear on the margin by which the save is missed.

[GregH]

ArchLich wrote:

GregH wrote:

This is a good idea, but at the risk of getting too complicated, how about adding the following to the DC:

+ (AvgPtyLevel - CR) (so a higher level party will intimidate a lower CR monster more)

Greg

Maybe just a base +2/-2 modifier depending whether the party or the monsters are higher level/CR?

Sure, that might work.

Sebastian wrote:

Given that 3e also has various levels of fear (e.g. shaken), you could also base the level of fear on the margin by which the save is missed.

I guess that'd be a multiple of 5, that seems to be the standard for missed checks of this nature.

Greg

[d13]

I can't remember the exact criteria for morale rolls in 2E, but when exactly do you make the roll? I seem to remember that you would have to make a roll if the PCs had killed 50% of the creatures. Were there a couple of other set times for morale rolls? If you are trying to come up with a new mechanic you might need to take these set rolls into account.

Whatever you decide, however, you should probably make it as easy as possible to calculate on the fly. I liked your will save idea.

ArchLich wrote:

Will based save vs Fear effect.

DC = 10 + # of Attackers (PCs) + # of creatures killed (monsters)

Modifiers (to the DC):

-2 if a PC has been downed or is seriously injured
-2 if the creatures are especially motivated (master will kill them if they flee, they have no means of escape, they hate the PC's, etc)
+2 if they are especially not motivated to continue fighting
+2 if they are at 50% hp or lower

Simple is good.

Combat can get bogged down in extra rolls as it is. . .