Slow Shadow's Attach Ability

[GregH]

Is the slow shadow's attach ability supposed to be adjudicated like a grapple? That is, if it attaches, does it move into the opponent's square? Do you resolve all actions like resolving a grapple? Obviously someone can't free themselves from an attachment unless the prescribed method is used (that's clearly stated), but the rest seems a little ad hoc. What if the attached PC tries to move? Can they? Does the slow shadow move with them?

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

[GregH]

Anyone?

[infomatic]

GregH wrote:

Anyone?

I just ran this encounter and had the same problems. It doesn't seem to be intended as a grapple -- it's an auto-attach with no way of getting loose have Haste.

Which isn't a very good deal for the Slow Shadow, by the way, which specifically stays tethered to the PC and can't attack anybody else. So basically everybody else whales on the poor thing until it dies and lets go.

My crew stomped all over these -- Warmage cast Mass Fire Shield and suddenly the Slow Shadows were hurting themselves more than the PCs with their own attacks.

[GregH]

infomatic wrote:

I just ran this encounter and had the same problems. It doesn't seem to be intended as a grapple -- it's an auto-attach with no way of getting loose have Haste.

I agree with that.

I guess what I really want to know then, was how did you handle PC/shadow movement? Can they both move? Can neither of them? Does the shadow enter into the PC's square (a condition of maintaining a grapple)? If the PC wants to move, do you enforce an opposed grapple check? Or maybe I should have used a strength check, instead, because its incorporeal and probably not really grappling?

I've run one encounter (the advanced slow shadows on the 2nd level in the shadow room). I adjudicated that the PCs could move at will, dragging the shadows with them, until they reached the edge of the shadow fog, at which point the shadows automatically detached (the description of the room says they never leave the shadow fog). Now I don't particularly like how I adjudicated that, (and my players let me say "I screwed up, the monster shouldn't have done that - it will do things differently from now on" if it makes the game better) so I'm looking for a better way of running it when they come upon some more.

Thanks for the input,
Greg

[Infernal Osquip]

I would not run it as a grapple. I picture it more like a shadow that becomes a second skin to the attacker. So it would move with the PC - no grapples needed. It would stay attached, doing automatic damage each round, assuming it takes a full round action to do so. As stated, attacks have a 50% miss chance, with misses hitting the attached creature.
- IO

EDIT - Reading you post more carefully, I think you DM'ed it fine, although I might have ignored the part that they do not leave the room. Seems like they would want to keep eating unless forced to detached by the modes above or were killed.

[GregH]

Infernal Osquip wrote:

I would not run it as a grapple. I picture it more like a shadow that becomes a second skin to the attacker. So it would move with the PC - no grapples needed. It would stay attached, doing automatic damage each round, assuming it takes a full round action to do so. As stated, attacks have a 50% miss chance, with misses hitting the attached creature.

- IO

EDIT - Reading you post more carefully, I think you DM'ed it fine, although I might have ignored the part that they do not leave the room. Seems like they would want to keep eating unless forced to detached by the modes above or were killed.

Thanks, I think you're right (regarding the leaving of the room). And after reading the entry for incorporeal creatures in the Rules Compendium, I think the only change I would have made now, is that I would have had the attached slow shadow occupy the same space as the attached PC - not in the grapple sense, where they occupy the same square, but in the intangible sense where they would occupy the same actual physical space. It had never, ever occurred to me incorporeal creatures could occupy the same physical space as the PC. I like the idea alot and plan on using it the next time they run into them. (Plus it adds more sense to the chance of hitting the attached PC idea in the monster write-up.)

Greg

[Infernal Osquip]

GregH wrote:

I think the only change I would have made now, is that I would have had the attached slow shadow occupy the same space as the attached PC - not in the grapple sense, where they occupy the same square, but in the intangible sense where they would occupy the same actual physical space. It had never, ever occurred to me incorporeal creatures could occupy the same physical space as the PC. I like the idea alot and plan on using it the next time they run into them. (Plus it adds more sense to the chance of hitting the attached PC idea in the monster write-up.)

I like that idea too. Makes them more sinister and creepy. Thanks Greg.

- IO

[GregH]

One more thing. Was thinking about this some more, and how they move into the player's square to begin with. I was thinking that when a slow shadow attaches, it should be allowed a free move to occupy the same space as the attached character. Now, in a full attack round, for the regular slow shadows this is simply a 5' move. But in a partial attack round, where the shadow did a move first, this is normally not possible. And for the advanced slow shadows, that are large size, this could be a 10' move which is not allowed regardless of whether the shadow moved or not, if there was no move action left in its turn. So, rather than say it takes a 5' step, simply say the attachment allows the shadow to instantly move into the attached characters square (almost a "snap back" from the attachment) but treat all movement (including a 5' step) as being available to attacks of opportunity.

Sound like a good balance?

Greg