Due to some character backgrounds, I hade need of a dire-shark and a BBEG in the Crimson Fleet / Scarlet brotherhood. Here is what I came up with with the help of the wotc Char Op boards.
This was initially posted (and developed) on the wotc boards. Thanks Balthanon! But I know many of you might not go there, so I wanted to share with you guys as well.
Feel free to let me know how it might be improved. Just so you know he is designed to be a sweep the decks and run kind of monster. He will race at the ship, leap across its decks - power attacking, bull rushing and shadow striking all those in his way (and some not quite in his way.) He may do this in hybrid form, but typically he get much joy out of being in shark form.
He hates fighting on the land (or in the air), and will generally not go inland too far. If the PCs go inland he will typically just leave to come back later. If he leaves some people behind on a raid, he figures thats just more terrified souls spreading his legend.
You might note that this ties the Crimson Fleet and the Scarlet Brotherhood much closer together. This is deliberate on my part. If the PCs discover this tie, they can likely deal Hambre Kappal a serious blow, and weaken the SB a little. This will be a big win for several of the characters, so I made some stronger ties that were not initally there.
'The Maw' CR 11
Merrow 3/Were-Dire Shark 18/Monk 3 (Hybrid)
LE Large Giant (Aquatic, Shapechanger)
Init +9; Senses Darkvision 60 ft, low-light vision, scent; Listen +18, Spot +18
Languages Common, Giant, Orc
________________________________________
AC 36 (40) (-2 size, +6 (8) Dex, +7 (9) natural, +7 Wis, +1 monk, +1 Dodge, +3 Deflection), touch 19 (21), flat-footed 30 (32);
hp 374 (27 HD); DR 10/silver
Fort +30 (33), Ref +30 (32), Will +22
________________________________________
Speed 80 ft. [6 squares] or 60 ft., swim 110 ft or 140 ft.
Attacks In Base Form
Melee Unarmed Strike +27/+22/+17/+12 (3d8 + 9) or
Melee Flurry of Blows +25/+25/+25/+20/+15/+10 (3d8 + 9)
Attacks In Hybrid Form
Melee Unarmed Strike +33/+28/+23/+18 (3d8 + 15) and 2 claws +28 (2d4+15/x2) and bite +29 (3d6+15/(19-20) x2) or
Melee Flurry of Blows +34/+34/+34/+29/+24/+19 (3d8 + 15) and 2 claws +28 (2d4+15/x2) and bite +29 (3d6+15/(19-20) x2) or
2 claws +35 (2d4+15/x2) and bite +31 (3d6+15/(19-20) x2) or
bite +36 (3d6+15/(19-20) x2)
Attacks In Dire Shark Form
Melee bite +36 (3d6+15/(19-20) x2)
Space 10 or 15 ft.; Reach 10 or 5 ft.
Base Atk +18; Grp +29 (39)
Atk Options Power Attack, Flurry of Blows, Spring Attack
Special Actions Alternate form, curse of lycanthropy, lycanthropic empathy
Combat Gear Monk's Belt, +2 Shadowstrike, Brutal Surge Amulet of Mighty Fists
Equipment Ring of Jumping (+10), Ring of Deflection (+3), Monk's Belt, +2 Shadowstrike, Brutal Surge Amulet of Mighty Fists
________________________________________
Abilities Str 24 (36), Dex 22 (26), Con 22 (28), Int 12, Wis 22, Cha 16
SQ Special Qualities Curse of lycanthropy, alternate form, damage reduction 10/silver, lycanthropic empathy, Scent, Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, Improved grab, swallow whole, Keen scent
Feats
Bonus: Improved Natural Attack (bite), Toughness (5), Weapon Focus (bite), Iron Will, Flying Fish Leap, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Attack), Cleave, Skill Focus [Jump]
From Levels
Great Cleave, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Bounding Assault, Rapid Blitz, Run, Power Attack, Improved Overrun, Leap Attack, Rapid Swimming, Leadership, Epic Dodge [Epic] (only in Dire Shark Form), Epic Speed [Epic]
Skill Tricks Extreme Leap, Leaping Climber, Walk the Walls, Quick Swimmer, Speedy Ascent, Up the Hill
Skills
Jump +52 (58) (remember +4 for every 10ft move over 30)
Tumble +33 (35)
Climb +20 (22)
Spot +17
Search +17
Listen +17
Swim +25 (31)
Profession (sailor) +17
Sense Motive +17
Note: I am using variant rules where there are stat increases every even level and a feat every odd level, so if you are trying to validate the build keep that in mind.
Now for the Fluff:
Bred as part of a Brotherhood eugenics program "The Maw" was born to be a raider. Little was known of the We Jass aesthetic whose mad cross-breeding led to "the Maw's" creation. What is known, however, was that he failed a brother of the scarlet sign - some say it was the father of obediance himself.
After his creator was assassinated, "the maw" (although he was yet to be named) passed into the hand of the a Brothers of the Scarlet Brotherhood, named Hambre Kappal. Much Hambre's chagrin, "the maw" soon became a problem. For however, he also turned out to be, (for an ogre at least) smart and a born leader. Looking to turn this asset into a liability, Hambre began to train "the maw" in the ways of Brotherhood combat. His initial hope was that he would have a very effective bodyguard. "The maw", bred for blind obedience, was amazingly well suited to the training.
As time went on Hambre rose within the Brotherhod ranks. He played a key part in the planning of assault on the Hold of the Sea Princes. Some say Hambre was best suited to come up with the plan to use the savage races - after all he consorted with them daily - look at his body guard. And soon Hambre saw that "the maw" was holding him back politically. That is why, when Hambre was tasked with creating a method of taking over Sasserine by projecting naval power he decided to send his favored bodyguard away.
The plan was to fund a band of Privateers. Such a band of chaotic misfits could and would be kept at arms length, but still serve at the Brotherhood's (and Hambre's) whim. Although technically a Vitiates, or "flawed," and unable to rise any further in the brotherhood itself, "the maw" had found a comfortable niche, where he can flourish. Given his blind obedience to the Brotherhood, he would never question his status. But as part of the Crimson Fleet - a band of shadowy privateers he could rise in status that befitted his power. But he had yet to realize just how much power he had.
On a routine raid "the maw" jumped into the water - the better to raid the other ship. Perhaps it was the rush of the salt water combined with the blood, but once submerged "the maw" found out another secret of his breeding. He was a true were dire shark. With that began his carrer of terror. And when reports came back from Sasserine on that first attack, "the maw" also gained a name.
Soon tales flew around of the great dire-shark that raided pirates and merchants alike - anyone who tried to run the terrible blockade surrounding the city. It was not long before "the maw" stood at the head of the Crimson Fleet, operating at Hambre's command to control the seas surrounding the Almedio Jungle.
OK. There he is. Enjoy all! And thanks for everyone's help.
Yeah - I have wondered about that. I am not sure where to put it tho - 13 or so? Anyway, it is going to go up against the group right before the end of ToD, and will likely only be testing them. So they will be lvl 11 (or so) and there are 6 of them. So they are likely to best it (but not kill it I hope) I can get a better feel on the CR after that.
Unless the CR is way out of wack. In which case, I can note that then have him lose interest and just leave them with their boots full of liquid fear. Maybe have him stand on deck and have a little soliloquy describing how he and his men are coming for them and the good people of Farshore, then bugger off. Perhaps he might use intimidate and overrun to stroll through them knocking them aside like ten-pins.....
That it make it so very sweet when they do get to lay the smackdown.
I would rate it considerably higher than CR 11.... say around CR 15 - 17 minimum.
Epic Feats, saves of +22 +30 (which basically means he makes every save thrown at him at level 11.... ). Perhaps try comparing the stats to some of the CR17 critter in SoS and ItM ? This guy looking stronger ? I mean, the Greater Lemorian Golems at Divided Ire are CR 17... with 60% of the HP, lesser AC (like 10 points) , less mobility, lesser saves, similar DR... I am pretty sure this guy will beat up any opposition in ItM in a staright one on one fight. Cold Captain Wythers, the orlath, the Seventh the advanced Demon inthe SoS treasury... against this ? In a maritime environment ? And these guys are CR 17- 19 !
Loads of attacks, at levels almost guaranteed to hit twice or more on a full attack on even the most defensively minded characters... for an average of 29 points/hit (and the option to Stun) ... With massive mobility, being nigh impossible to hit... I mean, how many characters at level 11 have total attack boni in excess of +20 - +22 ? which means a whopping 18 to hit him at all ? Without even a shred of Combat Expertise ?
Epic feats (on a CR-11, right )... massively enhanced stats... I mean, Wis 24 on a lycanthrope ? Sounds resaonable ? not to me....
I am also pretty sure that a monk's speed bonus stacks only with his primary movement mode, not that of an alternate form, but that is details....
And where the hec.. ahem where does the "Were Dire Shark"-template come from anyway ?
Looks like premeditated murder to me. But then I am of the role-playing school, this looks like the typical offa... ahem stuff from the WotC "optimization" board. YMMV
PS as for the background story - If the Scarlet Brotherhood wanted Sasserine, they would simply dump this guy on the arrivals dock and step back to watch the carnage....
I would rate it considerably higher than CR 11.... say around CR 15 - 17 minimum.
Epic Feats, saves of +22 +30 (which basically means he makes every save thrown at him at level 11.... ). Perhaps try comparing the stats to some of the CR17 critter in SoS and ItM ? This guy looking stronger ? I mean, the Greater Lemorian Golems at Divided Ire are CR 17... with 60% of the HP, lesser AC (like 10 points) , less mobility, lesser saves, similar DR... I am pretty sure this guy will beat up any opposition in ItM in a straight one on one fight. Cold Captain Wythers, the orlath, the Seventh the advanced Demon in the SoS treasury... against this ? In a maritime environment ? And these guys are CR 17- 19 !Loads of attacks, at levels almost guaranteed to hit twice or more on a full attack on even the most defensively minded characters... for an average of 29 points/hit (and the option to Stun) ... With massive mobility, being nigh impossible to hit... I mean, how many characters at level 11 have total attack boni in excess of +20 - +22 ? which means a whopping 18 to hit him at all ? Without even a shred of Combat Expertise ?
OK, point taken already.....
Epic feats (on a CR-11, right )... massively enhanced stats... I mean, Wis 24 on a lycanthrope ? Sounds resaonable ? not to me....
Despite the bonus being listed in the template, despite the stat increases available for its hit dice. Oh wait - you didn't read that, did you. What are the rules when you can set about mocking someone? No good at all says vikingson, our stalwart role playing icon.
I am also pretty sure that a monk's speed bonus stacks only with his primary movement mode, not that of an alternate form, but that is details....
Fair enough, if that is the case. But I can't find anything to back up that assumption in the SRD or the errata. Good thing that won't enter into this build anyway until he gains a couple of Monk levels. But whatever, man - those jerks on the char op boards, reading the class before the dump on it and stuff.
And where the hec.. ahem where does the "Were Dire Shark"-template come from anyway ?
Ummm that hard to get source book known as the Monster Manual. Also that impossible to search thing know as the SRD.
Looks like premeditated murder to me. But then I am of the role-playing school, this looks like the typical offa... ahem stuff from the WotC "optimization" board. YMMV
Murder, maybe so. I am getting that impression. Premeditated. Well aren't we quick to make assumptions about folks - even ones based without evidence. Ever considered a career in rendition for the CIA?
PS as for the background story - If the Scarlet Brotherhood wanted Sasserine, they would simply dump this guy on the arrivals dock and step back to watch the carnage....
Couldn't resist one last dig could ya.
Well good thing Captain Role Player was here! He saved the day! Yay, for the best D&D player we all know!
I mean really, I posted here to get advice. I am very new to this BBEG creation thing, and I knew I had the potential to screw it up. I welcome structured critisim that includes a reading (and understanding) of the rules.
Admittedly, small bits of what you had to offer was useful; albeit not very original. But then you dive into this weird place where you think its OK to call something poop, you screw the rules up, and call any one who optimizes (which by the way this is NOT by any stretch of the imagination - trust me, you should have seen the nastiness that was suggested) are incapable of role-playing.
Creating BBEG (like pricing magic items) is an art and a science. I am not so skilled at the art part of it, but I can run the numbers. So I will take what constructive advice I can from your post, and toss the rest aside as posturing.
Got anything useful to add? Got any suggestions on a build that I can use that won't decimate the party, as this is NOT my goal (despite your ill-informed claims to the contrary)?
Now that ugliness aside.
I do not wish to destroy the party, and I would like them to meet this guy in their mid career, as several PCs have based their backgrounds around this guy. I am betting that making the base fella human, then making him a were-shark of the large variety will tone him down considerably. This gives him the added benefit of more monk levels, which are easier to estimate (for me at least) their CR.
I also think it will lower the hit dice so that there will be no epic feats (at least until they get back up in levels)
I still really want something that can jump over the deck and pick off a party member. And I love the mobility aspect.
OK back to the drawing board........
@JwT
sorry to say, if you post that monstrosity on this board and ask (!) for criticism, than be good enough to take a hint, or rather accept the criticism, even if you might agree with the tone. You put this up here because you felt it to be appropriate for your campaign, and because you intended to throw it at your ( unexpecting ) players.
Which - IMHO - would have ended said campaign there and then, I guess to everyone's chagrin. If that was the intention.... sorry to interrupt the proceedings.
The very first thing (from my PoV) about monstrous creation is to check one's favourite "offspring" against the existing monsters of a similar rating, or the one the party is by the rules expected to face.
If it has consistently higher performance over the board than simiilar creatures... then the estimate is plain wrong. Which in this case is glaringly obvious - and I wonder how you missed that ?
And if you "custom design" a creature and give no thought at all at how characters are than meant to defeat, or even deal, with your creation, then, the question be allowed, WHAT were you thinking about ? This is a super-predator, who basically will walk over anything mortal that tries to control or confront him. How the...how is the SB even supposed to control this thing, and just why is he even working for them ? This is a "Diet-Tarrasque", but as an opponent for eleventh level characters ?
Obviously you spend/t a lot of time on WotC "optimization boards", where consistently a pretty funky understanding of the working and the purpose of the rules is shown. Basically, from where I stand, with the sole aim to "break" the rules, or at least the spirit of them anyway, usually for the express purpose of self-glorification. Your mileage of the spirit on those boards seems to differ, distinctly.
Anyway, that spirit is perhaps fine if someone cares for WWF-league matches, "roll-playing" style (which is what I aluded to when I stated me subscribing to the role-playing school of thought ) , but not for a consistent, plot-based campaign. Your BBEG is an impressive specimen of that spirit. Congrats....
But Iseriously doubt that players, after having struggled (or perhaps not) to level 11, will appreciate having their characters and the campaign wiped out "by accident", because their GM mis-estimated his personal death-beastie by half a dozen or more CRs...
I don't know about you, but I see the job of the GM as the one providing a challenging (not murderous) and interesting (as in continuous) story-arc to my players/friends - and not to grind their characters to bloody shreds - even if by accident - simply because I had "this wonderful concept" for a monster.
On the question whether I play softball DnD and am too easy on players, check the "Obituaries" thread.
On a finishing note :
I purposefully choose sarcasm in my reply a) to give the whole thing a humorous note (meant to take off some of the sting) and b) because it was the lesser of the two reactions I felt.
|
In the interests of providing some constructive criticism....
The creatures AC is too high. The point about the party's primary melee character being able to hit is at least 50% of the time is a valid one.
Gear - This creature has too much magical gear for the CR you are trying to target. Follow the NPC wealth guidlines, or for a tougher challenge, you might even give it gear based on PC wealth limits. Either way, this creature has too much.
Feats - No epic feats for creatures with CR only 10 or 11. The epic rules are wanky anyway, but having a normal party face epic mechanics is recipe for disaster.
When making a new monster, start off comparing your creation to existing creatures in the Monster Manual. This Were Dire Shark Monk would go toe to toe with a Balor and likely win. Ditto a Pit Fiend. Those are both CR 20 creatures. It would have a decent shot againt most Dragons in the CR 17-20 range. If you intend to leave it as constructed, bump its CR at least 6-8.
Finally, I would consider avoiding the Character Optimization Boards when making a new monster. The folks over at Optimization boards tend to design builds with the intention of making the most mathematically formidable things imaginable. If you want to make a CR 11 creature to challenge your players, it is better to make things using the MM as a guide then the Optimization boards as a guide.
Finally, Vikingson wasn't trying to just bash you, but the monster you have made is very much out of line with existing precedents (MM and DMG) for what monsters of that CR should be. Don't get discouraged, but you need to decide if you goal is to make a creature that challenges your party, or that your party has no hope of surviving, much less defeating.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
CR: Base 3 (Merrow- Aquatic Ogre); +5 (Lycanthrope Adj. for Base Animal with 18-HD); +3 for class levels. 3+5+3 = 11. Seems fine to me, except that he has a HUGE amount of equipment, which should adjust things as well.
Huh, that's different from what I got...
Rolling + 1
Superior Equipment + 1
3 Monk Levels + 3
Merrow + 3
Dire Shark + 9
Lycanthrope + 1
Total: CR 18
I gave a CR for the fact that, despite the fact that the SRD states that if the monster has character levels, the guy has much higher stats than the Elite array would grant. Then I gave another for his superior equipment, which grants a combat advantage. The three monk levels and the Merrow add up.
Now, I'm playing this by ear, but the Dire Shark's CR is 9, half of it's hit dice. Since the other lycanthropes have as their CR 1/2 Animal HD + Class Levels + 1 as their CR, I figured that the total CR for a vanilla Were Dire Shark would be 10.
Of course, I never actually had to do something like this, so I COULD be off...
Hiya.
Ok, the question you have to ask yourself is this. Would you let a player play this character in the campaign right now, or in a level or two? If you say "HELL NO!!!", then you obviously have a waaaaaaaaaaaay overpowered creature. If you say "Maybe...maybe...", then you might be at least in the ball park. If you say "Uh, yeah? Why not?" then, well, uh, yeah. Have fun! :)
Maybe I have been doing it wrong all this time, but wouldn't a 3rd level monk only have access to 3rd level gear. The equipment point has already been made, but as an alternative this is a change I would make. I never figured equipment based on a critter's CR (HD, SA, SQ, etc.). Only on the PC's level (in this case 3). Have I been cheating my players who want monstrous characters?
|
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
Maybe I have been doing it wrong all this time, but wouldn't a 3rd level monk only have access to 3rd level gear. The equipment point has already been made, but as an alternative this is a change I would make. I never figured equipment based on a critter's CR (HD, SA, SQ, etc.). Only on the PC's level (in this case 3). Have I been cheating my players who want monstrous characters?
I think it's based on HD plus LA plus CL.
